Proper order to watch the Star Wars movies?

[Norrefve]

Upon discovering that one of our friends had never seen any of the Star Wars movies, my friends, family, and I decided that we would watch one of them every week until the situation had been rectified.

This brought up an interesting discussion: As the movies were created out of order, chronologically, what is the correct order to watch them in?

On one hand, if you start with Episode I and watch through VII, you will have a single, coherent story line that follows the life, death, and legacy of Anakin Skywalker.

On the other hand, beginning with Episode IV and watching them in the order they came out makes more sense technologically as you see the special effects, camera work, etc. improve as the budget and available technologies for the Star Wars movies increase.

We eventually decided to go with the latter option, as this preserves the dramatic reveal that Darth Vader is Lukes father as this was one of the things that l made Episode V so great, rather than having it revealed anti-climactically in Padmé's birthing scene in Episode III.

But now I'm curious what the Playground thinks. Which is the better option? What are the pros and cons of each? Do Rogue One and the two upcoming movies factor into your decision?

[Rynjin]

Watch them in release order. That way if the person you're introducing to the series doesn't like the prequels they've already seen the important movies and you can stop watching without any issue. Instead of them being turned off the franchise entirely by them.

[Cheesegear]

The Machete Order (http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2011/11/11/the-star-wars-saga-suggested-viewing-order/)

Watch Episode 4 and 5. At the end of Empire, Vader tells Luke that they're related.
Then cut to Episode 2 and 3. The life and times of Anakin Skywalker. Since you've watched Empire already, the 'twist' is kept, while if you watch Episode III before V (that is, in order) the moment between Vader and Luke is completely lost, because at that point you - the audience - already know that Vader is Luke's father because of the end of III.
We are now up to speed on Luke and Anakin/Vader, which then sets up Return of the Jedi (6).

=> 4, 5, 2, 3, 6

You'll notice that this order removes Episode 1. Not only because it sucks, but because it doesn't matter. The timeskip between 1 and 2 means that Anakin is a completely different person by Episode II, the weird relationship between Amidala and a child is no longer so...Weird. Darth Maul never even shows up again (though if you want to show your friend the highly choreographed Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/Maul fight on YouTube, then I understand). But, neckbeardingly obviously, skipping over Episode I means a lot less Jar Jar.

[Razade]

The only appropriate answer is Rogue One, 4, 5, 6, 7 and when 8 comes out...8.

[tensai_oni]

Production order. First the original trilogy, then the prequels. Or possibly first the original trilogy, prequels later (or never), and skip straight to TFA and Rogue One.

EDIT: And I was ninja'ed and in fact this was suggested already:

Some people will recommend the Machete Order (IV -> V -> II -> III -> VI, skip The Phantom Menace entirely). I advise against it, details in the spoiler.
The idea behind this order is to give the viewers information regarding Anakin's background and motivation after the big reveal of Empire Strikes Back. But it just doesn't work, the originals and prequels clash too much aesthetically and frankly, the prequels are just not good movies for the most part so forcing someone to sit on two of them before Return of the Jedi is borderline punishment. The fact the Machete Order cuts out Ep I (because it doesn't matter as far as Anakin's backstory is concerned), but makes you watch Attack of the Clones (which may matter but it's also a much, MUCH worse movie) shows that the author behind this idea is more interested in following some sort of artistic vision rather than making sure the viewer has a good time. And good time is why you watch movies to begin with!

[DataNinja]

I can say that, having first watched them in numerical order, I do wish that I had seen them in release order. I think it would have been a different experience. Granted, I knew literally nothing about the Star Wars series when that happened. So, I had no idea who Obi Wan was, what this Anakin kid would do, anything. I'm sure that you all have gotten the general story via cultural osmosis, rather than the blank slate I was, but, I think, upon reflecting, that not bothering with the Prequel explanations for stuff initially makes the original trilogy stronger.

As a counterpoint, though, I think seeing the prequel movies first gave me a larger appreciation/tolerance of them than I see generally bandied about. I didn't find them half-bad.

[Razade]

I will say, the Prequels have the better lightsaber fights. But just go watch those on Youtube.

[tensai_oni]

The prequels aren't all bad, but that's mostly single scenes. The movies as a whole don't hold themselves together well. And to balance out the good scenes, there's plenty of bad ones too.

Episode II is clearly the worst, which is a big reason why I dislike the Machete Order because it suggests watching that while skipping ep I, which while not technically a good movie is at least more enjoyable.

Also, hate towards Jar-Jar is memetically exaggerated. He is annoying but not as annoying as to ruin a whole movie all by himself.

[Cheesegear]

Episode II is clearly the worst, which is a big reason why I dislike the Machete Order because it suggests watching that while skipping ep I, which while not technically a good movie is at least more enjoyable.

The Machete Order is only interested in what makes the best story. 'Fun having' isn't factored into it. And the original article says as much.
FAQ to the original article (http://www.nomachetejuggling.com/2015/12/28/machete-order-update-and-faq/), which addresses many problems.


The purpose of Machete Order was and always will be to refocus the story of the Original and Prequel Trilogies to be about Luke's journey.

...That's it. Watching in chronological order makes it Anakin's story.


Also, hate towards Jar-Jar is memetically exaggerated. He is annoying but not as annoying as to ruin a whole movie all by himself.

There are so many problems with the production of Episode I, and Jar-Jar is simply emblematic of all of them. He isn't the most egregious flaw of Episode I, but he is the most obvious. Because he is the most obvious, that's what gets the most hate.

[tensai_oni]

The Machete Order is only interested in what makes the best story. 'Fun having' isn't factored into it.

This is why I think it's a bad idea, because it's trying to create some kind of deep and meaningful story where there simply isn't one. Star Wars movies, even the good ones, were never ambitious or deep with their plot.

Fun should be the #1 priority when watching them. After all, who cares if the story is "good" if watching it makes you miserable?

[Murk]

I have seen quite a few people being "introduced" to the movies, and none of them really hated the prequels.
(Alright, a few hated the prequels, but they hated the originals too).
Most of them agreed that there were some terrible aspects, but they then also said that those terrible aspects were present in the originals too.

Granted, my sample size was still relatively small (about seven people), and none of them were really sci-fi lovers anyway, but from my experience I wouldn't suggest "cutting out the prequels because they are so horrible". Rather, brace yourself for someone who says "the prequels made a lot of the same mistakes as the originals".


Having said that, I'd still say to show the movies in release order.

[Dienekes]

4, 5, 6

Rogue One if they want more. 7 if they are interested in seeing the next trilogy.

Just don't watch the prequels, they kind of suck, and honestly don't add anything of value while making minor inconsistencies with the originals.

People will say to watch the Machete Order, for some godforsaken reason. But don't, since that still requires the viewer to sit through 2/3 of the prequels.


The other option, of course is just watch Rogue One and 7. They're the only ones with modern production standards. And while, the OT were amazing for their time, it's arguable that they don't age well, since the heroes journey has become so well known and overanalyzed that what was once revolutionary has become boring.

[Razade]

Fun should be the #1 priority when watching them. After all, who cares if the story is "good" if watching it makes you miserable?

Well the thing there is...why only watch things that make you happy? Just because something upsets you or makes you sad or evokes some other strong emotion that isn't just happiness doesn't mean you didn't enjoy it. You can be sad and still enjoy something. Not to mention some of the greatest films aren't films that are "fun". Godfather is certainly not a "fun" film. I really enjoyed The Arrival, I absolutely wouldn't call that "fun" but I enjoyed it for what it was. Schindler's List is a great film, one of the best, but it is without a doubt not fun. One can live their life avoiding things like that but at least from my vantage point you've denied yourself a worthwhile experience and are less fulfilled. I'd argue that, for the demo the movies are aimed at, the movies can be not fun. There's hard concepts in Star Wars that a younger audience might enjoy but not find fun.

[Dienekes]

Well the thing there is...why only watch things that make you happy? Just because something upsets you or makes you sad or evokes some other strong emotion that isn't just happiness doesn't mean you didn't enjoy it. You can be sad and still enjoy something. Not to mention some of the greatest films aren't films that are "fun". Godfather is certainly not a "fun" film. I really enjoyed The Arrival, I absolutely wouldn't call that "fun" but I enjoyed it for what it was. Schindler's List is a great film, one of the best, but it is without a doubt not fun. One can live their life avoiding things like that but at least from my vantage point you've denied yourself a worthwhile experience and are less fulfilled. I'd argue that, for the demo the movies are aimed at, the movies can be not fun. There's hard concepts in Star Wars that a younger audience might enjoy but not find fun.

Godfather is an amazingly fun film. "Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

But that's beside the point here since, we're talking about the prequels. The lack of fun doesn't come from exploring adult themes or depressing and somber visuals, it's not fun because they're just bad. The acting from the main couple are bad. The dialogue (which was never Lucas' strong point anyway) is obnoxious. The humor, outside a few Obi-One Liners, doesn't land. A kid may enjoy them, but this was for an adult friend of the OP.

[Cheesegear]

Well the thing there is...why only watch things that make you happy?

I think that's not what he means. I think if the act of watching the movie itself, makes you miserable, then you shouldn't watch it. Because that would indicate that it's a bad movie, just, in general. Which the Prequels, are - bad movies, that is. Which goes back to personal standards; Is it possible to enjoy a 'bad movie'? Absolutely. I've watched all Fast and the Furious movies, I've seen all Underworld and Resident Evil movies, too. Most of them, are complete garbage, but I watched them anyway, because I had fun while watching a terrible movie.

