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zeratul
2007-09-09, 12:12 AM
I wrote (what I hope you will think is) a better poem about all this. Less cliches, more focused, better phrasing, and all that.

Read if ya want

Life always seems so inane
But then I see you're smile again
and through this act most mundane
my mind becomes whole again

And though logic has abandoned me
I do not feel Forlorn
For through this serendipity
there's a receding of my scorn
For this worls I wished to abandon not so long ago
And as I feel it melt, I know it's you who made it so

The warmth you hold seemsinfinite as the dark december sky
and in my darker moments i often wonder why
one such as you would spend your time with one such as me
but somehow in me you still instill a sence of adequacy

a deeper feeling I have never felt than this I feel for you
Your kindness fights my inner demons keeping my mind true
my nightmares are all stilled by the life within your eyes
and all this increases as i'm by emotion hypnotized

And though logic has abandoned me
I do not feel Forlorn
For through this serendipity
there's a receding of my scorn
For this worls I wished to abandon not so long ago
And as I feel it melt, I know it's you who made it so

Brickwall
2007-09-09, 12:17 AM
...a word of warning. "Adequate" seems to hold negative connotations these days. I know you struggle for rhymes, but if you can't get it perfect, it might offend your sweetheart. It's okay, but there's nothing wrong with taking some more time to get things just right. Or just writing a new one alltogether, if you're stumped. The language has its limits.

zeratul
2007-09-09, 12:21 AM
Meh, I still use adequate without negative connotacions that's why I used it, this was more of a flowing poem, I didn't struggle for rhymes as much. Also The chances of her, or anyone of this forum seeing this, are rather small

Serpentine
2007-09-09, 01:21 AM
But life is better when we don't.
Aaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww ^_^

Jibar... your situation sound interesting. I guess... you've been warned, so have an idea of what you might be getting into, and won't have anyone to blame but yourself if you end up being crushed under her heel, but at the same time don't be afraid to form you own opinion of her.

FdL
2007-09-09, 01:52 AM
That or she has a serious medical problem, or y'know, just a plain old bad sense of humour.

I'm counting on the medical problem more, 'cause no one has a sense of humour as bad as mine, no one would laugh at all my jokes :) (hmmm...suddenly thinks about asking her to marry him :p) And in any case you can tell something by how the laughter ends with a sighing tired whimpering noise, like saying "ahhh you're so funny" :p LOL I'm picturing it right now...Aww...people are so weird...


In fact you be very worried as she may try to eat your brain...so whatever you do don't eat hers. Besides who knows what she was doing in the interior vale of Papua.

I don't usually eat brains of women I know. Unless they had a special power I was after (obscure Heroes reference/hypothesis). It's extremely impolite too and might lead to a worse fate than turning a zombie :p

The Papua joke I didn't get. It's 4 in the morning, too, so my intellectual capacity is reduced to below Homer level.


@Jibar: Well, you'll have to keep an eye on her, but well, if you're careful and go slowly you could have a try. There's always an element of chance in life, you never know anything for sure. Well, you can be careful and talk things to be sure, of course, but you have to make a decision. Good luck anyway, muffin-thingie ^^

Me giving advice again? Must mean I'm not depressed anymore. Yay ^^ Now how's DragonRider doing?

Serpentine
2007-09-09, 01:58 AM
The Papua joke I didn't get.
Wooo, something I do get! :smallbiggrin: Shall I explain? But I've forgotten the actual name of the disease...

Sir_Norbert
2007-09-09, 07:40 AM
...a word of warning. "Adequate" seems to hold negative connotations these days. I know you struggle for rhymes, but if you can't get it perfect, it might offend your sweetheart. It's okay, but there's nothing wrong with taking some more time to get things just right. Or just writing a new one alltogether, if you're stumped. The language has its limits.
"Adequate" holds negative connotations because if you call something adequate you're saying it's no better than that. The word he actually used, "adequacy", does not.

(I went back to read the poem after your post just because I was insanely curious as to what possible word "adequate" could be the best rhyme for.....)

Brickwall
2007-09-09, 10:55 AM
"Adequate" holds negative connotations because if you call something adequate you're saying it's no better than that. The word he actually used, "adequacy", does not.

(I went back to read the poem after your post just because I was insanely curious as to what possible word "adequate" could be the best rhyme for.....)

...

ad·e·qua·cy /ˈædɪkwəsi/ [ad-i-kwuh-see]
–noun, plural -cies. the state or quality of being adequate; sufficiency for a particular purpose

I am trying desperately to see how your argument makes sense, but it really, really doesn't.

ocato
2007-09-09, 11:00 AM
Ha! As for the Wile E. Coyote claim, I may win. I went to this party last night, imbibed a few potent potables, and then went throughout the party like the Terminator, sought out all three homosexual females (big party, small minority) and tried to chat them up.

It was at this point that I realized the tunnel was only painted on, but it was too late.

The good news is that I made new friends with very friendly lesbians.

zeratul
2007-09-09, 11:16 AM
...

ad·e·qua·cy /ˈædɪkwəsi/ [ad-i-kwuh-see]
–noun, plural -cies. the state or quality of being adequate; sufficiency for a particular purpose

I am trying desperately to see how your argument makes sense, but it really, really doesn't.

How is that negative exactly?

Brickwall
2007-09-09, 11:23 AM
How is that negative exactly?

ad·e·quate /ˈædɪkwɪt/ [ad-i-kwit]
–adjective 1. as much or as good as necessary for some requirement or purpose; fully sufficient, suitable, or fit (often fol. by to or for
2. barely sufficient or suitable

That one's used often enough to make the word sound negative.

Do you get it now?

zeratul
2007-09-09, 11:25 AM
ad·e·quate /ˈædɪkwɪt/ [ad-i-kwit]
–adjective 1. as much or as good as necessary for some requirement or purpose; fully sufficient, suitable, or fit (often fol. by to or for
2. barely sufficient or suitable

That one's used often enough to make the word sound negative.

Do you get it now?

I understand, however I was not using the second deffenition

(also we should probably get back on topic, anyone have s'more problems?)

Syka
2007-09-09, 11:38 AM
No problems here. In fact, everything is going pretty darn good. :smallsmile:

Last night he said something that made my mind start running again. Evidently as long as it's just me thinking about something, I can shut my mind off. Once someone else brings something up, it just latches on. He'd asked if someone asks if we're taken or not what to say. I kinda rambled pretty...incoherently before just saying I don't know. Well, eventually I just said, "You know, I'm going to kick myself if I don't say something. Do you want something serious? I'm all for it, but if not it's cool because I don't want to mess this up." Before I had said that we'd both been kinda skirting around it, I think neither of us wanting to be the one to say it (and yes, he'd said stuff that made me think he wanted it to be a relationship but didn't really want to say it, like how he's always been a one-girl guy, and he'd like to be able to call me his girlfriend, etc, but neither of us just laid it out).

So yah, it's "Facebook Official" now as my friends put it. It was probably one of the more frightening things I've done, but I'm very proud of myself for finally getting some guts. The me of a year ago would never have done that, but I decided I wasn't going to torment myself for the rest of the night. And look how it turned out. :smallredface:

Cheers,
Syka...who is ready to kill her phone, though it would be pointless as it's already in it's deathrows...

Thrivol
2007-09-09, 03:06 PM
Hello everyone. I have been wondering one thing for quite a long time: Does this one girl like me? Help would be appreciated.

Background: Two years ago, we met. We became good friends quickly, to the point which people thought we were going out (we were not, however). We both ended up liking each other as more than friends (even though we did not admit it, as she already had a BF). Unfortunately, a few things happened, and our friendship steadily declined. By the next year, we just weren't talking.

However, this year, I have noticed her staring at me. Not looking, but staring. For example: we are both in band, and we were marching in the field one day. My section was taking a break, while hers was practicing alone for a few minutes. I felt that sensation someone is staring at you, I turned around, and she was. She didn't stop staring immediately, which makes me think she wanted me to know she was staring at me.

Normally, I would think little of things like that, but this has happened more than a couple times. Also, she briefly flirted with me, right after band practice. Note: we have not talked in at least half a year.

So I beseech you, forumers, to tell me if she might be interested in me.

(Oh, and if you know me IRL, you are one of the PCs in my campaign. Speak a word of this to anyone, and I promise by our band director himself, you shall be destroyed by one of my either my telepath of doom and his bear or the artificer, with your bodies not being found for 84d10+70 years).

Vampiric
2007-09-09, 03:26 PM
Well, I'd say that it could be the case. Do you have any opportunities to talk to her? During, before, after or outside of band? Probably the advice that, if I didn't give it, would be mostly said is: Go and talk to her. ASK! Seriously. At worst, you've found someone who stares at people. At best.. well, you might have found yourself a girlfriend.:smallwink:

Logic
2007-09-09, 03:44 PM
Jibar. At some point in nearly every persons life, they will be attracted to the wrong kind of person for them. Whether it be the "bad boy," the "bad girl" or any other variation, it is important to get it out of your system eventually. Now, I am not advocating that you pursue her, as that will probably cause more heartache than you care to deal with, nor do I suggest you ignore her.

Attempt to be her friend, and take a step back from any feelings you have for her. You already know that she is probably not an ideal candidate for these feelings, and yet you feel them anyway. If feelings made sense, then we would have no need of a thread like this one.

Syka
2007-09-09, 07:00 PM
Jib...if she's dating someone else- no touchy. Just...stay away. Hazardous material. Unless it's an open relationship, in which case proceed with caution. I would take what the ex says with a grain of salt, but don't automatically dismiss it. If I were asked about either of my ex's I would let the person know both the bad and the good.

And sometimes...you just need to have a bad experience. I knew with my last thing that there was pretty much a 99% chance I'd get hurt and I did. Do I regret it? Not in the least. But I also know how to not put myself in that situation, even if part of me wants to. I know it's not worth it now.

It's learning experiences and they can be good for you. :)

Cheers,
Syka

Rama_Lei
2007-09-09, 07:10 PM
Alright, here we go.
One of my best friends Laura is very near and dear to my heart. She's sweet, kind, happy, and innocent to a fault. A group of my friends has already sworn to protect, but we do want her to be prepared for the real world, and so if she asks a question, we're answering it. Now recently, she's befriended a freshman (we're sophomores). They got along really well, and seemed very similar. He's gay, so I'm not worried about him trying to date her or anything. But recently, I've become aware that he has a giant reputation for backstabbing. I'm not going to say anything, since he seemed fine to me,and I'm going to keep a close eye on both of them, but I'm worried. Laura's the kind of person who would really take having her trust misused very badly. Help, please?

ForzaFiori
2007-09-09, 07:28 PM
Rama: Let Laura know what you've heard about the guy, then let her decide. If she keeps up the friendship, watch him. if you hear that he's backstabbing her, teach him not to screw over your friends.

Tom_Violence
2007-09-09, 08:03 PM
I never expected to post here, but meh, I'm just that bored tonight.

@Jibar: Your situation intrigues me. As you describe it I can understand why people would be eager to ward you off immediately, but I know from first hand experience that things aren't always so simple. Hell, if I was to explain the history of my relationship to people many would probably call me crazy, and most of our mutual friends do hold that opinion, I think. But relationships are hideously complicated things, and people can always surprise you. Basically what I'm getting at is that no one here is going to be able to know the ins and outs of your situation as well as you do, so my advice is this - get to know her better (from the sounds of things you've pretty much only just met), then make a decision. Don't be swayed by rumours and naysayers. Give her a chance. Even if she has a reputation for cheating and whatnot that's no reason to write her off. Don't be blinkered, but don't be cynical either.

Oh, and @Brickwall: I think the word 'adequacy' is fine there - to me it read that he and her are well suited, not 'barely getting by'.

Leper_Kahn
2007-09-09, 08:51 PM
I feel bad. I'd like to contribute to this thread before I ask for advice, but I just haven't been able to. I've been watching for a couple days to no avail.

Here's the deal. I've known this girl my whole life . We've never been friends. That's not to say we don't like each other it's just that she and I never really talked much. Now for the past two and a half years I've been going to a different middle then high school than she and all of my friends did. For simplicities sake I'll give them names. Let's call the school that I went to Greenfield High and the school that my friends and she (Let's call her Laura.) went to Summerville High. Last year I switched from Greenfield to Summerville in the middle of the year. I found out that my group of friends started to kinda hang out with Laura and her group of friends.

The is a part that makes this whole thing weird, since Summerville is so huge (2000+ people) no one really has a group of friends other than people they knew before they went to Summerville. So that leads to not really hanging out with your group of friends, which leads to all manner of craziness. It's very unlikely to know a single person in any of your classes well. That's what makes it odd to do what I did.

In the summer after the switch to Summerville (Whoa I picked a bad fake name. :smalltongue: ) I was in a driver's ed class with Laura, her group or friends, and my group of friends. She's rather shy and doesn't seem to talk a lot other than to people who talk to her. Well, so am I. So even though we ended up taking a driver's ed course together and hanging out for 8 hours a day for five days in a row (Yes... It was that long... *Shudder*) we never talked much more than me explaining why I switched from Greenfield to Summerville and to talk about our mutual dislike of another person in the class. To anyone just watching it wouldn't appear that I had developed a crush on Laura. We didn't flirt, I didn't really make it clear in any way. We got along well enough though. After the class is when I get confused though.

The day after the class ended I called up Laura and asked her out. She seemed surprised and said an obvious no, but hid it with "I'm too busy to go out." So I was done. I figured that things might work out in the end, but I wasn't sure. So summer ends and we're back in school now. The masses of Summerville weren't enough to keep us apart though. She's in my english class and, as far as I can tell, makes a point to avoid me. The first day she walked in. Looked at me. Then moved to the other side of the room. The class is like a U with me on the right side and her on the left. She doesn't look at me, and doesn't talk to me during the class. She tries not to do either outside of class too...

Now I'm really confused. She doesn't seem angry or scared. There was no look of shock and horror on her face when she first walked in the class on the first day. She doesn't make absolutely sure we aren't near enough each other to talk. It's just that she seems like she doesn't want to talk to me more than she has to. She still has hung out with my group of friends when I'm not there. So I just don't know how to continue. I pretty much have dropped it at this point. I can't tell if she just doesn't want to date me, or if it is beyond that and she thinks I'm scary or something. I was wondering if it was the fact that I was forward with asking her out but didn't know her well before hand.

I can't thank you enough for the help.

EDIT: Holy [email protected]!& that is a long post... Sorry! :smalleek:

FdL
2007-09-09, 09:15 PM
Leper, all I can say for my experience is that some girls don't take this kind of situations very well. She probably feels uncomfortable with the position she's been put in, or doesn't know how to deal with it, be it for herself or for you.

So it's sad, but it's basically her problem. Personally I'd walk up to her and make everything explicit. I mean, if she's not going to be your friend or date you, it doesn't mean she has to run away from you. But again, this is something she does, so don't think it's your fault or anything. You just asked her out, which is a nice thing to do to someone, she should at least be flattered. But well, some people aren't very mature about these things.

That's my 2c.

Serpentine
2007-09-10, 12:31 AM
Hello everyone. I have been wondering one thing for quite a long time: Does this one girl like me? Help would be appreciated...
So I beseech you, forumers, to tell me if she might be interested in me.
I'd like to warn you against jumping the gun, here. I'd suggest that for now you could suppose that she'd like to restart the friendship you used to have but is too nervous/shy/awkward/guilty to make the first move. Rebuild what you had, and then worry about interestedness.

Leper: First of all, don't feel bad :smalltongue: Secondly, seems to me that she just feels awkward. If it came out of the blue, she's probably had several assumptions about whatever relationship you two were developing rather abruptly jolted and doesn't quite know how to act. She could even be embarrassed about it (I suspect I would be, but I couldn't say how/why). Even if you asked her directly, there's a good chance she wouldn't be able to give a satisfactory answer for her behaviour. I recommend that you go out of your way to make it clear to her that, while you were/are interested in more, for now there's no reason why you can't simply be decent friends. You've already said she's shy, which probably compounds her confusion and embarrassment and makes it less likely that she'll go to the effort of salvaging your little friendship, so if you want to keep it going it's probably gonna be up to you, I'm afraid.

Zeb The Troll
2007-09-10, 01:09 AM
Okay, I've still been following this thread but so many more people have jumped in to offer their sound advice that I haven't felt the need to add anything for a while. I still don't have anything to add, I just felt like reasserting my presence. My apologies if this bothers any of you. :smallwink:

Thrivol - It seems you've got someone who'd like to have a bit more of your attention and is trying awfully hard not to be terribly subtle about it. See if you can spend some time with her. Chat her up. Make friendly. It's entirely possible that she just wants to be friends with you and misses that from you and nothing more but rebuilding old friendships is typically a good thing too. Then again, maybe she's developed an interest after all. You'll never know if you don't talk to her.

Leper_Kahn - I think she's just feeling awkward because she doesn't return your feelings and is afraid of "leading you on". It seems like it would be in your best interest to communicate to her somehow that you're not put off by the fact that she said no and also that you got the message and you're still capable of being friends without that.

Serpentine
2007-09-10, 01:18 AM
=.= Curse you and your devilspawn eloquence Zeb! You managed to say what I was trying to in less words and more... making... senseness... than me.

Vampiric
2007-09-10, 05:30 AM
=.= Curse you and your devilspawn eloquence Zeb! You managed to say what I was trying to in less words and more... making... senseness... than me.

Ah, the good old more-making-senseness...:smallwink:

And now, for your general amusement:

Jubilation! (http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20040920)

Jibar
2007-09-10, 10:17 AM
Jib...if she's dating someone else- no touchy. Just...stay away. Hazardous material. Unless it's an open relationship, in which case proceed with caution. I would take what the ex says with a grain of salt, but don't automatically dismiss it. If I were asked about either of my ex's I would let the person know both the bad and the good.

I know about not dating anyone with partner. Baaad move there.
But I'm also really not gonna listen to the ex. So far he's warned me off at every opportunity he's had, and plenty of non-opportunities. I'm really sure he's actually gonna call me up at some point, just to warn me away.
I think he might be a leeeettle possessive.


Attempt to be her friend, and take a step back from any feelings you have for her. You already know that she is probably not an ideal candidate for these feelings, and yet you feel them anyway. If feelings made sense, then we would have no need of a thread like this one.

Oh of course I'm gonna be the friend. This is the chick who goes moshing. That wins all kinds of awesome points.

Syka
2007-09-10, 11:23 AM
...I had a poem written for me last night. The reason why he did is kinda funny, but still...I've never had a poem written for me before. :smallredface:

Oh yah...heh, I believe the catalyst is that I found a way for him to get this snack he hasn't been able to find since he was 5. He mentioned it in passing while we were talking last night, and me being the person I am, I did a google search and came up with a site where you can buy them. I debated whether I should just buy some or give him the link, and I went with the latter because I know myself- I'd forget. x.x

Tip #24: Most girls like it if you write poems for them. It doesn't have to necessarily be good poetry, but if you mean what you say, it can go a looong way.

Tip #16: Not all girls who are hopeless romantics will admit to it or appear to be one. :) I say this because I'm that type of girl who does not seem to be the least bit of a romantic (c'mon, I rail against Valentine's Day every year...), and yet I love all that mushy, romantic stuff. Granted, I've got a nice realistic streak, so it makes for interesting internal conversations, but I'd say err on the side of caution and if you feel like doing something romantic- do it.

But back off if they say so. :smallwink: Us girls vary.

Cheers,
Syka

Brickwall
2007-09-10, 12:19 PM
Tip #24: Most girls like it if you write poems for them. It doesn't have to necessarily be good poetry, but if you mean what you say, it can go a looong way.

Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more, say no more, eh? :smalltongue:

*cough*

Right, I would like to add that there is such a thing as bad poetry, and it's a good idea to at least make sure that your poem is up to "okay" level before you present it. For instance, comparing her hair to the golden sunlight is poetic. Comparing her hair to a hay bale is NOT. Have a friend look it over or, better yet, go over to Arts&Crafts and have the Artists in the Playground give it a look. Only if you're not an experienced poet, that is. If you write poems occasionally, and they aren't hated by people, then you're probably in the clear. This is just if you're trying it out for the first time. It can't be pleasant to read a poem with...unintentionally unflattering comparisons.

Syka
2007-09-10, 12:35 PM
Haha, yes, that is a good point. But by that I had meant that the flow/meter/ryhmes/etc aren't necessarily the best, not that the comparisons could be...insulting. :smallwink:

For a spur of the moment thing, he did a pretty good job though. :)

Cheers,
Syka

Serpentine
2007-09-10, 10:17 PM
Tip #24: Most girls like it if you write poems for them. It doesn't have to necessarily be good poetry, but if you mean what you say, it can go a looong way.
My ex drew me a picture of a dragon ^_^ I think it was the very day he asked me out, and I believe it had "(Serpentine) + Adam 4eva" on it, which was a little awkward... but still so sweet and cool ^_^ I hope I still have that somewhere...

ForzaFiori
2007-09-10, 10:19 PM
really OT but syka: I love the pirate avatar.

Vuzzmop
2007-09-11, 12:35 AM
Don't do poetry. It may seem like it's a wonderful and sweet gesture but to them, it just means they have you wrapped around their finger. Put a girl on a pedestal, and she will treat you like little more than "that guy who wrote her a nauseatingly sweet poem once". I don't mean to be cynical, but inflating a girl's ego causes no good. Maybe I'm just bitter, but I've done my fare share of pedestal placing. Don't make them pity you, make them want you.

