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Durzan
2017-03-10, 02:38 PM
A while ago, I developed the backbone for a system of magic for Forgotten Prophecies RPG. This system is built using a hybrid of 3.5E/Pathfinder, Star Wars Saga Edition, and bits of 5th edition.


Lore:


Magic is the manipulation of the mysterious forces that comprises everything that exists within the universe. Those that can tap into this force can wield unparalleled power, but at a great cost.

Like Science, Magic has rules that can be researched and used. Theoretically speaking, nothing is impossible to do with magic, provided you've done the necessary research, know the rules, and have enough power to actually cast the spell.

In practice however, magic often has unpredictable effects, making the research of spells extremely difficult, particularly for more powerful abilities such as Resurrection and Long-Range Teleportation. Numerous times, Wizards have devised spells with the intention of doing such effects, only to find that in practice the spell was inherently unstable (and therefore collapsed into a random magical effect, usually ranging from a harmless puff of smoke, to turning the caster into a toad, or even causing a massive explosion), or had a completely unintended effect.


The Spark: In order to use magic, you have to be born with the ability to do so. This ability, called the Spark, can be detected by other magic users. The Spark usually becomes apparent to other magic users when a child starts going through Puberty, although for some magic users, the spark manifested a little earlier in their life. Magic users abilities may manifest much later than their Spark, but eventually they will reveal themselves. An untrained magic user is a danger to herself and those around her, particularly when their abilities first manifest. Hence, most magic users are taught by Spirits, other magic users, or even the gods themselves. A self-taught magic user is a very rare spectacle, but not impossible.

Primal Energy (or Wild Energy) is the most fundamental substance/force in the universe. From it the basic building blocks of reality, the fundamental forces of reality, and laws of nature are formed and governed. All things are a derivative of Primal Energy in one form or another. Primal Energy is extremely hard to manipulate, to the point that it can't be used as a direct energy source for spells, although it can be purified into mana.

Pure Energy is refined primal energy. Also known as Mana or Life Force, pure energy is what sparks the gift of life in beings. Easy to manipulate and direct, it is the primary source of all magic. Can be harvested from living creatures or created synthetically from Primal Energy through a process called Charging. Excess energy can be stored within a person's body (At risk of the subject exploding), or can be stored within a Mana Battery.

Casting Spells: Casting spells is typically accomplished by harnessing stored Mana and directing it through the use of Gestures (Somatic Components) and Incantations (Verbal Components). More experienced Magic Users can craft a Focus, which can allow the user to cast a spell faster, with less mana, or even bypass the needed Gestures or Incantations.
Some Magic Users can just bend pure energy to their whims with their thoughts alone, with no need for focuses or complicated spells (although doing so can make casting a spell much easier). However, even the Greatest of Magic Users can only achieve this feat after years of training and practice before one can even think about accomplishing this.

Charging: All Magic Users are born with the ability to generate Mana through a process called Charging. In this process, a Magic User reaches out with their mind and "turns a faucet" to allow a torrent of Wild Energy to surge through their mind, which purifies the energy into mana. A magic user can adjust the flow of Wild Energy into their mind; this process can be akin to pipes... the stronger the magic user, the larger the flow of energy the magic user is able to withstand. Increasing the flow of Primal Energy increases the pressure of the energy. Higher pressure means more mana gets generated at any given moment.

While this is an efficient process, it is of course dangerous. The process of Charging exhausts the caster physically and mentally, and if the person is exposed to too much energy or exposed for too long, then they risk serious damage to their mind and body, which often results in the caster going insane... or even death. While some can endure for longer periods than most, even the strongest of magic users can and will eventually succumb to the effects of overexposure if they aren't careful.

Overcharging: When a magic user of sufficient strength is able to cast spells while simultaneously Charging up their mana. Often thought to be impossible, this is a very rare and dangerous ability that only the strongest of casters seem to be able to pull off successfully. This ability cannot be maintained for very long, as it exposes a person's mind to the full force of Primal Energy, and can do massive damage to someone's mind if kept up for longer than that person can handle. Most Magic users can't Overcharge for more than a minute or so before their bodies start to wear out and their mind starts taking damage.

Focuses: Special magical items, attuned to the magic user that crafted it, which makes it easier to cast spells. Often takes the form of a wand, ring, or staff. Many experienced wizards have figured out how to cast spells with just their Focuses, to the point where most become almost completely dependent upon their Focus. A few clever spellcasters often carry around multiple focuses in case one of them gets lost or stolen, or continue practicing using Gestures and Incantations so that they are never entirely helpless.

Mana Batteries: Gemstones and Precious Metals can be used to safely store Mana. When charged with such Energy, it is called a Mana Battery. Mana Batteries are often seen as orbs of metal, or a carved gem set on a ring or the tip of a wand. Many spell casters use their Focus as a Mana Battery, or have a gem set into their focus which acts as a mana battery.

Weaknesses: Because of how magic works, Magic Users while versatile and powerful, still have their weaknesses. If you bind and gag them, or take away their focuses and mana batteries, then it becomes really hard for most of them to cast spells.


Mechanics:


All Spell Casters Start knowing: 1 Domain, 5 1st level spells within their Domain, and a number of bonus spells equal to their Intelligence Modifier. The bonus spells can come from any Domain.