Which The Machete Order actually takes into account. Do you like Episode I? Great. Watch it. Nobody can take it away from you, if you do, in fact, like watching Episode I ('It has Maul in it!'). However, you must be prepared to accept that Episode I is bad, and yes, Episode II, is even worse. Episode II may be a horrible viewing experience (i.e; 'Makes you miserable'), but, Episode I simply isn't relevant to the plot - not really - while Episode II, is, despite how terrible it is. If you enjoy Episode I - despite its flaws - then watch it (Machete Order takes that into account). However, if you don't like Episode I, you don't need to watch it, and you shouldn't feel like you've 'missed out' on anything except the three-way Lightsaber fight at the end (which I don't even like, but I understand why people who do, do) - which you can see on YouTube.

The fact that Episode I is bad, Episode II is worse, and III kind of just...Sucks. Skipping the prequels entirely is always a valid choice.

[Pronounceable]

As the movies were created out of order, chronologically, what is the correct order to watch them in?
The only winning move is to not play. Let them watch the original three for their cinematic history value (or whatever correct term for that is) and then skip the rest of the cash cowing and sheep shearing dreck they've been shovelling out for decades. It really is not a big loss.

[Legato Endless]

The only wrong move is watching them in chronological order.

Hatred of the prequels is fairly magnified by the Internet echo chamber. They weren't great films, and they're fun to hate on, but to most random people they aren't the bleeding wound the Geek community treats them as. Honestly the Hobbit films are probably worse even by the niche standards of Geek IP prequels.

The problem with chronology is the story is not written or presented to logically flow as such. Later produced Prequels are sequels, and most of them should be watched like any other sequel. A lot of beats in the Star Wars Prequels don't make aesthetic sense if you haven't seen the original trilogy. The fan service goes from cloying to bewildering. If you don't already know who Chewie is, you've little reason to care about his fight, as Revenge of the Sith makes zero effort to characterize him. Whatever Lucas' shifting opinion on the issue is, when he made the prequels he was emphatically assuming you'd seen the originals. There's far too many choices made based on that assumption to come to any other conclusion. Having people watch the prequels first spares them heightened expectations, but it also leaves them lacking an interpretative layer the films implicitly demand you're aware of.

For the purposes of morbid curiosity science however, I'd be curious for the reactions if you showed a dozen unspoiled people A New Hope followed by The Force Awakens.

[Murk]

For the purposes of morbid curiosity science however, I'd be curious for the reactions if you showed a dozen unspoiled people A New Hope followed by The Force Awakens.

I went to see The Force Awakens with (a.o.) two people who hadn't grown up with Star Wars and who had seen all movies (prequels included) for the first time recently. Their reaction was pretty much "I've seen this movie already".
As I said before, they also felt the prequels weren't that much more horrible than the original trilogy. The acting was slightly worse (it wasn't top-notch in the originals either), but the better visuals and action scenes compensated for that.

So the "right order" to make people watch it also depends on why you want them to watch it.
- Because you feel the movies are actual masterpieces? So they will share in your nostalgia? (hint: not going to happen) Just because you feel they are classics?
Sure, skip the prequels.
- So you can talk about the movies? Because your nostalgia included the prequels? Because you want some lighthearted science fiction movies to watch?
Watch 'em all, in chronological order.
- Because you have the faint and irrational hope that they will become massive fans, and you also feel that their potential needs to be carefully groomed and protected?
Watch them in machete order, possibly leaving out whichever movies you hate the most.

[Peelee]

Release order.


I will say, the Prequels have the better lightsaber fights. But just go watch those on Youtube.

Prequels had prettier lightsaber fights. But they were devoid of any emotional weight. Even the one that could have actually mattered in Ep. III ended up being dragged out so long I just wanted someone to take it out back and shoot it to put it out of its misery. Hell, at one point, Obi Wan and Anakin try to force push each other, and while it makes sense they would use any resources at their disposal, having the camera focus on their hands facing each intensely other just makes for an awkward fight. The prequel lightsaber fights were finely-choreographed dances, and they looked like it.

[Yora]

The only propper order is 4, 5, 6. :smalltongue:

However, in case there are people who don't really know anything about Star Wars, I find it quite convincing to first watch the movies as 4, 5, (1), 2 3, 6. If you're going to watch them all, this order would have the best dramatic effect. You get the big ending of 5 and are left with the question "How could all this have happen?" Then the prequels are answering that question. However, if you have not yet seen 6, then the ending of 3 is also going to be more dramatic because you would not know yet what will happen with Vader in the end.
It also makes some structural sense. In between 5 and 6 Luke is clearly having some time off to seriously think what happened and at the start of 6 he is a very changed men with a clear image of Vader as something other than pure evil. Through the prequel movies (though 3 alone would be fully sufficient) the audience can also come to see Vader in another light.

[Malimar]

Machete Order tells objectively the best story, and anyone who says otherwise is just blinded by the Dark Side.

Skip Episode 1. Maybe throw in Rogue One after the main series (I haven't seen it yet so I don't know if it's any good, but I do know it's an entirely separate story). Episode 7 isn't worth watching on its own, so skip it until we find out if 8 and 9 are worth watching.

[Razade]

Prequels had prettier lightsaber fights. But they were devoid of any emotional weight. Even the one that could have actually mattered in Ep. III ended up being dragged out so long I just wanted someone to take it out back and shoot it to put it out of its misery. Hell, at one point, Obi Wan and Anakin try to force push each other, and while it makes sense they would use any resources at their disposal, having the camera focus on their hands facing each intensely other just makes for an awkward fight. The prequel lightsaber fights were finely-choreographed dances, and they looked like it.

As opposed to those totally natural non-choreographed lightsaber fights from the original movies. Except they were. As for "emotional weight"....ehhhhhhh? It's your opinion I guess.


Machete Order tells objectively the best story, and anyone who says otherwise is just blinded by the Dark Side.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.


Skip Episode 1. Maybe throw in Rogue One after the main series (I haven't seen it yet so I don't know if it's any good, but I do know it's an entirely separate story). Episode 7 isn't worth watching on its own, so skip it until we find out if 8 and 9 are worth watching.

Rogue One is literally not a separate story. Watching it before Episode 4 is the way to go as the end of Rogue One is the very literal start of Episode 4.

[Peelee]

As opposed to those totally natural non-choreographed lightsaber fights from the original movies. Except they were. As for "emotional weight"....ehhhhhhh? It's your opinion I guess.

Never said they weren't choreographed. It just looked like people actually fighting, vs people dancing around. Darth Maul flipping around everywhere looked really cool. It did not look like he was trying in any way to kill or even hurt Obi Wan or Qui-Gon. It looked like he was flipping around for the sake of being able to flip around.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/82/d8/9a/82d89a6ba330977143287fdb2f31023d.gif

[Razade]

The difference is they went from western sword fighting which emphasis heavier blows to a more eastern style, going so far as to create various "forms" of saber martial arts. Your complaint is basically "it's not like the first movies". Which is fine, but this "the fights were choreographed!" argument is weird. All fights in movies are choreographed. The saber fighting in the original trilogy didn't look realistic either. Using swords of light as if they had weight is weird.

[Peelee]

The difference is they went from western sword fighting which emphasis heavier blows to a more eastern style, going so far as to create various "forms" of saber martial arts. Your complaint is basically "it's not like the first movies". Which is fine, but this "the fights were choreographed!" argument is weird. All fights in movies are choreographed. The saber fighting in the original trilogy didn't look realistic either. Using swords of light as if they had weight is weird.

I have never complained that the fights are choreographed. All fights are choreographed, yes. You're not surprising me here. I complained that the fights look choreographed. They look fake. They look like people putting on a show. They look like people trying to avoid hitting each other.

If you're going to tell me what my complaint basically is, then at least try to understand the complaint first.

[Norrefve]

I am pleasantly surprised by the amount of responses this got in such a short amount of time.


The Machete Order

Watch Episode 4 and 5. At the end of Empire, Vader tells Luke that they're related.
Then cut to Episode 2 and 3. The life and times of Anakin Skywalker. Since you've watched Empire already, the 'twist' is kept, while if you watch Episode III before V (that is, in order) the moment between Vader and Luke is completely lost, because at that point you - the audience - already know that Vader is Luke's father because of the end of III.
We are now up to speed on Luke and Anakin/Vader, which then sets up Return of the Jedi (6).

=> 4, 5, 2, 3, 6

You'll notice that this order removes Episode 1. Not only because it sucks, but because it doesn't matter. The timeskip between 1 and 2 means that Anakin is a completely different person by Episode II, the weird relationship between Amidala and a child is no longer so...Weird. Darth Maul never even shows up again (though if you want to show your friend the highly choreographed Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/Maul fight on YouTube, then I understand). But, neckbeardingly obviously, skipping over Episode I means a lot less Jar Jar.

Darn! I wish I had known about this before we started. I wouldn't mind trying this out, though. Despite the negative things people are saying about it, it makes sense, and does give the prequels a better purpose in the story arc.


Well the thing there is...why only watch things that make you happy? Just because something upsets you or makes you sad or evokes some other strong emotion that isn't just happiness doesn't mean you didn't enjoy it. You can be sad and still enjoy something. Not to mention some of the greatest films aren't films that are "fun". Godfather is certainly not a "fun" film. I really enjoyed The Arrival, I absolutely wouldn't call that "fun" but I enjoyed it for what it was. Schindler's List is a great film, one of the best, but it is without a doubt not fun. One can live their life avoiding things like that but at least from my vantage point you've denied yourself a worthwhile experience and are less fulfilled. I'd argue that, for the demo the movies are aimed at, the movies can be not fun. There's hard concepts in Star Wars that a younger audience might enjoy but not find fun.

