Life Cleric Build - Need Help

[CharlesJT]

I wanted to ask a few optimization questions with regards to my Life Cleric, Father Scott.

For my ability scores, I chose Wisdom, Charisma and Constitution to focus on.

Life Cleric, Level 3
Variant Human (Healer Feat)

STR- 10
DEX- 9
CON- 16
INT- 11
WIS- 18
CHA- 17

AC- 18 (Chain Mail, Shield)
Speed- 20 (STR penalty)
Weapon- Mace (1d6) - rather weak lol

My main purpose for having the high Charisma is mostly Roleplay related as I'm the face and leader of our party. It was a hard choice as I had to give up Strength in the process. In doing so, I chose to wear heavy armor for the high AC, but had to take the speed penalty of (-10 feet) as I don't have the required STR. As I'm a Variant Human, I picked the Healer Feat. The reason I chose this was to conserve my spell slots for more than just healing, such as Bless, Command, Hold Person, etc. I also have Channel Divinity and will use that up first. My main goal is to keep the party alive AND provide buffs to party, CC, etc.

My question is when I level up to fourth level, I'm torn to pick either Inspiring Leader Feat or Magic Initiate Feat. The Inspiring Leader feat would be nice to have as it is proactive temporary hitpoints and as I have high Charisma, would be pretty nice to entire party. However, the Magic Initiate Feat with Sorcerer, I could get some nice damaging Cantrips such as Fire Bolt, Ray of Frost, and/or get Minor Illusion for confusing enemies, etc. For the 1st Level Spell, I was thinking Expeditious Retreat to get mobility if I need it on the battlefield. Please note, I don't want to go Druid with Shillelagh, Goodberry as I'm trying to avoid the Druid at all costs (bad experience last campaign).

I would really enjoy some expert advice with regards to the next feat choice, should I go Inspiring Leader or Magic Initiate? Should I focus on getting more HP for party or damaging cantrips? I really don't like Sacred Flame as it seems to be rather lackluster and hasn't been that effective in my quests. Thanks for your help! :smallsmile:

P.S. One more question, would you go Chain Mail with Speed Penalty, or Ring Mail with No Speed Penalty? Is losing 10 feet speed worth 2 Armor Class?

[Sir cryosin]

Here is a option take tough and pick up the spell warding bond. It's great for your party members but it does put a big toll on you specially if you don't have a lot of hit points. Also if you have access to magic items look for the pendant that gives you a 19 and Constitution.

[NNescio]

I wanted to ask a few optimization questions with regards to my Life Cleric, Father Scott.

For my ability scores, I chose Wisdom, Charisma and Constitution to focus on.

Life Cleric, Level 3
Variant Human (Healer Feat)

STR- 10
DEX- 9
CON- 16
INT- 11
WIS- 18
CHA- 17

AC- 18 (Chain Mail, Shield)
Speed- 20 (STR penalty)
Weapon- Mace (1d6) - rather weak lol

My main purpose for having the high Charisma is mostly Roleplay related as I'm the face and leader of our party. It was a hard choice as I had to give up Strength in the process. In doing so, I chose to wear heavy armor for the high AC, but had to take the speed penalty of (-10 feet) as I don't have the required STR. As I'm a Variant Human, I picked the Healer Feat. The reason I chose this was to conserve my spell slots for more than just healing, such as Bless, Command, Hold Person, etc. I also have Channel Divinity and will use that up first. My main goal is to keep the party alive AND provide buffs to party, CC, etc.

My question is when I level up to fourth level, I'm torn to pick either Inspiring Leader Feat or Magic Initiate Feat. The Inspiring Leader feat would be nice to have as it is proactive temporary hitpoints and as I have high Charisma, would be pretty nice to entire party. However, the Magic Initiate Feat with Sorcerer, I could get some nice damaging Cantrips such as Fire Bolt, Ray of Frost, and/or get Minor Illusion for confusing enemies, etc. For the 1st Level Spell, I was thinking Expeditious Retreat to get mobility if I need it on the battlefield. Please note, I don't want to go Druid with Shillelagh, Goodberry as I'm trying to avoid the Druid at all costs (bad experience last campaign).

I would really enjoy some expert advice with regards to the next feat choice, should I go Inspiring Leader or Magic Initiate? Should I focus on getting more HP for party or damaging cantrips? I really don't like Sacred Flame as it seems to be rather lackluster and hasn't been that effective in my quests. Thanks for your help! :smallsmile:

Usually I would not use Magic Initiate for attack cantrips on a Cleric due to issues with different spellcasting ability scores, but with your 17 Cha I guess it can be quite practical. I respect your decision for going with that stat distribution (and the reason for that decision), so let's work with what we got.

If you pick Magic Initiate: Sorcerer, you get weaker attack cantrips compared to, say, Magic Initiate: Warlock for Eldritch Blast. It does let you get Shield as your 1/day first level spell though, which can really push your AC through the roof as a heavy armor shield user. This can really save you when you become a priority target for your enemies especially if you like the use Spirit Guardians, Bless, or some other strong concentration spell. Firebolt is generally the go-to attack cantrip, or maybe something like Chill Touch or Ray of Frost if you like rider effects to support your teammates.