Spell-Casting Ability: Choose either Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma to base your spell casting skill off of. Once determined, this cannot be changed. Which one you choose determines where you are drawing your power from, and how you cast your spells. This is what determines what ability you use for your Magic Skill.


Intelligence: Your experience in magic is based around logic and reason. While you have had the ability to use magic in you since the day you were born, you draw your magical power from your own knowledge, intellect, and expertise (AKA, you are likely a Wizard or Mage). To you, magic is a force of nature, with observable rules and limitations, and through years of study, you have learned how to harness it through disciplined study and experimentation. Magic is logical, if sometimes a little unpredictable, and while you may not know all the rules or loopholes, you can surely discover them and use them to your advantage. Much of your current knowledge has come through formal magical education and through studying academic books and scrolls on magic theory; As such, you have a broader knowledge of spells and their capabilities. You have probably been apprenticed into an official spell-casting organization, such as the Order of Magi. As such, you have an instructor or mentor to whom you are apprenticed or to whom you go to in order to learn. Magic is an Intelligence Based Skill, because without Logic and Reason, you couldn’t have figured out how spells worked. It is your knowledge and study of Magic that grants you proficiency over it. You start off knowing an extra 5 spells, and 1 extra domain.




Wisdom: Your experience with magic is spiritual or religious in nature. You draw your power directly from either a Deity or the spirits of nature. Through this connection you have become their servant, and in exchange they are your teacher (IE You are a Cleric, Shaman, or a Druid). You are taught directly by the Nature Spirits, or by your chosen Deity. You may or may not be part of a religious organization. Magic is a Wisdom based skill, due to you having to appeal to a Deity or Spirit to teach and guide you. You begin play knowing 2 extra spells and 1 extra domain. You Maximum mana is increased by 50.




Charisma: Your experience with magic is based off of instinct and emotion. Your power is drawn from deep within, and you tap into that raw power instinctually. Magic is primal, instinctual and mysterious to you. Although you have little formal training, Magic comes really easy to you. You are not sure exactly how you are able to cast spells, but you do so with a surprising amount of skill and power. Much of your current magical knowledge has come through self-guided trial and error, instinctual casting of spells, and through secret observation of other magic users. (AKA, You are a Sorcerer or Shaman). You are most likely either self-taught or apprenticed to a mentor that is independent of a formal magic organization. Magic is a Charisma based skill, as through your own your own force of will, you have overcome the challenges associated with learning magic without a teacher. Your maximum mana is increased by 100.


Components: Casting a spell requires 4 components in order to work. If any of these are interrupted, then the spell fails. If you are unable to do any of these, then you can’t cast spells at all.


You must have enough mana to cast the spell. If you are out of mana or have lost your Mana Battery, tough luck. (Energy Component)
You must have your Focus in order to cast spells. (Focal Component)
You must be able to speak (Vocal Component)
You must be able to Gesture with at least one hand (Somatic Component)
Some Talents can eliminate the need of some of these components, but all spells will require the Energy Component.


Magical Focus: In order to help you draw out your magical power, you created a magical item that serves as a focus for you magical power. This item typically takes the form of a wand, staff, ring, or pendant, but it can be any item that you can wear, hold, or wield as a weapon (provided you are proficient with it of course), but it always has some type of crystal set into it to act as a Mana Battery (see below). The Focus is specifically attuned to you, and will only work for you. As long as you are holding or wearing your focus then you can cast a spell.
If you lose possession of your Focus, then you cannot cast spells until you retrieve it, or create a new one.

Mana Battery: In order to serve as a safe storage for Mana, you have acquired a specially prepared gemstone or small pearl of precious metal that serves as a storage container for your Mana. This “Mana Battery” is either a part of your Magical Focus, or is its own separate magical item. If you lose your Mana Battery, you cannot cast spells, because all of the energy that you have stored into your Mana Battery is gone. If you do lose it, you cannot cast spells until you either acquire or create a new one.

Mana: A Magic User can store a maximum amount of mana in their Mana Battery equal to 100 x (Spell Casting Ability).
At first level, Spell-Casting Characters start play with an amount of mana equal to (10 x Spell Casting Ability)

Charging: A magic user can gather and purify an amount of mana equal to 10 x (Spell Casting Ability + Level). This process can be done once per day after at least 8 hours of rest.
A magic user can generate additional mana, but doing so is extremely dangerous and exhausting. If the caster attempts to do so, they must succeed a magic check (DC 20 + 2 for every previous attempt). If they succeed, then they charge an amount of mana equal to [10 x (Spell Casting Ability Modifier + Level)].
If the caster fails, then they take 1d4 points of temporary Ability Score Damage to a random mental ability score. These recover at a rate of 1 point per day.

