Help! Sorcadin or Pallock?

[Dieo]

Hello. I am starting an epic challenge next week. A campaign from lvl 1 to 20. Several tables playing in the same island leveling in dungeons. I dont know details about the story but it seems there is going to be a strong focus in PvP. I would like to know what is the most powerful/fun to play. Sorcadin seems really interesting but i also like pal/warlock specially fiend pact of the chain for the imp. It would make a great spy and darkness combo to hinder the enemy party. Do i lose too much power? I have already read Sorcadin Blade work guide and i think its great but i would like a comparison with the pallock. Only allowed Core book and SCAG. Any advice is appreciated.

[Specter]

I prefer Sorcadin simply because they get more spell slots to smite. Unless you know short rests will be abundant.

(I think Warladin would be a much trendier name.)

[jaappleton]

I prefer Sorcadin simply because they get more spell slots to smite. Unless you know short rests will be abundant.

(I think Warladin would be a much trendier name.)

That'd a War Domain Cleric / Paladin :smalltongue:

[djreynolds]

Why not all 3?
Paladin 12/ 4 sorcerer/ 4 warlock

[Matrix_Walker]

I'm facing a similar dilemma... I've got a Pally just about to hit 5th level, and I'm debating a CHA based multiclass.

I'm also torn on when to do it... I was waiting for extra attack, but then, how can I not go one more for the Aura?!?!

My GM is allowing UA Material, So I've got Tunnel Fighter for his fighting style, and he's a v.human so level 4 gave him a second feat, I took Pole-arm Master and Sentinel.

So I guess I don't have advice, but I'll be interested in the responses here for my own purposes...
I'd appreciate any advice on where to go with my build as well, especially anything else that may synergize with my pole-arm style.

[Specter]

I'm facing a similar dilemma... I've got a Pally just about to hit 5th level, and I'm debating a CHA based multiclass.

I'm also torn on when to do it... I was waiting for extra attack, but then, how can I not go one more for the Aura?!?!

My GM is allowing UA Material, So I've got Tunnel Fighter for his fighting style, and he's a v.human so level 4 gave him a second feat, I took Pole-arm Master and Sentinel.

So I guess I don't have advice, but I'll be interested in the responses here for my own purposes...
I'd appreciate any advice on where to go with my build as well, especially anything else that may synergize with my pole-arm style.

First of all, reach level 6. Then, multiclass.

I would normally suggest Bard, but your bonus action will be busy with PAM, so Bard is worse. I say Sorcerer with Twin Spell for massive buffing.

[Asmotherion]

Hello. I am starting an epic challenge next week. A campaign from lvl 1 to 20. Several tables playing in the same island leveling in dungeons. I dont know details about the story but it seems there is going to be a strong focus in PvP. I would like to know what is the most powerful/fun to play. Sorcadin seems really interesting but i also like pal/warlock specially fiend pact of the chain for the imp. It would make a great spy and darkness combo to hinder the enemy party. Do i lose too much power? I have already read Sorcadin Blade work guide and i think its great but i would like a comparison with the pallock. Only allowed Core book and SCAG. Any advice is appreciated.

Both are equally cometent, depending on the features you want to focus on.

Step one: First, Decide what features you need from paladin. Decide how much of a Paladin you'll be, and work your way from there. The Break Points are 2/6/7. I would not suggest 11. 2 levels will give you DS, and if you want to cast 9th level spells, that's were to stop. Then if you are willing to dedicate yourself and sacrifice higher level spells, 6 gives you an amazing bonus to ALL saves (including CON, and we'll discuss that latter). Finally, I will suggest Oath of the Ancients if you go for lv7, since it's amazing to gain resistance to all spell damage, wich means you'll probably never loose concentration on spells. Finally, you may or may not want an optional 8th level for a feat, depenting on your distribution. Once you know how many levels you'll invest in Paladin, it's easyer to work on the break points of the other classes.

Step 2.1: Now, in the case of the Sordin, you have 2 options; one is to go Paladin (as much as you decided on step one)/Sorcerer X. The other is to go for a Warlock Dip into the mix, for Hex, and adding Eldritch Blast into your Arcenal. Hex (with your amazing concentration saves mentioned earlyer) can substitute well for your 11th level Paladin feature, and overall adds a die of damage to your mix. Other options include a Quarterstaff-wielding Palading with Pact of the Tome for Shillelagh, to attack/dammage with Charisma, allowing you a lower Str/Dex. Especially if you go for Full Plate via feats, you can decrese all MADness next to 0 this way, focusing only on Cha>Con and having 13 Str for the multiclass. I would refrain from Pact of the blade on this one, and go for it only in case of a Palock.

