MW Skill Kits

[Umarth]

I was just curious do most people buy MW skill kits for things like:

Concentration, Survival, Bluff, Gather information, ect?

50gp for +2 to any skill seems like a steal.


Follow up question:
MW Swim Kit (+2 Swim checks) = Water Wings?

[Arbitrarity]

Y'know, I would, but I have a hard time convincing my DM on anything but what is listed, and the UMD booklet (there is actually one). Really, how do you get something that makes you more trustworthy to people, or more convincing, or even allows you to roll really well? Some things don't use items, just YOU.

[bbugg]

Are those things listed anywhere, or is that houseruled?
They don't seem to make much sense. I'd buy em if my DM wanted to play them, but as DM I wouldn't allow it unless I was shown some really convincing fluff.

[Arbitrarity]

For example, the Booklet (it's someone's booklet of something, but I can't remember) is a series of instructions on general techniques for invoking the powers of items, as well as a guide to terminology of scrolls, and also a guide on how to roleplay well. The roleplay guide bit is to duplicate alignment, class features, abilities, etc. The general techniques is to activate blindly, and also for the various wand/staff/scroll usage.

[Rachel Lorelei]

These things *do* exist. They are listed as "MW Tool" in the SRD/PHB, and they cost 100 gp. It's done that way, I think, largely because listing a tool for every skill where it's possible to have one would take up a lot of needless space.

A UMD tool could be a little crib sheet, or a bit of some kind of material that interacts positively with magic--call it "energized" or something. MW Tools for, oh, Sense Motive are much harder to come up with.

Keep in mind that you have to actually *use* a Tool when making the skill check to get the benefit. A book sitting in your backpack doesn't cut it; you'd have to pull it out and look through it.

[Umarth]

Under the equipment section is:
"Tool, Masterwork
This well-made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used toward the same skill check do not stack.

Tool, masterwork 50 gp 1 lb. "

Per the rules you can buy a masterwork tool that grants you a +2 bonus to a skill.

Special notebooks (gather info), lists (know local), glasses (search), books (know whatever), maps (know geography), How to win friends and influence people the scroll (diplomacy), scary knives (intimidate), blinders (concentration), could all be examples of MW tools not listed in the PHB.

[Rachel Lorelei]

The Diplomacy one wouldn't work--unless you want to be peeking at that scroll while you have an earnest heart-to-heart with someone!

[Keld Denar]

I'm a personal fan of the MW leotards for tumbling better, and the slippers for balancing.

[Drider]

Diplomacy could be nice clothes...or one of those pairs of glasses with the noce and moustache attached

[Quietus]

Diplomacy could be nice clothes...or one of those pairs of glasses with the noce and moustache attached

The glasses, nose, and mustache would be a Disguise thing, already covered.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Diplomacy is some shiney keys.

[Saph]

Nah, I stick with the ones listed. Getting a bonus to Climb from a climber's kit makes sense, but a 'tool' for something like Bluff just doesn't make any sense to me.

If you allow these, then at higher levels there's no reason for a character not to have a skill tool for every skill imaginable, since the cost is negligible. So all it really does is force the DM to put the skill DCs for everything 2 points higher. You also have to deal with issues like body slots and increased time to use the skill (unless you want to say that you get the bonus just from having the tool in your backpack). More work than I feel like dealing with.

- Saph

[Fax Celestis]

I have a character who uses a pair of spectacles as UMD aids.

[Skjaldbakka]

MW skill tools are just a way to justify a circumstance bonus. You should treat them like any other time a player wants a circumstance bonus- they have to give a good case for why X should give them a 10% better chance of succeeding at Y.

[Rachel Lorelei]

MW skill tools are just a way to justify a circumstance bonus. You should treat them like any other time a player wants a circumstance bonus- they have to give a good case for why X should give them a 10% better chance of succeeding at Y.

Except they're not an ad hoc circumstance bonus, they're right there in the equipment. I'm not sure why they need more than casual justification.

[Zeful]

Well the guides are a little hard because you're supposed to be using them as you make the check (ideally at least) how ever if you had read a guide on a subject (Gambler's tells: 1001 secrets to telling a bluff) a character would remember enough realavent information to get a bonus to the roll, it wouldn't be permanent but as long as you brushed up on it it shouldn't be a problem really.

None of this is supported by the RAW, and are just my thoughts.

[Arbitrarity]

My DM has a few books in one campaign. You read em, you get bonuses to specific skills (generally knowledge) and the ability to use them "untrained". I told him he might as well hand out bonus skill ranks to untrained characters with those. Also allowed taking 20 on knowledge skills with such books, assuming they are decent covering of subject.

For example, I now have a character lugging around a history textbook. Increased intelligence score represents ability to make deductions from such knowledge, thereby expanding your field.

[Ulzgoroth]

Except they're not an ad hoc circumstance bonus, they're right there in the equipment. I'm not sure why they need more than casual justification.
That is, perhaps, a valid reading...but in that case, why would anyone buy: Alchemist's Lab, any of the kits, magnifying glass, or mwk instruments? Seeing as all of those are inferior to simply buying a single mwk tool for the relevant skill.

RAW, it does seem you can and should do so. In fact, they seem to suggest it by giving the example of a climbers kit plus masterwork pitons. I think of that entry as more of a loose placeholder than anything solid, because it makes no sense in light of what exists. The pre-built 'mwk tool' type items have reasonable and interesting complexities that the simple template ignores.