Domains: Spells are classified into groups known as Domains, also known as Schools. The Domains each represent a collection of spells that all function similarly, or revolve around a similar philosophy. Domains and their themes are:


Red: Fire, Lava, Aggressive, Destruction
Orange: Summoning, Conjuring, Animating, Directing.
Yellow: Air, Lightning, Weather, Scrying, Avoiding.
Green: Earth, Acid, Nature, Defensive.
Blue: Water, Ice, Enchanting, Redirecting, Countering.
Purple: Illusion, Psychic, Compulsion, Deception.
White: Healing, Positive Energy, Light, Resurrection, and Life
Black: Necromancy, Negative Energy, Darkness, and Death


Starting out you choose one domain to specialize in, which represents the philosophy with which you identify the strongest with. Magic Talents can allow you to learn a new domain, but never a domain of opposing color to one you already know. Spells within your domain are easier for you to learn and cast. Spells outside your domain are harder to learn and cast, but are still manageable. Domains of opposing color are much harder for you to cast (EG, Red/Green, Blue/Orange, Yellow/Purple, White/Black).

Universal Spells: Universal Spells, such as Elemental Blast, are spells who either don’t have a specific domain, or who’s domain change depending on how the spell is cast.
Single-Domain Spells: Some spells can only fit into one domain.
Multi-domain Spells: Most spells don’t fit solidly into a single domain, instead fitting into 2 or more domains. In this case, if you are a part of any of the domains that the spell belongs to, then you can cast it at a reduced mana cost according to the rules below.


Casting A Spell: Casting a spell has a base mana cost equal to 10 x Spell’s Level, and requires making a Magic Skill check (DC 10 + Spell Level). If it succeeds, the spell is cast; If the check fails, then the mana is spent and the spell doesn’t do anything.


Spells outside of a known domain have a base cost of 20 x spell Level
Spells in a Domain opposing one you know have a base cost of 30 x spell Level.
Spell-Casting is usually a Standard action, but some spells may be a swift, or a full-round action in order to cast.
If casting a spell at a target, you roll against their target defense instead. Most of the time a spell will target either Reflex (If the spell effect can logically be dodged) or Will (if the spell is mind affecting). GM’s this might seem awkward, so feel free to adjust it.


Splices: Splices are optional effects that can be woven into certain spells. Doing so increases the base spell level of the spell by the amount given in the splice description.

Durzan
2017-03-10, 02:42 PM
Magical Talent Trees:


Improved Spellcasting Talent Tree: As Magic Users become more skilled, they find ways to improve their magical abilities.

Improved Focus: When using your Focus to cast a spell, you gain advantage on Magic checks. Type: Passive

Eliminate Focus: You do not need a focus in order to cast spells. Casting a spell this way is less efficient than normal, and as such it requires more mana. Therefore, casting a spell without a focus costs an additional 10 mana per spell level. (So, casting a spell within domains you know will cost 20 x spell level, while it becomes 30 x spell level for spells outside your domain, or 40 x spell level if in an opposing domain.) Type: Passive. Prerequisite: Feats: Magical Blood. Talents: Improved Focus. Skills: Magic Attack Skill of +2 or Greater Normal: Without this talent, you wouldn’t be able to cast spells at all without your focus.

Efficient Spell-casting: You have learned how to cast spells with as little mana required as possible. All spells cast now cost 1/2 their original mana cost. A spell in your domain is cost 50% mana, while a spell outside your domain costs 100% mana instead of 200%, and opposing domains cost 150% instead of 300%. Prerequisite: Feats: Magical Blood, Talents: Eliminate Focus, Skills: Magic Attack Skill of +5 or Greater. Normal: Without this Talent, all spells cost their standard total mana cost.

Silent Spell: You can cast any spell without having to use verbal components. Type: Passive Prerequisite: Feats: Magical Blood, Skills: Magic Attack Skill of +2 or Greater, Ability Scores: Casting Ability of 15+. Normal: Without this talent, you must be able to speak in order to cast spells.

Still Spell: You can cast any spell without having to use somatic components. Type: Passive Prerequisite: Feats: Magical Blood, Skills: Magic Attack Skill of +2 or Greater, Ability Scores: Casting Ability of 15+. Normal: Without this talent, you must be able to gesture with one free hand in order to cast spells.

Living Battery: You have learned how to store excess mana within your own body. You may store an amount of mana equal to (10 x Constitution Score) in your body. However doing so is dangerous, for it puts you at risk of exploding. Whenever someone deals damage to your wound points, you must make a Toughness Check (DC 10 +1 per point of damage taken, Fail: Take 1d6 Damage. Success negates.) or else a portion of mana escapes from your body in an explosive manner. Prerequisite: Feats: Magical Blood, Skills: Magic Attack Skill of +2 or Greater. Normal: Without this Talent, you cannot store Mana within your own body.

Quickened Spell: When casting a spell, you may spend an extra 20 mana to decrease the casting time of a spell by one step. This ability is not effected by Efficient Spell-Casting. Type: Active—Declared, no action taken. Prerequisite: Feats: Magical Blood, Talents: Eliminate Focus, Efficient Spell-casting. Skills: Magic Attack Skill of +5 or Greater, Ability Scores: Casting Ability of 15+.

Meta-Magic Talents: Many magic users discover abilities that make their spells more effective than normal. Such abilities typically cost additional mana to use.

Maximize Spell: Your spell has the maximum possible effect. When this talent is used on a spell, any variable numeric effects are automatically maximized. Type: Active — Declared, +3 to spell level.

Shape Spell: You can shape an AOE spell to fit a given shape of your choice. Type: Active — Declared, +1 to spell level.

