BFRPG Cleric

[Jorgo]

I saw that the Cleric can use the Maul and the Mace, which are just as damaging as the Fighter's weapons. Is it on purpose that the Cleric has as much combat offence and defence as the Fighter, and just with marginally less choice?

[thirdkingdom]

I saw that the Cleric can use the Maul and the Mace, which are just as damaging as the Fighter's weapons. Is it on purpose that the Cleric has as much combat offence and defence as the Fighter, and just with marginally less choice?


The degree of limitation is increased when you consider the magic item tables, which are much more likely to produce weapons that fighters (and thieves) can use. Plus, those weapons (chiefly, the swords) tend to be have more powerful exceptions than the miscellaneous weapons.

Referring to the magic item chart on p. 132 . . . huh. That's curious. This is one thing that BFRPG has changed. Anyway, we can still look at the chart. Clerics have four weapons listed on the Magic Weapon Table that they can use: warhammer, mace, maul and sling bullet for a combine percentile chance of 13% -- and fighters can use these items too.

It looks like BFRPG has also opened the magic abilities to all weapons.

Let's take a look at Moldvay Basic, p. B46. A magic item has a 20% chance of being a sword and a 20% chance of being a miscellaneous weapon *or* armor. If the result is for misc. weapon/armor there is a 1 in 8 chance of getting a weapon a cleric can use (a mace, which will be +1). Six of the remaining 8 are either armor or weapons that cannot be used by clerics, while the 8th result is a cursed item. If it is a sword 7 of the 8 items are swords (the 8th is cursed) with bonuses ranging from a simple +1, a +1/+2 or 3 v. specific creature *or* a +2 sword.

Other editions/iterations include more powerful swords, as well, such as the Holy Avenger, Vorpal Blade, etc., which rarely have analogs in blunt weaponry.

EDIT: Now that I've got 1e in front of me, I see that there is a 10% initial chance of getting swords and a 14% of misc. weapons. Of the misc. weapons, however, there is only a combined 20% chance of getting a weapon usable by clerics (not sure on flail or morningstar, so I just counted maces and warhammers. If flails and morning stars are counted, it increases to a 27% chance of getting an item a cleric can use). Of that 19%, there is a 1% chance of getting the following "special" items: hammer +3 dwarven thrower (special bonuses only apply to dwarven *fighters*, though), hammer of thunderbolts (needs min. of 18/01 strength to wield, and gauntlets of ogre power/giant of girdle strength to harness the full power), mace of disruption, mace +4, sling of seeking. So, of those five special weapons, one can only be used *properly* by a dwarven fighter and another by a character with percentile strength *and* other magic items.

Looking at swords, there's a 15% chance of getting a cursed blade, a 25% chance of a sword +1, and the remaining 60% gives you either a more powerful sword with a flat bonus, a blade with a secondary bonus v. a specific monster type or a special sword such as a Frostbrand, Vorpal Blade, Sword of Dancing, etc. In addition, p.166 of the DMG makes it clear that swords, and only swords, may be intelligent, which grants the blade a minimum of one primary ability. 75% percent of all magic swords encountered are unintelligent, with no bonuses beyond what is normally rolled for. The remaining 25% are, and while they have inherent alignment restrictions and the side effect of controlling the character also possess powers such as detecting various things, spell-like abilities, slaying specific creatures, etc.

It is clear, therefore, that weapon restrictions imposed upon clerics have ramifications on their use of many magical items, and most of the magical weapons found -- assuming a random placement of items as per the DMG -- will be usable by fighters (and thieves, of course). Of these weapons, the most powerful are, in addition, largely usable by fighters (and thieves!) as well.

[Jorgo]

So at first level the only downside to Clerics v. Fighters is their d6 hit dice, which half the races are limited to anyway? okay... I'll take your word for it.

Other question, if you want to automatically augment a magic-users spellbook, how many spells would you add each level? 1? 2?

[thirdkingdom]

So at first level the only downside to Clerics v. Fighters is their d6 hit dice, which half the races are limited to anyway? okay... I'll take your word for it.

Yup, that's about it. They both have the same attack bonus at 1st. At 2nd level clerics gain the ability to cast a single 1st level spell and fighters gain an additional +1 to their attack bonus.



Other question, if you want to automatically augment a magic-users spellbook, how many spells would you add each level? 1? 2?

You mean have a character add spells to their spellbook without time/money mentioned on p. 16? One day if being taught by another magic-user, one day per spell level if studying from a scroll/spell book and 500 gp per spell level?

