Trying to make a bard good (send help)

[Colonel Snazzy]

So, in the next campaign we are doing I am determined to make the bard work. (we have a power player who thinks that bard is awful and keeps discouraging everyone from going anywhere NEAR the class) The DM is going to allow everything except Dragon Mags (or mags in general), and maybe BoED and BoVD (negotiating this).

At the moment I'm going to go as either a silver brow human or a dragon-born Aasimar (is LA buy off is allowed). I'm was thinking of going solid bard, as I'm mainly focussing on buffing with music, (I don't really know any good prestige classes for that) with possibly a dip into cleric. Using Words of Creation, Songs of the Heart, Dragonfire inspiration and Draconic Heritage (with some magic items like a Vest of Legends), I'm going to get a bonus 10-12d6 of sonic damage to attacks at level 10 or so. (I think)

Does anyone have any tips or help to offer? I may have messed up the maths, so corrections are welcome. :smallbiggrin:

P.S. I was thinking of having him play a Kazoo or a One-Man-Band or something because it would be funny to play a really awful and annoying instrument and give everybody godly buffs.

[weckar]

Before suggesting any of the lovely multiclassing options the Bard has available - you probably don't want to. I guess single-classing this is the best way to prove the point that Bards can kick ALL the ass.

Have you poured through the handbooks yet?

[Alabenson]

It looks like you're already moving in the right direction; where you go from here will largely depend on what you want to accomplish as a bard. For example, if you want to move towards stronger casting (usually a solid decision in 3.5) you should take a look at the Sublime Chord prestige class from CA.

Also, you may want to take a look at the X stat to Y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus) thread, which can help you get more mileage out of your Cha stat.

[Calthropstu]

How to make a bard good: Write either CG, NG or LG in the alignment section.

[Colonel Snazzy]

How to make a bard good: Write either CG, NG or LG in the alignment section.

Oh ha, ha, ha.

[eggynack]

Spells are important and junk. Do you have a planned list?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Heartfire Fanner? Otherwise, you're looking good. Proper spell choice should take you the rest of the way to stomping all over everything

[Colonel Snazzy]

Spells are important and junk. Do you have a planned list?

No, I do not have a planned list, I was hoping to receive help with that (I've never really played a caster for long, I just don't like the fighting style.)

[Grod_The_Giant]

I mean, you can always make a melee bard. You get that huge Inspire Courage bonus too, after all. Snowflake Wardance or Charming the Arrow even let you use Cha to attack, if you so desire, and there's an item in the MiC (the Crystal Echoblade, I think) that adds half your level to damage while singing. Add in great buffs like Alter Self and Haste...?

[Colonel Snazzy]

I mean, you can always make a melee bard. You get that huge Inspire Courage bonus too, after all. Snowflake Wardance or Charming the Arrow even let you use Cha to attack, if you so desire, and there's an item in the MiC (the Crystal Echoblade, I think) that adds half your level to damage while singing. Add in great buffs like Alter Self and Haste...?

yeah, I was thinking of using the Erystal Echoblade, but I don't know if I can spare a feat for Snowflake Wardance. I thought that because most of my damage will be from Inspire Courage anyway I could just use a sling or something and sonic blast people into oblivion. This would also mean that I won't have to spend as many points on physical attributes.

EDIT: I suppose I could just take a Flaw or two, but I'd prefer not to have to. Also, since I'll have like 22-24 cha anyway I guess that those feats will help on lower levels.

[Thurbane]

How to make a bard good: Write either CG, NG or LG in the alignment section.

Only if you want to move on and not progress in bard any more.


A bard who becomes lawful in alignment cannot progress in levels as a bard, though he retains all his bard abilities.

[Coretron03]

Only if you want to move on and not progress in bard any more.
He's probably thinking of the pathfinder bard which has Alingment: Any

[Pleh]

You say the goal is to show up a power player. If you have such a particular power level in mind, then it matters to some degree what other characters are in the party.

Snowflake Wardance is commonly considered a trap. I think it works fine when it isn't that far out of the way for your build already. Just remember it's got some tight restrictions.

First, you gotta burn one of your bardic music uses, so that's one fewer DFI+WoC IC combos for the day (which is likely to be more effective).

Second, it says slashing weapons only.

Third, wield with one hand only (so maybe TWF, but no Power Attack).

Fourth, no shields (so no sword and board), no armor heavier than light, and no encumberance heavier than light.

Lastly, it leaves you fatigued for 10 minutes.

If you were planning to use one handed slashing weapons, no shields, and no/light armor, the feat isn't all that bad. You might find a spell or magic item to shrug off the fatigue.

Good luck getting more Cha+Str(or dex) to attack than DFI+WoC+magic items can add to your attack, though.

[BaronDoctor]

If you're playing a bard, there's no getting around it, Inspire Courage is your main combat trick. Sure, you've got Snowflake Wardance or Charming the Arrow, you've got tricks and whatnot you can do, but Inspire Courage is what makes bards great. Focus on that. Anything you do to crank that with character resources is a choice well made.

Far as other options? Bardic Knack + Jack of All Trades functionally makes you have cross-class ranks in everything you don't have actual ranks in.

If you can get Intimidate as a class skill (Martial Study: Any Devoted Spirit Maneuver--either crusader strike for a mini-heal or vanguard strike to provide an attack bonus), Doomspeak is hilarious. -10 to saves for a full round based on a Will save DC of 10+ your Cha mod+ Your Level. (Seeing as there's no official errata for the book it's from [Champions of Ruin] that's the feat as written). It needs 8 ranks in intimidate and burns a single bardic music use, but -10 to saves on a higher-than-normal DC pretty much opens them up to a buddy spellcaster's save-or-lose. Who says that bards only help martials?

Far as spells? Grease is popular for a reason. Inspirational Boost cranks the main bard trick. Improvisation is a pool of luck points that improves with caster level and is uncapped. Magic Savant gives you +4 insight to UMD and lets you take 10 with 10 or more ranks. Alter Self shenanigans always welcome. Glitterdust is a combat trick. Entice Gift is great, in a "you want to hand me the Macguffin" sort of way. Or even just "you want to hand me the big crazy axe you've been swinging there." Dispel Magic is Dispel Magic. Haste is Haste. Listening Coin gives you an audio bug. Alter Fortune has an XP cost but lets your character reach onto the table and reroll a die. Glibness is the bard version of the Jedi Mind Trick. Getting up higher? Celerity is celerity. As a bonus, you're a bard, if you inspire courage with your action at the top of the initiative order, half your job is done. Shadow Conjuration gives you a bunch of options. Beyond 4th level spells, you have to ask the question "Am I prestiging into Sublime Chord"? If you are: pick spells off the wiz list, except when the bard list gives you them earlier.

[danielxcutter]

www.joshuad.net/new-bard-handbook/

This handbook is AWESOME. It's relatively new, so some people might not know about it yet...

Powerwise, though, Sublime Chord is a good choice. Straight Bard 20 can also kick ass really well, but Sublime Chord grants 9ths.