Long Range Spell: You can increase the Range of a spell by 1 step. Type: Active — Declared, +2 to spell level for each increase. Special: You can take this talent multiple times. Each time you do so, it allows you to increase the range of any spell cast by 1 additional step.

Widen Spell: You can double the area of an AOE spell. Type: Active — Declared, +1 to spell level for each increase. Special: You can take this talent multiple times. Each time you do so, it allows you to increase the area of the spell by an additional factor of 1.



Sample Spells


Elemental Blast

Spell Type: Combat
Domains: See Description
Level: 1-10
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Short (30 ft)
Targets/Area: Single Target
Effect: A ray of light that deals a single type of elemental damage of the user’s choice.
Duration: Instantaneous
Check: Magic Attack
Defense: Reflex Defense
Critical Threat: N/A

Description: You call forth a beam of elemental energy which strikes a single target of your choice. The target must be within line of sight, and must be within range (See the spell’s range). Elemental Blast deals 1d6 points of elemental damage per spell level, up to a maximum of 10d6 to the target should the ray hit. The element chosen affects which domain the spell is considered for the purpose of casting this spell.

Fire: Red and Orange Domain
Lighting (Air): Yellow Domain
Acid (Earth): Green Domain
Cold (Water): Blue Domain
Sonic: Purple Domain
Positive Energy: White Domain
Negative Energy: Black Domain

Explosion

Spell Type: Splice
Splice Level Adjustment: +2
Effect: Explosion with a 10-ft radius.

Description: You have modified a spell that usually affects a single target to cause an explosion within a 10 ft radius of the target, dealing an extra 2d6 points of damage to everyone within the blast. The effects of the base spell are also amplified, so that they effect everyone within the blast radius as well. Anyone whose reflex defense proves greater than the casters magic roll takes 1/2 damage.

Heal

Spell Type: Utility
Domains: White
Level: 2
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Targets: Single Target
Effect: You heal some of the wounds of the target.
Duration: Instantaneous
Defense: Will Defense


Description: By laying your hands upon the target, you heal up to 1d6 Wound points, or 2d6 vitality points.

Durzan
2017-03-10, 02:44 PM
<Reserved for additional information if needed>

Durzan
2017-03-11, 02:53 PM
Q&A:


The Mana system sort of reminds me of Anima Beyond Fantasy's Zeon system, in that it's very possible that refilling your tank to full will take a few days.

Main question I have is that I don't have context for the rest of your system here. I don't know what a "Magic check" is, or what a "Toughness check". The underlying system seems good, but without context for the rest of the game it's difficult to say much. (That's probably why not many other people are sure what to say, because you've built a sub-system off a heavily modified base.)

With that said: I don't usually like systems that require you to roll for use; consume a limited resource without any benefit. Especially because I'm not sure if a Magic check is an unmodified attribute check or something like a skill check, so I don't know what the success rate is.

Maybe a general overview of your base-line changes to the overall d20 system?

​One of the early versions of the base system is linked in my sig. A Magic Check is basically a skill check.

Most everything in Forgotten Prophecies is based around the skill system: Attacks, Defenses (What used to be saves), normal skills etc.

Skill-points are kept, but are normally capped at 10 ranks per skill, (12 ranks if its a skill you are proficient with... IE if you got a skill from your background or class). Every player receives 4+int modifier per level. 1 skill point is equal to 1 rank... period. Backgrounds and classes grant you an extra rank in a number of skills of your choice from a list, and push the maximum ranks up to 12 for those skills.

Advantage and Disadvantage system added in from 5th edition.

So on and so forth.



I may have missed it, but is every player in this system a magic user? It's cool no matter what the answer is, I'm just curious. :)

Nope, not all players in the system would necessarily have the ability to use magic. Though all players could choose to start out with the Magic User base class, or multi-class into it later on...

Fluff-wise: Not just anyone can become a magic user... you have to be born with the ability... the Spark, if you will.

Alright my fellow Brothers and Sisters in our love for Homebrewed RPGs, Suggest and Critique away! Questions are of course welcome as well.

Are there any more questions? Or can we get to critiquing and suggestions...

Jorgumander
2017-03-13, 10:28 PM
I may have missed it, but is every player in this system a magic user? It's cool no matter what the answer is, I'm just curious. :)

Zale
2017-03-17, 09:20 PM
The Mana system sort of reminds me of Anima Beyond Fantasy's Zeon system, in that it's very possible that refilling your tank to full will take a few days.

Main question I have is that I don't have context for the rest of your system here. I don't know what a "Magic check" is, or what a "Toughness check". The underlying system seems good, but without context for the rest of the game it's difficult to say much. (That's probably why not many other people are sure what to say, because you've built a sub-system off a heavily modified base.)

With that said: I don't usually like systems that require you to roll for use; consume a limited resource without any benefit. Especially because I'm not sure if a Magic check is an unmodified attribute check or something like a skill check, so I don't know what the success rate is.

Maybe a general overview of your base-line changes to the overall d20 system?

noob
2017-03-19, 02:57 PM
Tons of those talents needs a feat called magical blood which is nowhere to be found.
Furthermore when do you get feats or talents or skills?

Durzan
2017-03-20, 12:07 PM
Tons of those talents needs a feat called magical blood which is nowhere to be found.
Furthermore when do you get feats or talents or skills?