I often play with the assumption that first level magic-users begin with a spellbook that contains all of the 1st level spells from Core (the idea is that all 1st level wizards learn those basic spells as part of their education). I'm not sure I'd allow magic-users to gain spells afterwards automatically. The time requirement helps by forcing some down-time (which other characters will be using to heal, recruiting henchmen/mercenaries, etc.) and the gold requirement is basically just a good way to burn through the vast piles of money they'll be accumulating (magic-users typically have a need for less cash than other classes, in general).

[Jorgo]

A third question then: it says in the assassin supplement that it assassin is for humans only. However, half-orcs are able to be anything humans can be. do you have a comprehensive list of which races can be which classes? Also, you say that magic-users need less gold than other classes, but I can't discern what the other classes are spending their gold on.



EDIT: More specific question: Can Kappas be Assassins?
Can Half-Ogres be Druids?

[Yora]

The description says that half-orcs can be any class, which I assume is in reference to the standard rules. If assassin says huans only, that would override that.
For half-ogres it says fighter and cleric only, and druid isn't either of those. If the druid class doesn't mention half-ogres either, than it's not an available class.

Though all these books are suggested rules for GMs to pick from as they please. There is no reason why the restrictions couldn't be different for each specific campaign. In my game all classes are open to all races.

[thirdkingdom]

A third question then: it says in the assassin supplement that it assassin is for humans only. However, half-orcs are able to be anything humans can be. do you have a comprehensive list of which races can be which classes? Also, you say that magic-users need less gold than other classes, but I can't discern what the other classes are spending their gold on.



EDIT: More specific question: Can Kappas be Assassins?
Can Half-Ogres be Druids?

I'm not hugely familiar with BFRPG, but it's a B/X clone, so I've got some idea of how it is supposed to work. In the early editions of D&D there was an assumption -- most of the time unstated -- that the characters would gradually transition from dungeon crawling to overland adventuring to domain rulership. It looks as if BFRPG doesn't delve to deeply into this, but I would guess the underlying assumption is still there.

At higher levels fighters build a keep, clerics a temple, thieves a guildhall and magic-users a tower. Of all the classes, however, the magic-user is the one that is least partial to actual rulership, and tends to devote most of her time to spell research and magical item creation. Since she typically doesn't spend *that* much time ruling a domain she doesn't require to spend a bunch of money maintaining an army, bribing officials and judges or keeping a flock of congregants happy.

Being an OSR game, the bulk of your character's XP is going to come from treasure, which means that at certain points your character may feel extremely wealthy and wonder what to do with all their hard-earned loot! The general trajectory of gaining (and spending) wealth in D&D is as follows:

1st level: The initial delve is usually quick, with the party retreating after the magic-user burns her Sleep spell, taking as much treasure as can be carried. Usually a few hundred gp, if they're lucky. The party's expenses look something like this:

1. Upgrading armor (and weapons, sometimes). You typically want to have all your fighters/clerics in plate.
2 or 3rd. Healing. Your cleric can't heal you, so you have to pay for it from a local temple. Either that or save money and wait for natural healing.
3rd or 2nd. Recruiting henchmen. The more the merrier.

2nd-3rd level: The party has some more staying power, thanks to the cleric being able to heal, magic-users being able to cast more than one Sleep or Charm Person and the inevitable hiring of henchmen to allow the injured to be rotated out of the front line.

1. Money at this stage is likely going to be spent outfitting your new henchmen with the best equipment you can find.
2. Magical item identification. Typical B/X houserules are around 1000 gp per item, and the party should have gotten three of four in the first three levels to be IDed.

4th-8th level: By now you're focusing on spreading out and exploring the wilderness. Money is spent on wagons or boats, mercenaries, more henchmen and identifying the backlog of magic items that have no doubt accumulated. Most parties are going to be rolling through the wilderness with a small army of mercenaries, henchmen and hirelings, and it is expensive!

Note that it is at this stage that characters will sometimes begin the process of commissioning the creation of magical items, which is another huge money sink. They'll likely have a local priest or alchemist on retainer, churning out potions, and a magic-user can also be hired to scribe spell scrolls or fashion items of magical puissance.

9th level: Now we're getting into the Name levels and domain management. Fighters are going to look to build a castle and hire even more troops, clerics will want to establish a temple and attract congregants, thieves will want to build a guildhall from which to base a small army of thugs, pickpockets and spies and mages construct a tower from which they can conduct magical research.

[thirdkingdom]

Jorgo, if you're not super familiar with the oldschool style of play I would recommend giving this thread (http://www.autarch.co/forums/actual-play/maze-du-ch%C3%A2tel) on the Autarch forums a read. It's a great primer on the different phases of play: dungeon, wilderness, domain. It also provides insight into henchmen management.