Zeb The Troll
2007-09-11, 12:43 AM
Don't do poetry. It may seem like it's a wonderful and sweet gesture but to them, it just means they have you wrapped around their finger. Put a girl on a pedestal, and she will treat you like little more than "that guy who wrote her a nauseatingly sweet poem once". I don't mean to be cynical, but inflating a girl's ego causes no good. Maybe I'm just bitter, but I've done my fare share of pedestal placing. Don't make them pity you, make them want you.I disagree wholeheartedly. I'll admit I'm a hack of a poet but a sincere attempt and a mediocre finished product has always served me well. I will add this caveat though - don't do poetry just because someone said it might work. If you feel a need to write a poem, then do so. Otherwise find another romantic outlet.

For example, another thing that's worked for me in the past - buy her flowers other than roses and explain why they remind you of her.

Brickwall
2007-09-11, 01:05 AM
Don't do poetry. It may seem like it's a wonderful and sweet gesture but to them, it just means they have you wrapped around their finger. Put a girl on a pedestal, and she will treat you like little more than "that guy who wrote her a nauseatingly sweet poem once". I don't mean to be cynical, but inflating a girl's ego causes no good. Maybe I'm just bitter, but I've done my faor share of pedestal placing. Don't make them pity you, make them want you.

This isn't even right from a theoretical standpoint, much less a practical one.

According to you, when you write a woman a poem, give her flowers, give her foot massages, you place her on a pedestal above you and kiss her feet. Wrong. What you should be doing is placing her on a throne next to yours. That's why we should do that. No man should degrade himself for anyone, not even for love. That said, "make her want you" is bull. You can't. Girls want guys who make them feel good. You don't "inflate her ego", she doesn't feel good in the relationship, and she'll want to be leaving. You should treat her like the queen she is, long as she treats you as the king you are. It's a give-and-take, and if she doesn't respect you, well, that's a seperate issue. But poems and flowers got started for a reason. And they're still here for a reason. The success stories are the reason. If you had bad experiences, perhaps you might want to think about other reasons they might not have reacted the way you wanted? I'm sure it wasn't because your poetry made them think they could get better. I don't think anyone you could care about would think like that.

And pity. Pity? Who could pity a man with the soul of an artist? Who could pity a man who knows how to make someone feel good, like they're on top of the world? Who could pity a man who can show his love? Nobody with half a brain. I think you have the wrong idea of romance, my friend. Women don't fall in love with men who write poems because they think, "Oh, the sad little creature was so desperate as to write a poem for me." It doesn't work that way, leastways not with women who weren't predisposed to being haughty. Maybe you haven't been writing the right kinds of poems.

Serpentine
2007-09-11, 02:51 AM
Brickles, I think that's the most right thing I've seen you say in this whole thread. How's that for a backhanded compliment? ;)

To be honest, I don't know how I'd go with receiving poetry. I don't think I ever do more than skim over any that's posted here, and i couldn't really say why. Maybe it's something to do with the fact that I usually prefer poetry of the surreal (e.g. Lewis Carrol), creepy (i.e. Edgar Allen Poe) or whimsical (say, the stuff by the guy who did Winnie the Pooh) type. It's a little odd, actually... Zeratul, you wrote a poem a little while ago, didn't you? I'm gonna make myself go read it.
edit: Well, I've figured out part of it. I can't read one without just looking for flaws >.< Not that yours is full of them or anything, Zer.

Zeb The Troll
2007-09-11, 03:22 AM
Here's the thing with that, though, Serpentine. If it's written by your guy for you, ideally you'd be less interested in mechanics and more interested in what he has to say about you. Of course, just like any other endeavor, no one thing is a 100% sure shot. Some people just won't appreciate it as much as others. There's nothing wrong with that. I'd still say, though, that if you're writing for a girl (or guy, for that matter) that you're already in a relationship with, the effort will be appreciated even if the poem isn't.

Serpentine
2007-09-11, 06:38 AM
One has relationships with one's friends and housemates, does one not? This will just be a quick rant on the latest bit of weirdness. If I can ever set my mental ravings down in type I may go into the matter in more detail (including the stuff with the other housemate) and in a manner that may encourage the giving of advice. For now, though...

My housemate just went through an entire roll of toilet paper in about 3 hours. An entire roll. 3 hours. I swear. I went in there about 3-4 hours ago, and there was as much on the second last roll as there now is on the last roll. And now she's not gonna be getting any replacements for at least 2 days, even though I've asked her to get some regularly :smallsigh: What's more, she didn't even put the empty roll and toilet paper package into the rubbish bin, which would have been no further than about a metre and a half away.

But seriously. An entire bloody roll. How does she do it? How?! I'd have to sit there pulling it out that entire time, and I'd probably get bored before I finished! Alright, here's a bit of advice I could handle hearing. How does one bring up the subject of toilet habits with someone you live with?

edit: I just thought I should elaborate, I've mentioned this in here because this is the latest of continuing issues that strain the relationships of the household. This one on its own doesn't seem that much, but it all accumulates... and this one is just plain baffling.

Syka
2007-09-11, 07:23 AM
First, you must have met some pretty cold hearted women. And did you not note that I said "most" not "all"?

I for one, do not expect to be placed on a pedestal- I want to be an equal. You think I pity the guy I'm dating just because he wrote me poetry and has been showing that he cares about me? I'm somewhat offended. I understand it won't work for everyone, but the poem meant just as much as some of the stuff my ex made for me. It just depends on the persons particular talent. A mutual friend even said I had him whipped- which implies that I'm trying to order him to do stuff and all. I'm not, nor have I ever been like that. He just likes to be in touch with me. I

s there really something THAT wrong with showing you care about someone that people will question writing poems and talking on the phone for hours? Especially when said someone lives three hours away?

Zeb, good advice with the flowers. ;) Unfortunately, my favorite are dark red roses. Hehe, thankfully he asked me about that. I just don't like many types of flowers...*shrug* I was really upset when my class flower was changed from a white rose to the gerber daisy (they said it was "too expensive"...which I don't know why they didn't go with fake flowers like my friends school did...plus the RED daisy looked just terrible with our RED gowns, as it was about four shades off...sorry).

Serp, I'll admit to not having read the poems on here, and it's why I didn't post the poems (yes, plural now) that Oz wrote me. They mean something to me because they were written for a special purposes, chances are they'd be little more than mediocre poetry to others. But I can understand where you are coming from. As for your housemate issues...I'm assuming you've talked to her? All I can say, is make sure certain things aren't shared. Buy your own toilet paper, and keep it in your room, etc, etc, etc.

Other than that I don't have much advice because the only people I've really lived with in that sort of situation is family. ;)

Cheers,
Syka

Zeb The Troll
2007-09-11, 07:49 AM
Zeb, good advice with the flowers. ;) Unfortunately, my favorite are dark red roses. Hehe, thankfully he asked me about that. I just don't like many types of flowers...*shrug*

Cheers,
SykaAh, but see, my suggestion wasn't about rote memorization of favorite things. That's good too, but not where I was going. It's about symbolism and imagery, and it's personal.

Imagine this scenario. Your guy sends you an orchid, and with the orchid is a card that says something along the lines of "This made me think of you. It's wild and exotic. Delicate, yet bold. Rare in its beauty and beautiful in its rarity."

Wouldn't you smile a bit? :smallcool:

mdsoze
2007-09-11, 08:09 AM
I have to agree with Zeb here, and not just about flowers.

Actually, as my partner will confirm, I am terrible about getting flowers. I blame it on the fact that my mom is allergic to pretty much all of them, and so the concept of gifting flowers was entirely absent from my youth.

The key of the gift is that it shows you cared and you thought of something they would enjoy. In fact, if a potential mate were more concerned with the cost of the gift than the thought put into it, it would set of alarm bells and red flags with me. Now, if you screw up, and get flowers when she's allergic, that shows the reverse, you went with the stereotypical romantic gifts as opposed to something she would enjoy.

Thrawn183
2007-09-11, 10:53 AM
Though everyone should be given a second chance when it comes to allergies. If someone doesn't tell you, it isn't your fault. You can't look at someone and tell they are allergic to something. (To the best of my knowledge, at least).

Scorpina
2007-09-11, 02:35 PM
Don't do poetry. It may seem like it's a wonderful and sweet gesture but to them, it just means they have you wrapped around their finger. Put a girl on a pedestal, and she will treat you like little more than "that guy who wrote her a nauseatingly sweet poem once". I don't mean to be cynical, but inflating a girl's ego causes no good. Maybe I'm just bitter, but I've done my fare share of pedestal placing. Don't make them pity you, make them want you.

If you make a girl feel good about herself, she'll come to associate you with feeling good about yourself and, because of that, want to have you around. I will conceed, however, that it might be best to steer clear of 'nauseatingly sweet'.



For example, another thing that's worked for me in the past - buy her flowers other than roses and explain why they remind you of her.

...but find out if she hates flowers/has severe hayfever first... and yeah, roses (especially red ones) are a huge cliché. Almost as bad as chocolates.


Brickles, I think that's the most right thing I've seen you say in this whole thread. How's that for a backhanded compliment? ;)

To be honest, I don't know how I'd go with receiving poetry. I don't think I ever do more than skim over any that's posted here, and i couldn't really say why. Maybe it's something to do with the fact that I usually prefer poetry of the surreal (e.g. Lewis Carrol), creepy (i.e. Edgar Allen Poe) or whimsical (say, the stuff by the guy who did Winnie the Pooh) type. It's a little odd, actually... Zeratul, you wrote a poem a little while ago, didn't you? I'm gonna make myself go read it.
edit: Well, I've figured out part of it. I can't read one without just looking for flaws >.< Not that yours is full of them or anything, Zer.

That's kind of the biggest flaw with poetry, the people who're into poetry usually are going to be the kind that spot whatever flaws yours has, and the people who aren't into poetry just won't appreciate the poem as much as the people that are would.

On flowers, the sweetest thing I've had (flowers wise) from someone I was dating was when my (now ex-)girlfriend told me that she'd almost bought me flowers, but changed her mind at the last minute and then explained exactly why. It was sooo sweet.

...I also believe I read a poem on a similar topic by Wendy Cope...

phoenixineohp
2007-09-11, 02:42 PM
The right flowers for her are a win. Roses I don't care much about and that will probably just make me uncomfortable. Give me a single, nice and fresh sunflower and I'll be tickled pink. :smallbiggrin:

Jack Squat
2007-09-11, 02:45 PM
The right flowers for her are a win. Roses I don't care much about and that will probably just make me uncomfortable. Give me a single, nice and fresh sunflower and I'll be tickled pink. :smallbiggrin:

which sunflowers? because the ones I think of right away are a little hard to hide behind your back.

http://www.isledegrande.com/giimages16/genna-baldassarre-sunflower8-17-06.jpg

zeratul
2007-09-11, 02:55 PM
...I had a poem written for me last night. The reason why he did is kinda funny, but still...I've never had a poem written for me before. :smallredface:

Oh yah...heh, I believe the catalyst is that I found a way for him to get this snack he hasn't been able to find since he was 5. He mentioned it in passing while we were talking last night, and me being the person I am, I did a google search and came up with a site where you can buy them. I debated whether I should just buy some or give him the link, and I went with the latter because I know myself- I'd forget. x.x

Tip #24: Most girls like it if you write poems for them. It doesn't have to necessarily be good poetry, but if you mean what you say, it can go a looong way.

Tip #16: Not all girls who are hopeless romantics will admit to it or appear to be one. :) I say this because I'm that type of girl who does not seem to be the least bit of a romantic (c'mon, I rail against Valentine's Day every year...), and yet I love all that mushy, romantic stuff. Granted, I've got a nice realistic streak, so it makes for interesting internal conversations, but I'd say err on the side of caution and if you feel like doing something romantic- do it.

But back off if they say so. :smallwink: Us girls are crazy.

Cheers,
Syka

Fixed that for ya.:smallbiggrin:

i have various reasons for not wanting to send mine.

1.possabillity of the poem coming on to strong.
2. paranoid BS
3. Possabillity of seeming creepy

The second group is comprised of all the little paranoid things that could but are unlikely to happen. The first and third i find more realistic. (though still it's partly just me being paranoid

sktarq
2007-09-11, 03:07 PM
Flowers-unless you both know and have fun with Victorian flower codes they can be a dicy option. It is part of the same spectrum as jewlery-looks pretty and totally useless...just lots lower down. I admit I generally don't bother until actually IN a relationship. Then leaving a single longstemed rose on the pillow on a random day-just because can be fun....Yeah that's the big thing I find with flowers they only work if totally planned or spontaneous. (Rose seller accosts you while you sip your coffee/tea/G&T's and you randomly and out of character say yes type)...But if you do the spontaneous make sure to shake the dirt off the roots fist.

zeratul
2007-09-11, 03:17 PM
You guys are forgetting the most important cliche!
1.flowers
2.chocolates
3.promises you dont intend to keep


Okay, this half an actual problem, half a complaint about the man brain, and why I have to have one.
Having successfully settled into my new school, and accidentally making new friends along the way (sorry Bricky), I had the pleasure of meeting the woman henceforth called Nelly. A lovely girl, by all accounts.
While being told how she would flirt with everybody new, I was warned off by the ex to stay back for my own good. Further pressing the issue through a mutual friend, apparantly Nelly is the man trap. Having cheated on said ex with two gentlemen, she is now dating one of them and still hooking up with the other.

My comment has nothing to do with dating two people jib, it's this.
often nice seeming people can turn out to be creepy. The stories may be true, so before you end up in an undesirable sitch, find out things first.
As my sister reffered to one person as they can turn out to be "warm fuzzy temptresses."

Syka
2007-09-11, 03:29 PM
Oh man, I used to have so much fun looking at the meanings of flowers and their colors. It'll be so funny if one day I go, "You know, this flower you gave me means you hate me, and this particular color means I'm ugly." *look of shock* "Naw, I'm just kidding. :smallwink: "


Zeb, I understand what you're saying now. :) Yes, that would be incredibly sweet.

Basically, whatever the guys way of showing they care is good with me. With my ex, he made me chainmail (I got a dice bag and some jewlery), which I still have. With Oz, it's poetry. Heck, if the guys way of showing me he cared was...I don't know, whatever as long as I know it's because he cared, I'd be good. I realize everyone has different ways of showing they care. Like, with me, I do it by storing little off hand remarks (such as with the Koala Yummies) and bringing them up later as a surprise. :)

Cheers,
Syka

FdL
2007-09-11, 03:34 PM
I bought flowers a couple of times for my ex. She appreciated them, but her general attitude towards them is was that it's a waste of money.

Alarra
2007-09-11, 03:46 PM
I like flowers in general, and like getting them. However, it's so much better to get...say...your favorite kind of flower, or ones that mean something about you or them or your relationship than to just get roses or a random miscellaneous bouquet. It shows a lot more thought and caring, and in the case of 'your favorite flower' that they know you, or have done their homework, or remember and notice offhand comments you make, which is always a really nice feeling.

Brickwall
2007-09-11, 03:48 PM
I realize everyone has different ways of showing they care. Like, with me, I do it by storing little off hand remarks (such as with the Koala Yummies) and bringing them up later as a surprise. :)

I thought that was you womenfolk's way to try and keep the upper hand in arguments, not showing affection. Guess I was mistaken. :smalltongue:

Scorpina
2007-09-11, 04:03 PM
I thought that was you womenfolk's way to try and keep the upper hand in arguments, not showing affection. Guess I was mistaken. :smalltongue:

It works both ways.

Syka
2007-09-11, 04:07 PM
Well...I guess it works for arguments too. But I'm more a lover than a fighter, so it generally gets used to show affection rather than to one-up my opponent. ;)

I generally try to not fight dirty.

Cheers,
Syka

Swedish chef
2007-09-11, 04:11 PM
On flowers, the sweetest thing I've had (flowers wise) from someone I was dating was when my (now ex-)girlfriend told me that she'd almost bought me flowers, but changed her mind at the last minute and then explained exactly why. It was sooo sweet.


Awwwwww. Thats sooo sweet.

For me It's usually "Hmmm maybe I should buy flowers for my date, but we don't know each other so well yet.... hmmm I'll wait untill next date or so"

Unfortunately the "next date or so rarely happens *sigh*

Chef sad, go smash tree now!

Leper_Kahn
2007-09-11, 05:03 PM
That was a lot of posts really really fast!

Anyway, I want to thank the people who responded with advice. It was very helpful. Of course now I have to do the actual part of DOING what you suggested. Heh... Thanks again! :smallwink:

phoenixineohp
2007-09-11, 05:17 PM
Basically, whatever the guys way of showing they care is good with me. With my ex, he made me chainmail (I got a dice bag and some jewlery), which I still have. With Oz, it's poetry. Heck, if the guys way of showing me he cared was...I don't know, whatever as long as I know it's because he cared, I'd be good. I realize everyone has different ways of showing they care. Like, with me, I do it by storing little off hand remarks (such as with the Koala Yummies) and bringing them up later as a surprise. :)

Cheers,
Syka

I was asked what my favourite colour of smartie (a candy like m&m's) were. A while later I received a box full of just that colour. Very sweet.

magicwalker
2007-09-11, 05:27 PM
I just wanted to thank all those that sent me messenges regarding my most recent post. I really appreciate the food for thought.

sktarq
2007-09-11, 06:00 PM
I thought that was you womenfolk's way to try and keep the upper hand in arguments, not showing affection. Guess I was mistaken. :smalltongue:

and why in the world would you assume it is a femine tactic? Men even give it a name when used against someone: Know thine enemy

Scorpina
2007-09-11, 06:12 PM
I was asked what my favourite colour of smartie (a candy like m&m's) were. A while later I received a box full of just that colour. Very sweet.

Aww, that's really really sweet.

*plots to steal that idea*

Brickwall
2007-09-11, 06:26 PM
and why in the world would you assume it is a femine tactic? Men even give it a name when used against someone: Know thine enemy

That's when you go through efforts to find stuff. Women just catalogue everything, and plot to use it against you someday. It's a different order of information and intent to use information.

sktarq
2007-09-11, 06:30 PM
That's when you go through efforts to find stuff. Women just catalogue everything, and plot to use it against you someday. It's a different order of information and intent to use information.

Okay I both dig and catalogue. So does my girlfriend, at least when she's sober. Then again we are both very wierd. She calls it gossiping more often than I do. I'm totally failing to see the difference in the genders that you propose.

Brickwall
2007-09-11, 06:33 PM
Okay I both dig and catalogue. So does my girlfriend, at least when she's sober. Then again we are both very wierd. She calls it gossiping more often than I do. I'm totally failing to see the difference in the genders that you propose.

When you've read as many books written on the differences of sexes that I have, perhaps you'll understand. But that subject has been covered so many times on the forums that you could just go dig up all the threads that cover it and find out for yourself.

sktarq
2007-09-11, 06:45 PM
I'd say I probably have....took a collage corse devoted to it. Frustrated the teacher madly. Massivly different vocab, speach styles, etc but really not that hard....about as different as another country.

ForzaFiori
2007-09-11, 06:49 PM
I was asked what my favourite colour of smartie (a candy like m&m's) were. A while later I received a box full of just that colour. Very sweet.

picture how many packs he had to buy to get a box full of ONLY that color.

and also, what did he do w/ all the others?
that would be ALOT of smarties.

Brickwall
2007-09-11, 07:07 PM
I'd say I probably have....took a collage corse devoted to it. Frustrated the teacher madly. Massivly different vocab, speach styles, etc but really not that hard....about as different as another country.

So obviously you should understand the difference between memory systems, communication methods, perceptions, etc. And if you do, then we have no argument.

And what happened to your spelling? It seemed fine a post or two ago. :smallconfused:

Leper_Kahn
2007-09-11, 08:55 PM
picture how many packs he had to buy to get a box full of ONLY that color.

and also, what did he do w/ all the others?
that would be ALOT of smarties.

There's a store in my neighborhood that sells M&Ms by the color. Beyond expensive, but I'm sure the have something similar for smarties and the like.

rubakhin
2007-09-11, 09:33 PM
If anyone is curious as to the conclusion of my little Russian drama, it seems that Sasha no longer has even the slightest interest in speaking to me again. Now the messages I send aren't returned. And how can I ask for help with that? Should I break down his doors with a battle-axe? Maybe so! Maybe he is like a woman, waiting for me to drag him away from his mother by his hair. But no, I haven't heard from him in weeks, maybe a month, or who knows. It's just me and Stolichnaya ... ah, Sashenka, ya vse-taki lyublyu ... Sashechka ... Pushok ... Podarok ...

I will end him and all he loves.

*sigh* No, I don't even feel vengeful. Especially since I somehow feel that it was his heart who I broke and not the other way around. I'm only ashamed for my pride that he'll leave with such a memory of me. In time, it'll eat away his idea of my goodness. Soon he'll have only contempt for me and another tale of how life tortures him so. He'll milk The Story of the Bastard Who Destroyed My Life for decades afterwards, I'm sure. And he'll glow with self-admiration when everyone congratulates him for leaving such a clod. And what about me, what about me? Do I not deserve love? Certainly, I don't. What an inhuman being I must be, if I belong among the ranks of creatures so low as to not deserve love. Feh. So, that's the end of that. I have no strings left in this world, not even the slightest, except my little brother Aleksander, the light of my life, who has reached the age where I could gladly **** off all the way to the tigers. Therefore, I've signed up to get my GED and after that I'll join the Peace Corps.