While I agree that not every movie should make you happy (some should make you reflect soberly, or any number of non-happy things), there is a difference between watching a movie that doesn't make you happy, and sitting through a tortuously bad movie.


I appreciate all of you who say to just ignore the prequels, but I don't think they should be ignored. First of all, because they do exist. Second, because they do serve a purpose, even if that purpose is just to be hated by the fandom.

But now I'm curious, how many of you saying "skip the prequels" have seen the animated Clone Wars series? While some of it is undoubtedly cringe-worthy, there are other moments that make you really feel for the characters and make the whole thing worth watching. And you wouldn't get the same reaction had you simply skipped the prequels.

Also, since the thread is heading that direction anyway, what are your thoughts on RO and Episode VII? Personally, I loved how well RO flows into Episode IV, I like the characters (mostly) and the visuals, but most of the story was too garbled to follow properly.

I think I like Episode VII better than most people seem to. Everyone complains about Kylo, but I think he is a believable character whose story has only just begun.

I'm really excited to see what happens in Episode VIII.:smallcool:

[Legato Endless]

Also, since the thread is heading that direction anyway, what are your thoughts on RO and Episode VII? Personally, I loved how well RO flows into Episode IV, I like the characters (mostly) and the visuals, but most of the story was too garbled to follow properly.

If we're going to make an aesthetic argument about our pop culture well, here's the issue: The intro to IV offers the introduction to the Empire and the Rebels. It's what everyone should see when they discover Star Wars. It's one of the most iconic shots in cinema. Nothing in the prequels or spinoffs compares to the visual elegance of that opening where the Star Destroyer looms onto the screen attacking it's tiny prey. It's a better visual metaphor for Star Wars than anything else, light sabers be damned.

Nothing in Rogue One does heavy lifting on that level. Watching it first loses your audience to what made Star Wars iconic.


I think I like Episode VII better than most people seem to. Everyone complains about Kylo, but I think he is a believable character whose story has only just begun.

Metatextually Kylo was brilliant. He's the best riff on Darth Vader we've ever gotten, surpassing every disposable clone the EU gave us. The most critical flaw with The Force Awakens is structural, not character-centric. It's far too conservative, slavishly retreading the beats and setting of Episode IV.

[tonberrian]

Watch VII. :smalltongue:

The Force Awakens is basically A New Hope with a modern budget and modern effects. It condenses the goodness of the original trilogy down into one film that's going to feel like a repeat, particularly after binging IV, V, and VI. If they're still interested in Star Wars after The Force Awakens, then the original trilogy, then Rogue One, then the prequels.

[Razade]

I have never complained that the fights are choreographed. All fights are choreographed, yes. You're not surprising me here. I complained that the fights look choreographed. They look fake. They look like people putting on a show. They look like people trying to avoid hitting each other.

If you're going to tell me what my complaint basically is, then at least try to understand the complaint first.

I do understand you're argument, thanks for the condescension though, I just think it's wrong. It all looks choreographed because it is.



While I agree that not every movie should make you happy (some should make you reflect soberly, or any number of non-happy things), there is a difference between watching a movie that doesn't make you happy, and sitting through a tortuously bad movie.

Oh sure, wasn't really my point though. There's enjoyment in being miserable. Was all I was really saying.


But now I'm curious, how many of you saying "skip the prequels" have seen the animated Clone Wars series? While some of it is undoubtedly cringe-worthy, there are other moments that make you really feel for the characters and make the whole thing worth watching. And you wouldn't get the same reaction had you simply skipped the prequels.

Which one? The one done by the guy who did Samurai Jack is amazing and everyone should watch it. The fact that they dropped it and ignored it for canon is a real shame.


Also, since the thread is heading that direction anyway, what are your thoughts on RO and Episode VII? Personally, I loved how well RO flows into Episode IV, I like the characters (mostly) and the visuals, but most of the story was too garbled to follow properly.

Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie to date, including the original imho.


I think I like Episode VII better than most people seem to. Everyone complains about Kylo, but I think he is a believable character whose story has only just begun.

I'm really excited to see what happens in Episode VIII.:smallcool:

Episode 7 had the problem of all the previous generations of Star Wars fans to complain about it. People who were new to the series seem to overwhelmingly like it. Not that that means the movie is good mind, but it's not like it's hated.

[Rockphed]

The only wrong move is watching them in chronological order.

Hatred of the prequels is fairly magnified by the Internet echo chamber. They weren't great films, and they're fun to hate on, but to most random people they aren't the bleeding wound the Geek community treats them as. Honestly the Hobbit films are probably worse even by the niche standards of Geek IP prequels.

I never bothered to watch The Hobbit after the first one. It took the story in a weird direction (which I half approved of), but had mood-whiplash problems and false danger abounded. The giants were given about a sentence and a half in the book. In the movie, they were given 5 minutes of false danger. Then I heard about all sorts of other things that the movies did weird, and I just don't have the will to go see them.


Metatextually Kylo was brilliant. He's the best riff on Darth Vader we've ever gotten, surpassing every disposable clone the EU gave us. The most critical flaw with The Force Awakens is structural, not character-centric. It's far too conservative, slavishly retreading the beats and setting of Episode IV.

I think my biggest problem with The Force Awakens is that it was made about 15 years too late. I agree that the setting and story are very close to Episode IV, but I don't think that that is always a bad thing. Words are failing me right now, or I would expound on that a bit.

[jollysunflora]

I personally prefer them in release order.

[Rynjin]

I do understand you're argument, thanks for the condescension though, I just think it's wrong. It all looks choreographed because it is.

Well-choreographed fights shouldn't look choreographed. The same way well-made sets shouldn't look like sets, and a good actor can sell themselves being someone other than they are. That's the entire art of cinema, crafting a believable world and a plot, characters, and actions within it.

The prequel fights aren't well-choreographed. They look slick on a first viewing but then you realize none of it has any weight and it's clear the actors are TRYING to miss or hit their opponent's weapons instead of their opponent. Good choreography would change the framing. The blow almost hits, but is deflected by a desperate block. The character is nearly gutted, but jumps back and the attack merely cuts their clothing instead. Instead of it being clear that person A was aiming at patch of air B, it becomes Person A is aiming at Person B, but Person B knows to dodge or block at that moment.

[Dragonexx]

I suppose your perception varies. For me, I watched the prequels first in theatres, and didn't actually sit down and watch the originals all the way through until several years later and wasn't really that impressed (though yoda was cool as ever), so I don't have the same connection to them that a lot of other people do and resent all the fellating people try to give them. The lightsaber fights look pretty stiff and awkward and the acting really isn't that better (an in some instances is worse). Also I don't really buy Han and Leia's relationship and don't really care for Luke all that much either (Chewbacca and Lando are still awesome though). Han and Leia are divorced in The Force Awakens and that totally makes sense.

Also this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KSbwAJT8RE

[Rynjin]

Doesn't particularly matter what order you were exposed to them first in. I watched the prequels first too (on TV) and thought they sucked even as a kid. They're so slow and boring just to get to the fun action scenes.

A more objective and specific dislike for them is just something I've developed over time.

I'm not a particularly huge fan of the original trilogy either, but in every technical aspect they are superior stories. Better AND faster paced, a more coherent narrative, character motivation that make sense, etc., etc.

[Murk]

Doesn't particularly matter what order you were exposed to them first in. I watched the prequels first too (on TV) and thought they sucked even as a kid. They're so slow and boring just to get to the fun action scenes.

A more objective and specific dislike for them is just something I've developed over time.

I'm not a particularly huge fan of the original trilogy either, but in every technical aspect they are superior stories. Better AND faster paced, a more coherent narrative, character motivation that make sense, etc., etc.

An "objective dislike" is a weird thing that I'm not sure is possible.
As for "superior stories", no, I don't agree with that. I think everything about the original trilogy is superior for its time (the acting, the effects, etc.) except for the stories. The things you named - the narrative, the character motivation, etc. - are the only things that I think are better in the prequels.

So, yeah, "objective" doesn't really apply here.

[Czhorat]

I watched them in release order as they came out. I'm old.

I also really don't get the prequel hatred. Whatever flaws they have (wooden acting, poor dialog, etc) are shared by the originals. I love 4, 5, 6 mainly for nostalgia, but even I have to admit that young Mark Hamill's acting was, at points, embarrassingly bad.

So far as order is concerned, I agree on release order. It lets the reveal at the end of Empire have its impact and, as has been stated here, the prequels refer back to the originals.

I thought Rogue One didn't add much, and may have detracted overall. That, however, is a different discussion.

[Czhorat]

I'm not a particularly huge fan of the original trilogy either, but in every technical aspect they are superior stories. Better AND faster paced, a more coherent narrative, character motivation that make sense, etc., etc.

Need I remind you that the first two movies set up a classic love triangle between Luke, Leia, and Han only to have Lucas cheat his way out of it by making Luke and Leia siblings? The original trilogy definitely felt like something they were making up at they went along.

[Rynjin]

Need I remind you that the first two movies set up a classic love triangle between Luke, Leia, and Han only to have Lucas cheat his way out of it by making Luke and Leia siblings? The original trilogy definitely felt like something they were making up at they went along.