My gosh, I really need to update that old thread...

Anyway, talents you get at 1st level and every even level thereafter... or something like that... still up in the air as I'm still designing the system. Feats you get one at 1st level, and every odd level thereafter... or something like that. Not really sure if feats are really necessary in addition to Talents... could just merge the two.

This feat is a tad out of date, and/or may be changed later...

Magical Blood: The user was born with the latent ability to use magic. Benefit: The user has the potential to use magic. This ability remains latent until the character takes a level in the Magic User class or an equivalent class. Normal: A character without this feat cannot take a level in the Magic User class (or an equivalent class), cannot cast spells or use the Magic Skill. They also cannot sense nearby magic users, the casting of spells, or even see the flows of magical energy in the world. Special: A 1st level Magic User receives this feat for free.

Magical Blood is a feat that anyone can get, that really doesn't do jack-squat. Lore-wise, it represents the fact that the player has the latent ability to use magic, but who hasn't unlocked it yet by taking a level in a spell-casting class. Mechanically, it is supposed to act as a small feat tax put in place to limit multi-classing into spell-casting classes after 1st level, and thereby allowing their characters to easily gain the ability to use magic. Characters who take Magic User as their starting class receive it automatically at 1st level; this is kinda like how in 5th edition, each class has prerequisites in order to multi-class into them. Since I consider it bad form to restrict feats and talents to specific classes (makes the system less modular), I figured making Magical Blood a requirement for taking meta-magic talents would be appropriate.

noob
2017-03-20, 02:51 PM
I think intelligence seems a great spell-casting stat: not only you get bonus spells for high int but you also get a bunch more bonus spells and a bonus domain.
If there is a thing such as will saves(like in D20 modern) then wisdom must be a good casting stat too(you will get a lot less spells but still have the bonus domain and for compensating you bet a little bit of energy).
But I have no idea when charisma casting ever could be useful(yes having a lot of energy allows to have longer work days but is it worth when compared to will saves and/or bonus spells)
Furthermore if charisma is about social interaction skills then you probably need only one person with it.
However I have a question since you store mana in mana batteries: how much does one of them store and what forbids you from having 4 mana batteries and when depleting one use another
"If you do lose it, you cannot cast spells until you either acquire or create a new one. " so I could have a mana focus fill it then give it to the party fighter then build a new one then fill it then give it back to the party fighter then the day where you deplete your mana battery drop it and ask back the old one to the party fighter.(and reload later those mana batteries)
Now let us say that I am an evil magic user cheater optimizer
I start with the Tal’dori race and I maximize intelligence(gets me to 16 points) then I take the subrace Cityfolk for more int(4 more) so I have 20 int at start(this race should get more balanced basically you get tons of bonus for no reason other than "can not get in thin corridors").
then I can pick up magic using as main skill and I spend 7 skill points(I have the right to do that since I have 5 int modifier) so I get one bonus point to magic using then I have a total of 7 in magic using at level 1(basically half of the maximum) and I have 700 mana so if I can cast only level 1 spells I need to cast 70 of them if in my domain to deplete my battery or 23 spells of an opposing domain.

Durzan
2017-03-23, 08:31 AM
Now we are talking! This is the kind of critique that I was kinda looking for... though paragraphs would make reading what you say a whole lot easier...


I think intelligence seems a great spell-casting stat: not only you get bonus spells for high int but you also get a bunch more bonus spells and a bonus domain.
If there is a thing such as will saves(like in D20 modern) then wisdom must be a good casting stat too(you will get a lot less spells but still have the bonus domain and for compensating you bet a little bit of energy).
But I have no idea when charisma casting ever could be useful(yes having a lot of energy allows to have longer work days but is it worth when compared to will saves and/or bonus spells)Furthermore if charisma is about social interaction skills then you probably need only one person with it.

Good point, I would have to think on that a bit more.




However I have a question since you store mana in mana batteries: how much does one of them store and what forbids you from having 4 mana batteries and when depleting one use another
"If you do lose it, you cannot cast spells until you either acquire or create a new one. " so I could have a mana focus fill it then give it to the party fighter then build a new one then fill it then give it back to the party fighter then the day where you deplete your mana battery drop it and ask back the old one to the party fighter.(and reload later those mana batteries)

You can have multiple mana batteries, but only one focus can be attuned to you at a time. That doesn't stop you from carrying around a spare ring to act as a backup focus that could easily be attuned to you, though.

Mana batteries do not come pre-filled with mana, as without energy stored inside them, they are just regular gemstones... you'd have to fill it with mana yourself. It is also worth noting that mana batteries can be recharged as neccesary and don't need to be thrown out when you finish using them up. It'd be kinda hard to replace a dud mana battery that has been attached to your focus, now would it?


Now let us say that I am an evil magic user cheater optimizer
I start with the Tal’dori race and I maximize intelligence(gets me to 16 points) then I take the subrace Cityfolk for more int(4 more) so I have 20 int at start(this race should get more balanced basically you get tons of bonus for no reason other than "can not get in thin corridors").