Youngblood
2007-09-12, 02:33 AM
I think this is probably more of an ethical question, but it's about relationships too so any advice would be appreciated.

I've been in the same informal kung fu class for about five years now. Originally, my b/f at the time was in the class and I decided to start learning as well. We broke up a little over a year ago, but we're both still in the class. Though my ex is still a little touchy about the breakup, we've managed to get to a point where we can at work together without drama and be passable friends. Now, our teacher Ed and my ex have been best friends for longer than I've known either of them, but since I've been in the class Ed and I have gotten to be really good friends, too, and we hang out outside of class several nights a week. The thing is, over the course of the last few months I've developed feelings for Ed. Not just physical attraction or a "crush" or anything, I'm pretty sure what I feel for this guy is real honest-to-gods love. I've taken pains to keep this to myself and while nothing has ever been explicitly stated, I'm reasonably certain that Ed has similar feelings for me too.

So, that's kind of a problem, because (1) the teacher-student relationship is really important in martial arts and doesn't usually mix well with romantic involvement (2) Ed and my ex are still best friends and I know if Ed and I ever did become romantically involved that friendship would be completely destroyed. And even though my ex and I aren't particularly close anymore, I don't want to cause him unnecessary pain. But at the same time, if we both feel the same way about each other, is it right to just give up on the possibility of true love that easily? Also, I try to be completely honest with everyone, doubly so for people I care about, so I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't fess up to Ed about how I feel anyway and leave the class quietly to keep the drama to an absolute minimum. That would be really sad because most of those guys are like brothers to me and I really like training with them, but I would do it if it would save everyone a lot of trouble and tension in the end.

Any ideas?

Serpentine
2007-09-12, 03:32 AM
You guys are forgetting the most important cliche!
1.flowers
2.chocolates
3.promises you dont intend to keep
Someone's been watching Beauty and the Beast! :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

Vampiric
2007-09-12, 06:06 AM
If anyone is curious as to the conclusion of my little Russian drama, it seems that Sasha no longer has even the slightest interest in speaking to me again. Now the messages I send aren't returned. And how can I ask for help with that? Should I break down his doors with a battle-axe? Maybe so! Maybe he is like a woman, waiting for me to drag him away from his mother by his hair. But no, I haven't heard from him in weeks, maybe a month, or who knows. It's just me and Stolichnaya ... ah, Sashenka, ya vse-taki lyublyu ... Sashechka ... Pushok ... Podarok ...

I will end him and all he loves.

*sigh* No, I don't even feel vengeful. Especially since I somehow feel that it was his heart who I broke and not the other way around. I'm only ashamed for my pride that he'll leave with such a memory of me. In time, it'll eat away his idea of my goodness. Soon he'll have only contempt for me and another tale of how life tortures him so. He'll milk The Story of the Bastard Who Destroyed My Life for decades afterwards, I'm sure. And he'll glow with self-admiration when everyone congratulates him for leaving such a clod. And what about me, what about me? Do I not deserve love? Certainly, I don't. What an inhuman being I must be, if I belong among the ranks of creatures so low as to not deserve love. Feh. So, that's the end of that. I have no strings left in this world, not even the slightest, except my little brother Aleksander, the light of my life, who has reached the age where I could gladly **** off all the way to the tigers. Therefore, I've signed up to get my GED and after that I'll join the Peace Corps.

Woah! Slow down, rubakhin. First paragraph, okay. Second paragraph - that's a large jump from reason to conclusion...

First off. Your messages. Letters? text messages? Emails? All, or just one? Is it possible that Sasha isn't able to get to anything before his mother checks it? From what you told us before, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. Second - if you love him, don't give up on him so easily. Third, how do you feel you broke his heart? I know that you are a poet and a writer (you said before), and I'm also aware that sometimes people who put their emotions into words (I'm a musician, so it goes into music) also sometimes write things like your second paragraph, because you are hurt, and lost? What is a GED? I get the feeling that it's some sort of military training. Stop there. If Sasha does actually love you, then I think that he'll probably have something to say about it. So, tell him. In person. Cancel your 'signing up' until after you've told him, if necessary. But do it. Don't rush headlong into something that seems, to me, like it's on a whim. It looks to me like you feel that you have no choices left. There is always a choice. Seriously.
(Read the Sword of Truth series:smallsmile:)

I believe that you need to think about where you want to go with this, rather than backing yourself into a corner...


Sashenka, ya vse-taki lyublyu ... Sashechka ... Pushok ... Podarok ...

Can you write that bit in cyrillic?:smallsmile:

Lilly
2007-09-12, 07:00 AM
A GED is a high school equilivency test. You can take it to show that you have the same level of intelligence and/or education as someone who graduated from high school. So him getting that is a good thing.

Zeb The Troll
2007-09-12, 08:43 AM
Sashenka, ya vse-taki lyublyu ... Sashechka ... Pushok ... Podarok ...
Can you write that bit in cyrillic?:smallsmile:

Сашенка, Я все-таки люблю ... Сашечка ... Пушок ... Подарок ...

rubakhin
2007-09-12, 09:00 AM
First off. Your messages. Letters? text messages? Emails? All, or just one? Is it possible that Sasha isn't able to get to anything before his mother checks it? From what you told us before, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

All. I sent him something on the 24th. He didn't reply. So I sent him something more on the 4th, no reply. The last thing he wrote to me was "I don't wish to speak a word to you again" but in the middle of a lot of confusing dramatic stuff. In context it was "I don't want to speak to you again, but I do want to hold you, kiss you." I think that literally means he doesn't want to see me at all unless I'm lying there in bed, unmoving and untalking, like a teddy bear. (He's pathologically emotionally needy and this would not be out of question for him. Once he actually traded drugs not for sex, but for the girl to lie there in bed with him holding him for an hour.) I really think he's made a decision to end it and hasn't got backbone to tell me straight-up.

However, when I'm not around him, he does have a tendency to go for days and days. But he never out-and-out ignores me like that.


Second - if you love him, don't give up on him so easily.

Which brings me to my next point. Do I myself want to end it? Right now, the only thing I can do for myself emotionally or mentally is something drastic. I need to get out of this environment right now. (Also, all of you have no idea how tiny my world is right now, how few my options, and I don't want to have to justify how I came to this decision to people who won't be able to understand without a novella-sized explanation of my background. So don't tell me I simply must have options beyond leaving, I don't want to hear it. Pretend I'm a battered woman or something. It's not far from the truth. I need to leave this place or I am, quite literally and in all of the senses, going to go insane and probably commit suicide.) The way the situation is now, I don't have the means to do it any other way besides joining the Peace Corps or army. Possibly going to live for a while with one of my grandes soeurs in Mexico or Scotland respectively, or convincing my cousin Zosia to let me look after her apartment in Poland. (Is there any other way I get anywhere, ideally overseas, for free in exchange for some kind of work?)

But under the best of conditions, do I want to stay with him? I don't know. The drive to get out of here, the sheer power of it, it overshadows everything emotionally and mentally in my life. I can't possibly untangle any of my emotions from that drive. But I feel like ... like it's a case of pride now. That I want to show to him I'm a good person before I leave him; so that he doesn't remember me in disgust.


Third, how do you feel you broke his heart?

I ... don't want to say that my actions weren't my fault, nor that they weren't unexcusable, but, the circumstances ... well, the circumstances made the consequences nearly unavoidable. This is dark, and might be a trigger for some people, so I'm spoiler-cutting it.


I supposed at some point I'd have to mention this, so I might as well tell it in the most straightforward way possible: I was abusing him emotionally, sometimes physically, for the last six months of our relationship. Don't get me wrong, he's quite right in leaving me and Marina is quite right in preventing me from seeing her son.

I had no idea ... when I met him, I had gotten over pretty much all of the mental problems of my childhood and early-to-mid teens, as well as the smallness of my world: I compared it to a monastery. I was living a very peaceful life, a happy life - no, a joyful life. When I met him, I was so good, so kind. I loved everything, loved everyone. There was no extreme of compassion that I wouldn't go to. I would be a saint; I would have been a saint if what had happened to me didn't happen. I was raped when I was three years old. Violently. My parents didn't care, did nothing to stop it and didn't get me any form of mental help. They were also abusive and controlling: I never got the chance to unlearn what I learned about human beings at the hands of my rapist. I was never loved by anyone in my life before Sasha, except my kid brother.

I repressed it very well, however, and it wasn't until we started sleeping together that I remembered it. And ... well. Après ce, le déluge. Suddenly, all of the possible emotional and mental consequences of rape, and one of the most severe forms of rape imaginable, just ... appeared. Out of nowhere. We had no car, what with Marina throwing me out every five minutes I had no coherent address, and no money. I couldn't get the psychological help that I needed. I started drinking, dangerous sexual behavior, dangerous behavior in general, abusing drugs and abusing Sasha. I was angry - unbelievably angry - before I met Sasha I literally did not believe I was capable of hating anyone, I was a saint, a true saint - but after it I was uncontrollably angry all of the time. And, on top of that, now completely, totally obsessed with power and control. Absolutely every element of our relationship was twisted and redefined by a crazy mind that now saw everything in the world in the black-and-white terms of domination and submission. Because of my past, and circumstances, I felt he was clearly the dominant one: and because of this, although he treated me unbelievably well, I felt trapped, violated, objectified, kept like an animal in a cage. And, on some level, because sleeping with him was what originally caused me to flashback, I think on some level my subconsciousness identified him as my rapist ... so I did what I could to retaliate. I wouldn't myself hurt him physically, but I couldn't help - I mean I literally could not control the things I said whenever he triggered he somehow - I tried to tear him apart emotionally and mentally. Those were horrible times. Every third thought I had was of suicide. Finally things got so bad that I even hit him once. I was so horrified that I hit him. The night I hit him, I ran outside looking for heroin, because only on drugs was I pacified enough to love him freely, unconditionally, without hatred, the way I had for the first three weeks of our relationship. I didn't take the drugs because I wanted to get rid of the pain. The pain I could handle. I only wanted to be kind to him again. Every time we slept together I had to take drugs first to make it okay for me. When I passed the hospital which is in the ghetto, my heart suddenly broke entirely and I checked myself into St. Raphael's, tried to have myself incarcarated in an insane asylum forever, so that I couldn't hurt him anymore.

There they got me almost-free outpatient mental help, but because no car, no stable address, no money etc. I couldn't go. After my first suicide attempt I also got almost-free mental help, and managed to go to a few sessions, but free mental help is bad mental help (psychologist was a student idiot). Moreover, my family and myself stopped being able to pay the 20-dollar co-pay, until finally I was only going to one session a month and then even that had to stop altogether.

During the months we've been apart, I finally came to my senses and realized that I couldn't use what had happened to me as an excuse to hurt people. I decided that probably there wouldn't be any problems if I went back to him. But I worry that it's just because Sasha's not around and I don't feel threatened anymore. He said, "You're not the person I fell in love with anymore" ... this hurt me more than anything else. I feel dehumanized all over again, that my personality and mind should disappear so completely because of what was done to me. And also because, what, this will happen again every time I fall in love? Will I just turn into a monster and make them hate me again? I feel like the dehumanization never stops. And now, because I'm just that inhuman, I should be shunned, I'm a pariah, I know I deserve it, but suddenly I have the hatred of everyone around me, everyone's forcing Sasha to abandon me. None of this ever would have happened if I hadn't gotten raped. I wouldn't be such a bad person. I hate that most - that they took away everything, my chances of ever being happy or being loved, even my moral character.


I know I need help, but I just cannot in any way, shape, or form get it right now. I'm up to my neck in medical bills because I was in mental institutions twice following suicide attempts. (Fortunately, because I own nothing - only a few books and a few clothes - there's nothing collections can take from me. Unless there are debtor's prisons in America.) I don't have and can't get insurance. And I've been trying for months to get a job. If I manage to get one, it will almost certainly be more months from now. It might even be better that I have no job, because then I'll have upwards of 30,000 dollars worth of bills to pay and no compelling reason why I can't.


Can you write that bit in cyrillic?

Certainly. (Will also, by the way, try not to let slip random bursts of Russian in the future.) Сашенка, а бсе-таки люблю ... Сашечка ... Пушок ... Подарок ...

Brickwall
2007-09-12, 09:54 AM
*very long question about martial arts instructors and whatnot*

1. Is there a significant age difference at all between you? It sounds like there isn't, but if there is, don't go for it.

2. Actually, you know what? I really just wouldn't go for it at all. I can't imagine it going well. I think it might be a crush, just not the kind you're used to. Crushes vary greatly.

Rykaj
2007-09-12, 10:19 AM
In response to the Kung Fu problem

Have you considered the possibility that you might be in love just because he is unreachable and forbidden? It happens quite often in fact. If I were you I wouldn't act on it, chances are all three of you will get burned. Just wait and see if the infatuation settles. If not, explain again here I guess, there are a lot of people with great advice here.

Scorpina
2007-09-12, 10:19 AM
I have to disagree with Brickwall. I don't think that an age difference (assuming you're both consenting adults) is a serious problem at all.

Charity
2007-09-12, 10:30 AM
I have to disagree with Brickwall. I don't think that an age difference (assuming you're both consenting adults) is a serious problem at all.

Well one should of course apply the standerd creepiness rule (http://xkcd.com/314/):smallsmile: there is no need to point out that it doesn't work out below the age of 13, it after all a joke.
Though I do in truth agree with you here Scorpina.

Amotis
2007-09-12, 10:32 AM
Amotis wants a shota of his own. :smallamused:

(juuust kidding. the fbi can stop watching now. please. you guys double park the van in front of my car.)

Brickwall
2007-09-12, 10:34 AM
I have to disagree with Brickwall. I don't think that an age difference (assuming you're both consenting adults) is a serious problem at all.

Because a 26 year old dating a Mr. Miyagi-age guy doesn't seem like a serious problem.

Also, you're making the assumption that Youngblood is an adult, and there's no good reason to assume that in a forum half populated by those under 18.

P.S. Amotis...ew.

Swedish chef
2007-09-12, 10:46 AM
Because a 26 year old dating a Mr. Miyagi-age guy doesn't seem like a serious problem.


While people might raise an eyebrow to a 26 yo girl dating "Mr Miyagi" they would hardly care about a 26 yo guy dating "Mrs Miyagi". There are a lot of prejudice towards younger girls dating older men and older men who date younger girls. I agree with the "as long as they are both consenting adults" line there. No one cares about older women dating younger men and so on. That is usually seen as something possitive.

Scorpina
2007-09-12, 10:53 AM
Well one should of course apply the standerd creepiness rule (http://xkcd.com/314/):smallsmile: there is no need to point out that it doesn't work out below the age of 13, it after all a joke.
Though I do in truth agree with you here Scorpina.

I disagree with that rule. I dated a guy in his early thirties when I was 16/17, and that wasn't a problem.

Charity
2007-09-12, 10:57 AM
I was agreeing with you missus, sheesh.

I was just posting the link for comedy value, these northerners ain't got no sense of humour. *rolly eyes smiley that I can't be bothered to find*

Scorpina
2007-09-12, 10:59 AM
...I'm not big on being called 'missus' either. :smalltongue:

sktarq
2007-09-12, 11:00 AM
So obviously you should understand the difference between memory systems, communication methods, perceptions, etc. And if you do, then we have no argument.

And what happened to your spelling? It seemed fine a post or two ago. :smallconfused:

The issue is A those differences are averages that while they hold up statistically over time can't be called the domain of either gender (with a few rare exceptions), B many of those differences are highly analagous but tied to different situation and vocab, and C the original point of contention (keeping off hand remarks for later use in arguments) is one where I could find no gender link...lawyers use this all the time.
As for the spelling it happens when I multitask. I really am a truely horrid speller so I need to be paying attention if I want to get it even close to right.


and to get back on topic: That idea of age differences is pretty odd in my opinion is a load of phooee. When my parents got together my mom was 19 and my father was 45 (I was born 5 years later) and they are still totally head over heals 30 on. They suffered a slight social judgement early on but after not much

Brickwall
2007-09-12, 11:02 AM
While people might raise an eyebrow to a 26 yo girl dating "Mr Miyagi" they would hardly care about a 26 yo guy dating "Mrs Miyagi".

Umm...actually, I would consider that more creepy. :smalleek:

Then again, one of my friends had a grandmother who would pinch all [friend's] boyfriends' hindquarters.

Apparently I'm the only one who finds that significant age difference makes things creepy and/or otherwise not ideal?

Syka
2007-09-12, 11:02 AM
Out of curiosity, didn't your parent's question that relationship at all? oO Just curious, 'cause I know my mom would have probably thrown a fit.

I don't think I could date more than a year or two younger than me, and even that is iffy. It's not the "creepy" factor as much as a maturity factor. Plus I seem to be going progressively older in the guys I date...First it was a guy a year younger than I, then a year older, and now two years older.

Well...At least they seem to be getting more mature. ;)

Cheers,
Syka

Scorpina
2007-09-12, 11:10 AM
Out of curiosity, didn't your parent's question that relationship at all? oO Just curious, 'cause I know my mom would have probably thrown a fit.

They did ask questions, but they were okay with it, being open minded people.

ocato
2007-09-12, 11:18 AM
Age differences have a double standard. An 18 year old girl dating a 26 year old man who is intelligent and attractive might cause some alert on the 'creepy' scene, but if an 18 year old boy dated a pretty, smart 26 year old woman, maybe his mother would object, but everyone else would be pretty impressed with him for attracting an older lady with his maturity (also for the secret thought all young men have, and that is that slightly older ladies know stuff about stuff and are therefore t3h hawt).

Brickwall
2007-09-12, 11:28 AM
Age differences have a double standard. An 18 year old girl dating a 26 year old man who is intelligent and attractive might cause some alert on the 'creepy' scene, but if an 18 year old boy dated a pretty, smart 26 year old woman, maybe his mother would object, but everyone else would be pretty impressed with him for attracting an older lady with his maturity (also for the secret thought all young men have, and that is that slightly older ladies know stuff about stuff and are therefore t3h hawt).

Stop assuming this, you ignorant lot! I've been saying it's creepy either way! Either way! Gender no matter!

Syka
2007-09-12, 11:40 AM
Yah, I pretty much have the same reaction to an age gap regardless of gender. If I learn, however, that both parties are mature, etc, etc, etc than go for it. But I'll still have the knee jerk reaction of "Ew?"

Cheers,
Syka

BlackStaticWolf
2007-09-12, 11:45 AM
Yah, I pretty much have the same reaction to an age gap regardless of gender. If I learn, however, that both parties are mature, etc, etc, etc than go for it. But I'll still have the knee jerk reaction of "Ew?"

Yeah, same here. Gender is irrelevant. However, the gap is allowed to be bigger the older both parties are... I think 25 and 15 is creepy, but I think 35 and 25 is fine.

MandibleBones
2007-09-12, 11:47 AM
Taking an alternate position here, I don't think that an 18/26 age gap is all that creepy. Annoying, especially for the other 18-year-olds, but not creepy.

After all, society says we can make our own decisions at 18 - and in the long run, 8 years isn't all that bad.

It's when I see people with 12, 18, and 20-something-year age differences that I just don't "get" it. The 24-year-old man with the 50-year-old woman, or the 18-year-old girl with the 36-year-old man - these are confusing to me.

I mean, you didn't even watch RERUNS of the same cartoons as a kid. I just don't get it.

Three, maybe four years in either direction is the max I'll go, for that matter - it's just a little too disorienting any other way.

Scorpina
2007-09-12, 11:48 AM
Yeah, same here. Gender is irrelevant. However, the gap is allowed to be bigger the older both parties are... I think 25 and 15 is creepy, but I think 35 and 25 is fine.

Which seems weird to me, beause that could be the exact same relationship ten years later. :smallconfused:

eidreff
2007-09-12, 12:00 PM
Which seems weird to me, beause that could be the exact same relationship ten years later. :smallconfused:

don't agree completely, gotta take into account that people get more mature as they age. a 25 yr old is going to be a bit wiser than a 15 yr old, and a 35 year old wiser still, you'd hope. i think that each situation need to be looked at on its own, it's too easy to make judgements about people without seeing their perspective.

One of my best mates went out with a girl 16 years younger (he was 40 she was 24) both adults, both with a lot in common, five years on he still acts more like he's still in his twenties!

Sir_Norbert
2007-09-12, 01:24 PM
I think that each situation need to be looked at on its own, it's too easy to make judgements about people without seeing their perspective.
I agree entirely, which is why I think it's a bit silly to throw a lot of numbers around without reflecting on no two people and no two cases are the same.

The word "creepy" has come up a lot, and I don't like that. What is creepy is older guys chatting up younger girls because they want to use them for sex. But if that's not what's going on, if two people are genuinely in love with each other, isn't that a completely different story? Certainly, there's a maturity level below which the concept of "genuinely in love" doesn't apply, and so if you have an adult dating, for instance, a 14-year-old, that is pretty creepy, because that's taking advantage of his/her immature feelings.

But 18 and 26, just to quote the same figures others have been using as an example? Entirely different story. Earlier this year before I got together with my current girlfriend I was passionately in love with a 17-year-old girl (I'm 24) so that's nearly the same age difference. She didn't reciprocate, of course, but supposing she had, we could easily have become a couple, and I really don't see what's wrong with that -- she's old enough to know whether that's what she wants or not. People are different. Some are attracted to younger people; others to older people.