Given that love triangles are one of the worst tropes to ever hit media, cheating your way out of one should be cause for celebration.

[Czhorat]

Given that love triangles are one of the worst tropes to ever hit media, cheating your way out of one should be cause for celebration.

I have no problem with the idea. It's one source of tension not only between protagonists but also internal to the character with a choice to make.

I didn't realize it at the time (because i was five years d), but the L, L,H triangle is very archetypical with Luke as pure, naive and slightly boring to Han's more daring but less reputable "bad boy". Whether you like this story line or not, it's pretty clear to me that "Luke and Leia are sisters" was a last-minute change to prevent one of them from having to lose. That's what I mean by a lack of consistency.

[pendell]

The order is pretty easy: Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back , Return of the Jedi, the new Disney movies. There were no prequels :smallamused:.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[Nightcanon]

The order is pretty easy: Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back , Return of the Jedi, the new Disney movies. There were no prequels :smallamused:.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

This could be called the truncated machete order. To recap, machete order is 4, 5, then 2, 3 (because having found out the relationship between DV and LS at the end of 5, one goes back to find out more about how AS became DV), then 6. In truncated machete, one simply accepts that the prequels do such a terrible job* of explaining Vader's back-story that you are literally better off with what Luke can glean from Obi-Wan and Yoda than what the prequels present.

*to be fair, they may not be that terrible- I can't remember. I mean, I watched Attack of the Clones less than 2 months ago, and struggle to remember much about it at all in terms of dialogue, character development or plot (beyond "bad guy secretly orders up clone army, and kills off a bunch of Jedi, mainly because we start the film with no clone army and lots of Jedi, and everyone knows that in 2 films' time we need to have no remaining Jedi and a whole bunch of clones").

[JoshL]

What, no mention of the Ewok movies? I'm alone in my love for those, I think...

Seriously though, new viewers I always suggest release order, but when I rewatch them, it's usually chronological. Including the prequels (and, yes, 2 is the worst of the bunch). There's too much to squeeze in, but maybe a selection of important episodes the Clone Wars series could go in there too. Mostly because you can never have enough Ventress.

[Peelee]

I do understand you're argument
I don't think you do (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21797907&postcount=32).

[KillingAScarab]

But now I'm curious, how many of you saying "skip the prequels" have seen the animated Clone Wars series? While some of it is undoubtedly cringe-worthy, there are other moments that make you really feel for the characters and make the whole thing worth watching. And you wouldn't get the same reaction had you simply skipped the prequels.

Also, since the thread is heading that direction anyway, what are your thoughts on RO and Episode VII? Personally, I loved how well RO flows into Episode IV, I like the characters (mostly) and the visuals, but most of the story was too garbled to follow properly.

...
I'm really excited to see what happens in Episode VIII.:smallcool:If you want to include Clone Wars in the watch order, make sure to skip the three episodes in season 4 which take place on that Force planet. Later Clone Wars also includes Darth Maul, which you would think requires knowledge of The Phantom Menace but... you could just watch the duel scene.

The Force Awakens requires no prequel knowledge. Actually, I think it would be better served without any sense of the timeline of the Empire. Just as in A New Hope, Han's point of view makes more sense without realizing Palpatine was only Emperor for one generation.

[Rynjin]

An "objective dislike" is a weird thing that I'm not sure is possible.
As for "superior stories", no, I don't agree with that. I think everything about the original trilogy is superior for its time (the acting, the effects, etc.) except for the stories. The things you named - the narrative, the character motivation, etc. - are the only things that I think are better in the prequels.

So, yeah, "objective" doesn't really apply here.

"More objective".

I.E. there are objectively observable flaws in movies you may otherwise like or dislike as your preference. A plot hole is a plot hole, it's not a subjective factor, as an example.

I didn't like them as a kid because they were slow and boring. I don't like them as an adult because they're slow and boring...and that dislike is magnified by the many other flaws.

[Lethologica]

Release order, with a curated selection of Clone Wars afterwards if so desired. (I wonder what it would be like to watch Clone Wars before/without episodes I and II.)


This could be called the truncated machete order.
Or we could just call it "the original trilogy," or "skipping the prequels," instead of reorienting everything around the haphazard fan retrofit that most people have never heard of.

[dps]

Just as in A New Hope, Han's point of view makes more sense without realizing Palpatine was only Emperor for one generation.

It's not just Han; there are several other characters whose attitudes and knowledge of the Force clearly don't make much sense if the events of Episode III are just 20 years before the events of Episode IV. To a great extent, for that reason (and the fact that Obi-Wan clearly lied to Luke about his father, the weak-assed POV excuse notwithstanding) I sometimes sort of wish that Episode IV was the only film in the series that was ever made.

[Nightcanon]

Or we could just call it "the original trilogy," or "skipping the prequels," instead of reorienting everything around the haphazard fan retrofit that most people have never heard of.
Yes we could, of course. What you miss is that mine was a tongue in cheek reply to Pendell's "there are no prequels", with an equally tongue in cheek dig at the notion that machete order maintains the worthwhile and necessary bits from the prequels. Again, with tongue firmly in cheek, the trouble with 'original trilogy/ omit prequels' is that you miss the the worthwhile bits of the prequels; truncated machete deals with this.

[Rynjin]

Define worthwhile. What in the prequels has had an impact on the franchise going forward? The original trilogy stands just fine on its own, it's no more necessary to watch the prequels to appreciate the original trilogy than it is to play Knights of the Old Republic or read the novels.

[Cespenar]

Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy, Republic Commando, Kotor 1, Kotor 2.

You were asking about these, right? :smalltongue:

[Lethologica]

Yes we could, of course. What you miss is that mine was a tongue in cheek reply to Pendell's "there are no prequels", with an equally tongue in cheek dig at the notion that machete order maintains the worthwhile and necessary bits from the prequels. Again, with tongue firmly in cheek, the trouble with 'original trilogy/ omit prequels' is that you miss the the worthwhile bits of the prequels; truncated machete deals with this.
Fair enough. My sense of humor is all out of whack the past couple days.


Define worthwhile. What in the prequels has had an impact on the franchise going forward? The original trilogy stands just fine on its own, it's no more necessary to watch the prequels to appreciate the original trilogy than it is to play Knights of the Old Republic or read the novels.
The prequels honestly introduce a ton of compelling story elements. The downfall of the rigid, politicized, corruptible, elitist Jedi Order; the rise of Palpatine; the dynamic young prodigy who chafed at the constraints of the Jedi and became a war hero trying to save people, who was nonetheless constantly confronted with his inability to protect those he loved most; the orthodox mentor who did things the Jedi way and quarreled with his wayward apprentice, but became increasingly aware of the Jedi's failings as he was forced into extraordinary conflict; the ceremonial queen turned career politician who spent her life playing a dangerous and wearying game with people who all want something from her, and fell in love with the one person who just wants her; the whole question of clone personhood/agency...

Some of these things, like the clone issues, don't make a splash beyond the prequels. Some, like Anakin's story, augment our understanding of characters from the original trilogy. Some arguably have a transformative impact, but that's getting deep into fan-wank territory. Really, though, the issue is that most of them are either hidden (like anything to do with the clone wars themselves) or buried under layers of bad execution.

[Seppl]

Some of these things, like the clone issues, don't make a splash beyond the prequels. Some, like Anakin's story, augment our understanding of characters from the original trilogy. Some arguably have a transformative impact, but that's getting deep into fan-wank territory. Really, though, the issue is that most of them are either hidden (like anything to do with the clone wars themselves) or buried under layers of bad execution.
To me and a lot of other people, the prequels do not actually add anything worthwhile, but instead lessen the original. They added a lot of backstory but that backstory was bad.
Darth Vader? Now an angsty teenager. Also Jesus. Nooooooo!
Yoda and the emperor? Now jumpy lightsaber swinging CGI.
The Force? Now a genetic condition. Also mostly used to jump high and swing lightsabers really really fast.
C-3PO? Now built by some kid who just happens to also be Darth Vader.
The Republic? Built to fail.
The Jedi order? Now so dumb they just forget the whole secret plot between movies.
Obi Wan? Ok, the prequels did some things right.

All those people, things and concepts where probably much cooler in the audience's head when they were only hinted at in the original trilogy. We did not need to know any of this because we already knew the most important plot points and could fill in the blanks. When the prequels tried to fill in the blanks, those did not turn out to be very interesting. So what did the prequels add that was worth seeing? I bet nobody ever said that Padme was their favorite character from Star Wars. Or Qui Gon or Grivious or any of the others from the prequels. Certainly not Jar Jar. Windu maybe? But mostly because he is played by a famous actor. Is any of that enough to be worth seeing when you have to endure all the bad stuff, too?

[Nightcanon]

Fair enough. My sense of humor is all out of whack the past couple days.


The prequels honestly introduce a ton of compelling story elements. The downfall of the rigid, politicized, corruptible, elitist Jedi Order; the rise of Palpatine; the dynamic young prodigy who chafed at the constraints of the Jedi and became a war hero trying to save people, who was nonetheless constantly confronted with his inability to protect those he loved most; the orthodox mentor who did things the Jedi way and quarreled with his wayward apprentice, but became increasingly aware of the Jedi's failings as he was forced into extraordinary conflict; the ceremonial queen turned career politician who spent her life playing a dangerous and wearying game with people who all want something from her, and fell in love with the one person who just wants her; the whole question of clone personhood/agency...