[Nebnezz]

Remember also that the kits in the PHB refer to skills that need them to work. Without thieves tools, you have to improvise, no tools for -2 to check, working tools for normal and MW for bonus +2. Everyone has what they need for climbing, the tool could only make it easier, so it gives a bonus. The only possibility for a penalty because of having no tools on this one is to have no hands, and possibly, no feet, which i imagine would make functioning at all rather difficult. all crafters need tools, else they cannot craft, without proper ones they improv it for the negative 2. things like bluff and intimidate dont normally have tools, so lacking them wont give a negative, and in fact being stripped of all possessions wont stop someone from attempting an intimidate check ( it may in fact make them scarier) the concept behind a masterwork tool assumes a tool is needed and without it, one would have a tough time completing the task, if they were even able to start. the only exception i would make to this would be the healers check. proper tools make patching holes on flesh and making tournequetes easier but all you need is the shirt off your back and your hands, maybe a knife for making cuts in fabric, but hopefully you havent made a character handicapped by having no teeth.

My point is simply that masterwork tools exsist on the premise that a tool is necessary to make the check in the first place and just about any object can be well or poorly made.

[ArmorArmadillo]

The Diplomacy one wouldn't work--unless you want to be peeking at that scroll while you have an earnest heart-to-heart with someone!

Teeth whitening treatment?

Balance kit: 10 ft. pole and leotard

Bluff kit: Hypnodisk

Concentration kit: Magic eye picture

Tumble kit: Clown makeup

Listen: Old-Timey Earhorn

[Fax Celestis]

Teeth whitening treatment?

Balance kit: 10 ft. pole and leotard

Bluff kit: Hypnodisk

Concentration kit: Magic eye picture

Tumble kit: Clown makeup

Listen: Old-Timey Earhorn

Spot: spyglass
Search: magnifying glass
Hide: camouflage paint
Move Silently: felted shoes
Disable Device: trapsmithing tools
Appraise: Kelly Blue Book

[Collin152]

What about Decipher script? No love for the codex?

[Neek]

We all know that Spellcraft is the handy pocket Draconic and Draconic Sign Language > Common dictionary.

[Jack Mann]

What about Decipher script? No love for the codex?

Decipher script: Junior Adventurer Decoder Ring, yours with just fifty gold and five boxtops from Magic-Os cereal.

[Seffbasilisk]

For survival, one of my characters uses leather bracers with carvings all over them showing different animal tracks and cloud formations and whatnot.

[horseboy]

Decipher script: Junior Adventurer Decoder Ring, yours with just fifty gold and five boxtops from Magic-Os cereal.

You mean they aren't using those translator wheels from the old SSI D&D games?

[Diggorian]

I made a Lens for my party that needed to do tracking (grants Track feat and +4 Survival); it's more of a minor magic item though.

I could see a custom-tailored designer courtier's outfit giving a +2 bonus to Diplomacy and maybe Bluff. Soap and water just reduces penalties. And pulling out your copy of "Oldimara's Black tome of White Lies" would only increase them. :smallbiggrin:

Spyglass description is poor. Every degree of magnification should multiply the 10ft per -1 to spot. So double the size means -1 per 20ft, or per 40ft for Raptorans.

[bbugg]

My DM won't allow it. I just asked.

Even a working propeller on top won't let a Masterwork Thinking Cap give my Cleric a +2 on Concentration. Sheesh.

[kkortekaas]

Your DM must be a pretty smart guy...

[Citizen Joe]

Many of those bonuses only apply to the skill in a specific situation. Like the military saddle only gives the +2 bonus for checks involving staying in the saddle. It won't make the horse jump any better.

As for diplomacy, I think the noble clothes set mentions something about that. Maybe if you are NOT wearing it with a suitable amount of jewelry you may have a penalty... I dunno...

Ah here it is Courtier's outfit (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#courtiersOutfit)

[Diggorian]

Yeah, regular courtier garb reduces that penalty.

I was thinking of a "MW" outfit, sorta like a medieval Prada. Dress is very important for sales, which is bluff and diplomacy mainly.

[WhyBother]

The idea of a bluff kit reminded me of a story I heard long ago about a Yukon (if I recall correctly) gold-rush-era conman. He became very familiar with the practices of various secret societies and fraternities, and knew their secret handshakes, mottos, songs, oaths, and most of all recognized their pins. Whenever someone new arrived in town wearing a fraternity pin, he'd introduce himself, give them the secret handshake, reminisce about frat brothers he never had, and then give them a sob story about how he'd lost all his money in a scam, and now just wanted enough to head home. Made a killing off the generousity of frat brothers.

Bringing this back to the thread's context, a discrete list of organizations, rites of initiation, and signs that allow members to recognize each other might be handy for bluff or diplomacy....

My 2 cp:
I don't think this is supposed to apply to all skills so much as is it is replace the existing tools/kits and make their prices a uniform 50 gp. I know my group was never really interested in them, so maybe this is a half-hearted attempt to make them more appealing by giving them a uniform price and making them available for any skill your DM will allow. A MW Appraise tool might be a magnifier loupe; useless for starting fires (did anyone ever really bother with this use?), but also not restricted to appraising only things with fine detail. Considering the alchemy lab gives you a +2 circumstance bonus for 500 gp, and absolutely no penalties for not having one, this actually seems like a pretty good idea. Just replace existing kits and tools, and don't allow new uses and it should work fine.