Fair enough, given the rules you've seen as they are currently written in that thread. (Tal'Dori are supposed to be just a tad broken... IE GM's should be cautious about letting their players play as them. They are only the sixth race because I needed a replacement for Gnomes... I hate the little bastards XD. However, I do agree that the +4 to one mental ability score may be too much.)


then I can pick up magic using as main skill and I spend 7 skill points(I have the right to do that since I have 5 int modifier) so I get one bonus point to magic using then I have a total of 7 in magic using at level 1(basically half of the maximum)

Again, fair enough given the current setup in the system.


and I have 700 mana so if I can cast only level 1 spells I need to cast 70 of them if in my domain to deplete my battery or 23 spells of an opposing domain.

How the heck did you get 700 Mana to start out with? You get starting mana based on your Caster Ability Score not your Magic Skill.

Based on the hypothetical character you are using, your starting mana would be 200 mana (10 x Int. 20), with a maximum storage of 2000 Mana (100 x Int. 20) in each mana battery you carried. The 200 mana is just to start out with, after you burn through that, you have to rely on wha Mana you were able to store from your standard once per day charge (10x (Ability Score + Level)), any leftover mana from previous days, and any mana gained from extra successful charges that day (10x (Level + Ability Modifier)). And that doesn't recharge automatically, you have to actively charge it back up. Filling a single mana battery up to max at first level would take a while.

That is much more reasonable.

Other than that, design is intentional. Mana has an opportunity cost, especially after 1st level. 1st level spells are basically the cantrips of this system, so potentially being able to cast a lot of them is par for the design. At higher levels you would not only be deciding wether you wanted to cast spells inside your domains, from outside your domains, or from an opposing domain, but also wether you wanted to use your mana for lots of low powered spells, or fewer high powered spells.

Durzan
2017-03-23, 12:19 PM
Any more questions, suggestions, comments, or critiques?

noob
2017-03-23, 01:07 PM
When I spoke of mana I meant max mana.
I through that max mana was based on caster skill*100 and now you tell me it is even higher(casting stat*100)
I did not said that I could cast 70 spells per day only that I could cast 70 spells in a row(after a lot of rest)
But a wizard is probably going to have a 5 minute adventuring week(because he waits a whole week to refill then cast 50 spells)
Also I spoke of filling multiple mana batteries and then having a five minute adventuring decade(every 10 years I have filled all my mana batteries and I can then go on a short adventure then have to wait 10 years again to be full of mana)

It does not matters that you gain only one point of mana per day the team is probably going to wait for the caster to be full before adventuring(because who else will heal them between battles and give support while fighting?)

So put a smaller maximum capacity and do not allow to charge multiple batteries because else players are going to wait weeks filling all their mana batteries.

A caster should probably fill his mana battery in the same time the non casters regain their resources(like health) or faster if you intend casters to heal people.

Also can a caster take both black and white?
Then do it gets the cost of 30*spell level for casting a spell in any of the two domains?
Or do the caster needs to pay 40*spell level for casting a spell in one of the two domains?(since they pay 10*spell level to cast a spell in a domain they know then they pay 30*spell level to cast a spell in a domain opposed to one of the domains he knows?)

I suggest scalable heal:

Spell Type: Utility
Domains: White
Level: 2-10
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Targets: Single Target
Effect: You heal some of the wounds of the target.
Duration: Instantaneous
Defense: Will Defense

Description: By laying your hands upon the target, you heal up to Kd6 Wound points, or 2Kd6 vitality points.
The caster can chose K as any number between 1 and 5.
If K*2 is lower or equal to the highest level of spell the caster can cast then the caster can cast that spell as a spell of level K*2.

I also suggest a range splice(30 feet or contact are both short ranges)

Range

Spell Type: Splice
Splice Level Adjustment: +1 to +9
Effect: Increase spell range.

Description: You have modified a spell to increase its range.
If it was touch range its range becomes 30*K feet.
If it was a range given in feet its range becomes (its old range)+30*K feet.
If its range enter neither of those categories it do nothing.
This splice increase the level of the spell of K(K being between 1 and 9)

Durzan
2017-03-23, 03:59 PM
When I spoke of mana I meant max mana.
I through that max mana was based on caster skill*100 and now you tell me it is even higher(casting stat*100)
I did not said that I could cast 70 spells per day only that I could cast 70 spells in a row(after a lot of rest)
But a wizard is probably going to have a 5 minute adventuring week(because he waits a whole week to refill then cast 50 spells)

Thanks for clarifying your concerns.

As far as the 5 minute adventuring week goes, thats something I SHOULD be able to primarily take care of in-game, rather than resorting to rule modification; I would be a bad GM if I let my players have a 5 minute adventuring week, regardless of the benefits. Random encounters work wonders in encouraging players to not sit around idly.

During downtime between adventures, its perfectly fine and expected for a spellcaster to spend some of their down time charging their Mana Batteries to as full as possible (they hopefully earned it), and they will probably need a lot of Mana in later adventures. However, if they setup camp after only one or two encounters, then I'd probably gonna spring a random encounter on them, when they are not looking. Burning through your Mana Reserves in one or two combats would of course be unwise, in those circumstances, as the players wouldn't know when to expect goblins or something else nasty to pop out. Rationing Mana is still a big part of being a spellcaster, even with a free daily recharge rate, and a large max capacity of mana per Battery.