Some of these things, like the clone issues, don't make a splash beyond the prequels. Some, like Anakin's story, augment our understanding of characters from the original trilogy. Some arguably have a transformative impact, but that's getting deep into fan-wank territory. Really, though, the issue is that most of them are either hidden (like anything to do with the clone wars themselves) or buried under layers of bad execution.

Don't worry about missing my attempt at dry humour :smallsmile:
You make a good argument, really you do: better than the Prequel Trilogy films do, in fact, which of course is the problem. In my opinion (and of course, all of this is purely opinion and I don't denigrate anyone else's opinion or their right to it), part of the problem is that the prequels try to tell both the story of how the Republic was subverted and became the Empire, and how Anakin became Darth Vader. I don't think it does either particularly well (partly because linking the two themes in the way that they did means that the Empire has to be slightly younger than Luke, and a 20-odd year-old Empire is less awe-inspiring than a 1000-year Reich). For what it's worth, I think that the Fall of Republic theme is done slightly better than the Fall of Vader, if only because the latter is done so horribly badly. The Anakin of Ep1 is taken from his mother yet treats it like being taken off to fly more exciting spaceships for the day as a treat, showing no convincing attachment to his mother; in Ep2 he comes across as a stroppy teenager and Ep3 ends with him having a tantrum and killing his former allies and their children. If written and acted better, one could claim that Anakin's Fall was the inevitable result of the emotional stunting that results from having been a slave on Tatooine and then being separated from his mother by the Jedi. He is presented by the story as being more capable and understanding of love than Obi-Wan and the Jedi Council, while being acted as if portrayed by Big Bang Theory's Dr Sheldon Cooper. It's supposed to be the story of how innocent Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader, yet the answer offered is "he wasn't allowed a girlfriend and totally lost his temper over it", while it feels like the only reason why his love for Padme was forbidden is for the metaplot reason that he had to have something to lose his temper with the Jedi Council over.
To me, the Anakin-becomes-Vader story as presented in the sequels is literally is less convincing and evocative than the retconned explanations that my 13-year-old came up with for what Obi-Wan tells Luke in Episode 4 ("Darth Vader killed your father"/ "obviously what I meant was that the part of your father's personality that became Darth Vader did so only by 'killing' all that was good in your father when he turned to the Dark Side, and I really did intend to tell you the full story but I got killed before I managed to gather the emotional strength because even now, forty years later, the betrayal is still raw; no of course we didn't change this later when we were trying to think of a good ending for Empire Strikes Back") and Obi-Wan addressing Vader as 'Darth' as if it were his given name, not title ("obviously I know that his real name is Anakin, and that Darth is a title assumed by Sith Lords; I was calling him Darth because I was acknowledging that he had achieved the status that he had so long sought, whilst subtly mocking him for giving up his former self and questioning the value of his new status").

[druid91]

Personally, I don't really know what great big plot threads are meant to be held by Attack of the Clones that aren't revealed by Revenge of the Sith. A two movie flashback isn't nearly as good of an idea as it sounds.

Rogue One, 4, 5, 3, 6, possibly 7

You get to see the best of the prequels as an extended flashback to the height of the clone wars.

[Aliquid]

For me, the reason I don't like the prequels and would skip them all together is that they ruin the whole feel of what made Star Wars special to me.

The original Star Wars was a fantasy story set in space. A classic story with Wizards (Jedi), swordplay (light sabers), magic (the force), monsters and a damsel in distress (that turned out to be bad-ass). The Jedi were an ancient and mysterious order that died out long ago

Then the prequels come out...

The Force went from:
- "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. "
- To Midi-cholrians... replacing a mythical and mysterious magical power with a scientific explanation ruined the force

The Jedi went from:
- "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fort-... "
- To Jedi everywhere! How could the Jedi be an old and mysterious group when they were at the height of their power a mere 20 years earlier?

For me Star Wars was an awesome "alternate reality" that just happened to be the setting for the original 3 movies. Even if the story writing and acting were better in the prequels (which they weren't), I still would have been disappointed by the world the story took place in.

[dps]

For me, the reason I don't like the prequels and would skip them all together is that they ruin the whole feel of what made Star Wars special to me.

The original Star Wars was a fantasy story set in space. A classic story with Wizards (Jedi), swordplay (light sabers), magic (the force), monsters and a damsel in distress (that turned out to be bad-ass). The Jedi were an ancient and mysterious order that died out long ago

Then the prequels come out...

The Force went from:
- "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. "
- To Midi-cholrians... replacing a mythical and mysterious magical power with a scientific explanation ruined the force

The Jedi went from:
- "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fort-... "
- To Jedi everywhere! How could the Jedi be an old and mysterious group when they were at the height of their power a mere 20 years earlier?

For me Star Wars was an awesome "alternate reality" that just happened to be the setting for the original 3 movies. Even if the story writing and acting were better in the prequels (which they weren't), I still would have been disappointed by the world the story took place in.

I don't disagree with any of this, but the bolded part essentially happened as soon as we found out that Vader is Luke's father.

[warty goblin]

The prequels are the Star Wars I watch most often. Not Episode 1 so much, but I rather like the sheer weird insanity of II, and III has, to my mind, pretty much the most compelling drama of the whole series. I don't think I'd start there, simply because I think a lot of the pleasure of III is knowing how badly it ends, and dreading that.

But I'm weird like that.

[Aedilred]

I agree with the consensus that you should watch them in release order. I don't hate the idea of the Machete Order but I've never tried it.

I think for a new viewer the differences between the prequels and the original series are likely to be much less marked, especially if they're watching a later cut of the originals with the added Jabba scene and some new CGI bells and whistles. A large part of the reason the prequels are considered so terrible is (firstly) the hype, to which they singularly failed to live up, and (secondly) that where the original film was groundbreaking and remains cinematically significant so its flaws can be overlooked, the prequels were not. But watching them with a dispassionate eye, Episodes IV and VI are pretty ropey. (V remains pretty solid). They have some great moments, but most of the dialogue is atrocious, the acting is pretty wooden, and there's a lot of cringe. Which is pretty much exactly what people say about the prequels. I think from a dispassionate perspective, III is at least as good as VI and probably better.

I have to disagree though with what seems the prevailing view that II is worse than I. Comparing the two films, I think II has a slight lead in terms of moments so horrendous you want to bite through whatever is to hand, but when it's not doing that, it's watchable. I on the other hand is, so far as I can make out, wholly without merit. Even when it's not being aggressively terrible there's nothing really good about it. Liam Neeson phones it in. Ewan McGregor has yet to find his level and has been given an awful script. The lightsaber fights look like they're trying way too hard with the choreography. The plot and setting make basically no sense and the central conflict is boring. It detracts from the presence of Anakin/Vader in later films by depicting him as a thoroughly irritating child, and adds nothing else of value to the overarching plot. Jar-Jar is frequently present. The CGI is everywhere and most of it has dated terribly. It's a bad film in its own right and it's a worse series entry.

I think that, no matter what order you watch them in, episode I can safely be skipped and nothing of value will be lost. But a younger viewer might have fun with it. I wouldn't like to say so definitively but I've heard that it was at least more popular with children than with adults - though that might just be because the children weren't old enough to appreciate the original trilogy.

[Aliquid]

I don't disagree with any of this, but the bolded part essentially happened as soon as we found out that Vader is Luke's father.Well... sort of yeah, but not necessarily. It could have been that the Jedi were on a decline for a while and there were only a handful left when Vader was a Jedi... So even when Vader was a Jedi, the general population (of a vast universe) barely saw them and thought of them as eccentric followers of an ancient religion. Then Vader turned Sith and took the killing blow on the Jedi order.

[JoshL]

Also, if I recall, in the first movie Luke is told his father was a Jedi, so they couldn't have been that long gone. But it did seem, as a kid, that the Empire had been in place for way longer than 20 years.

If we were to run with that idea, it would have been neat to see the Force all but gone from awareness in the galaxy, except some lunatic fringe sensitives, playing at old rituals. Until a young Anakin discovers a long lost text, detailing a ritual that unlocks potential for training, making the myth real once more, but overwhelming him with the Dark Side. The temple, finally vindicated in their beliefs, is slaughtered to keep anyone else from gaining power. A lone monk, Brother Kenobi, escapes with his life. The Dark Side is starting to take him, until he finds an obscure swamp plant, where practice of the Force has been alive this whole time, and he learns control. He goes to fight Vader, fails, nearly burning himself out in the process. He goes into hiding until one day he meets a young man named Luke with an unhealthy fixation on power converters....

At this point it's starting to sound like a Riddick sequel

[Chen]

The Empire had 20 years of despotic rule, during which they were also wiping out the Jedi. I think they could probably try to remove them from people's generally knowledge. At least the children anyways. After a couple of families get murdered because they even mentioned Jedi, I suspect the neighboring families might start not talking about it. Luke's generation could be pretty sheltered from knowing much about the Jedi or the Force.

The guy who talks back to Vader about sorceror's ways though, he was clearly just new on the job (the Cinemasins for A New Hope is fantastic everyone should check it out on Youtube).

[Knaight]

The only winning move is to not play. Let them watch the original three for their cinematic history value (or whatever correct term for that is) and then skip the rest of the cash cowing and sheep shearing dreck they've been shovelling out for decades. It really is not a big loss.

There's a few others which are on par or better than the original series. I'd call Rogue One the single best Star Wars film, 7 was roughly on par with 4-6, and there's a pretty big chunk of the Clone Wars cartoon that is enjoyable (though there are some episodes that really aren't, starting with the apparently infamous three on the force planet).