If you pick Warlock, you get Eldritch Blast, the strongest attack cantrip in the game (even if you don't have Hex or Invocations to back it up). This cantrip fires additional bolts of force as you increase in character level (instead of firing a single projectile with higher damage), making it the spellcaster's equivalent of a martial's Extra Attack. This makes it more reliable when you need to hit things. As the 1st level spell, I would suggest something like Hellish Rebuke which lets you deal damage as a reaction. It may also discourage your enemies from continue to attack you, depending on how your DM roleplays them.

I would recommend against Expeditious Retreat, as it takes up your concentration to maintain. This means no Bless, Spirit Guardians, and a lot of strong Cleric spells that require concentration. It also requires a bonus action to use the Dash it grants, and as a Cleric you have a strong spells competing for your bonus actions like Spiritual Weapon (basically gives you a bonus action semi-range attack for its duration) and Healing Word (this brings up downed allies at range). That said, if you feel you really need the extra movement, then take it -- 20 ft movement is crippling, and you can't exactly switch to medium armor

For your 2nd cantrip I would recommend a utility one like Minor Image or perhaps Mold Earth (set up encampments and pittraps). Minor Image has significant synergy with Chill Touch, as it allows you to hide in the illusion and attack with advantage (you get advantage on attack rolls against enemies who can't see you, even if they know you're there) with Chill Touch without breaking the illusion (since you create it "in the space of a creature within range", so you never physically interact with the illusion).

Now, Inspiring Leader is a very strong feat, as it gives scaling temporary HP to your allies. I would actually recommend against it though, because I do think that you already have a lot of ways to heal your allies.

(Healer on a Life Cleric is already a bit overkill, IMHO, because you have Channel Divinity.)

[Sans.]

You're gonna have trouble with those low physical stats. Healer is kinda bad after a few levels, but because you're Life Cleric, you won't have too much trouble healing. I'd say Inspiring Leader to help reduce the spell slot tax a bit more, but Magic Initiate could work too. If you're gonna focus on buffs and CC, maybe try the Bard spell list - maybe Vicious Mockery, Minor Illusion and Heroism?

[Biggstick]

The Inspiring Leader Feat is going to get you more bang for your buck overall, especially with your Charisma as high as it is.

The Healer feat provides a bit more hp, but as someone who's playing a level 10 Life Cleric in a primarily dungeon crawl game, you're going to have enough healing. Your Channel Divinity + Mass Healing Word will be your amazing aoe combination (Channel Divinity refreshes on a short rest, and you'll get two uses of it per short rest. You should use this to heal allies instead of spells when you can). Healing Word for spot heals, and Prayer of Healing for group out of combat healing. The Healer feat simply provides a tiny bit more healing, which with the Life Cleric's capabilities, is just overkill. Now those temporary hit points granted by Inspiring Leader? You are literally creating a second hp pool for your allies that they probably didn't already have access to. You're pretty much increasing their maximum hp by taking the feat, where as the Healer feat just makes your Healer kit usage a tiny bit better by granting some hp when used.

Magic Initiate is a nice ability, in that it can grant you a ranged Charisma based cantrip to help with your range. In my mind, you already have a solid cantrip that works at range and melee in Sacred Flame. I know you said you're not a fan of it, but hey man, you're playing a Cleric. It's your bread and butter. What I would look at instead is grabbing the Warcaster or Mobile feat. Warcaster would be a huge boon to helping you maintain concentration checks on Bless and open up your opportunity attacks to spells like Sacred Flame, Command, Blindness/Deafness, Hold Person, Bestow Curse, etc. Mobile on the other hand, takes care of your mobility debuff and puts you back to 30' while granting you some pretty nifty utility in being able to get away from (or into) combat situations. Given the choice at level 4 overall, I'd go with Warcaster.

[Citan]

I wanted to ask a few optimization questions with regards to my Life Cleric, Father Scott.

For my ability scores, I chose Wisdom, Charisma and Constitution to focus on.

Life Cleric, Level 3
Variant Human (Healer Feat)

STR- 10
DEX- 9
CON- 16
INT- 11
WIS- 18
CHA- 17

AC- 18 (Chain Mail, Shield)
Speed- 20 (STR penalty)
Weapon- Mace (1d6) - rather weak lol

My main purpose for having the high Charisma is mostly Roleplay related as I'm the face and leader of our party. It was a hard choice as I had to give up Strength in the process. In doing so, I chose to wear heavy armor for the high AC, but had to take the speed penalty of (-10 feet) as I don't have the required STR. As I'm a Variant Human, I picked the Healer Feat. The reason I chose this was to conserve my spell slots for more than just healing, such as Bless, Command, Hold Person, etc. I also have Channel Divinity and will use that up first. My main goal is to keep the party alive AND provide buffs to party, CC, etc.