And if the player runs low on mana, they have an emergency button they can press to get more mana (albeit with a significant risk, and a somewhat low return). Remember the rules I established earlier (Though looking at it again, it looks like it could use some clarification and rewording):


Charging: A magic user can gather and purify an amount of mana equal to 10 x (Spell Casting Ability + Level). This process can be done once per day after at least 8 hours of rest.
A magic user can generate additional mana, but doing so is extremely dangerous and exhausting. If the caster attempts to do so, they must succeed a magic check (DC 20 + 2 for every previous attempt). If they succeed, then they charge an amount of mana equal to [10 x (Spell Casting Ability Modifier + Level)].

If the caster fails, then they take 1d4 points of temporary Ability Score Damage to a random mental ability score. These recover at a rate of 1 point per day.

Honestly, I should probably reword that to being:


Charging: A magic user can spend an hour of time in order to freely gather and purify an amount of mana equal to 10 x (Spell Casting Ability Score + Level). This process can be freely done once per day after at least 8 hours of rest.

A magic user can attempt to generate additional mana additional times per day, but doing so is extremely dangerous and exhausting, and if successful doesn't yield nearly as much mana. If the caster attempts to do so, they must succeed a magic check (DC 20 + 2 for every previous attempt). If they succeed, then they charge an amount of mana equal to [10 x (Spell Casting Ability Modifier + Level)].

If the caster fails, then they take 1d6 points of temporary Ability Score Damage to a random mental ability score. These recover at a rate of 1 point per day.

Overall, the problem isn't nearly so much with the rules, as it would be the mindset of the players. Mana Batteries would be filled up faster as the players level, thus the problem of the 5-minute adventuring day and then spending many days charging Mana Batteries would mainly be encountered at lower levels.

Ultimately, I have a few reasons for why Max Mana should remain fairly high:

Spells scale more linearly in power, rather than quadratically or exponentially like in D&D. On top of that, there isn't going to be a fixed level cap on spells, so much higher level spells could end up costing several hundred points of mana. That adds up pretty quick.
I plan on having some spells and/or magical items that will need to constantly drain mana each round in order to remain in effect, even after the spell has. A good example for this would probably be Forgotten Prophecies' equivalent to the D&D spell Fly. Again, this can add up really quickly.
Casting spells outside your domain, in an opposing domain, and/or with splices added on quickly increases the mana cost of each spell. For example, if I were casting Elemental Blast at 10th level with the Explosion Splice, the mana cost for the spell could be: 120 Mana, 240 Mana, or 360 Mana. You would need to be able to store a whole lot of mana just to be able to cast one level 10 spell.
Spells have a decent chance of fissiling, particularly at higher levels (or during times when concentration is harder than normal), thus leading to potential wastes of mana.



Also I spoke of filling multiple mana batteries and then having a five minute adventuring decade(every 10 years I have filled all my mana batteries and I can then go on a short adventure then have to wait 10 years again to be full of mana)

It does not matters that you gain only one point of mana per day the team is probably going to wait for the caster to be full before adventuring(because who else will heal them between battles and give support while fighting?)

So put a smaller maximum capacity and do not allow to charge multiple batteries because else players are going to wait weeks filling all their mana batteries.

As far as allowing additional mana batteries goes, it only makes logical sense with the system of magic I have set up... especially from a lore perspective. Many magical items would have built in Mana Batteries to power their function, and even your stupidest magic user would be smart enough to always carry at least one spare battery in case of emergencies or a need for extra power for a spell or two. However, I could get behind having an arbitrary maximum on the number of batteries a spellcaster could hold onto.

That being said, I would be willing to cut the Maximum amount of Mana per battery in half if its really needed. Honestly, I'm kinda inclined to just remove the maximum mana limit on batteries... which might actually end up being the best and easiest way to solve the problems we are discussing currently. No limit on mana storage means that a player wouldn't need to buy a crap ton of gems to use as Batteries, they would only need a couple at most (One primary battery, and a couple for emergencies), and they would charge them up whenever possible as there is an indefinite amount of time to charge just one (Though I admit that this could be a double edged sword with regards to the potential 5-minute adventure issue).

Thanks for bringing this stuff up, as I probably wouldn't have thought about it on my own.


A caster should probably fill his mana battery in the same time the non casters regain their resources(like health) or faster if you intend casters to heal people.

No disagreement here. Casters can charge faster, but its risky... see the section on charging again.


Also can a caster take both black and white?
Then do it gets the cost of 30*spell level for casting a spell in any of the two domains?
Or do the caster needs to pay 40*spell level for casting a spell in one of the two domains?(since they pay 10*spell level to cast a spell in a domain they know then they pay 30*spell level to cast a spell in a domain opposed to one of the domains he knows?)

Black and White domains are opposites (thematically they cancel each other out), so no, you can't learn both of them.



I suggest scalable heal:

Spell Type: Utility
Domains: White
Level: 2-10
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Targets: Single Target
Effect: You heal some of the wounds of the target.
Duration: Instantaneous
Defense: Will Defense

Description: By laying your hands upon the target, you heal up to Kd6 Wound points, or 2Kd6 vitality points.
The caster can chose K as any number between 1 and 5.
If K*2 is lower or equal to the highest level of spell the caster can cast then the caster can cast that spell as a spell of level K*2.