[Celestia]

4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6.
If you watch the prequels first, then the famous Empire scene is spoiled. If you watch Jedi before the prequels, then the Emperor's death is rather meaningless. This is the best order.

[Malimar]

Hundreds of thousands of inhabited planets (Qui-Gon tells Anakin "most" of the stars in the galaxy have a system of planets (implied most planets are inhabited), most galaxies have many billions of stars, so hundreds of thousands is an extremely conservative estimate). Several hundred thousand Jedi (as per Word of Lucas) or much fewer (if you take only on-screen evidence; I'd have estimated more like a few thousand). There is at most one Jedi for each inhabited planet (much like the Green Lantern Corps). All but a tiny fraction of a percent of people in the galaxy would never have encountered a Jedi even at the Jedi Order's peak.

[Peelee]

Hundreds of thousands of inhabited planets (Qui-Gon tells Anakin "most" of the stars in the galaxy have a system of planets (implied most planets are inhabited), most galaxies have many billions of stars, so hundreds of thousands is an extremely conservative estimate). Several hundred thousand Jedi (as per Word of Lucas) or much fewer (if you take only on-screen evidence; I'd have estimated more like a few thousand). There is at most one Jedi for each inhabited planet (much like the Green Lantern Corps). All but a tiny fraction of a percent of people in the galaxy would never have encountered a Jedi even at the Jedi Order's peak.

I've never encountered an Australian Prime Minister, but I know they exist, and if their government fell and was reoganized overnight, I don't think anyone would consider the Prime Ministers of old to be mythical twenty years later.

[warty goblin]

I've never encountered an Australian Prime Minister, but I know they exist, and if their government fell and was reoganized overnight, I don't think anyone would consider the Prime Ministers of old to be mythical twenty years later.

Most of the people in Star Wars who say that the Jedi were a myth are pretty far removed from the Republic worlds in the first place, and Jedi are not like most other things in the universe in some very substantial ways. It's less whether or not the Prime Minister of Australia was a myth, and more somebody tells you back when Australia had a PM, the PM could literally control people's minds and used a goddamn laser sword to destroy their enemies.

You might question whether this person really knew what they're talking about.

[Dienekes]

I've never encountered an Australian Prime Minister, but I know they exist, and if their government fell and was reoganized overnight, I don't think anyone would consider the Prime Ministers of old to be mythical twenty years later.

I'm going to defend the prequels slightly here.

The difference is, the Prime Minister never claimed to have magic powers. Imagine if they did, then after the reorganization the new regime announced they never had magic powers. Just tricks to confuse the gullibile. They were just a creepy religious order that was stealing the especially gifted babies and forcing them to join their cult.

Truly the old way is dead. And now a new rational logical government can take over. Without that mystic nonsense.

So yeah I can see why Han didn't believe in the Force.

[Aliquid]

Hundreds of thousands of inhabited planets (Qui-Gon tells Anakin "most" of the stars in the galaxy have a system of planets (implied most planets are inhabited), most galaxies have many billions of stars, so hundreds of thousands is an extremely conservative estimate). Several hundred thousand Jedi (as per Word of Lucas) or much fewer (if you take only on-screen evidence; I'd have estimated more like a few thousand). There is at most one Jedi for each inhabited planet (much like the Green Lantern Corps). All but a tiny fraction of a percent of people in the galaxy would never have encountered a Jedi even at the Jedi Order's peak.
I could buy that argument. But it would have been nice to play that theme up a bit in the prequels... you know "Ok Obi-Wan, it has been at least 50 years since a Jedi set foot on this planet. Keep a low profile."

Sure there would be a few fan-boys on every planet that reads about Jedi and knows all about them... maybe through some exaggerated or distorted stories though.

But the problem is... the prequels gave the impression that the Jedi had a large influence throughout the galaxy.

[Dragonexx]

The thing to remember is that the jedi were never that large of a group, at least on the galactic scale. Kanan says that during the prequels there were ~10,000 jedi. During other era's like the old republic, that was as large as around 1 million. Even then, it's not that much. There are millions, maybe even billions of inhabited worlds in the galaxy. The average person could potentially go their entire lives without seeing a Jedi, or if they did, it was probably just brief footage of them leading clone troopers in the clone wars. Though when going out the Jedi don't really seem to care to keep a low profile unless it directly hinders their mission they were also generally reclusive about the workings of the order. Outsiders weren't allowed inside their temples without an invitation, so most people would see no demonstration that the force was real.

Add to that that after claiming that the Jedi attempted to assassinate him, Palpatine ran a smear campaign on them, and the fact that if they were so magical how did they get order 66'd and it's pretty easy for most people to disbelieve in the force.

[Legato Endless]

I'm going to defend the prequels slightly here.

The difference is, the Prime Minister never claimed to have magic powers. Imagine if they did, then after the reorganization the new regime announced they never had magic powers. Just tricks to confuse the gullibile. They were just a creepy religious order that was stealing the especially gifted babies and forcing them to join their cult.

Truly the old way is dead. And now a new rational logical government can take over. Without that mystic nonsense.

So yeah I can see why Han didn't believe in the Force.

I can see Han not believing in the Force if he grew up in an area traditionally hostile to the Jedi. This being a de facto honest attitude among the generalized public outside the frontier is rather dubious. The argument that the Jedi are very small ignores the fact that the Jedi are also incredibly ancient. A Millenia old institution that has influenced Galactic governance is not going to vanish from public memory because a new government came on the scene in the last two decades. Particularly considering the Empire had to make baby steps over those years before it could operate as purely authoritarian as the Emperor desired. Regimes are not particularly effective when it comes to that adjustment of public knowledge. Painting the Jedi as completely evil rather than charlatans would be considerably easier.

Furthermore the size argument also elides that while Force Wielders are rare, they have an extremely disproportionate effect on galactic affairs despite their size. One Jedi per planet is pretty notable when Force Wielders tend to (sociopolitically) shake worlds and systems once they gain an ounce of mastery. More likely most people simply don't admit out loud the truth, or lie to themselves because it's easier to accept. In the Fairy tale of Star Wars it works, but it's certainly not a grounded examination of information manipulation across a society.


I've never encountered an Australian Prime Minister, but I know they exist, and if their government fell and was reoganized overnight, I don't think anyone would consider the Prime Ministers of old to be mythical twenty years later.

Han is an idiot though. Which is often ignored in Star Wars discussions is that characters like that moron who got choked by Vader aren't honestly all that rational at times. I'm fairly certain if Peelee saw someone demonstrate actual magic powers in front of him, his first reaction wouldn't be...uh, that's totally luck. That's not a rational response. It's human, but it's also fundamentally stupid.

[Peelee]

Most of the people in Star Wars who say that the Jedi were a myth are pretty far removed from the Republic worlds in the first place, and Jedi are not like most other things in the universe in some very substantial ways. It's less whether or not the Prime Minister of Australia was a myth, and more somebody tells you back when Australia had a PM, the PM could literally control people's minds and used a goddamn laser sword to destroy their enemies.

You might question whether this person really knew what they're talking about.


I'm going to defend the prequels slightly here.

The difference is, the Prime Minister never claimed to have magic powers. Imagine if they did, then after the reorganization the new regime announced they never had magic powers. Just tricks to confuse the gullibile. They were just a creepy religious order that was stealing the especially gifted babies and forcing them to join their cult.

Truly the old way is dead. And now a new rational logical government can take over. Without that mystic nonsense.

So yeah I can see why Han didn't believe in the Force.

To be fair, there was what, 20,000 years of the Jedi having magical powers and it being well-documented? (Obi Wan said a thousand generations, but hey, lets cut them 5 millennia slack, because why not)

I think a better analogy would be if I took over the world, and tried to erase any proof that we'd been into space at all. Stopped sending signals to satellites, scuttled all bases with connections to space, slaughtered everyone in NASA, ESA, JAXA, what have you. 20 years after the fact, do you believe the world at large would be so skeptical? Especially to the point of a high-ranking member of the military who is mocking any scientific knowledge of space travel it as "ancient?" Sure, maybe some people like Luke in backwater countries, but seasoned travelers like Han?

[Mister Loorg]

A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi

Stop

[Aliquid]

To be fair, there was what, 20,000 years of the Jedi having magical powers and it being well-documented? (Obi Wan said a thousand generations, but hey, lets cut them 5 millennia slack, because why not)And that's assuming we know what he means when he says "generation"

Things get messy with a variety of aliens with lifespans that are way longer than a humans... maybe some also with lifespans shorter. For an alien that is 300 years old, the fact that the Jedi have been gone for 20 years is a trivially short timeframe.

[Peelee]

And that's assuming we know what he means when he says "generation"

Things get messy with a variety of aliens with lifespans that are way longer than a humans... maybe some also with lifespans shorter. For an alien that is 300 years old, the fact that the Jedi have been gone for 20 years is a trivially short timeframe.

Indeed. Obi-Wan is human, so the assumption of ~25 years isn't completely out of hand. Also, the Republic lasted for 25,000 years which lines up pretty well with that assumption. But hey, let's say that the Jedi Order was only a thousand years old. Just for the sake of argument, even if we say each "generation" was one year. That's still a millennia of Jedi being pretty honkin' prominent, historically. Watto, out in the boonies of Tatooine, knew about the Jedi, he just never expected to actually meet any. Hell, Anakin, a 10-year-old slave out in the boonies of Tatooine, knew about the Jedi, well enough even to recognize their weapons off a glimpse. Both knew about Jedi powers (even if Anakin had misconceptions, but to be fair, he was 10).

