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clash
2017-03-09, 04:50 PM
What do people think of this as a time mage cantrip?

Accelerate
Level: Cantrip
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration (1 Round)

When you cast this spell you can choose to accelerate an ally within 30ft. On their turn they can make a single weapon attack, Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object as a bonus action.

LeonBH
2017-03-09, 05:00 PM
Too strong for a cantrip. That's a 3rd level spell you're mimicking for no cost (well, it's your action, but it's disproportionately better than Firebolt at level 1).

Add in a Concentration requirement. Perhaps disallow the attack action altogether.

Ninja_Prawn
2017-03-09, 05:09 PM
Far too powerful for a cantrip. That's basically my Action spell from here (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2016/01/chronomancy-spells.html), which I pegged at 2nd level. See the cantrips Moment to Think and Manipulate Clockwork on that page for something that's closer to the right power level.

Superstition
2017-03-09, 06:00 PM
I created a similar cantrip that moves one character to the top of the Initiative order (or right after the time mage). It was really useful as a support ability as most people do benefit from improved initiative and this let my wizard give her allies that advantage at the cost of her own action. It can even create 2 concurrent turns in some cases by moving an ally from the back of the initiative to the front.

Of course, my player eventually found better use of their actions as she leveled, but this spell was still useful for situational purposes and helped a lot in making the other players more comfortable with holding their actions and changing their initiative. In hindsight, it was actually somewhere between a cantrip and a level 1 spell, but it should be a suitable cantrip for a more difficult and combat-focused campaign.

If you have a more average group of players, consider tweaking the spell to give a +5 or +10 boost to initiative. It's enough to make a difference if the initiative rolls are far apart, but not so strong as to completely remove the need for good initiative rolls.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-09, 06:26 PM
I'm not sure why folks are saying this is such a powerful cantrip. It trades one action for one action.

A Fighter might gain two attack actions, sure, but that isn't any stronger than having two Fighters in the first place, and it comes with the caveat of the Wizard being far more fragile than a second Fighter would be.

A Rogue might get a Dash or Disengage, letting them forgo cunning actions and TWF for a second chance to Sneak Attack, but having two Rogues in the first place would also give you that second chance.

And so forth.

LeonBH
2017-03-09, 06:49 PM
GalacticAxeKick, don't forget this cantrip can be used with bonus action spells. Healing Word, Misty Step, or any Quickened spells if a Sorcerer has it, too. Heck, Quicken this and Twin it too at 3rd level for 3 people getting 3 extra actions.

Also, relative to the other cantrips in existence, this one will always be top pick. Like you said, it is like having a second Fighter/Rogue/Cleric/Paladin/what-have-you there. Except you get to pick, round by round, which "extra" person gets an action. Very good, and very versatile.

If a spell is clearly going to be chosen, then it may be too powerful for its level.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-09, 07:12 PM
GalacticAxeKick, don't forget this cantrip can be used with bonus action spells. Healing Word, Misty Step, or any Quickened spells if a Sorcerer has it, too. Heck, Quicken this and Twin it too at 3rd level for 3 people getting 3 extra actions.Any action can be used with bonus action spells. Quickening and Twinning it lets it shatter the action economy, but Quickening an Twinning anything shatters the action economy.


Also, relative to the other cantrips in existence, this one will always be top pick. Like you said, it is like having a second Fighter/Rogue/Cleric/Paladin/what-have-you there. Except you get to pick, round by round, which "extra" person gets an action. Very good, and very versatile.You get the versatility of picking which "extra" person you get each round, but not the magnitude of actually having those people
You're only pulling from one pool of spell slots. Two Clerics can do more Clericing than one Cleric twice.
You're squishier than virtually any "extra" you're gaining. If you're playing the "extra" Fighter, you're playing an "extra" fighter with terrible hit points and AC
You're covering less ground. Two Monks can rush two ways and beat two (groups of) foes. One Monk attacking twice, not so much.

I think that's a fair pro-con balance.


If a spell is clearly going to be chosen, then it may be too powerful for its level.
True! I can accept this being an over-strong cantrip or an underwhelming 1st level spell. But I think a minor nerf (such as consuming the target's reaction, short range or concentration) would be sufficient.

LeonBH
2017-03-09, 07:22 PM
I'm not saying the spell is broken by any means. Just that it is too powerful to be a cantrip. As I recommended, perhaps disallow the extra action to be an attack, and add in a Concentration requirement. Then it will sit pretty as a cantrip which some will take, others will not, depending on the build they want.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-09, 08:06 PM
I'm not saying the spell is broken by any means. Just that it is too powerful to be a cantrip. As I recommended, perhaps disallow the extra action to be an attack, and add in a Concentration requirement. Then it will sit pretty as a cantrip which some will take, others will not, depending on the build they want.Ah! That's reasonable!

My fault for not having read your first comment. In my mind I was arguing against Prawn's suggestion that this spell would be at or approaching 2nd level.

Ninja_Prawn
2017-03-10, 02:43 AM
In my mind I was arguing against Prawn's suggestion that this spell would be at or approaching 2nd level.

I stand by my version, though I'm not insisting that this one has to be 2nd level too. It might be workable at 1st, especially with the nerfs suggested above.

Given that the OP hasn't given us the exact wording and requirements I can't be sure, but my version may be slightly more powerful/complete/flexible. It also exists in an ecosystem with other chronomancy spells, which boost it via synergy.

clash
2017-03-10, 08:48 AM
Thanks for all the feedback. Edited it to require concentration and to give bonus action options instead of a free action. Please let me know if this seems more appropriate for a cantrip. If it is still too strong I could remove the attack option. I dont really want to mess with initiative as that can slow down combat.

LeonBH
2017-03-12, 12:03 AM
You made it more powerful by making it grant a bonus action. I advise you to remove the attack option regardless, and that way it feels more satisfying and alluring for some player types. It's like a free Cunning Action for non-Rogues. :)