Which is why what ocato said --

for the secret thought all young men have, and that is that slightly older ladies know stuff about stuff and are therefore t3h hawt).
-- is a load of rubbish. I'm sure many young men have that thought, but others (and I'm one of them) find slightly younger girls attractive and count it as a plus if they have less experience so you can learn together without either of you being at a disadvantage. And please don't patronise me by telling me that I "secretly" think the opposite of what I'm saying; I'm really not in the mood for that right now.

ocato
2007-09-12, 02:16 PM
If 't3h hawt' was too subtle, I was mostly poking fun at the idea. Please don't get offended.

FdL
2007-09-12, 02:48 PM
Well regarding the age thing, I really think that in normal situations it should be no problem. It's not a problem for me, though I understand it could be for some people (generally those outside the relationship, duh).

I think it's a sociocultural thing, as the Swedish Chef points out, it's probably not the same with women that for guys. That goes to show that is based on prejudice and broad assumptions and other BS.

I think that love is more likely to happen to people who have things in common, be it intellectual interests, emotional compatibility or sexual attraction. That's why we tend to relate to people of a similar age, more or less. But people cannot be pigeonholed and computer-classified according to age, nor can relationships.

So my view is that if something as wonderful as true love actually happens between two people, trivial statistics like age shouldn't be an obstacle.


While people might raise an eyebrow to a 26 yo girl dating "Mr Miyagi" they would hardly care about a 26 yo guy dating "Mrs Miyagi".

*merrily hums "Mrs. Robinson" while he types, cuts, pastes*



I was just posting the link for comedy value, these northerners ain't got no sense of humour. *rolly eyes smiley that I can't be bothered to find*

Look at my sig and save it :p

FdL: Spreading sarcasm since 1991 ^^

(Syka, is it just me or you seem to reply to particular posts without quoting them? :p It's funny how all your posts seem out of the blue at first but then I get who you're replying to ^^ So either I'm missing something or my browser is not working properly :))

@Brickwall: No, I don't agree with you, sorry. I don't find it creepy with either gender option. And it's true that for most people there is a different of perception within that variable.

(keeps reading)

People, the key concept here is that people don't necessarily "act their age". Whatever that means, because though our society has strict standards of life achievements, behaviour and intellectual capacity according to passage of time, people are different and mature differently. It can even be part of the personality.

I've always been old, I was old as a teenager. I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now ^^

Hoggy
2007-09-12, 03:46 PM
Not a woe, or an advice, but a comment. Actually taken from the wealth of smut, flirting, bad taste jokes and other stuff on Hoggy's phone inbox. Got a funny text today, that reads as thus:


Hi George, this is <name deleted> at work! I was wonderin if you fancied meetin up with my daughter, <name deleted>, she saw u leavin last sat, n wanted 2 no who u were? She's comin down cob next sat eve! Wat u think? Tb, Luv <name deleted> x

Naturally, me being me, I agreed. Probably the closest thing to a blind date I've ever been on. Should be interesting.

There's hope for us all.

Youngblood
2007-09-12, 04:29 PM
As for the age thing, I'll be 22 in two weeks and Ed just recently turned 27, so it's not that much of an age difference. But on that vein, I think love has more to do with mental and spiritual age than physical age, one of the best relationships I've ever seen had a 20 year age gap. I've considered whether or not my issue is just a crush or an infatuation, but my past crushes tend to last about a week or two at the very most and I've been chewing this problem over for about 4 months now. I guess I've always thought of a crush as something you have on someone you don't know very well yet, then when you get to know them on a deeper level and find out who they really are on the inside, something real can develop or not.

Thanks to the people who responded, though. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do about all of this, but it helps a little just to put it into words.

Zeb The Troll
2007-09-12, 04:58 PM
It's funny. According to that xkcd comic I just barely averted the Creepiness. The math would make 25 my lower limit and Alarra is 26. Truth be told though, I had to convince myself that it was okay to approach her. See, I have my own little equation that I use as a baseline for "acceptable for Zeb to date".

Given -
Zeb's Age = Z
Belethorien's Age = B
Lower Limit = L

Z-((Z-B)/2) = L

With that... 36-((36-19)/2) = 27

Reason: I thought it would be uncomfortable for both me and Bele if I dated someone who was closer to her age than mine. Especially now that Bele has her own gamer spawn which would make anyone I date have the potential of being Grandma at a MUCH younger age than they anticipated.

Point: While I can understand an age difference on a case by case basis, in general, my first reaction to a significant age gap in either direction would be :smallconfused: . While Bele was in school, a difference of more than about a year would have raised HUGE alarm bells with me. Sue me. Regardless of my views on adult relationships, I cringe when a minor gets involved with someone significantly older. She's married now, but if she were still in the market for a beau, I'd still have a problem with someone closer to my age than hers.

Conclusion: I don't think that a concern about an age gap is "all phooey". I don't think it needs to be a deal breaker, but I don't think it's something that should be overlooked entirely. The younger the younger party is, the more I think it needs to be taken into consideration. There is a HUGE difference between a 15 year old dating a 25 year old and a 25 year old dating a 35 year old. Huge. A 15 year old is still going through the throws of hormones in flux and is dealing with school age things. A 25 year old is more likely to be settled with who they are, finished schooling and undergrad, and has been out in the real world out from under mommy's and daddy's protective care for at least a little while. It's NOT a static comparison.

ForzaFiori
2007-09-12, 07:40 PM
I tend to make my age range fairly simple.

If they're in the same type of school as me (currently, High School) then they're ok.

although, that does not mean in the least that I would pass up dating a college chick.

more like i doubt it will happen.

BlackStaticWolf
2007-09-12, 07:59 PM
Conclusion: I don't think that a concern about an age gap is "all phooey". I don't think it needs to be a deal breaker, but I don't think it's something that should be overlooked entirely. The younger the younger party is, the more I think it needs to be taken into consideration. There is a HUGE difference between a 15 year old dating a 25 year old and a 25 year old dating a 35 year old. Huge. A 15 year old is still going through the throws of hormones in flux and is dealing with school age things. A 25 year old is more likely to be settled with who they are, finished schooling and undergrad, and has been out in the real world out from under mommy's and daddy's protective care for at least a little while. It's NOT a static comparison.

That is exactly what I mean. Thank you for being eloquent. :smallwink:

Midnight Son
2007-09-12, 09:24 PM
That is exactly what I mean. Thank you for being eloquent. :smallwink:
Dem trolls be learnin' de grammerz and de speechings.

I have maintained that age difference is not so important as having a compatability of spirit. I have dated older women(when I was much younger) and also dated women quite a bit younger than me. I dated a high school senior when I was 25. My last girlfriend was 10 years my junior.

Vuzzmop
2007-09-12, 11:16 PM
Sorry about the whole bitter "poetry is bad for the ego" thing before, I was having a bad day. That said, the day itself is kind of appropriate in this thread. See I go to this theatre company, right? And there's this girl there who I have wanted to ask out for, oh, lets say the last year, but who treats me as nothing but a casual acquaintance, mostly due to the limited amount of time we spend together. When we do speak, it seems like we're on the same wavelength, but nothing more. I'm hopeless with anything of this sort, so I'm sure nothing will happen, but it just bugs me that I see her every week, and do nothing about it. I'm pathetic that way.:smallfrown: . I'm not really looking for a way to get her to go out with me so much as a way to make her think of me as a friend, rather than "that guy at the theatre co".

Midnight Son
2007-09-12, 11:20 PM
Want her to think of you as a friend? Confess your undying love for her. (always seems to do it for me):smallsigh:

Sorry, I'm feeling a bit bitter myself today.

Serpentine
2007-09-12, 11:46 PM
Not a woe, or an advice, but a comment. Actually taken from the wealth of smut, flirting, bad taste jokes and other stuff on Hoggy's phone inbox. Got a funny text today, that reads as thus:



Naturally, me being me, I agreed. Probably the closest thing to a blind date I've ever been on. Should be interesting.

There's hope for us all.
Yay Hoggy! Hope you have fun.

ocato
2007-09-12, 11:47 PM
I randomly met a girl, we hung out, and then came back to my place to watch a video. She didn't like it, we didn't really have anything in common, and nothing really came of it.

This is the dating highlight of the last year and a half of my life, and I'm pretty happy about it. Gotta brush out the cobwebs and check the motor oil.

Vuzzmop
2007-09-12, 11:48 PM
Midnight Son, S'all good. I don't think she would take me saying that I had feelings for her very well. I'd like to say there are plenty more fish in the CBD, but it's never been that way with me, so I'm trying to hold on to what little I have. I'd ask her to go to a dance with me, or hang out at school, but I go to the boys school, she goes to the girls, with no dances held in fifth form, so both are out of the question. Bugger.

FdL
2007-09-13, 06:22 AM
Want her to think of you as a friend? Confess your undying love for her. (always seems to do it for me):smallsigh:


Yup. Never fails. Even with a lesser expression of love you can get the same results.



Sorry, I'm feeling a bit bitter myself today.

I understand your feelings. I hope they pass soon and you feel better.

Dragonrider
2007-09-13, 10:31 AM
On the age difference thing...my aunt is 40, her husband is 51, my grandmother is 62 - so my uncle is 11 years older than his wife and 11 years younger than his mother-in-law. Fortunately he looks much younger than he is so most people never guess about the age gap.

My parents have 4 months' difference (dad is older); they went to the same high school and met in band the first week. :smallbiggrin: their 17th anniversary is on Saturday (they were married 8 years to the day after they met).

to add my 2c to the current conversation...I try to look at it this way... "friends" is better than "You love me? get the hell out of my life, I never want to see you again!"

At least, for me. :smalltongue:

Brickwall
2007-09-13, 11:14 AM
to add my 2c to the current conversation...I try to look at it this way... "friends" is better than "You love me? get the hell out of my life, I never want to see you again!"

At least, for me. :smalltongue:

Except for the fact that the former is often just a euphemism for the latter. not always, not even usually, but often.

Scorpina
2007-09-13, 11:21 AM
Mmm, "I want to be friends" is definately better than that. It's also better than "No, you don't." I still feel mean for saying that in high school....

MandibleBones
2007-09-13, 12:12 PM
to add my 2c to the current conversation...I try to look at it this way... "friends" is better than "You love me? get the hell out of my life, I never want to see you again!"

It would be if everyone in the situation were mature enough to make that distinction. Most guys (I've been guilty of it before, though I'd like to think I've grown a bit since then) take "Friends" to mean "Not right now, but feel free to pine away for the next X years."

Which, as you can imagine, gets ugly.

FdL
2007-09-13, 01:46 PM
Except for the fact that the former is often just a euphemism for the latter. not always, not even usually, but often.

Yeah, too often IMHO. Because it must feel bad for some people to tell things straight, caring about other's feelings. Which is ok, but in those situations I feel it's better to be totally honest. It's the exact moment to be sincere and to show what you really feel. At least I prefer it that way.

Last girl I asked out actually told me she was "kinda seeing someone", when not much later I found out she's not. Coward :smallconfused:
Oh, she also made a comment about me asking her to a girl who I often talk to. That was weird and maybe warrants me trying again, because she told her that she had turned me down because we work at the same place (which is BS because we seldom see each other if we don't go to each other's office).

Also sometimes "friends" means "I kinda like you but I'm not willing to give you a chance".


Mmm, "I want to be friends" is definately better than that. It's also better than "No, you don't." I still feel mean for saying that in high school....

"No, you don't" what?

I once told a girl I loved her and I got "No, you don't love me. You think you love me but you don't" :S :S :S
How can you argue with a telepath or something? :s Jeez...

Alarra
2007-09-13, 01:49 PM
Love her.

as in, conversation:
Him: I love you so much!
Her: No you don't.

Skippy
2007-09-13, 01:54 PM
Love her.

as in, conversation:
Him: I love you so much!
Her: No you don't.

No, I don't think she refered to that. She was saying something more like:

He: I like you
She: I'd prefer if we're just friends
He: No, you don't

I see the "we should only be friends" as a big barrier. In my little experience, staying "as friends" means "as far away from each other as possible", so it doesn't really means to stay "as friends", because usually friends are close.

Scorpina
2007-09-13, 01:57 PM
Alarra's got the conversation pretty much verbatim, there...

Skippy
2007-09-13, 01:58 PM
Oh, OK. I got it wrong then... :P

I needs a translater

FdL
2007-09-13, 02:00 PM
Sorry, I did a simu-time-ninja attack on my last post. A little vice of mine, retconning.


No, I don't think she refered to that. She was saying something more like:

He: I like you
She: I'd prefer if we're just friends
He: No, you don't


Yeah, I understand what Scorp said more as this than "no, you don't love me".



I see the "we should only be friends" as a big barrier. In my little experience, staying "as friends" means "as far away from each other as possible", so it doesn't really means to stay "as friends", because usually friends are close.

Yup. But thread regulars already know what my position is about this subject.

Edit: My timing is so off.

Skippy
2007-09-13, 02:05 PM
My timing is so off.

Happens to all of us... I have never been told "No, you don't", but just to think about it makes me feel sad... Aw well... My problem is not telling things in time, so obviously my case is that no one says anything to me... Because I never told anything. I gotta work on that, but now I need to introduce the "No, you don't" scenario. Never thought of it.

FdL
2007-09-13, 02:12 PM
Happens to all of us... I have never been told "No, you don't", but just to think about it makes me feel sad... Aw well... My problem is not telling things in time, so obviously my case is that no one says anything to me... Because I never told anything. I gotta work on that, but now I need to introduce the "No, you don't" scenario. Never thought of it.

Aw...Sorry to have added to your insecurities :s But it can happen, you know. This was the tomboyish girl I was friends with for years while secretly in love with her. It all lasted more than it should have (after my confessionS and retries), but ended pretty bad, because as a way of protecting my feelings I decided to stop talking to her. And then we never got back to being friends...Well, from my experience I just couldn't, that's why I did what I did. Also, because it was too painful not to. :(

Skippy
2007-09-13, 02:19 PM
Aw...Sorry to have added to your insecurities :s But it can happen, you know. This was the tomboyish girl I was friends with for years while secretly in love with her. It all lasted more than it should have (after my confessionS and retries), but ended pretty bad, because as a way of protecting my feelings I decided to stop talking to her. And then we never got back to being friends...Well, from my experience I just couldn't, that's why I did what I did. Also, because it was too painful not to. :(

No problem. Currently I've got no one in my mind so I've got no problems, and it's not like adding to my insecurities because it may help me give a safer step next time it's needed. What happened to me was... Oh, I've talked about that girl for ages. Anyway, she's in a town, I moved to another one so... Now I'm sure I won't tell anything idiotic to her again.

ForzaFiori
2007-09-13, 06:21 PM
On the age difference thing...my aunt is 40, her husband is 51, my grandmother is 62 - so my uncle is 11 years older than his wife and 11 years younger than his mother-in-law. Fortunately he looks much younger than he is so most people never guess about the age gap.

My parents have 4 months' difference (dad is older); they went to the same high school and met in band the first week. :smallbiggrin: their 17th anniversary is on Saturday (they were married 8 years to the day after they met).

to add my 2c to the current conversation...I try to look at it this way... "friends" is better than "You love me? get the hell out of my life, I never want to see you again!"

At least, for me. :smalltongue:

I can actually beat you on that.

My dad is 50.
my step-mother is 32 (a 18 yr difference)
I'm 15, my step-sister is 16 (a 17 or 16 yr difference from my step-mom).
my step-grandmother is a little over 60 i believe (a 10-12 yr difference from my dad).
my sister is 21 (an 11 year difference from my step-mom)

my dad married into the wrong generation.
which is kinda good, b/c i didn't wanna be a step-uncle at 12

Dragonrider
2007-09-13, 08:05 PM
Wow, that is really confusing. You ever hear the song "I'm my own grandpa?" :smallamused:


The problem with "just friends" is that unless both parties are interested in working on the friendship, it often just falls apart. I've been lucky and stayed friends (although we don't talk as often as we used to due to the fact that he's no longer my #1 priority) but I can see that it might be hard.

...:smalleek: Holy crap. Just realized I'll see him in a week. And my cousin (his girlfriend now) will be there. Awwwwwwwwkward.....not for him or me so much because we both know how it is, but just because SHE will expect ME to be jealous. She wants me to still like him for the psychological kick she gets out of it...that she has something she thinks I want. :smallannoyed: I'm seeing her THIS weekend too, maybe I'll be able to slip a clear line that I'm over him.

:smalltongue: My mom was joking that I should invent a boyfriend to convince her...HAHAHAHA I wish I had the guts. :smallamused:

Syka
2007-09-13, 08:25 PM
Hehe, as funny as that would be it's probably a baaaad idea. What you should do though, is if she starts needling you about it, give her one of those patronizing type looks and say something like, "I told you we're just friends now." or something...I guess. Something to let her know you aren't pining.

That might actually be one way to find out if she likes him for him, or just because you liked him (my sister had a friend who would go after any guy her friends liked...they learned to keep who they liked quiet...)

Cheers,
Syka

Brickwall
2007-09-13, 08:27 PM
:smalltongue: My mom was joking that I should invent a boyfriend to convince her...HAHAHAHA I wish I had the guts. :smallamused:

[1] had a crush on [2], but when [3], [1]'s cousin, started going out with [2], [1] eventually got over [2]. But now, [3] wants to torment [1] with the new boyfriend, so [1] makes up a Canadian boyfriend.

Does this sound like a bad show script to you?

Fake boyfriends = bad idea. Don't you ever watch TV? :smalltongue:

FdL
2007-09-13, 08:33 PM
The problem with "just friends" is that unless both parties are interested in working on the friendship, it often just falls apart. I've been lucky and stayed friends (although we don't talk as often as we used to due to the fact that he's no longer my #1 priority) but I can see that it might be hard.


Well that's good, but it depends on what you want from the other person and it's limited by how you both can manage your feelings/attraction. Because if it's "friendship as a consolation prize" (it sounds horrible, but you get my meaning), then it's probably not sincere and it could not work...Of course, I value friendship in itself, but I guess it can kinda get mixed up when there's an antecedent of attraction...Dunno.



...:smalleek: Holy crap. Just realized I'll see him in a week. And my cousin (his girlfriend now) will be there. Awwwwwwwwkward.....not for him or me so much because we both know how it is, but just because SHE will expect ME to be jealous. She wants me to still like him for the psychological kick she gets out of it...that she has something she thinks I want. :smallannoyed: I'm seeing her THIS weekend too, maybe I'll be able to slip a clear line that I'm over him.


Well, try to be as cool as you can and actually it would be a positive thing if you could tell her that you're over him. You'll get it off your chest anyway, I think it'll do you good.

Dragonrider
2007-09-13, 08:59 PM
Yeah, I'm gonna try and get it across to her (in whatever way may prove convenient) that I am over him. The boyfriend thing was a joke, I wouldn't actually..... :smalltongue:

I never know what to expect from her, but I think it'll make things simpler anyway if I make it clear that I'm "done" with him. I told him I was past it and I'm sure it therefore got back to her, but whether she believes it is another matter. In any case, I'm not going to let what she thinks worry me. You know what your mom always tells you (or at least, my mom does)... you can't control anyone but yourself. :smallamused:

FdL
2007-09-13, 09:03 PM
That's the attitude ^^ Go for it, Rider. Also, stand your ground, don't let her intimidate you or act witchy.

zeratul
2007-09-13, 09:11 PM
Your cousin's messing with you? Am I gonna have to fly out there and give her a talking to? Cuz I will.:smalltongue:

Midnight Son
2007-09-13, 09:26 PM
In fact, Dragonrider, I'd be willing to bet that there are a few young men here who would be willing to "stand in" as your boyfriend for this upcoming event.:smallamused:

Hell Puppi
2007-09-13, 09:27 PM
Hehehe she should bring all of them...

ForzaFiori
2007-09-13, 09:55 PM
In fact, Dragonrider, I'd be willing to bet that there are a few young men here who would be willing to "stand in" as your boyfriend for this upcoming event.:smallamused:

I volunteer!

and hey, were about the same age, so it would work!

at least, we are if i read the "shared b-day" thread right. pretty sure we were born in the same year.

Youngblood
2007-09-13, 10:02 PM
Updating from my earlier post, I went ahead and talked to Ed (my martial arts teacher) about having feelings for him and stuff after everyone left practice earlier this evening. It just didn't feel right keeping that back, especially since he's also more or less my best friend. So, I told him, and he said that basically he felt the same way I did. After much discussion, we kind of came to the conclusion that if a relationship did happen, we could be mature enough about it not to let relationship stuff spill over into class stuff, and that most likely the only person in the group that would have a problem with it would be my ex. So, for now, we're going to take it really slow and see how things develop. If it looks like things could get serious, then he'll talk to my ex and try to avert as much of the bad blood as possible.

I feel better in an uppy downy way since I've got it off my chest. Now I'm all pumped because the guy I like likes me and there's at least a chance it could work out, but at the same time I'm terribly, terribly worried. Being in love must be very close to what it feels like to be crazy.

Hell Puppi
2007-09-13, 10:08 PM
Being in love must be very close to what it feels like to be crazy.

In my assessment, yup, pretty much.