[Flickerdart]

You can always replace the prequels with the 85-minute unofficial cut (http://www.avclub.com/article/topher-grace-edited-all-the-emstar-wars-emprequels-70527).

[Lethologica]

Rogue One has the Rebellion kowtowing to the Force every chance they get, and that's five seconds before ANH. Phantom Menace has plenty of people in the boonies who know about Jedi and the Force. A New Hope has Luke knowing about the Clone Wars, where (as of the prequels + Clone Wars) the Jedi openly ran one side of the war, as well as performing numerous individual feats that would be preserved in the common memory, even if only as legends. The canon of Jedi as forgotten in Luke's time is unsalvageable.

Then they repeat the plot point in The Force Awakens, of course.

[Dienekes]

To be fair, there was what, 20,000 years of the Jedi having magical powers and it being well-documented? (Obi Wan said a thousand generations, but hey, lets cut them 5 millennia slack, because why not)

I think a better analogy would be if I took over the world, and tried to erase any proof that we'd been into space at all. Stopped sending signals to satellites, scuttled all bases with connections to space, slaughtered everyone in NASA, ESA, JAXA, what have you. 20 years after the fact, do you believe the world at large would be so skeptical? Especially to the point of a high-ranking member of the military who is mocking any scientific knowledge of space travel it as "ancient?" Sure, maybe some people like Luke in backwater countries, but seasoned travelers like Han?

I mean there are already people who don't believe we've been in space. Announcing that it was all a hoax would give those people a chance to say "Ahaa! I always knew it!" And after 20 years of evidence being trickled through the television, yeah, I can definitely see most of the population who have never met an astronaut or been to NASA assuming that it was all a hoax. People tend to believe things when it's repeated to them over and over and over again. Especially if you make the opposition sound ridiculous by comparison. "I can't believe my ancestors used to believe the Jedi had magic powers, god they were such idiots." "I can't believe people were tricked by the Moon Landing, I would never have been that dumb if I was alive in '69."

Hell people do say the same about monarchies, fascism, communism, various religious practices, and more. But I'm not going to go down that road any further for fear of the mods descending upon me.

[Lethologica]

Having rewatched Interstellar recently for academic purposes, I suppose its portrayal of the government making out the moon landing as a hoax was believable enough.

[Aeson]

As for the titular question, my vote goes to the Original Trilogy in release order first. If you want to watch more than that, watch the Original Trilogy again, because it's better than either the Prequel Trilogy or the Disney stuff. If you insist on watching the Disney stuff and the Prequel Trilogy, then I'd suggest release order, or maybe Original Trilogy, Disney stuff, Prequel Trilogy.


The canon of Jedi as forgotten in Luke's time is unsalvageable.
Saying "I don't believe that the Force is real" is not the same as saying "I don't believe that the Jedi ever existed." It is the reality and power of the Force and the capabilities of the Jedi which are questioned - or, if you prefer, forgotten - within the Original Trilogy, not the existence of the Jedi.

Also, especially if the Jedi are/were uncommon, it is not that difficult to believe that the general populace might think that the stories about the superhuman abilities of the Jedi are exaggerated or false. We know that the Jedi are extremely rare by the time of the Original Trilogy, and the Prequel Trilogy doesn't really suggest that the Jedi were all that numerous even before the destruction of the order. Coruscant alone could easily have a population well into the tens or hundreds of trillions, if not more, given that it's a planet-spanning city, and both old EU material and The Force Awakens suggest that Coruscant is not unique in being an ecumenopolis. Jedi and other Force users could very easily have made up a vanishingly small fraction of the galactic population even before they were purged.


Phantom Menace has plenty of people in the boonies who know about Jedi and the Force.
They certainly know stories about Jedi and the Force. The degree to which they, or at least the adults, believe those stories is rather less clear. You don't need to believe in magic to dismiss someone as a magician.


performing numerous individual feats that would be preserved in the common memory, even if only as legends.
Knowledge of the superhuman feats performed by the Jedi being preserved only through legend is a problem, if you want to argue that the general populace within the Star Wars galaxy should know and believe in the existence of the power of the Force and the abilities of the Jedi. Legend, after all, is known for exaggeration, misrepresentation, and falsification, not for its objective, factual telling of feats, events and the manner in which the feats were performed and the events came to pass.

[Lethologica]

Jedi made up a vanishingly small fraction of the population the way, say, the atomic bombs made up a vanishingly small fraction of the wartime bomb population. Except that the atomic bomb would have been a lot more conducive to a subsequent cover-up than the Jedi, considering it was originally classified and only saw the one use in wartime, whereas the Jedi were originally public and were all over the entire war.

I apologize for misspeaking, though--by "even if only as legends" I mean that as the absolute minimum of sources the Empire couldn't have purged. In general, the common memory is a little more firm than a story about Odysseus' crew releasing the four winds thousands of years ago. A lot of that generation is still alive!

[Flickerdart]

Does Star Wars have cameramen in theatres of war, filming Jedi messing stuff up with the Force? Because if not, then it's entirely plausible that average Joe Moisture Farmer thinks that Jedi are weird mystic soldiers that fight with laser swords, and that's it.

[Peelee]

I mean there are already people who don't believe we've been in space. Announcing that it was all a hoax would give those people a chance to say "Ahaa! I always knew it!" And after 20 years of evidence being trickled through the television, yeah, I can definitely see most of the population who have never met an astronaut or been to NASA assuming that it was all a hoax. People tend to believe things when it's repeated to them over and over and over again. Especially if you make the opposition sound ridiculous by comparison. "I can't believe my ancestors used to believe the Jedi had magic powers, god they were such idiots." "I can't believe people were tricked by the Moon Landing, I would never have been that dumb if I was alive in '69."


Having rewatched Interstellar recently for academic purposes, I suppose its portrayal of the government making out the moon landing as a hoax was believable enough.

I never said moon landing. I said in space. Sure, some people may believe we haven't been in space, but that's fat less than believe we haven't landed in the moon, and likely far crazier. People would need to forget that we had cell phones, GPS, satellite tv, t H e Hubble Space Telescope, and hundreds if not thousands of other things. Far, far less likely.Even Interstellar didn't try to claim we never had been in space, if you want to use that as a basis for reasonability.

[Lethologica]

Does Star Wars have cameramen in theatres of war, filming Jedi messing stuff up with the Force? Because if not, then it's entirely plausible that average Joe Moisture Farmer thinks that Jedi are weird mystic soldiers that fight with laser swords, and that's it.
If I say yes, which is frankly much more reasonable than the alternative, someone will just say the Empire purged all those records somehow, or that average Joe Moisture Farmer doesn't have access to those records, or whatever.

[Dragonexx]

If I say yes, which is frankly much more reasonable than the alternative, someone will just say the Empire purged all those records somehow, or that average Joe Moisture Farmer doesn't have access to those records, or whatever.

Though I stated that as a possibility, nothing in the Clone Wars show seems to suggest that.

[CynicalAvocado]

Rogue one > a new hope > empire > phantom menace > substitute aotc with certain clone wars arcs > revenge of the sith > return of the jedi > force awakens

[Lord Joeltion]

Though I stated that as a possibility, nothing in the Clone Wars show seems to suggest that.
Star Wars universe, by the time of the movies, does NOT have any form of galaxy span media, no form of camera recording that is available to the public; and certainly not anywhere except for surveillance purposes. It does not have Internet in the way we know it either.

Heck, SW even lacks any form of paper. "Knowledge" is transmitted in pretty scarce and rare holo-recordings rather than the much more massive-practical-cheaper paperbooks (or even cd's). Droids DO record things most of the time, but they are constantly being wiped blank because or memory failure and bugs.

For all its technology, and taking into account the massive scale of the Galaxy as presented (which has far more inhabitable planets and moons than our galaxy, afik), Star Wars setting is a medieval setting when it's about media and spread of information. It is solely on planetary scale that we might have chances to find a "sort of" Media, digital transmission of entertainment shows and video recording material available to the public. And that is also pretty rare.

tl;dr: yeah, the setting was pretty much built around considering the massive scale of the Galaxy, and the creators deliberately built a setting where it is plausible that Jedi or whatever can be pretty much "forgotten/disbelieved" in less than a generation. Whoever thinks this is implausible it simply extrapolating 20th century Earthly MassMedia and comunication's technology (which is so inaccurate I can't properly describe how much). Keep in mind, guys, in ANH, Harry Luke receives a letter droid containing a message that he, indeed, is connected to magic the Force.

-------

OP:
I know Im late, but just wanted to say... whatever "reason" people ever presented in front of my eyes (even on this thread) to claim the prequels "suck"... are also just as true in the Orginal Trilogy.

Acting Skills of a Protocol Droid? Check on both. Silly Use of Fencing Skills? Check on both (only ONE fencing scene works kinda right in each trilogy, both happen to be at the very end). Poor writing and plot development? CHECK ON BOTH A THOUSAND TIMES. I don't know, I'm a very huge fan of SW, really, but there's plenty other movie series I prefer to watch when I wanna have a truly cinematic experience. The big thing SW has on his favour is the explosion of creativity his metaverse presented for a lot of people.