I also suggest a range splice(30 feet or contact are both short ranges)

Range

Spell Type: Splice
Splice Level Adjustment: +1 to +9
Effect: Increase spell range.

Description: You have modified a spell to increase its range.
If it was touch range its range becomes 30*K feet.
If it was a range given in feet its range becomes (its old range)+30*K feet.
If its range enter neither of those categories it do nothing.
This splice increase the level of the spell of K(K being between 1 and 9)

Your Heal Spell is interesting... I will consider this.

The Range splice is a must, but the specifics might need adjusting. I like it!

noob
2017-03-23, 04:18 PM
Well what I meant is that allowing casters to have tons and tons of storage makes weird gameplay.
If you do not want wizards to wait months to reload simply make their storage more limited.
I never spoke of increasing mana gained with time but rather of lowering max mana(it allows the wizard to refill quicker if he have less max mana).
Maybe make the max storage of a caster be 20 times CS and scale with level progressively up to the 100*CS at very high level.
Level n: the wizard can store (inf(20+4n,100)*Casting Stat) mana at most(So during playtest he will store at most 40 times his casting stat in mana).
Also place the rule:when a caster use more than (inf(20+4n,100)*Casting Stat) mana in one day he can no longer cast spells even if he have full mana batteries(until the next day).
This allows avoiding the multi battery use for casting tons of spells in one day.

Durzan
2017-03-26, 01:08 PM
Well what I meant is that allowing casters to have tons and tons of storage makes weird gameplay.
If you do not want wizards to wait months to reload simply make their storage more limited.
I never spoke of increasing mana gained with time but rather of lowering max mana(it allows the wizard to refill quicker if he have less max mana).

I see two solutions to the problem. The first is what you suggested earlier (lowering max mana), but this would only amplify the severity of some problems I mentioned in my last post. The Mana Cost quickly adds up over time, especially for higher level spells, so having a high max mana limit is key to the game design, assuming that we even need a limit on how much mana can be stored in a single battery. A 10th level spell at a bare minimum costs 100 Mana and at most 300 Mana (before adding splices or metamagic), and since a 10th level spell in Forgotten Prophecies should be much lower powered compared to a spell from D&D, then it only stands to reason that you should be able to cast more 10th level spells. Spell power in Forgotten Prophecies is supposed to advance at a slow but steady rate (Linearly), unlike D&D where spells tend to steeply increase in power with every additional level.

On top of that, If I set the maximum mana too low, then you won't be able to do jack squat with higher level spell, UNLESS your hoard a ton of Mana Batteries. Hoarding of Mana Batteries becomes essential to being an effective caster at that point. Which is a potential problem you pointed out in the first place.

This brings me to option 2: No limits on how much Mana can be stored in one Mana Battery, with a possible limit on the number of mana batteries you can carry on you at once. (Lore wise, Magic Users generally carry at least one additional mana battery on them at all times if they can help it. Gotta have emergency reserves...) It sounds kinda radical, but I think it may possibly solve the problem... and it fits with the lore of the default setting.


Maybe make the max storage of a caster be 20 times CS and scale with level progressively up to the 100*CS at very high level.
Level n: the wizard can store (inf(20+4n,100)*Casting Stat) mana at most(So during playtest he will store at most 40 times his casting stat in mana).
Also place the rule:when a caster use more than (inf(20+4n,100)*Casting Stat) mana in one day he can no longer cast spells even if he have full mana batteries(until the next day).
This allows avoiding the multi battery use for casting tons of spells in one day.

Okay, you lost me here. I have no clue what that function does. On top of that I have a KISS philosophy, so a function that isn't all that straight forward would be mostly pointless for the system I am trying to create.

Edit: Oh and commentary from other users would also be appreciated. Noob seems pretty good at analysis, but second opinions would always be helpful.

noob
2017-03-26, 03:54 PM
I have a long post explaining the system I made in simpler terms I could possibly post but I will only do that if you are interested in it.
Anyway I have no problems with mana hoarding(and it is the kind of thing I like to do) but know that if people play this game they will probably do a lot of mana hoarding because it is like bolts you do not want to run out of bolts so you carry 10 quivers with 50 bolts in each and have a crossbow that create bolts at will and a magical glove that makes bolts when you recharge and wear clothes made out of bolts and also drag around a cart full of quivers full of bolts.
The advantage is that now the caster have fun carrying the equivalent of bolts but under the form of mana crystals on focuses
Did you knew iron was a crystal?
So it means that a bolt could be a mana crystal on top of a focus(if a wooden stick can be a focus and if a mana crystal can be made of iron)
Do you know Boltdwarf?

Durzan
2017-03-26, 03:57 PM
I have a long post explaining the system I made in simpler terms I could possibly post but I will only do that if you are interested in it.
Anyway I have no problems with mana hoarding(and it is the kind of thing I like to do) but know that if people play this game they will probably do a lot of mana hoarding because it is like bolts you do not want to run out of bolts so you carry 10 quivers with 50 bolts in each and have a crossbow that create bolts at will and a magical glove that makes bolts when you recharge and wear clothes made out of bolts and also drag around a cart full of quivers full of bolts.
Do you know Boltdwarf?

Boltdwarf?