My question is when I level up to fourth level, I'm torn to pick either Inspiring Leader Feat or Magic Initiate Feat. The Inspiring Leader feat would be nice to have as it is proactive temporary hitpoints and as I have high Charisma, would be pretty nice to entire party. However, the Magic Initiate Feat with Sorcerer, I could get some nice damaging Cantrips such as Fire Bolt, Ray of Frost, and/or get Minor Illusion for confusing enemies, etc. For the 1st Level Spell, I was thinking Expeditious Retreat to get mobility if I need it on the battlefield. Please note, I don't want to go Druid with Shillelagh, Goodberry as I'm trying to avoid the Druid at all costs (bad experience last campaign).

I would really enjoy some expert advice with regards to the next feat choice, should I go Inspiring Leader or Magic Initiate? Should I focus on getting more HP for party or damaging cantrips? I really don't like Sacred Flame as it seems to be rather lackluster and hasn't been that effective in my quests. Thanks for your help! :smallsmile:

P.S. One more question, would you go Chain Mail with Speed Penalty, or Ring Mail with No Speed Penalty? Is losing 10 feet speed worth 2 Armor Class?
Honestly, I would go with Magic Initiate: Warlock instead of Sorcerer, at least if your focus is sustained damage.
Unless you really wanted Mage Armor, 1/day Shield is nice but not enough to my taste when going Warlock nets you both Eldricht Blast AND Booming Blade.
AND you could take Comprehend Languages as your 1/day spell, which will usually be enough for any day, but is totally coherent with your role of party face.

Inspiring Leader is a very nice feat, and will help you every day, but I feel it's value lessens as you progress in spite of the natural increase, because the monsters hit much harder.
Still, if you don't care that much about dealing damage "directly" (you still have Sacred Flame when really needed), it's a very good pick, and also right on track for your character.

In short:
focus on "party": Inspiring Leader
focus on utility: Sorcerer (utility cantrips + Shield)
focus on damage: Warlock (Eldricht Blast + Booming Blade).

[coredump]

I see no decent reason t take Magic Initiate. Inspring leader is good, and seems to fit your character concept. Could also go with stat bumps. +1 Cha +1 Wis, then Res(Con) feat next time.

[Specter]

To me it doesn't even make sense that a STR10 guy can carry a full plate around.

[bid]

As I'm a Variant Human, I picked the Healer Feat. The reason I chose this was to conserve my spell slots for more than just healing, such as Bless, Command, Hold Person, etc.
Then don't pick life.

Life domain is good because every slot used for healing is better. If you never use the features, you might as well choose another domain that has some use to you.

[NNescio]

Honestly, I would go with Magic Initiate: Warlock instead of Sorcerer, at least if your focus is sustained damage.
Unless you really wanted Mage Armor, 1/day Shield is nice but not enough to my taste when going Warlock nets you both Eldricht Blast AND Booming Blade.
AND you could take Comprehend Languages as your 1/day spell, which will usually be enough for any day, but is totally coherent with your role of party face.

Inspiring Leader is a very nice feat, and will help you every day, but I feel it's value lessens as you progress in spite of the natural increase, because the monsters hit much harder.
Still, if you don't care that much about dealing damage "directly" (you still have Sacred Flame when really needed), it's a very good pick, and also right on track for your character.

In short:
focus on "party": Inspiring Leader
focus on utility: Sorcerer (utility cantrips + Shield)
focus on damage: Warlock (Eldricht Blast + Booming Blade).

BB/GFB might be a little hard to land reliably with only STR 10 / DEX 9 though.

[Citan]

BB/GFB might be a little hard to land reliably with only STR 10 / DEX 9 though.

Dang, you are so right. DIdn't pay attention to STR/DEX stats.
Nevermind me then about weapon cantrips, this was a very bad suggestion. :smalltongue:

To OP: Hmm. Since I know now that only WIS and CHA are really usable...
If you want to stay on picking a Magic Initiate-CHA based class, then Sorcerer may be the best choice after all (only considering damage here). Warlock gets only Chill Touch (too situational rider), Create Bonfire (concentration, so not a good choice) and Frostbite (decent choice).
Whereas Sorcerer gets the whole thing: Ray of Frost, Firebolt, Shocking Grasp, etc...

So basically it's either you are fine with having only a ranged attack, and you can pick Warlock with Eldricht Blast and a utility (Minor Illusion or Mage Hand), or pick Sorcerer to get powerful melee (Shocking Grasp) and ranged (any you want).

Now, bear with me: the most sensible choice for you if you go Magic Initiate could very well be Druid.
(Ok I won't detail since you don't want to talk about it, but I was gonna recommand Thorns Whip, Produce Flame and Absorb Elements: first to synergyze with SP, second to get a ranged attack/utility, third as a 1/day defense against nasty spell).

[djreynolds]

+2 wisdom. It affects all your stuff healing, spells and channel divinity... which short rest dependent.

Sacred flame is your go to spell with a low strength and not using shillelagh. It can be used in melee. Yes it is save or pass... so up wisdom.

Warding bond is awesome... use it.

[jaappleton]

Then don't pick life.

Life domain is good because every slot used for healing is better. If you never use the features, you might as well choose another domain that has some use to you.

On the contrary, all the more reason to take Life. By healing for more, Life Clerics are capable of stretching their resources further.

"Why cast Cure Wounds and spend a spell slot when I can CHANNEL DIVINITY?!"