FdL
2007-09-13, 10:09 PM
Ok, Skippy hides behind the plant (get a shirt, anyway :p). MS waits in the door with the bike in case someone needs to make a hasty escape. Zeratul and Mf11 will act as the cable repair guys. Brickwall will disguise as his namesake and keep his eyes open. We'll have Youngblood hiding on a tree and use her ninjitsu skills.

I'll be in the Ice Cream van monitoring the whole operation with the assistance of Syka (she's the relationships counselour, have to keep her handy).

Remember, if the girl gets in danger, we all storm the house :smallcool:

Hell Puppi
2007-09-13, 10:15 PM
Now we just need a monkey and a van....

Serpentine
2007-09-13, 10:18 PM
Youngblood: ahhh communication, ain't it grand ^_^ I think it's a good sign for your relationship (whatever that might be) that you can both be front-up about it, discuss the possible implications, and come to a reasonable decision about it. Good luck, I hope it goes well, whatever happens.


An observation. Girls/women (are usually the ones to) read the bodice-rippers. They watch dodgy romantic comedies, they read Jane Austen (a pity it's only them, she's a really good writer, though I'm sure there's a heap of jokes we miss due to time and circumstances), they gossip and pine and talk about "boys!". So... why is it that there seems to be a disproportionate number of guys here angsting over girls and/or relationships? :smallconfused: Is it merely that the above stereotype is false? Do we just not hear about it from the male perspective outside of the 'net because they (maybe) don't have the same sort of social network that's willing to listen as girls do? Or are male geeks more loving (and female's less?) than others? Can anyone shed light on this little quandry?

Brickwall
2007-09-13, 10:18 PM
Why are you involving me in this? I have things to do! Like play Guitar Hero. And...play...Guitar Hero. And pack. Anyway, I have neither interest nor time to watch over little girls!

Serpentine
2007-09-13, 10:20 PM
what about the other day, in the park, with the binoculars?

Midnight Son
2007-09-13, 10:27 PM
An observation. Girls/women (are usually the ones to) read the bodice-rippers. They watch dodgy romantic comedies, they read Jane Austen (a pity it's only them, she's a really good writer, though I'm sure there's a heap of jokes we miss due to time and circumstances), they gossip and pine and talk about "boys!". So... why is it that there seems to be a disproportionate number of guys here angsting over girls and/or relationships? :smallconfused: Is it merely that the above stereotype is false? Do we just not hear about it from the male perspective outside of the 'net because they (maybe) don't have the same sort of social network that's willing to listen as girls do? Or are male geeks more loving (and female's less?) than others? Can anyone shed light on this little quandry?No, the stereotype is just fine, but having relationship issues has nothing to do with whether or not you find Jane Austin fascinating or not. I think it's that there are more men on this site than women. As such, there are more men having relationship woes on this site than women.

Brickwall
2007-09-13, 10:30 PM
what about the other day, in the park, with the binoculars?

...okay, are you trying to imply that I'm some pedophile/stalker, or something?

Alarra
2007-09-13, 10:31 PM
An observation. Girls/women (are usually the ones to) read the bodice-rippers. They watch dodgy romantic comedies, they read Jane Austen (a pity it's only them, she's a really good writer, though I'm sure there's a heap of jokes we miss due to time and circumstances), they gossip and pine and talk about "boys!". So... why is it that there seems to be a disproportionate number of guys here angsting over girls and/or relationships? :smallconfused: Is it merely that the above stereotype is false? Do we just not hear about it from the male perspective outside of the 'net because they (maybe) don't have the same sort of social network that's willing to listen as girls do? Or are male geeks more loving (and female's less?) than others? Can anyone shed light on this little quandry?

First off, there's a disproportionate number of guys on this site in general. I mean, yes, there are a fair number of females, however, the site is still predominantly guys. It is likely that we're hearing more about it because people are more open on the internet in general, less personal, etc. However, I wouldn't make a claim about the lovingness of geeks of either gender based on the above observation. And yes. More guys should read Austen.

Serpentine
2007-09-13, 10:31 PM
Imply? Me?
. ._
m:smallsmile:m

And they were just ideas, not what I actually thought might be the case. Just a numbers thing, you think?

Brickwall
2007-09-13, 10:35 PM
Imply? Me?
._
:smallsmile:

Just remember which of us said that age difference is of no consequence, no matter how large the gap. It was you. Not me.

FdL
2007-09-13, 10:35 PM
@Youngblood: Congratulations. You handled the situation vin a very mature way, which speaks very well of you. I wish you that everything goes well, and I hope you enjoy the great things that are coming your way within the prospect of reciprocated love ^^ I feel happy for you.



An observation. Girls/women (are usually the ones to) read the bodice-rippers. They watch dodgy romantic comedies, they read Jane Austen (a pity it's only them, she's a really good writer, though I'm sure there's a heap of jokes we miss due to time and circumstances), they gossip and pine and talk about "boys!". So... why is it that there seems to be a disproportionate number of guys here angsting over girls and/or relationships? :smallconfused: Is it merely that the above stereotype is false? Do we just not hear about it from the male perspective outside of the 'net because they (maybe) don't have the same sort of social network that's willing to listen as girls do? Or are male geeks more loving (and female's less?) than others? Can anyone shed light on this little quandry?

Interesting. Well, for one I think us guys generally don't have an outlet for these things. I know I don't, but then again I don't have friends with whom I can talk these things freely IRL :S

In general it has to do with the image of men in our society, and this even influences the way we relate to our male friends. As you pointed out, there's no equivalent to romantic literature for men, "that's a girl thing" is what many would tell you. Then again, lately we have seen the rise of what seem to be male ways of attempting to express feelings (that we do have), like emo and the fact that being sensitive is not so frowned upon (this is only a guess)

Then there's this context. This community is great and makes people feel comfortable and allows us to talk in a very relaxed way. The fact that most of us are gamer geek guys also has to have a bearing on this, but I 'm not sure we're more sensitive than other people...Maybe we are.


Why are you involving me in this? I have things to do! Like play Guitar Hero. And...play...Guitar Hero. And pack. Anyway, I have neither interest nor time to watch over little girls!

Okeeyyy then. Just do your thing, I guess that will help too :)

Serpentine
2007-09-13, 10:39 PM
Just remember which of us said that age difference is of no consequence, no matter how large the gap. It was you. Not me.
Actually, I don't believe I got involved in that issue at all (while you bring it up, though, I don't think it's so much "number of years" as "point in life" - a 15 year old highschool student isn't gonna have nearly as much in common with a 24 year old uni student as with a fellow high school student, while a 25 and a 34 year old will be in comparable situations. Personally, I place my limit at my sister: about 6 or 7 years older).

FdL
2007-09-13, 10:42 PM
Makes sense, though I believe in exceptions. I do think the age difference can get bigger when you're older, so, for example for me it would be perfectly normal to date a 20something. But again, it depends on how what you have in common. I think in most aspects regarding maturity I'm not beyond that age anyway.

Brickwall
2007-09-13, 10:44 PM
Maybe I mixed you up with Scorpina. I do that occasionally.

Either way, not something we need to get into here. I hate children in every single way possible, don't you guys worry. So...back on topic, then?

FdL
2007-09-13, 10:47 PM
Yeah. Love is wonderful and women are the most amazing thing on earth ^^

AngelSword
2007-09-13, 10:55 PM
A recent fortune cookie of mine said...
We can admire all we like,
But we can only choose one
Ironically, the "Learn Chinese" on the back said, "Still Single."

A more appropriate fortune for me doesn't exist. :smallsigh:

Dragonrider
2007-09-13, 11:13 PM
Thank you for your support guys. (Except for Brickwall, who has never supported anyone in any obvious way, so I'm not hurt :smallwink:) Hehe, I don't know how my family and friends would handle a bunch of my internet forum geek friends popping out of nowhere to come to my defense! :smallamused: No doubt with great surprise. But the gesture is much appreciated.

@Youngblood...you are a brave soul. I'm glad it worked out for you. :smallsmile:

Logic
2007-09-14, 12:14 AM
Thank you for your support guys. (Except for Brickwall, who has never supported anyone in any obvious way, so I'm not hurt :smallwink:) Hehe, I don't know how my family and friends would handle a bunch of my internet forum geek friends popping out of nowhere to come to my defense! :smallamused: No doubt with great surprise. But the gesture is much appreciated.

@Youngblood...you are a brave soul. I'm glad it worked out for you. :smallsmile:
You wouldn't need us, as your Dragon would be able to help you instead. But the desire to help is still within us!

Syka
2007-09-14, 12:43 AM
...wait, I'm the relationship counselor? Hehe...:smalltongue:

Sorry, nothing constructive to add, and it's nearly two in the am.

Cheers,
Syka

Logic
2007-09-14, 12:47 AM
...wait, I'm the relationship counselor? Hehe...:smalltongue:

Sorry, nothing constructive to add, and it's nearly two in the am.

Cheers,
Syka

Which am? The trans am? Oh noes! This thread is getting more and more random by the minute! [/off topic]

Syka, don't sell yourself short. You have likely responded to more poster's plights than anyone, and have had sound advice to boot. I think you have had the most constructive advice than anyone here.

Holy_Knight
2007-09-14, 12:49 AM
...:smalleek: Holy crap. Just realized I'll see him in a week. And my cousin (his girlfriend now) will be there. Awwwwwwwwkward.....not for him or me so much because we both know how it is, but just because SHE will expect ME to be jealous. She wants me to still like him for the psychological kick she gets out of it...that she has something she thinks I want. :smallannoyed: I'm seeing her THIS weekend too, maybe I'll be able to slip a clear line that I'm over him.
Wow... sounds like your cousin has some growing up to do there. If she does start to grate on you regarding this, it may help you to think how unenviable a position it is to need that kind of twisted validation.


[1] had a crush on [2], but when [3], [1]'s cousin, started going out with [2], [1] eventually got over [2]. But now, [3] wants to torment [1] with the new boyfriend, so [1] makes up a Canadian boyfriend.

Does this sound like a bad show script to you?

Fake boyfriends = bad idea. Don't you ever watch TV? :smalltongue:
Heh. That it does, Brickwall. And if you decide to go through with it anyway, Dragonrider, at the very least don't say his name is "John Glass".


Updating from my earlier post, I went ahead and talked to Ed (my martial arts teacher) about having feelings for him and stuff after everyone left practice earlier this evening. It just didn't feel right keeping that back, especially since he's also more or less my best friend. So, I told him, and he said that basically he felt the same way I did. *snip*
Good luck, Youngblood.



An observation. Girls/women (are usually the ones to) read the bodice-rippers.
Yes, but we men get to be the bodice rippers!

Advantage: Men. :smallbiggrin:



They watch dodgy romantic comedies, they read Jane Austen (a pity it's only them, she's a really good writer, though I'm sure there's a heap of jokes we miss due to time and circumstances), they gossip and pine and talk about "boys!". So... why is it that there seems to be a disproportionate number of guys here angsting over girls and/or relationships? :smallconfused: Is it merely that the above stereotype is false? Do we just not hear about it from the male perspective outside of the 'net because they (maybe) don't have the same sort of social network that's willing to listen as girls do? Or are male geeks more loving (and female's less?) than others? Can anyone shed light on this little quandry?

As for this question...


No, the stereotype is just fine, but having relationship issues has nothing to do with whether or not you find Jane Austin fascinating or not. I think it's that there are more men on this site than women. As such, there are more men having relationship woes on this site than women.


First off, there's a disproportionate number of guys on this site in general. I mean, yes, there are a fair number of females, however, the site is still predominantly guys. It is likely that we're hearing more about it because people are more open on the internet in general, less personal, etc. However, I wouldn't make a claim about the lovingness of geeks of either gender based on the above observation. And yes. More guys should read Austen.

...Midnight Son and Alarra are right, but I think there's probably one other thing influencing this too. In at least one way, dating is easier for girls than for guys--namely, because generally guys are the ones who have to do the initial approach. So if a guy is shy/unsure or otherwise hampered in romantic pursuits, he's very likely going to remain alone and pining, because the responsibility falls upon him to do something about it. Whereas if a girl is shy/unsure etc. she may have guys asking her out anyway, which helps eliminate one source of such problems. So, assuming an equal distribution of those sorts of insecurities, it would make sense that we'd see more guys being angsty over relationships than girls.

Corollary 1: In a different sort of mood, I'd really play this up, with hilariously snarky commentary.

Corollary 2: Girls should take the initiative more often.



As you pointed out, there's no equivalent to romantic literature for men, "that's a girl thing" is what many would tell you.
Actually, there's plenty of romantic literature for men... it just doesn't tell us anything useful! Let's compare and contrast portrayals in print and on screen of feminine and masculine romantic advice:

For Women: How to Find and Keep a Good Man:

--Shared interests are the foundation of a good relationship. So, a good place to meet men is at an activity you enjoy, like at a book club or art opening.

--Learn how to communicate in ways he'll understand, helping him see why something that's not obvious to him is clearly important to you. A lot of times it's not that he didn't care; it's that he didn't realize.

--Some guys seem exciting and flashy, but the idea of being with them is often better than the reality. On the other hand, the friend who has always been there for you shows the kind of caring and dependability that real love is made of.

--Love is hard work, but when two people really care about each other, they can grow together and make each other happy, maturing and changing in that love through all of life's quirks from marriage, to children, to retirement, and so on.

For Men: How to Find and Keep a Good Woman

--Go slay a dragon. Then marry the princess that it captured. If it hadn't captured a princess, the king will give you one of his daughters as a reward. Marry her.

--Get shot through a wormhole into the middle of a spaceship battle, and end up with escaped alien convicts on the run for your life from an insane military commander. Survive a steep learning curve, the constant threat of insanity, frequent attempts on your life by both enemies and friends, and your love interest's initially cold heart, then marry the hardcore commando chick who kicked your ass the first time you met.*

--Go off to save the world from the diabolical machinations of a supervillain. Marry the hot diamond in the rough -or- self-important high society woman you meet along the way, after you've worked through your initial hatred of each other and realized your mutual attraction.

--Once you find the princess/warrior woman/damsel/diamond in the rough etc., and have saved the world/stopped the bad guy/restored peace/etc., "Live Happily Ever After". There's no real "how" involved, the happily living will just sort of happen automatically.




Then there's this context. This community is great and makes people feel comfortable and allows us to talk in a very relaxed way. The fact that most of us are gamer geek guys also has to have a bearing on this, but I 'm not sure we're more sensitive than other people...Maybe we are.
Yes, we do have a very good community here.


Actually, I don't believe I got involved in that issue at all (while you bring it up, though, I don't think it's so much "number of years" as "point in life" - a 15 year old highschool student isn't gonna have nearly as much in common with a 24 year old uni student as with a fellow high school student, while a 25 and a 34 year old will be in comparable situations. Personally, I place my limit at my sister: about 6 or 7 years older).
Ew! I have to say, Serpentine, I don't think you should be dating your sister no matter what the ages are.


Yeah. Love is wonderful and women are the most amazing thing on earth ^^
Women aren't "things", you sexist pig.

Heh, just kidding. I know what you mean. :smalltongue:


*...I wish I could marry a hardcore commando chick... where's a wormhole when you need one?

Syka
2007-09-14, 12:56 AM
It's two in the morning and I STILL got the Farscape reference. :smallbiggrin: Awesomeness.

Cheers,
Syka

rubakhin
2007-09-14, 01:56 AM
View Post
An observation. Girls/women (are usually the ones to) read the bodice-rippers. They watch dodgy romantic comedies, they read Jane Austen (a pity it's only them, she's a really good writer, though I'm sure there's a heap of jokes we miss due to time and circumstances), they gossip and pine and talk about "boys!". So... why is it that there seems to be a disproportionate number of guys here angsting over girls and/or relationships? Is it merely that the above stereotype is false? Do we just not hear about it from the male perspective outside of the 'net because they (maybe) don't have the same sort of social network that's willing to listen as girls do? Or are male geeks more loving (and female's less?) than others? Can anyone shed light on this little quandry?


In the immortal words of August Strindberg: Only men can love, and it blinds them.

Okay, perhaps a debate on the sexes could benefit from a lack of Strindberg. Ahem. In a similar vein, I once spoke to someone with an interesting philosophy. As he put it, "Men think "I love her. Women think "He loves me." In other words, it's men who do all the chasing. And then it's men who do the work to keep the relationship once they've got it. That covers most of the posts here. Actually, the Jane Austen thing is a great example of what I'm talking about. I've heard several women say "I read her because I want to be pursued by someone the same way her characters are pursued."

Feh. Thousands of years of human progress and we're still no better than the elks. It's still men trying to impress women, trying to lure them, and women are still the ones who are won over. Women pine, yes, but they generally don't do anything active to take their mates, not in the way of men. They pine and wait for him to make a move.

But of course there are obvious exceptions. Hopefully more and more of them as time goes on.

Serpentine
2007-09-14, 04:00 AM
Ew! I have to say, Serpentine, I don't think you should be dating your sister no matter what the ages are.
A-ha. A-ha. A-ha.

::points Rubakhin in the direction of Youngblood and women's fashion:: Just because we're not necessarily up-front about it, doesn't mean we're entirely passive. If anything, I think the desire to be pursued probably comes from insecurities about our own worth than an idea that that's the way it should be. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think it's even quite the case that Jane Austen's women are always the chasees... And it's certainly neither fair nor true to say that "it's men who do the work to keep the relationship once they've got it". If that were the case, they'd never work at all - a Relationship is a partnership. If they're not both completely into it, it dies.

rubakhin
2007-09-14, 04:44 AM
::points Rubakhin in the direction of Youngblood and women's fashion:: Just because we're not necessarily up-front about it, doesn't mean we're entirely passive. If anything, I think the desire to be pursued probably comes from insecurities about our own worth than an idea that that's the way it should be. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think it's even quite the case that Jane Austen's women are always the chasees... And it's certainly neither fair nor true to say that "it's men who do the work to keep the relationship once they've got it". If that were the case, they'd never work at all - a Relationship is a partnership. If they're not both completely into it, it dies.


First of all, as long as we're going to be discussing this: But of course there are obvious exceptions; things are changing now; and I'm trying to analyze the stereotypical/historical/traditional/generalized structure of heterosexual relationships, which is not necessarily the same thing as relationships in reality, and certainly not the same thing as every relationship everywhere. Keep in the mind.

Women's fashion is exactly what I'm talking about. It's designed to make someone look desirable, to make men want to approach. Also, remember that we're discussing things in the context of "why aren't women using this advice thread." Women probably aren't going to use this thread for advice on how to attract someone, and generally speaking women don't approach.

As for maintaining a relationship, the stereotype is that men should be thoughtful to women, think of things to do for them like buy flowers, take them out at times. - I've only read maybe the last ten pages of this thread, but most of what I've seen is advice on getting women and advice on how to keep her/do nice things for her. Women traditionally don't really feel the pressure to buy men things and take them places, but this has more to do with women's socio-economic position in the past and is changing now. Even beyond material things, when there are problems, it's still thought of as the man's job to change, is it not? You hear a lot of "men changed by love" and "Women who go with guys trying to change them" ... a lot of jokes about men becoming a girl's dog, giving her everything, doing everything she says. I rarely hear a stereotype of women changing for love. I still think my arguments are valid. Also, again, remember that we're discussing stereotypical/generalized views of relationships in the context of why women aren't using this thread. Nothing more.

Or it could just be that there's less chicks on this forum.

(Regarding Jane Austen, I'm just repeating what I've heard - verbatim, at that. I've only ever read Northanger Abbey. I found the characters unlikeable and the writing smug.)

Serpentine
2007-09-14, 04:58 AM
Hm. Alright, fair enough. Maybe you should stress the generalisation a little more, other wise it looks rather definite :smalltongue: As for Jane Austen, I've only read Pride and Prejudice and Northanger Abbey, and the former is much better than the latter, which I believe was her first book. I liked the first chapter for the obvious parody of the mystery/romance books of the time, but it got pretty dull and annoying after that. So please, don't judge her from that one.

rubakhin
2007-09-14, 05:11 AM
All right - I've been meaning to give her other books a shot anyway. I was rooting through the basement the other day and found an antiquated copy of Pride & Prejudice just rotting away in a box down there. Poor book! Hopefully it won't immediately fall apart upon perusal.

blademaster42
2007-09-14, 06:34 AM
Oogh. okay, so I have a girlfriend for the first time in my life. We've been going out for almost three months, and she still seems to really be into it.

I'm not so sure I am. I care about her, but I'm pretty sure the attraction is mostly physical. She's sort of a punk goth, and I'm apparently staight edge. And we go to different high schools. She has a pair of guys interested in her, and she's apparently not doing much to stop either of them. That bugs me, and I've been doubting the relationship for a while now. I'm thinking of breaking up with her.

I'm not hesitating because I don't have any other prospects (in fact, I'm pretty sure I have several). It's just that there are a few complicating factors.

1. She's bipolar. She takes medication for it, but I think the stress of me breaking up with her might make her do something regrettable.
2. She used to cut herself. which makes me think she might do it again.
3. I don't know how to say it to her. I've never broken up with someone before, and I don't know how to say that I just don't really feel the spark.

Should I break up with her? If I should, what should I say? Little help?

Rykaj
2007-09-14, 06:46 AM
Oh good grief, Jane Austen is the Pride and Prejudice woman? :smalleek:

After having been forced to sit through the entire movie I'm not touching that book with a ten foot pole, or anything else by Jane Austen for that matter. "No way, Mr. Bingley!"