Star Wars isn't about "epicness" or "drama" or "joy at the literary/artistic/cinematic display". No, it is about fascination. It has always been, and you have ever watched any other Lucas's own work. So, in the end, it doesn't matter as much the order you watch the films, as much as the way you watch it, and where you set the expectations for the newcomers. Don't tell them its a "cinema masterpiece", or risk their cynicism spotting the flaws (every single movie has at least one dumb moment). Let them enjoy the adventure and fascination, and if they let themselves being carried away, they might enjoy them. Even Phantom Menace.
at least the acting skills, the story and Jar Jar aren't as bad as what you find on AvatarYeah, show them later. Rogue One is one of the best, but it's so filled with nostalgia that people who haven't watched the series might take it the wrong way. And Force Awakens is pure self reference to previous movies, so no point in watching it in the middle. I suggest show it last, but only for purposes of watching Episode 8. If they aren't so convinced to watch Ep.8 by that point, they won't miss anything if they completely neglect its existence. I liked Ep.7, but it has the dumbest story/characters in the whole saga.

[Legato Endless]

tl;dr: yeah, the setting was pretty much built around considering the massive scale of the Galaxy, and the creators deliberately built a setting where it is plausible that Jedi or whatever can be pretty much "forgotten/disbelieved" in less than a generation. Whoever thinks this is implausible it simply extrapolating 20th century Earthly MassMedia and comunication's technology (which is so inaccurate I can't properly describe how much).

No that's a vast oversimplification of Earth history at least, regardless of the strangeness of Star Wars, because historically far older and more primitive societies also possessed marked avenues of information dispensation and retention. Even before such things as the printing press came into existence. The kind of events that provoke huge information loss require far more confluences of events than a regime change, even in a society based on oral tradition. Although this is straying very close to board rules now.

[Lord Joeltion]

No that's a vast oversimplification of Earth history at least, regardless of the strangeness of Star Wars, because historically far older and more primitive societies also possessed marked avenues of information dispensation and retention. Even before such things as the printing press came into existence. The kind of events that provoke huge information loss require far more confluences of events than a regime change, even in a society based on oral tradition. Although this is straying very close to board rules now.
You are overlooking the fact that they were a) too slow at spreading knowledge, not even mention "news", b) restricted to certain classes or even more restricted to a couple powerful entities, and c) not cheap, therefore, not widely available. For most of Earthly history, it was Governments who directly controlled the spreading of information except for the most local of scales.

That's why I compared SW verse to medieval times (maybe late-medieval, but still before the press). The most advanced technology is already archaic but even then, few can use said tech, if they even know about them in the first place. Commoners are poor to the point they might have a house, even a few commodities or luxuries, but then again are completely unaware/don't care/have no means to know what's going on on the other side of their own planet, not to say their solar system or the Galaxy region. Interstellar travelling is really REALLY expensive and not affordable to most people. You forget that in RL books weren't always available at every store, and even when they were, not everyone could afford such a luxury. SW knows no press, so forget about Daily Galaxy or any "primitive" form of news spreading. Also, the Galaxy is really huuuuuuuuuge, more of the reason for people to be not updated with the last decade Galactic History.
Primitive in the sense that it is older than 20th century

[Legato Endless]

You are overlooking the fact that they were a) too slow at spreading knowledge, not even mention "news", b) restricted to certain classes or even more restricted to a couple powerful entities, and c) not cheap, therefore, not widely available. For most of Earthly history, it was Governments who directly controlled the spreading of information except for the most local of scales.

If one ignores for one example, the influence of tradesman and merchants who quite ably operated and transmitted well outside government purview for the sum total of antiquity. A foundational impetus for ancient governments conducting vast propaganda campaigns is because they didn't have a monopoly of information. And that's ignoring how news does spread, from invasions to plagues. I mean, Ancient Rome and China were quite aware of each other, and not merely at the highest levels. Part of the unpacking of old historical documents is getting through the dozens of divergent names various people's have for other tribes a long, long way from them. A pretty staggering number of cultures 3 millennia ago were by and large a lot more informed about their regional affairs than the average inhabitant in Star Wars.

[Lord Joeltion]

If one ignores for one example, the influence of tradesman and merchants who quite ably operated and transmitted well outside government purview for the sum total of antiquity. A foundational impetus for ancient governments conducting vast propaganda campaigns is because they didn't have a monopoly of information. And that's ignoring how news does spread, from invasions to plagues. I mean, Ancient Rome and China were quite aware of each other, and not merely at the highest levels. Part of the unpacking of old historical documents is getting through the dozens of divergent names various people's have for other tribes a long, long way from them. A pretty staggering number of cultures 3 millennia ago were by and large a lot more informed about their regional affairs than the average inhabitant in Star Wars.
Well, to be fair, China and Rome aren't separated by some light years of pure vacuum. Yes, your assertion of merchants and deployment of human resources was the best way to spread news in the old days. But again, you are disproportionally comparing the influence of one pirate vessel in a community of some hundreds of people at best; with the influence of a fleet on a planet like Coruscant, who surpasses them at least a million to one. Even bigger fleets are a tiny fraction of the population compared to the inhabited planets in SW (where big fleets tend to hang around). Yeah, spaceports are where the usual spot where people who want to hear "news" go; but again, not all the planet is a spaceport. The information is spread only as much as the local channels of information on the planet allow. And they don't tend to be very good in most cases. Even if you jump over the problem of interstellar distances; planetary distances still are a greater problem more often than not. Again, no planet has Internet available as we know it; most planets have trouble communicating troops on the field without the aid of a very COSTLY, INEFFECTIVE Capital class ships (the humongous cruisers). And also most planets visited during the saga, other than Coruscant and Naboo are either backwater planets or still developing planets (like Lando's cozy cottage over the rainbow). It's obvious there would be a lot of misinformed people, as well as poverty and poorly educated (not to confuse with unrefinement) guys and gals. Even Han isn't all that "educated" after all, despite his ship savvyness. There's a reason he is a scoundrel and not a magnate. Poverty both in money and education tend to make people rather unintrigued about info that doesn't fill their bellies or their pockets.

After 20 milennia of "recorded history", nobody has ever fully mapped the Galaxy, and that should be easy for any society with our "low-tech" standards. Even "new" planets pop up on "crowded" regions every century or so. That's a telling fact of how poorly handled information is on SW. Then again, it's only natural with a society as fractured as the one presented in the Galaxy, with hundreads of planetary systems, each harbouring from 5 to 50 different species, each one mixed on the same planet, but most of the time divided in at least half a dozen communities or ghettos.

[Peelee]

Star Wars universe, by the time of the movies, does NOT have any form of galaxy span media, no form of camera recording that is available to the public; and certainly not anywhere except for surveillance purposes. It does not have Internet in the way we know it either.

They had all of these. It was called the Holonet. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HoloNet)


For all its technology, and taking into account the massive scale of the Galaxy as presented (which has far more inhabitable planets and moons than our galaxy, afik), Star Wars setting is a medieval setting when it's about media and spread of information.


The HoloNet was also how they managed instantaneous, galaxy-wide communications, which is one helluva feat. Hell, even light-speed communication was world-changing for us, but I'd call the Star Wars media and information network far from medieval.

[Beleriphon]

Machete Order tells objectively the best story, and anyone who says otherwise is just blinded by the Dark Side.

Skip Episode 1. Maybe throw in Rogue One after the main series (I haven't seen it yet so I don't know if it's any good, but I do know it's an entirely separate story). Episode 7 isn't worth watching on its own, so skip it until we find out if 8 and 9 are worth watching.

Its good. And it explains a lot about the opening of Ep IV, specifically why Vader is so angry at Leia and is trying to literally tear her ship apart, above and beyond the fact that he's a Sith Lord.

[Peelee]

Its good. And it explains a lot about the opening of Ep IV, specifically why Vader is so angry at Leia and is trying to literally tear her ship apart, above and beyond the fact that he's a Sith Lord.

And here I was thinking the opening crawl, soldiers firing at the military, and Leia trying to shield herself via diplomatic immunity explained why Vader was so angry at Leia and was trying to literally tear her ship apart.

[Anthony222]

I watched it in the production order and wasn't confused. The films were made in different times, so it was ok to start watching from the old one to the latest one. Also it gives the possibility to realize how the special effects have been developed for these years.

[runeghost]

This is why I think it's a bad idea, because it's trying to create some kind of deep and meaningful story where there simply isn't one. Star Wars movies, even the good ones, were never ambitious or deep with their plot.

Fun should be the #1 priority when watching them. After all, who cares if the story is "good" if watching it makes you miserable?

There's an argument that at least on an artistic level, Lucas was telling a deep and meaningful story loaded with myth and imagery. If you're interested in that sort of thing, here's a link to get you started:

http://www.starwars.com/news/parallel-journeys-why-the-star-wars-films-are-more-connected-than-you-think

(For the record, I think the Prequels were disasters *as Star Wars films* or even as SF-adventure films. Artistically, there may have been more going on.)

[Lethologica]

There's an argument that at least on an artistic level, Lucas was telling a deep and meaningful story loaded with myth and imagery. If you're interested in that sort of thing, here's a link to get you started:

http://www.starwars.com/news/parallel-journeys-why-the-star-wars-films-are-more-connected-than-you-think

(For the record, I think the Prequels were disasters *as Star Wars films* or even as SF-adventure films. Artistically, there may have been more going on.)
It's unquestionable that Lucas envisioned a deep and meaningful story loaded with myth and imagery. Even the prequel-bashing and quote-mining of RedLetterMedia offers enough of Lucas to demonstrate that.

His success in bringing that vision to the screen was...highly variable. Honestly, I'm reminded of any number of novice writers I've seen online who care more about how the symbolism in their work fits together than about the story itself.