Step 2.2: In case of the Palock, I still like the idea of taking your first level at least as a Sorcerer, for Con Saves. The rest is the same as above, except you have less, but more renewable spell slots.

Step 3: Builds: Here are some builds I suggest;

Simple:
Sorcerer or Fighter1/Warlock 12(Pact of the Blade)/Paladin7(Ancients<Vengence)
Level Up: Sorcerer1 (Cantrips Including SCAG+Dragon Scales+Con Saves) or Fighter1 (FS+Heavy Armor Prof.+Shields+Con Saves)/Warlock2 (Eldritch Blast+Hex+Invocations)/Paladin2 (Divine Smite)/Warlock1(Pact of the Blade)/Paladin6/Warlock8

Pros: Very Strong Build. Your only Reason for Pact of the Blade thogh would be to add your Cha to Damage at level 20, and proficiency with any weapon you transform your weapon into, which is quite far-fetched. If you started with Fighter instead of Sorcerer, you may as well get TomeLock for Shillelagh, and lower Madness. This is mostly a good build for a Hexblade, if UA is enabled for the Campain. Vengence 7 gives you an improved version of Polearm Master+Sentinel, and that's why I gave it an edge in this specific build, as it's the most Melee oriented of the rest. Use PAM for a third DS attack. You have 3 ever renewable 5th level spell slots every Short Rest.

Cons: Quite MAD.

Sorcerer 17/Paladin2/Fighter1
Build as: Sorcerer 3/Fighter1/Paladin 2/Sorcerer X

Pros: Simple and Streightforward: Quicken Green-Flame Blade every round, then cast it a second time for more damage. Divine Smite every time, and spam more. You'll probably go for Str>Cha>Con if using a Great Weapon and GWMaster, and to do so you'll invest in Heavy Armor, Heavy Armor Master and maybe even Durable for extra HP.

Cons: Wile not MAD per say, it prevents ASI, as it's very Feat-Dependent. You can go Dex, but lower you damage a lot by doing so, as you won'y be able to qualyfy for GWM. The only good way to make the Dex based work is to get a Fighter level, and go Two-Weapon Fighter. Now you do 4 Dex Based attacks per round, and apply your Dex on each hit... better yeah.

Sorcerer 13/Fighter1/Paladin(Ancients)6
Same as above, but this time you have less spell slots, for better saves. Get War Caster and Magic Initiate for Hex, and you have an ever running hex. Two Weapon Fighter for more DS spamming.

Sorcerer 9/Fighter1/Warlock(Pact of the Tome)3/Paladin7(Ancients/Vengance)
This one is goes for the above approach, but gives you an equally good Ranged Spell Attack for being a real Ace of all combat ranges; You ofcource retain your ever-active Hex. Then, in melee range, you shilelagh your Quarterstaff, and from now on you quicken Green-Flame Blade (provided you are a Fire Dragon Sorcerer for extra Cha on Hit), and GFB again. Each time you hit, Divine Smite. When someone comes into melee, he provokes from you due to PAM and War Caster allows you to use Booming Blade in that case, and then, if Vengence, you can opt to go away 15 feet to provoke him to move, and get extra dmg; Don't forget to Divine Smite your Booming Blade too. This way, you have control of who is in melee with you. Then, if you feel like combating ranged, you have Eldritch Blast to hurt people from 120 feet... You are a true master of combat and people hardly can believe it's all thanks to your Ego; Because indeed, all you need for this Build is a Good Charisma... Now, depending on your taste, you may go for Full Plate+Shield+Shield Master. Or you may Invest in Dexterity instead and have the option to TWF without Shillelagh. Or Twin Shillelagh on two Clubs, and get the Dual Wielder Feat. Your options are endless, and you get the best of 4 worlds.

[Dieo]

Thank you for your answer. I see you dont recommend Chain as the pact which is basically the reason i wanted to go warlock instead of sorcadin. the exploration / spying was the best part of my idea. I still have to decide what woukd be more fun Straight Paladin, Pal 6/Warlock X, Pal 2/SorcererX or even Pal6/Lock3/Sorcerer11, I only have 3 more days and am still deciding :smallconfused:

[furryblueelf]

Fantastic response Asmotherion. However can you advise why the one level of fighter dip for all the builds. Im trying to wrap my non munchkin brain around it. Obviously its not to get heavy armour or weapons as Paladin will have that covered.