MandibleBones
2007-09-14, 06:51 AM
After having been forced to sit through the entire movie

Which one did you sit through? The newer remake or the BBC Miniseries? 'Cause the miniseries was pretty good and caught my attention (while I doubt the movie would).

Brickwall
2007-09-14, 08:40 AM
@blademaster: Well, it doesn't sound like you really want to stick with her anyway. So I would say "yes" on the breakup.

As for how...well, you can definitely just be angry and insensitive. Or calm and impassive. That's all I really have to say on the subject, since I don't actually bother with this romance crap.

Ichneumon
2007-09-14, 08:46 AM
How do you tell a girl you like her?

banjo1985
2007-09-14, 08:58 AM
Should I break up with her? If I should, what should I say? Little help?

Based on what you've said, yes I think it may be best for the both of you if you do. If you're not sure about it, and she has other guys sniffing around her that she does nothing about, then maybe the best thing is to call it off.

As for how, based on her condition, I would go for the softly softly approach, make it a discussion, you may find out that she feels similar to you and that you can reach something amicable.

Ichy - everyone pretty much says that you should just tell them how you feel, but I would say be more cautious. Maybe it's because of the experiences I've had, but I have to be pretty damn certain I'm not going to get laughed out the room before I say anything. It might be worth testing the water if you can without giving your feelings away. If you're already friends with her it would be easy to throw in a few questions and commenst that would give you an idea of whether your your feelings are reciprocated. If you're not already friends with her then this may be more difficult, I'll admit!

Serpentine
2007-09-14, 09:04 AM
Blademaster, there's no good way to break up with someone. All you can do is try to be honest. As for her health... well, I have no experience in the area, so I can't help you there. Just remember, her mind is not your responsibility. Regarding the interested guys, though, as far as I'm concerned it's only a serious problem if she does anything with it, or possibly if she'd doing it specifically to get at you. If it's just, say, flirting, then I'd be rather hurt if you broke up with me just for that, especially if you couldn't even be bothered telling me it bothered you first - there's a good chance she simply considers it harmless fun and/or friendly joking and has no idea you dislike it.

Ceres
2007-09-14, 09:13 AM
Hurray! I've just entered a serious relationship with the girl of my dreams, and I am madly in love! :smallbiggrin:

Yey her! Yey me! Yey GitP! Yey world!

*floats away on a pink cloud*

Charity
2007-09-14, 09:14 AM
How do you tell a girl you like her?

How mature is she/are you?
If she and you are sensible adults then I would very much advise just tell her.
If you are teenagers... which lets face it you are, I'm reasonably sure, I would take banjo's advice... are we talking about a specific girl here or just girls in general?

Alarra
2007-09-14, 09:14 AM
Should I break up with her? If I should, what should I say? Little help?
First of all, it isn't your responsibility how she reacts to the breakup. It can be hard to remember this, especially in situations like you're describing. It's good to remember though that the longer the relationship goes on, the more severe her reaction is likely to be, unless she decides to end it instead. So unless you can see yourself staying forever, which it doesn't sound like you do, it's better for both of you to end it earlier. And I certainly would advise against staying with someone purely for them. As for how.....honesty. I mean, if you don't feel a spark, say that. Don't try to work around it in a way that you think is less likely to hurt her feelings, because then you're more likely to fall into a situation where it's ambiguous whether or not you're still together, and that would just make things more complicated.



How do you tell a girl you like her?
I like you.

or, if that doesn't work...
"Hey Baby...Mind if I take off my pants?" :smalltongue:

Ichneumon
2007-09-14, 09:16 AM
Yes, it is a specific girl. I am 17, she is 16.

We are sort of friends. She is in my class and we talk on a regular basis...

Nice one, Alarra.

banjo1985
2007-09-14, 09:21 AM
Then I would say you have a good opportunity to find out whether a relationship has any legs before you come out and tell her. I would guess by sharing a class you may have some common interests, it should be fairly easy to see whether this stretches to other things as well. You're in a good position being able to talk to her about the class without it seeming unusual, I would take advantage of that. However if something didn't work out, being already kind of friends and in the same class would make things more difficult.

Or hey, what Alarra said, it worked for me :smallwink:

Oh and congrats Ceres, come and join us in the Pink Cloud Brigade :smallbiggrin:

Charity
2007-09-14, 09:23 AM
American pants
http://www.worldclothing.net/vintage/pants/CHINO%20PANTS-b.jpg
English pants
http://www.nooneewilga.com/images/OWP/cotton%20OWP.jpg
Thus proving Alarra is 80% naughtier in the UK

blademaster42
2007-09-14, 09:51 AM
Thanks for the advice guys. Free internets for everyone.

Brickwall
2007-09-14, 10:03 AM
"Hey Baby...Mind if I take off my pants?" :smalltongue:

For some reason, underwears are allowed to be seen by just-friends nowadays, so I'm not sure that'd work quite so well.

And I would now like to snicker immaturely at the fact that banjo said "Find out if the relationship has any legs". :smallbiggrin:

banjo1985
2007-09-14, 10:08 AM
For some reason, underwears are allowed to be seen by just-friends nowadays, so I'm not sure that'd work quite so well.

And I would now like to snicker immaturely at the fact that banjo said "Find out if the relationship has any legs". :smallbiggrin:

Your snicker is duely noted :smallamused:

rubakhin
2007-09-14, 10:08 AM
One last thing, Blade: wait a while, a few weeks at least, before pursuing the other options of which you speak. If you're dating another girl three days after the break, it'll seem to her like you wanted to trade up. That'll hurt her twice as much and hit lots of self-esteem nerves.

Serpentine
2007-09-14, 10:12 AM
For some reason, underwears are allowed to be seen by just-friends nowadays, so I'm not sure that'd work quite so well.
My Canadian friend has female friends who wander around his viscinity in their underwears. And he claims no girls like him - if that's not a plea for attention, I don't know what is :smallsigh:

Brickwall
2007-09-14, 10:13 AM
My Canadian friend has female friends who wander around his viscinity in their underwears. And he claims no girls like him - if that's not a plea for attention, I don't know what is :smallsigh:

Well, they don't. They wouldn't be doing it if they thought he was attracted to them. Poor guy. :smallfrown:

Serpentine
2007-09-14, 10:17 AM
Well, if I was doing that, at the very least it would mean that
1. I feel very comfortable around that person
and
2. I most likely would quite like him to look. In fact, there's a good chance it'd be a substantial blow to my ego if he didn't.

If I recall correctly, this guy is completely unfazed, to the point of ignoring it :smalleek: Ah pity the foo'!

Skippy
2007-09-14, 11:11 AM
I pity him too.

Congrats Ceres!!! That's yet another guy who escapes the clutches of singleness.

@Ichneumon: In words of Rusty, from Ocean's Eleven:


You look down, they know you're lying and up, they know you don't know the truth. Don't use seven words when four will do. Don't shift your weight, look always at your mark but don't stare, be specific but not memorable, be funny but don't make her laugh. She's got to like you then forget you the moment you've left her side.

Amotis
2007-09-14, 11:31 AM
What's with the connection between various stages of undressing and homosexuality? I swear...a friend of mine got notice that I was into guys and enter this awkward situation out of the blue. And then after politely letting her know I was into girls as well and this wasn't the most comfortable situation...well then she got this look of horrid tenticle-ness and called me a pervert. What? ><

magicwalker
2007-09-14, 11:42 AM
@blademaster42: I'm going to reiterate that you should talk to her about any issues that might be driving your decision before you actually choose. Question how serious she thinks the relationship is, maybe she has similar feelings as you -in which case a more mutual break up can be attempted (since mutual break ups are evidently never mutual). Even if you are ACTUALLY angry at her or she starts to react poorly, try to remain civil. Afterwords, don't get into a serious relationship for a good period of time so you can reflect on how the situation got to what it did, you reduce the liklihood of a rebound fling, and hopefully the next one will be a better experience all around.

@Ichneumon: If you don't already do stuff outside of school with her, I would suggest asking her to some event.. not exactly out of the blue. Highschool there is homecoming, prom, dances, social events, whatever... in your talks you tell her that you really want to go.. and maybe bring up that you'd rather go to suchandsuch with someone. Even if at first it's most a friendly inclusion, a friendly outing, you're building towards a more serious relationship by getting her involved in the same activities that you are. I

f being subtle doesn't work, then just ask her out. Something like coffee, a walk around a park, beach, whatever is scenic and close. Talk to her then, if you drive her home.. before you drop her off, tell her your feelings. If she doesn't reciprocate, it might be 'awkward'.. at which point the night is over and you really have to steel your resolve for the next schoolday.

If that happens, post again. I'm sure someone here has some input if you find yourself not knowing what to do.

Brickwall
2007-09-14, 11:53 AM
What's with the connection between various stages of undressing and homosexuality? I swear...a friend of mine got notice that I was into guys and enter this awkward situation out of the blue. And then after politely letting her know I was into girls as well and this wasn't the most comfortable situation...well then she got this look of horrid tenticle-ness and called me a pervert. What? ><

Why, Amotis, you live in Stereotypical Japanese Cartoon Land? Why didn't you tell us? :smalltongue:

Honestly, I don't know why girls are comfortable being more nude around gay guys. You'd have to ask one.

Although, technically, you are the first to bring sexuality into the discussion at all.

Syka
2007-09-14, 12:50 PM
Same reason many girls have no problem being in various states of undress around heterosexual females (but probably would not with homosexual females): because there is an element of safety. You don't think the other person is really looking at you. Me, I don't care about orientation. Pretty much the only people I'm comfortable around in various states of undress would be family (cause, you know, they've lived with me for 20 some years, and it's all females in my house), very close friends (who basically count as family, as in they call my mom, Mom), and significant other. Even then, it would be nothing more than if I had to, say, change clothes to go out.

But peoples comfort levels vary. Me, I'll only change clothes quickly in front of my psuedo-roommates (a couple friends whom I technically don't live with, but spend so much time with about a quarter of my things end up there at some point), whereas one won't change at all, and the other has no problem wandering around in her underwear.

So yes, if that friend is known to be straight and they are doing that either he is seen as a brother and therefore probably non-sexual entity, or gay, or they really want to get with him but don't have the guts to actually say anything. Heh.

Cheers,
Syka

sktarq
2007-09-14, 01:25 PM
An observation. Girls/women (are usually the ones to) read the bodice-rippers. They watch dodgy romantic comedies, they read Jane Austen (a pity it's only them, she's a really good writer, though I'm sure there's a heap of jokes we miss due to time and circumstances), they gossip and pine and talk about "boys!". So... why is it that there seems to be a disproportionate number of guys here angsting over girls and/or relationships? :smallconfused: Is it merely that the above stereotype is false? Do we just not hear about it from the male perspective outside of the 'net because they (maybe) don't have the same sort of social network that's willing to listen as girls do? Or are male geeks more loving (and female's less?) than others? Can anyone shed light on this little quandry?

I think something else that should be mentioned is that guys think about this plenty but is not something we advertize we talk about. Allot of it is left un verbablized-we simply mention a name (if that) and then how we don't talk for the rest of the night tells most of our friends (particularly our female ones) how we feel. The major exceptions on this are VERY close friends and the occasional near total stranger. If you are surprized by the last walk into a dive bar alone and sit down (and be male). However the internet has the allot of the same benefits if not more. The anonymity opens lots of

mdsoze
2007-09-14, 01:33 PM
An observation. Girls/women (are usually the ones to) read the bodice-rippers. They watch dodgy romantic comedies, they read Jane Austen (a pity it's only them, she's a really good writer, though I'm sure there's a heap of jokes we miss due to time and circumstances), they gossip and pine and talk about "boys!". So... why is it that there seems to be a disproportionate number of guys here angsting over girls and/or relationships? :smallconfused: Is it merely that the above stereotype is false? Do we just not hear about it from the male perspective outside of the 'net because they (maybe) don't have the same sort of social network that's willing to listen as girls do? Or are male geeks more loving (and female's less?) than others? Can anyone shed light on this little quandry?

Don't know if this has been said, but there's a world of male romantic angst in the media as well, it just isn't appealed to by the sorts of things you are mentioning. There are 1001 songs of unrequited love from the male perspective, many in the form of country ballads (she left me, took my truck, and ran over my dog). The Love Song of J. Alfred Proofrock by T.S. Eliot is a great, if extreme, example of the sort of paralyzing fear experienced by some guys, though you have to read a bit deeper into it.

The stereotypical drama is a bit different, partially due to our antiquated notions of gender roles in romance. Whereas for women it's, "Will he make a move and/or will I give?" in or some such, the struggle seems to be external. What will the world throw at me? Whereas for guys, the struggle is more internal, "What should I do? How do I make my way through this?" That internal struggle is the one that is difficult to deal with, and the one that leads to 90% of bad romantic poetry (which I myself have written a good deal over the years).

Vonriel
2007-09-14, 02:03 PM
(she left me, took my truck, and ran over my dog)

Hey, I'll have you know that they've been cutting the dog out of the equation for a while now. She still takes/busts up the truck, though...

Anyway, to the matter at hand. A less kind look at the issue you raised a page and a half ago, Serpentine: I'd say that geek guys tend towards being more desperate than non-geek guys. Looking at the posts on this board, even, it's noticable that some of the guys are rather desperate - or come off as being so - rather than confident and waiting. But, then, that could just be me.

No real advice for any of the recent posts, sorry...

FdL
2007-09-14, 04:44 PM
Thank you for your support guys. (Except for Brickwall, who has never supported anyone in any obvious way, so I'm not hurt :smallwink:) Hehe, I don't know how my family and friends would handle a bunch of my internet forum geek friends popping out of nowhere to come to my defense! :smallamused: No doubt with great surprise. But the gesture is much appreciated.


I'm in for the cookies. I heard they make nice homemade ones in your place :smallcool:
Naah, I really want you to feel better about this, you're like a little sister in the playground ^^


...wait, I'm the relationship counselor? Hehe...:smalltongue:


Yeah, Syk, you're the most balanced person here and you always have mature, sound advice to offer, no matter how wild the case. Bah, at least that's how I see you, I hold your opinions to be worth of consideration even though there are times when I don't agree with them (that's 'cause I'm a little lost in this subject anyway :))

@Holy Knight: :smalltongue:

Syka
2007-09-14, 04:56 PM
:smallredface: Thanks. Hehe, maybe I should get a job with a newspaper. Or do some online thing. If I could find someone to pay me...*rubs hands together* Hm...I should maybe actually look into that. :)

I would also like to express my amazement that we are getting close to the second thread reaching it's limit. Us "counselors" must be doing something right. :)

On the home front everything is going good. I'd almost say too good but I'm still trying to keep positive. Earlier today I had a bout of paranoia, but it went away fairly quickly. I'm surprised that it's only happened the once, and that it took two weeks to happen. I figure something right must be going on if even my worrisome nature has been mostly curbed. The fact he hasn't run away yet and that we've both been very open with each other is both terrifying and refreshing.

He should be visiting next weekend, so I'll have a better feel for it all after that most likely. But so far...it's kind of scary how well it all is fitting together. But as I said, I'm not allowing my brain to go down that path. :smallsmile: It's just good.

Though the evil boy did nearly make me weep with sorrow today. He mentioned a game that, rightly, he thought I would enjoy (basically, it's Oblivion but with a multiplayer LAN/online aspect...It's called Two Worlds). The only problem being my poor laptop can't even play Oblivion, let alone a game that hasn't even come out yet. And I have nowhere NEAR the money required to get a computer that would be able to run it. *sobs* :smallsigh: Sorry, I need somewhere to release my anguish where it might be appreciated. ;)

Cheers,
Syka

Brickwall
2007-09-14, 05:09 PM
Yeah, Syk, you're the most balanced person here

Hey, I'm balanced! Maybe not helpful or anything, but balanced!

Anyway, I would console Syka on her computer anguish, but the sad thing is that getting a new computer wouldn't solve it. Trust me. :smallsigh:

FdL
2007-09-14, 06:40 PM
"Hey Baby...Mind if I take off my pants?" :smalltongue:

I'm going to start using this :p *crosses his fingers*


My Canadian friend has female friends who wander around his viscinity in their underwears. And he claims no girls like him - if that's not a plea for attention, I don't know what is :smallsigh:

Next time you're in Canada, smack some sense into that guy for me, please :p

(with a little more reading into this, both metaphoric and of actual posts:)
Poor guy, really, they're teasing him :s And guess what will happens if he actually responds to the stimulus.


What's with the connection between various stages of undressing and homosexuality? I swear...a friend of mine got notice that I was into guys and enter this awkward situation out of the blue. And then after politely letting her know I was into girls as well and this wasn't the most comfortable situation...well then she got this look of horrid tenticle-ness and called me a pervert. What? ><

People are so complicated :s All I can say about it is in that vein.


:smallredface: Thanks. Hehe, maybe I should get a job with a newspaper. Or do some online thing. If I could find someone to pay me...*rubs hands together* Hm...I should maybe actually look into that. :)

Yeahh! You could call it asomething like "Ask Dr. Syka", "Syka's Corner" or "Dear Miss Foxy" ;)

Also, jealous of gaming couples. Never going to get that even if I ever get together with a girl :S
Revealing I like RPGs and computer games earned me mostly strange looks or girls either saying they think it's childish and a waste of time or not saying it but thinking it :S Oh, and same with anime.


Hey, I'm balanced! Maybe not helpful or anything, but balanced!

Meh, you were built that way :p

Vampiric
2007-09-14, 06:41 PM
:smallredface: Thanks. Hehe, maybe I should get a job with a newspaper. Or do some online thing. If I could find someone to pay me...*rubs hands together* Hm...I should maybe actually look into that. :)

I would also like to express my amazement that we are getting close to the second thread reaching it's limit. Us "counselors" must be doing something right. :)

On the home front everything is going good. I'd almost say too good but I'm still trying to keep positive. Earlier today I had a bout of paranoia, but it went away fairly quickly. I'm surprised that it's only happened the once, and that it took two weeks to happen. I figure something right must be going on if even my worrisome nature has been mostly curbed. The fact he hasn't run away yet and that we've both been very open with each other is both terrifying and refreshing.

He should be visiting next weekend, so I'll have a better feel for it all after that most likely. But so far...it's kind of scary how well it all is fitting together. But as I said, I'm not allowing my brain to go down that path. :smallsmile: It's just good.

Though the evil boy did nearly make me weep with sorrow today. He mentioned a game that, rightly, he thought I would enjoy (basically, it's Oblivion but with a multiplayer LAN/online aspect...It's called Two Worlds). The only problem being my poor laptop can't even play Oblivion, let alone a game that hasn't even come out yet. And I have nowhere NEAR the money required to get a computer that would be able to run it. *sobs* :smallsigh: Sorry, I need somewhere to release my anguish where it might be appreciated. ;)

Cheers,
Syka

Tbh, I've seen nothing but bad reviews for Two Worlds. I'd steer clear of it...

@brickwall: I'm balanced too! But hey, if there's anyone who's posted nearly as much as Syka has on these threads, I've yet to see their posts...:smalltongue:




Originally Posted by Brickwall
Hey, I'm balanced! Maybe not helpful or anything, but balanced!

Meh, you were built that way :p

It's the mortar. It itches:smallwink:

FdL
2007-09-14, 06:46 PM
@brickwall: I'm balanced too! But hey, if there's anyone who's posted nearly as much as Syka has on these threads, I've yet to see their posts...:smalltongue:


I post quite often, but most of it could be called anything but balanced :p

Syka
2007-09-14, 06:52 PM
Here's the thing, FdL, you just might. :) It's just a matter of finding someone you fit with. I'm not really sure how much comes across through the boards, but I'm a total goofball. I'm really weird, I don't quite fit in with people...I'm anything but normal. I can be offensive (not usually, but tweak the right buttons, and I have no problems letting you know my opinion); I can be crude; I geek out...a lot; I'm blunt; and I act like a kid. I love going on adventures and keeping the joy in life, which means I do crazy stuff like stand in the pouring rain just...cause. I game, I have a love affair with the classics, I'm a total movie dork. Basically, I'm just a huge nerd. And not everyone appreciates it.

Oz first thought I was normal. He'd been told by our friends that I was a "good girl", etc. He told me he's very happy that he's found out otherwise- and I'm very happy that I discovered that he's very much like me in those respect.

You might be surprised by people. :smallsmile: Some of us are pretty good at camoflauging ourselves to pass through society unharmed.

Cheers,
Syka

Oh yah, funny geek story: Oz told me this story about his ex. When he mentioned her to his parents his mom's first question was "Has she seen Star Wars?" because he is a huge fan, and the answer was no. Without missing a beat, his dad said she wasn't the girl from him. When he was talking about me to his mom, he made sure to mention I'd seen them all. First thing his dad asked when she talked to him: "Has she seen Star Wars?" :smallbiggrin: I also already have approval from his mom, just because I showed him one of the links floating around on these boards about the Act Like A Time Traveler Day.

Speaking of...meeting the parent's. I've never officially "met the parent's". It's always sort of been I'd go over their house, and their parent's happened to be there, so I'd meet them. Oz has every intention of me meeting his parents when I go home next time...and it kind of has me terrified. :smalleek: Not because I don't think they'll like me (parent's usually do) but I've just never done this "officially". No advice needed, just wanted to share worries. :)

Alarra
2007-09-14, 06:58 PM
Also, jealous of gaming couples. Never going to get that even if I ever get together with a girl :S
Revealing I like RPGs and computer games earned me mostly strange looks or girls either saying they think it's childish and a waste of time or not saying it but thinking it :S Oh, and same with anime.

Pshah. Give it time. Plenty of girls out there into rpgs and anime. :smallbiggrin:

Jimp
2007-09-14, 07:06 PM
Pshah. Give it time. Plenty of girls out there into rpgs and anime. :smallbiggrin:

Pessimistic counter point: Boy:Girl ratio of people with both those interests

Optimistic counter-counter point: If you find a girl with one of the two interests they can develop an interest in the second. There's not much of a gap between the two interests. BONUS POINTS: Be her partner in learning about this new interest.

Brickwall
2007-09-14, 09:09 PM
If Syka starts an advice column or thread, she knows exactly what I will suggest for her pen name. Therefore, there is little point for me mentioning it here.

Meanwhile, on the subject of geeky relationships, I would like everyone who has not yet seen the following music video (or at least heard the song) to watch it. Geeks In Love (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/295165)

Death, your friend the Reaper
2007-09-14, 09:21 PM
If Syka starts an advice column or thread, she knows exactly what I will suggest for her pen name.

......Bic?

Scorpina
2007-09-14, 09:26 PM
...gah... damn it, that was... that was... Well, that was vintage Death, is what it was.

*kiss* I love my Grandad.

FdL
2007-09-14, 09:32 PM
Here's the thing, FdL, you just might. :) It's just a matter of finding someone you fit with.
(...)
Basically, I'm just a huge nerd. And not everyone appreciates it.


Thanks for the kind words, Syk ^^
Yeah, maybe I should look for people with my same interests and all. But I suck at meeting new people.



You might be surprised by people. :smallsmile: Some of us are pretty good at camoflauging ourselves to pass through society unharmed.


Well, yeah, as a matter of fact I am. Looking at me no one would ever guess I'm a gamer or an indie rock connoiseur, much less that I can rock with the best of them.

Still your words give me hope ^^ And the existance of girls like you or the other cool ones has given me a new dream.



Oh yah, funny geek story:
(...)
I also already have approval from his mom, just because I showed him one of the links floating around on these boards about the Act Like A Time Traveler Day.


Hehehe! That was really funny :) Cool parents too, not everyone is like that.



Speaking of...meeting the parent's. I've never officially "met the parent's". It's always sort of been I'd go over their house, and their parent's happened to be there, so I'd meet them. Oz has every intention of me meeting his parents when I go home next time...and it kind of has me terrified. :smalleek: Not because I don't think they'll like me (parent's usually do) but I've just never done this "officially". No advice needed, just wanted to share worries. :)

Oh, but you'd rather have the "official" awkward situation with the four of you sitting straight in uncomfy chairs while looking at everybody's faces? :p Do people even "officially" introduce their couples to their parents anymore?


Pshah. Give it time. Plenty of girls out there into rpgs and anime. :smallbiggrin:

I guess :) But, hmm, over/around 25-30? In my city? Well, I'll have to believe there are. And I'll have to find WHERE they are.


Pessimistic counter point: Boy:Girl ratio of people with both those interests


LOL! That's so true!



Optimistic counter-counter point: If you find a girl with one of the two interests they can develop an interest in the second. There's not much of a gap between the two interests. BONUS POINTS: Be her partner in learning about this new interest.

Oh, they're not exclusive. I'm not an actual anime fan, I just like it (compared to crazy people I've met I'm just a tourist to the genre. Haven't even watched Evangelion ^^)

When I was with my ex, I made a conscious effort to adapt to her interests and things she liked. But in retrospect, I think she didn't do the same with me :( That I did wrong. Well, we did have lots in common but...[/FdL's mandatory Ex rant]

Syka
2007-09-14, 09:58 PM
No, I'd rather it not be an official, "Mom, this is my girlfriend." I prefer being like, "Hey, Mrs. Whatever. Nice to meet you." It's a looooot less stress. But the last couple days he's been mentioning me meeting his parents when I get home and us all going to dinner. :smalleek: He's an only child, too. If his parents are anything like what I've heard from them though, they're going to be great.

He already knows my mom and sister. That's one advantage to having been friends with him before hand. He's got the thumbs up from my family, and our friends, so I figure he can't be too bad. :smallsmile: I'll never forget the look on my sis's face though when I told her that we were together. Utterly priceless!


And that's what I mean, you need to make your interests known. :smallsmile: Feel the person out, show a little bit of your "off" side at a time, and figure out if they'll accept you. It's how I know what bits of my oddities to show to which friend. And I've just converted two more girls to gaming. Maybe three. Right now they're gaming with a few guys I know, but we're also going to be doing a game just us (with me as the DM) whenever I get the time. The Gaming-Geek-Girl population is ever growing.

And Brickie, <3. Hehe. I'll totally use "Foxy Lady" if I get a column. "Advice from the Foxy Lady" Hahah.

Cheers,
Syka

Brickwall
2007-09-14, 10:09 PM
I would just like to point out that someone beat Death to that joke by over 5 years. Ever read the comic strip "Foxtrot"? Yep. Although, to be fair, Paige ended up going with "Sharpie" instead.

Death, your friend the Reaper
2007-09-14, 10:14 PM
I would just like to point out that someone beat Death to that joke by over 5 years. Ever read the comic strip "Foxtrot"? Yep. Although, to be fair, Paige ended up going with "Sharpie" instead.

Foxtrot? Tsk, now I'm going to have to look up another webcomic, it better be full of puns...

EDIT: Ah, I should read all posts. Aww shucks granddaughter, now I will have to buy you that pony you wanted. That was what you asked for this year right? :smalltongue:

V Aussie isn't known for it's comic book stores, but I'll look next time I'm at the hub. Doubt I would find it though.

Brickwall
2007-09-14, 10:19 PM
Foxtrot? Tsk, now I'm going to have to look up another webcomic, it better be full of puns...

Foxtrot is an old school newspaper comic. It does have web activity, but that strip one might be too old to be on the web. You'd have to hunt down the book it was in.

Syka
2007-09-14, 10:37 PM
Ok...back on topic my peoples. :)

Cheers,
Syka

Serpentine
2007-09-14, 11:07 PM
Next time you're in Canada, smack some sense into that guy for me, please :p
I was going to, but then he pulled out :smallsigh: :smallfrown: Oh well, his loss :smallwink: :smallamused:

Midnight Son
2007-09-14, 11:59 PM
I was going to, but then he pulled out :smallsigh: :smallfrown: Oh well, his loss :smallwink: :smallamused:Excuse my dirty mind, but what does that have to do with smacking some sense into him? I only know one meaning in the context of the above sentence and I'm quite sure that that wasn't what was going on.:smallredface:

rubakhin
2007-09-15, 05:50 AM
Oh, but you'd rather have the "official" awkward situation with the four of you sitting straight in uncomfy chairs while looking at everybody's faces? :p Do people even "officially" introduce their couples to their parents anymore?


*cackles* I love meeting parents. If you get messed up enough, you hit a point where you start enjoying the fact that nobody on Earth could possibly approve of you. The last guy I dated, the Sasha, he came from this flawless Russian family. One of those types where everybody is incredibly talented, famous, and wealthy with their own articles on Wikipedia. (Seriously, the least accomplished member of his family is a well-to-do psychiatrist.) Sasha was a Yale student, and before he met me he was going to marry Muscovite pop star - she's big in Russia, but I forgot her surname otherwise I'd YouTube her for you all just to further illustrate my point.

Me, I'm a homosexual, schizophrenic, suicidal Polak, I left school at age thirteen, and everyone in my family is a factory worker. I had recently changed my surname to Rimbaud (Rubakhin's a pen name) and announced my intentions of becoming a poet-seer. Moreover, I was situated in their house at the time, in much in the same way as a bull is situated in a china shop.

That was fun. Ah, Marina will never like me, I don't know why I bother asking for advice.

Xssar
2007-09-15, 06:17 AM
Hey guys. Just noticed this thread, and thought I might be able to get some decent advice. Sorry if what I am about to say makes very little sense or is confusing, but I NEED TO VENT! I've told a few close friends, but I seem to get limited help from them, and they take a rather personal view on the whole thing. Some opinions from a more or less neutral group would be good, I think.

Right, where to start. I'm a 15-year old college student in my last year of school. A bit geeky - never had a girlfriend in my life. I'm in the middle of my exams, I'm bogged down with coursework, and I'm stressed. I really don't need much else to worry about.

However, I do have something else that I worry about. There's a girl in a few of my classes who I've really liked for a while now; for argument's sake, let's call her Steph. Admittedly, I don't know her that well, but we talk every so often, and exchange glances and smiles across the classroom during lessons. I am not at the stage of preparing to ask her out or anything, but I would like to get to know her better.

Getting to talk to her is difficult. I'm not the sort of person who socialises well outside of my own friendship groups, and me and this girl have only a couple of common friends. I usually only get to talk to Steph before classes (she arrives earlier, before most of her friends), or in our art classes after school (as none of her close friends are in that class), which haven't started yet this term. The first will be on this coming Monday, which I guess is why I'm asking for advice now.

However, things are slightly more complicated. Last week, we were both on our geography field trip. Though I was around her a lot of the time, few words were spoken, and all I really got out of the experience was a few photos of her. I have a nagging suspicion that there is a reason she wasn't talking to me much.

About a year ago, I had my first crush on a girl (let's call her Alice). It was just before the summer (again) and it was only after the holidays that I found out she was going out with my best mate (Max). After talking with her over MSN a few more times, I also found out that she knew I liked her, and that she had some feelings for me. I wasn't sure what to do, really, until near Christmas, where I made a rather large mistake and almost ruined their relationship.

Nobody was happy. In the end, we let the matter rest over the Christmas break, and it was mostly forgotten. However, tensions were high between me and Max, and things still aren't completely back to normal at present (yep, they're still going out, and I think they make a great couple).

Now, back to this field trip. Alice was there, but not Max, and Steph was there. Alice sat next to me on the coach, and due to a lack of her boyfriend, I found myself receiving plenty of hugs and the like. She blames this on missing Max and wanting someone to hug, but I still think that she has some feelings for me. Just like I still have some feelings for her. It makes me feel slightly guilty, as though I'm kinda betraying my best mate, even though I like Steph more than Alice.

I think that maybe, because of our closeness as friends, Steph might think that I still like Alice rather than her, which may have put her off. But I am unsure.

In the end, seeing as me and Alice are good friends, I told her that though a still had a few, underlying feelings for her that wouldn't go away for a long time, I actually liked Steph. She seemed fine with that, which was good. And less hugs were given after that as well. She said she will help me figure something out.

Once we were back at school, Steph started to talk a bit more to me, but just yesterday, another friend had heard from a friend that I had asked Steph out on the trip. Which is untrue. So far, I had only told four people (including Alice) about how I like Steph, and I found out that one of the people who I trusted to keep it a secret had let slip. I'm not angry at her, because I rarely get angered. But I believe that was where this rumor stemmed from.

The rumor could do one or a combination of six things, as I see it:

1) It could just fizzle and be forgotten over this weekend, depending how many other people know it.
2) Rumor could reach Steph, and on confronting me and asking 'what's this rumor about?', it becomes clear that she does like me and something starts between us.
3) As above, but she admits to not liking me that way.
4) As above, but no revelation other than 'it's just a rumor. Then it comes around to me asking her out in future, she may not take me seriously.
5) If the rumor reaches Steph and it is misinterpreted. In reality, Alice and Steph have the same first name. It would only take someone to say to him 'Matt (that's me) asked Alice/Steph (not including second name) out on the geography trip' for there to be a misunderstanding and for Steph to have another reason to believe I like Alice over her, and to put her off.
6) This is the worst - if this news reaches Max. In the same way Steph might misunderstand it, my mate might take it that I asked his girl out, then dumps Alice and destroys any friendship we had before I can do anything about it. I think Alice might understand what went wrong, but may be nonetheless angry. Though I might be able to fix their relationship and my friendship with Max by explaining the situation, I would hate to see a similar situation to the one that almost resulted nine months ago repeat itself.
I have no real question I need answering, just general advice. How should I approach Steph? Shall I completely clear up things with my best mate regarding Alice before something bad does happen? Or would that just unnecessarily bring that past event? Is there anything I've missed? Am I being a complete and utter hopeless romantic and there's no way in hell that Steph actually likes me? Is there any way I can I get rid of that guilty feeling? Have I just contradicted myself by asking loads of questions?

Thanks to anyone who gives me advice,
Xssar (aka Matt)

Ichneumon
2007-09-15, 06:44 AM
Xssar, I can't really give you any real advice as I am too a 15 17 year old geeky student who never had a girlfriend, but I would still like to give you my sympathies as this is a really complicated situation.:smallsmile:

mdsoze
2007-09-15, 06:56 AM
This isn't specific advice, but it seems like in this situation, you are a lot closer with Max than you are with Alice or Steph right now. Therefore, it would seem proper to make sure things are good between you and Max first. If you guys are best friends, you ought to be able to work through any complications, and figure out how things are. Once you've talked things through with him, then at least you know how things stand, you can take your chances with Steph or not, and you won't destroy your closest friendship.

On how to approach Steph, there's been lots of advice in this thread, lots of ideas for methods. Personally, I usually favor a "Just do it" approach, but I guess others like something more sly and subtle.

Xssar
2007-09-15, 07:11 AM
This isn't specific advice, but it seems like in this situation, you are a lot closer with Max than you are with Alice or Steph right now. Therefore, it would seem proper to make sure things are good between you and Max first. If you guys are best friends, you ought to be able to work through any complications, and figure out how things are. Once you've talked things through with him, then at least you know how things stand, you can take your chances with Steph or not, and you won't destroy your closest friendship.

On how to approach Steph, there's been lots of advice in this thread, lots of ideas for methods. Personally, I usually favor a "Just do it" approach, but I guess others like something more sly and subtle.

I guess I should make Max my first priority then. I actually feel more close with Alice (in a friendship sense) than Max at current. That in itself worries me slightly, and I have been trying to put some distance between Alice and me (hence what I told her on the coach). Perhaps I should work more on making Max closer? I think with a little bit more hard work, I can achieve that. I'm going to his paint balling party on the 29th September, so that would be a good opportunity to do some serious socializing :smallbiggrin:.

As for approaching Steph, 'just doing it' isn't in my character. I'm reserved. Shy. I think I'd fall under that other category.

Brickwall
2007-09-15, 08:21 AM
I'd say talk to Max about the whole thing. Whether or not he can give good advice, telling him could prevent a misunderstanding.

Rumors will get out. Hell, I remember high school, rumors got out that weren't even founded in any kind of solid fact. You give them something real to go on, and people will talk. I don't know how they do it. They're like psychic privacy-invading poorly-trained monkeys. As for asking Steph out...well, I honestly don't care. Friendships are valuable in high school, but plenty of people get by without dating. Keep your friends. Girls cost extra.

Vampiric
2007-09-15, 09:35 AM
@^ True, but so very, very cynical.:smallamused:

@ Xssar, I'm assuming you've just started your last year? Wait... how can you be in the middle of exams in the summer holidays...?! Anyhoo, question still stands. If you are just finishing, then I suggest waiting till exams are over before asking Kate, and making sure that you are either a)both going to the same school/college/uni (whatever you call it) or b) you are happy to try a long distance relationship. If you are just starting/halfway through your last year, then wait for a bit, till your exams are done, because, like you said, you don't need any more stress on top of what you have.

Xssar
2007-09-15, 10:47 AM
@ Xssar, I'm assuming you've just started your last year? Wait... how can you be in the middle of exams in the summer holidays...?! Anyhoo, question still stands. If you are just finishing, then I suggest waiting till exams are over before asking Steph, and making sure that you are either a)both going to the same school/college/uni (whatever you call it) or b) you are happy to try a long distance relationship. If you are just starting/halfway through your last year, then wait for a bit, till your exams are done, because, like you said, you don't need any more stress on top of what you have.

I'm in England, and we do our exams/coursework over two years. Technically yes, I've just started my last year, but there is already tonnes of coursework, some of which has been carried over from last year. Even now, I have 8 pages of art research to do for Monday, and I have to re-write my Biology coursework. It sucks.

As for the whole long-distance/same sixth form college thing, I think I can safely say we'll both be going to the same place. We're both bright students, so we're both likely to get into the best sixth form college in Cambridge. Even if we end up in different places, we don't live very far apart and the colleges are all pretty centralized in Cambridge. My friends from higher years still see each other frequently, even though they are in separate colleges.

I should have less stress on me exams-wise after October, and coming up to the Christmas holidays. It's a kind of... quiet period between exams. No doubt there will still be a bit of work to do. It might be one of the few opportunities to ask her out (so long as I feel I know her well enough by that time). But I'm in no great hurry - I don't see relationships like this something that you just run relatively blindly into without much clue of what you're doing or what you want out of it. It would just end quickly. I'm looking for something more long-term.


I'd say talk to Max about the whole thing. Whether or not he can give good advice, telling him could prevent a misunderstanding.

Rumors will get out. Hell, I remember high school, rumors got out that weren't even founded in any kind of solid fact. You give them something real to go on, and people will talk. I don't know how they do it. They're like psychic privacy-invading poorly-trained monkeys. As for asking Steph out...well, I honestly don't care. Friendships are valuable in high school, but plenty of people get by without dating. Keep your friends. Girls cost extra.

I suppose your right - at least this rumor isn't completely baseless. As I said, I'm making Max my top priority, but other than that, any friendships I have aren't in danger because of this.

If you had asked me a year-ish ago, I would have been one of those people who could have got by without dating. I probably still can. But it's hard to quell that feeling you get when you really like someone, and to be honest, I don't particularly want that feeling to go away :smallwink:.

Syka
2007-09-15, 11:21 AM
Yah, let Max know first that you heard about some rumor someone started and that it is patently false.

Honestly...If Alice acts that differently around you without Max there...That is a warning flag. I have certain friends that I hug a lot, and friends I don't. I hug these friends around my boyfriend. He knows, and he understands, that I don't put myself in situations where anything questionable will happen. I just happen to be closer to those friends (they are few and far between...usually the hug is just as a greeting, since I've got issues about people who aren't family/significant others getting physically close). But I don't act differently around them than with my boyfriend there.

As for any other advice...ask Steph to do something. :)

And I'm getting confused by this college thing. oO I'm assuming you are in the American equivalent to high school? Heh, yes...I'm not always the sharpest person.

Cheers,
Syka

Glaivemaster
2007-09-15, 12:35 PM
And I'm getting confused by this college thing. oO I'm assuming you are in the American equivalent to high school? Heh, yes...I'm not always the sharpest person.

Cheers,
Syka

Have you read Harry Potter? Simplest way to think of it is - Harry's first 5 years, secondary school, his 4th and 5th being GCSEs, which is what Xssar is on now, if I'm getting this right. The final 2 years, 6th and 7th, are the equivalent of our college years.

In other good news I'm no longer single :smallsmile: Now I've just got to figure out how much she minds that at the same time we had the discussion about where we are, I was quite inebriated :smalleek:

Syka
2007-09-15, 12:41 PM
Aww. That's why I'm happy neither Oz nor I drink, as a rule (I'm going to make an exception for my 21st birthday). The last guy I dated did, infrequently, but he still drank. And the times he drank ended up involving some...interesting situations, not directly stemming from the fact that he had consumed alcohol, things just seemed to go wrong.

But congrats I guess on the loss of singlehood. :)

Cheers,
Syka

Glaivemaster
2007-09-15, 12:46 PM
Yeah. Luckily I wasn't bad enough to be doing anything stupid, just enough to be quite clumsy both physically (I imagine I may have staggered a little? I don't know) and mentally/verbally (though I don't believe I was quite slurring. Once again, I'm not sure). I don't drink to excess too much though, and I probably won't around her, lest something does go wrong

Sir_Norbert
2007-09-15, 02:08 PM
Xssar:

the thing about them having the same first name might cause some confusion. I'm sure Max wouldn't do anything hasty before asking "Which one do you mean?", but suppose that as the rumour gets handed on, person X assumes that person Y means the other one and tells person Z including the wrong one's last name. I'd guess this is unlikely to happen, but I'd also guess it's better to clear things up before people find things out from a source other than you.

Similarly, it's better to let Steph know you like her than for her to find out from someone else. If that happens she'll just end up thinking "He's got no guts". Of course, it's difficult to let her know if you're a shy person -- I know just how that feels. But just do it, and then even if she isn't interested, you'll have had some valuable practice that you'll be able to use another time.


Am I being a complete and utter hopeless romantic and there's no way in hell that Steph actually likes me?
It's impossible to tell without asking. Impossible. I've been in the situation twice in the last two and a half years of having a friendship grow increasingly close and turn into love, and trying to analyse the signs and see if she was trying to hint that she liked me back. One of the two did like me back, the other one didn't and was quite shocked because she hadn't even realised she'd said anything that could be taken that way. And then my current girlfriend, before we got together she'd been trying to hint that she liked me for two years and I never caught on..... so yes. You really can't tell. Just ask.

Xssar
2007-09-16, 06:14 AM
Yah, let Max know first that you heard about some rumor someone started and that it is patently false.

Honestly...If Alice acts that differently around you without Max there...That is a warning flag. I have certain friends that I hug a lot, and friends I don't. I hug these friends around my boyfriend. He knows, and he understands, that I don't put myself in situations where anything questionable will happen. I just happen to be closer to those friends (they are few and far between...usually the hug is just as a greeting, since I've got issues about people who aren't family/significant others getting physically close). But I don't act differently around them than with my boyfriend there.

As for any other advice...ask Steph to do something. :)

And I'm getting confused by this college thing. oO I'm assuming you are in the American equivalent to high school? Heh, yes...I'm not always the sharpest person.

Cheers,
Syka

Thanks for that, Syka. I see now that Alice is acting different when not around Max, and you're right - that could be bad news. Also, what exactly do you mean by 'ask Steph to do something'?


Have you read Harry Potter? Simplest way to think of it is - Harry's first 5 years, secondary school, his 4th and 5th being GCSEs, which is what Xssar is on now, if I'm getting this right. The final 2 years, 6th and 7th, are the equivalent of our college years.

That's about right, yes. I've had to explain many times to friends in America about education here in England. They often get confused, so no worries, Syka :smallwink:.


Xssar:

the thing about them having the same first name might cause some confusion. I'm sure Max wouldn't do anything hasty before asking "Which one do you mean?", but suppose that as the rumour gets handed on, person X assumes that person Y means the other one and tells person Z including the wrong one's last name. I'd guess this is unlikely to happen, but I'd also guess it's better to clear things up before people find things out from a source other than you.

It is unlikely that it would be misinterpreted in that way, but to Max, Alice is the only one I really relate to, not Steph. If it's just the first name, I fear that he will jump to a conclusion that it is Alice that is spoken of. He's in none of the classes I'm in with Steph, and so wouldn't have noticed how I act around her.

But yes, I will clear things up before that happens.


Similarly, it's better to let Steph know you like her than for her to find out from someone else. If that happens she'll just end up thinking "He's got no guts". Of course, it's difficult to let her know if you're a shy person -- I know just how that feels. But just do it, and then even if she isn't interested, you'll have had some valuable practice that you'll be able to use another time.

I would go and ask her out, if I thought I knew her well enough. I said in my first post that, although I like her, I don't know her well enough to be sure that a good relationship will result. I know she may find out anyway, and unfortunately, I feel that it is beyond my power to stop without doing something foolish.


It's impossible to tell without asking. Impossible. I've been in the situation twice in the last two and a half years of having a friendship grow increasingly close and turn into love, and trying to analyse the signs and see if she was trying to hint that she liked me back. One of the two did like me back, the other one didn't and was quite shocked because she hadn't even realised she'd said anything that could be taken that way. And then my current girlfriend, before we got together she'd been trying to hint that she liked me for two years and I never caught on..... so yes. You really can't tell. Just ask.

I've heard that answer from the few friends I've consorted on the matter :smalltongue:.

Syka
2007-09-16, 09:49 AM
By "do stuff", I mean go to the movies...To a park...Coffee (or some other beverage)...Ice skating...Something fun, something that can either be "just friends" or can be turned into a date. But, as many people on here have suggested at other times, the best idea is for it to be something where you can get to know each other.

Cheers,
Syka

Xssar
2007-09-16, 10:05 AM
Ok, I gotcha :smallwink:. Perhaps I'll take her somewhere when I know her better, and if I'm still unsure about whether she likes me or not. I think that would be a good way to get things rolling, seeing as I can't see myself physically going up to her and saying 'hey, do you wanna go out on a date with me?'. I'm not that bold or outgoing.

Thanks again,
Xssar

Dragonrider
2007-09-16, 05:13 PM
Xssar...they say things mean more when you say them directly...but for me email has been a wonderful thing.

BUT - the worst thing that can happen is that she says "no". Worst thing possible. It's crushing, yes, but a month down the road, it'll feel easier than still wondering. (Past that, I don't know yet...I've only gotten to one month so far. :smalltongue:)

As for the rumor...I second (or third, or fourth) the advice somebody originally gave, that is, bring it up with Max. It'll no doubt die an unlamented death within a couple weeks anyway.

Zeb The Troll
2007-09-17, 01:20 AM
Good gods this thread is like a wildfire now. I can barely keep up.

@Xssar/Matt - I'm going to restate some of the advice given already and add my two cents in the process. Ask her (Steph) to do something with you. Don't ask her on a "date". Don't wait to get to know her better. The object of doing something together is to get to know each other better. It's important to choose something that will let you interact with each other though. A movie is a bad choice since you're not supposed to talk for two hours and you're not facing the person you go with. Depending on your/her interests, a better option might be something like a museum, zoo, or an amusement park or carnival. Personally, I like amusement parks because it lets you have a reason to sit close while you're riding rides, lets you take the day at your own pace, and has a wide variety of things to do while you're there. As the shy type, though, the museum or zoo might be a better choice because they provide you with things to talk about.

Hope at least some of this helps.

EDIT: On the subject of communicating over email - it has its plusses and minusses. On one hand, the person you're emailing doesn't get a chance to look at you while you're talking. There's a loss of non-verbal communication that can mask both how nervous you are and how sincere you are, either of which can lead to miscommunication. On the other hand, it gives you a chance to compose what you want to say and say it in a more meaningful manner. And it can help overcome the hesitation to communicate at all. I know for me there have been times where I composed a message then waffled on sending it for a long time, then sent it and immediately wondered if I should have. The thing is, it's sent. It's already gone and the hard part is over. Of course, that can be good or bad too.

Ranis
2007-09-17, 06:10 AM
Oh crap, this is gonna be a long one. Well, here goes.

On Saturday at work, I had the pleasure of getting to know this girl that I had been helping find where to put things a couple weeks previous, and had a nice chat during our lunch breaks. I work in the Deli, and we were closing up when she came by seemingly randomly on her last break to tell me that someone had given her a piece of pizza, and this was apparently relevant to the fact that she had eaten most of my carrot chips (which was my lunch that day). So in my confusion, all I could think to say was "Awesome?" and she pouted and walked away. I turned to a female co-worker for a translation of this strange behavior, and she could instantly tell that this girl had a crush on me. Interesting. After I went on my last break of the night, she snuck up on me and told me she had something to tell me for after I got off that night. Oh, great. When I did go over there when I got off, she told me what my co-worker had deduced: there was a crush there.

My first and initial response to this was :-O!!!

Considering this had never happened to me before, I really didn't know what to say. She strong-armed my phone number out of me and I ended up talking to her on Saturday night for about two hours, and got to sleep at about 1:15AM. During this conversation, I thought, 'What could it hurt?' and asked if she wanted to go out on Tuesday. She agreed, and we set the date/time in stone and everything else fell into place.

Awesome, right? Okay, so, she didn't work yesterday, but I always/only work on the weekends. I go about the day without too many complications, and when I take my last break of the night, I stepped outside for some fresh air, and guess who's there? Yep. She came to the store at 8:00 and sat outside waiting for me for an hour. Totally randomly. At this point I realized that she's no longer hiding in the slightest that she's totally infatuated with me. We sat down on a bench and she asked me more questions and told me how cute I was and giggled a lot. This is really awkward for me, because I'm very much not used to this kind of attention in the slightest, and also, whenever I'm about to be on a date with someone, it's always me that's doing the infatuating, and not the other way around (at least at first). After my 20 minutes are up, I announced that I needed to back in to finish closing, and she gave me this big bear hug and gave me a peck on the lips.

:smalleek:

Okay, huh? Then she tried to hold my hand as I went back in the store, and I halfheartedly held hers out of courtesy. Now, I tell you this little story to tell you how I feel about this whole ordeal:

I'm really confused and scared. I'm confused because this is a complete role reversal for me: I've never had a girl all over me and not hiding it at all. It's making me very uncomfortable, to be honest, and the fact that she's pushing this on me isn't really helping things. I'm scared because when I look at this outside myself, I really can't see a problem with things. She's gorgeous, affectionate, honest, and she smiles a lot. She's so far removed from Geekdom that she's never heard of Star Wars, but there's always educating to be done there. I mean, there's nothing that I can find fault with in her; she's my age, my height, the body type that I like, and a very sweet person. I'm scared because this all seems too good to be true, and I'm afraid of jumping in because I really don't want to get hurt again. it's happened too many times in the past and I think I have the right to be a bit antsy about the whole situation.

This is the first time that I can remember where I was just being myself and a girl is completely infatuated with me just based soley on that alone. When I look at the big picture, I see that I really shouldn't be over analyzing this and that I should take it as it comes, but there's just something keeping me from doing so. My heart says "Yes, yes, yes!" but my mind is saying, "Slow down and think it out."

Which one should I listen to?

Serpentine
2007-09-17, 06:18 AM
o.O
O.o
...
Awesome.
Don't know what to say, Ranis. You could ask her to go a bit easy on you, but I don't know how you could do so without making her feel bad or embarassed. It does sound like you like her, though, so I suppose if you stressed the fact that you would like to be together (assuming you do?) and that you're just a bit overwhelmed, it should be okay?

Brickwall
2007-09-17, 06:51 AM
Just go on an actual date or two before you decide to go bump uglies with her. Otherwise, you're in every shy guy's dream relationship.

Ranis
2007-09-17, 08:23 AM
o.O
O.o
...
Awesome.
Don't know what to say, Ranis. You could ask her to go a bit easy on you, but I don't know how you could do so without making her feel bad or embarassed. It does sound like you like her, though, so I suppose if you stressed the fact that you would like to be together (assuming you do?) and that you're just a bit overwhelmed, it should be okay?

That's also another huge thing that I'm trying to figure out here-this whole thing is moving very fast, and I'm trying to figure out whether I actually like her, or I'm just liking the attention because I'm lonely.

Zeb The Troll
2007-09-17, 08:40 AM
Ranis - I say if you don't dislike her and you're not being untrue to anyone else, roll with it and see where it goes. I also think that you should be able to ask her to reel it in a bit without hurting her feelings. Saying something like - "You know, I'm really excited about seeing where this relationship goes with you but this is all a bit overwhelming at the moment. Would it be cool if we brought it down a notch? I feel like I'm missing the 'beginning' part here and I don't want to miss that." - shouldn't cause any big drama. It might even be viewed positively. I'm sure others will have different views.

JBakaka
2007-09-17, 08:44 AM
hello everyone!
first i'd just like to say this is a great thread (which i've admittedly been trolling for a couple of weeks to catch up to the current posts) and I must say the advice has been unbelievably good :smallsmile:

@ Xssar: I agree with Zeb, ask her to something outside, not as a date, and maybe with other mutual friends or something, so that she feels comfortable and stuff..then see if you still think you guys are compatible.

@ Ranis: I dunno what to say dude, although I must point to brickwall's post

Otherwise, you're in every shy guy's dream relationship.

Other than that, I would agree with your head, try to slow down and get to know her better before ..um..
bump uglies. :smalltongue:
good luck with that.

[/$0.02]

Death, your friend the Reaper
2007-09-17, 08:48 AM
"You know, I'm really excited about seeing where this relationship goes with you but this is all a bit overwhelming at the moment. Would it be cool if we brought it down a notch? I feel like I'm missing the 'beginning' part here and I don't want to miss that."

Or try saying "So, hey want to go jump in the sack?" And in my experience they instantly want to take it down a notch themselves.

Some people just don't do partnered sack racing for some reason...

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/45/68/22616845.jpg




....And thats why Death never gives advice.

Skippy
2007-09-17, 08:51 AM
Death, you just blew my mind again. My head has asploded.

Anyway, Ranis, congratulations. I agree that it can be awkward, but don't rush it. You can make things work and everything will be fine, if you don't rush it. If you like her, then fine. But always try to keep your own pace, and, most important, make her understand that you like her and you're walking towards her, and not away from her. Sometimes they can misunderstand being slow, or so I think...

SDF
2007-09-17, 08:55 AM
Or try saying "So, hey want to go jump in the sack?" And in my experience they instantly want to take it down a notch themselves.

Some people just don't do partnered sack racing for some reason...

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/45/68/22616845.jpg




....And thats why Death never gives advice.

If you are going to jump in a sack you better be sure to get your quarter back, or else it doesn't seem to be worth it.

http://www.cnusd.k12.ca.us/centennial-hs/football/Clovis/06-23sack.jpg

(This post has two puns)

Xssar
2007-09-17, 01:01 PM
Good gods this thread is like a wildfire now. I can barely keep up.

@Xssar/Matt - I'm going to restate some of the advice given already and add my two cents in the process. Ask her (Steph) to do something with you. Don't ask her on a "date". Don't wait to get to know her better. The object of doing something together is to get to know each other better. It's important to choose something that will let you interact with each other though. A movie is a bad choice since you're not supposed to talk for two hours and you're not facing the person you go with. Depending on your/her interests, a better option might be something like a museum, zoo, or an amusement park or carnival. Personally, I like amusement parks because it lets you have a reason to sit close while you're riding rides, lets you take the day at your own pace, and has a wide variety of things to do while you're there. As the shy type, though, the museum or zoo might be a better choice because they provide you with things to talk about.

Hope at least some of this helps.

EDIT: On the subject of communicating over email - it has its plusses and minusses. On one hand, the person you're emailing doesn't get a chance to look at you while you're talking. There's a loss of non-verbal communication that can mask both how nervous you are and how sincere you are, either of which can lead to miscommunication. On the other hand, it gives you a chance to compose what you want to say and say it in a more meaningful manner. And it can help overcome the hesitation to communicate at all. I know for me there have been times where I composed a message then waffled on sending it for a long time, then sent it and immediately wondered if I should have. The thing is, it's sent. It's already gone and the hard part is over. Of course, that can be good or bad too.

It was back to school today, and I did tell Max about the matter. It went down as well as can be expected, and it seemed to fix a few of those tensions between us. So thanks for that, guys :smallbiggrin:. As for the rumor itself, I don't think it spread far anyway. I trust all the people who heard it, and no-one else has mentioned it, so I'm safe on that front. I think.

Email I don't like. Although I find it easier to say things when not actually faced with the person, it's one of the things that hasn't turned out well for me, not just regarding dating and the like. The dispute that me and Max had over Alice was partially due to miscommunication over the net.

As for going somewhere with her, I think it would be best amongst other friends. I'm not exactly a person who goes out a lot, and just inviting her would look rather suspicious in my mind, not only to her. I think being with other people would relax me more too, which has to be a benefit.

Thanks again everyone,
Xssar

Sir_Norbert
2007-09-17, 01:18 PM
I'm really confused and scared. I'm confused because this is a complete role reversal for me: I've never had a girl all over me and not hiding it at all. It's making me very uncomfortable, to be honest, and the fact that she's pushing this on me isn't really helping things. I'm scared because when I look at this outside myself, I really can't see a problem with things. She's gorgeous, affectionate, honest, and she smiles a lot. She's so far removed from Geekdom that she's never heard of Star Wars, but there's always educating to be done there. I mean, there's nothing that I can find fault with in her; she's my age, my height, the body type that I like, and a very sweet person. I'm scared because this all seems too good to be true, and I'm afraid of jumping in because I really don't want to get hurt again. it's happened too many times in the past and I think I have the right to be a bit antsy about the whole situation.

This is the first time that I can remember where I was just being myself and a girl is completely infatuated with me just based soley on that alone. When I look at the big picture, I see that I really shouldn't be over analyzing this and that I should take it as it comes, but there's just something keeping me from doing so. My heart says "Yes, yes, yes!" but my mind is saying, "Slow down and think it out."

Which one should I listen to?
This reminds me a lot of the situation I was in four months ago when I discovered that Valeran -- the girl I've been with ever since -- liked me. (Sorry to regular readers for the fact that I keep bringing her up as an example. This time it really is relevant.) It was a complete role reversal for me too, and I didn't handle it well. Though admittedly I was under a lot of pressure as we only had two days (TWO DAYS!!!) before we would be 5000 miles apart again; you're not in that situation. You have time to take things slowly, see how your feelings develop. Especially, don't lie to her, don't pretend you feel more than you really do, let her know that you're a bit confused. If she's really the person for you -- if she really wants you to be happy as opposed to just wants a quick f*** -- she will understand and will let you have time to sort your feelings out. Keep making arrangements to do things together so you can get to know each other better and explore how you interact as a couple.

But dammit, above all, don't let her go just because you're not sure of yourself. Make it clear that you feel something, you're just not entirely sure what. And get us some pictures of the two of you together :)

Syka
2007-09-17, 02:17 PM
I agree with Sir Norbert. She shouldn't have a problem backing off a little (I'd be getting a bit spooked myself), but just because you aren't sure don't back off. Give it a couple dates, get to know her better, etc. I wasn't really that sure about Oz in the beginning, as much as I thought I felt something, because I was worried I was rushing into it, etc. Now, I know two weeks is still fairly new, but I'm much more confident in how I feel than I had been before. This weekend I'm sure will only help to cement that.

Just give it time. There isn't an expiration date. :)

Cheers,
Syka

Ranis
2007-09-17, 02:25 PM
I knew that Syka'd tell me what I needed to hear. :)

I'm taking her out tomorrow, and she's really excited due to A)the obvious that was described above and B)I haven't told her where we're going. So hopefully that'll get better.

Oh, and what is going on this weekend? =P

Jibar
2007-09-17, 02:45 PM
Scuse me. I'm currently trying to track down Ranis.
Ran-man, if somebody knocks on your door, and slaps you, that's me.
Or her, because something went wrong.
Okay, if someone English knocks on your door and slaps you, it's me.
Because God Damn, you are far too lucky.

Syka
2007-09-17, 03:03 PM
...:smalleek: Hehe. I'm only saying what about three other posters said.

Gah, I'm not good with the psuedo-celebrity stuff. :P Hehe.

Cheers,
Syka.

EDIT: He's coming up to visit. :) I haven't seen him since our friends birthday over two weeks ago. I feel bad, cause he can't stay with me and thus has to get a hotel room, but he's really wanting to come up and the next time I'm definitely coming home isn't until Thanksgiving.

Logic
2007-09-17, 03:07 PM
Scuse me. I'm currently trying to track down Ranis.
Ran-man, if somebody knocks on your door, and slaps you, that's me.
Or her, because something went wrong.
Okay, if someone English knocks on your door and slaps you, it's me.
Because God Damn, you are far too lucky.

@ Ranis. If someone in camoflage with and English person knocks on your door and slaps you, just bewqare that it was well deserved.

sktarq
2007-09-17, 03:12 PM
Ranis. If someone who could can't figure out is English or not with a beard knocks on your door gives you a handshake a pat on the back and sizes you up to see if a shot of whiskey would be legal. Know that is well deserved too. :smallwink: Goodluck

zeratul
2007-09-17, 03:23 PM
Well it's been a few weeks since I was here. I wanted to say that my feelings have grown immensly to a point where I could honestly call them love. We have been getting along really well, we still hang out, and sometimes see each other at school.

rubakhin
2007-09-17, 03:44 PM
Ranushka: If a Slav with a lot of pamphlets on sexual harassment shows up at your door and starts asking "Show me on zhe doll vhere she touched you" ...

*ahem* Well, just see how things turn out tomorrow. Be honest with yourself, don't feel pressured to man up to things. (I mean, you'd be okay accepting your need to slow down if the roles were reversed, right?) If you're going to need to ease into the relationship a little, that's perfectly all right. Explain to her that you're a little confused and emotionally uncomfortable and she should turn it down a notch. If she doesn't respect your boundaries, get rid of her.

In the end, however, it may just be that you're only afraid to take a chance because of your past experiences and self-esteem. The problem may be in the spine. Have a shot of vodka and chin up.

Ranis
2007-09-17, 03:59 PM
In the end, however, it may just be that you're only afraid to take a chance because of your past experiences and self-esteem. The problem may be in the spine. Have a shot of vodka and chin up.

I'll admit that I'm very scared of getting hurt again. Very, very scared. But in order to ensure that that never happens again, I'd have to completely discontinue dating, right? That's something that I don't want to do. So I guess taking the plunge is the only way that I'm ever going to get anything at all, even though doing it is not something that I'm comfortable with.

Oh, and I don't drink. ;p

Syka
2007-09-17, 04:05 PM
It is not necessarily a cowardly issue as a realism issue. I should know. I'm a self-admitted hopeless romantic, but I've got a realistic streak a mile wide that tends to get me into trouble.

I've never told anyone that I would be with them forever, or that I'd never love anyone but them, or any other absolutes, because my rational brain tells me that I can't know that for certain. My rational brain is also good at coming up with all sorts of reasons to not do something or to end something or any number of things. And they are all good reasons, even from an objective view point.




For Oz, I've shut up that rational part, at least as much as I'm able to without jepordizing myself, to see where it will get me. So far I'm liking the journey it's set me upon I'm guessing Ranis, aside from being shy, has a strong element of rationality to how he approachs relationships which, while normally very good in dealing with problems, it can become a huge detriment to beginning and maintaining a relationship.

I know from experience that when a significant other asks you "Do you think you'll ever love anyone else like me?" the answer is not, "Probably." *hits self* Yah...I did that...Honestly, I still believe it but...yah, tact is a virtue and so is tempering rationality when it comes to romance. Love is not rational. :) (But notice, I didn't say get rid of it all. I'm just letting my heart lead me, with my mind giving it gentle directions every now and then if it thinks it is straying too far off the path.)

Cheers,
Syka