[SPOILERS][THEORY] OotS' next Divine Caster

[bssbruno88]

Hi everybody!

If I'm breaking any rule, please let me know, but I think I'm clean :)

I'm not sure this "theory" will be accurate, but I believe it is a good guess and It does have some logic to it. Maybe it is and stretch... maybe I'm just hoping for it, but hear me out...

Well, the party is missing a divine caster, no other cleric is able to interfere (not even other classes like Favored soul), so I believe... OotS will find and Druid as a temporary member.

Druids are main casters that aren't forced by a God's hand. They have enough spells to do what Durkon usually did (healing, protections, control weather and some smacking with Wild Shape Instead of Holy Might).

Druids represent the Earth and Nature itself. I don'the think Druids will be quiet while clerics and their God's decide to shut down the world without questioning. Maybe while the party is on the Mechane, one is already on the way to aid the party in their quest to preserve the world.

Another thing to consider is that the OotS Is heading to the last dungeon. A dungeon filled with animals and beasts, so a Druid would be an awesome addition and an awesome counter to Oona, who is aiding Team evil and have a lot of knowledge about the Dungeon and it's creatures. It is not only fitting, but useful too.

Finally, OotS always had a lot of representative for the classes. It doesn't matter if you play a Fighter, Wizard or Bard, the class is usually there and well represented.
Some weren't even classes on the base books of D&D, like Favored Soul (and some Prestige classes, like Shadowdancer or NPC classes like Aristocrat).

But I believe Druids are the only class that haday only one appearance.

Although Leeky was strong Druid (countered Haley, 11v1ed V and was only defeated after being ganged, we barely saw any of his character and personality. He appeared, attacked, was ganged and knocked unconscious.

I don't have any other evidence aside of that, but I was confident that the Giant would give us at least another Druid character until the end of the Comic and now is a dawned good moment for one to appear, especially now that the party's ride might be gone (thank you Andi)

What do you guys think about it?

[Peelee]

Hi everybody!

If I'm breaking any rule, please let me know, but I think I'm clean :)

I'm not sure this "theory" will be accurate, but I believe it is a good guess and It does have some logic to it. Maybe it is and stretch... maybe I'm just hoping for it, but hear me out...

Well, the party is missing a divine caster, no other cleric is able to interfere (not even other classes like Favored soul), so I believe... OotS will find and Druid as a temporary member.

Right off the bat, Clerics are absolutely allowed to interfere, as we can see they are already with the Frost Giants. Also, Clerics don't need to worship a deity, as we saw during the Godsmoot.

Also, friendly tip: the FAQ is horribly outdated, and you don't really need to put spoiler tags on theories anymore. Imean, it's not disallowed, it's just nobody really cares one way or the other.

[Haluesen]

Hi everybody!

If I'm breaking any rule, please let me know, but I think I'm clean :)

I'm not sure this "theory" will be accurate, but I believe it is a good guess and It does have some logic to it. Maybe it is and stretch... maybe I'm just hoping for it, but hear me out...

Well, the party is missing a divine caster, no other cleric is able to interfere (not even other classes like Favored soul), so I believe... OotS will find and Druid as a temporary member.

Druids are main casters that aren't forced by a God's hand. They have enough spells to do what Durkon usually did (healing, protections, control weather and some smacking with Wild Shape Instead of Holy Might).

Druids represent the Earth and Nature itself. I don'the think Druids will be quiet while clerics and their God's decide to shut down the world without questioning. Maybe while the party is on the Mechane, one is already on the way to aid the party in their quest to preserve the world.

Another thing to consider is that the OotS Is heading to the last dungeon. A dungeon filled with animals and beasts, so a Druid would be an awesome addition and an awesome counter to Oona, who is aiding Team evil and have a lot of knowledge about the Dungeon and it's creatures. It is not only fitting, but useful too.

Finally, OotS always had a lot of representative for the classes. It doesn't matter if you play a Fighter, Wizard or Bard, the class is usually there and well represented.
Some weren't even classes on the base books of D&D, like Favored Soul (and some Prestige classes, like Shadowdancer or NPC classes like Aristocrat).

But I believe Druids are the only class that haday only one appearance.

Although Leeky was strong Druid (countered Haley, 11v1ed V and was only defeated after being ganged, we barely saw any of his character and personality. He appeared, attacked, was ganged and knocked unconscious.

I don't have any other evidence aside of that, but I was confident that the Giant would give us at least another Druid character until the end of the Comic and now is a dawned good moment for one to appear, especially now that the party's ride might be gone (thank you Andi)

What do you guys think about it?

Well it'd certainly be an interesting idea. I kinda doubt the Giant will add a major character like that this far into the book, unless at the end before the next book so they have a full team before getting to Kraagor's Tomb.

Other classes have had only one appearance though, I do know that. The Shadowdancer and Favored Soul you mentioned, Miko might have been the only monk...just little things though.

Anyway a druid party member is possible and could certainly be interesting. I just don't bet on it, at least until the Durkon Situation is no longer a situation.


Right off the bat, Clerics are absolutely allowed to interfere, as we can see they are already with the Frost Giants. Also, Clerics don't need to worship a deity, as we saw during the Godsmoot.

Also, friendly tip: the FAQ is horribly outdated, and you don't really need to put spoiler tags on theories anymore. Imean, it's not disallowed, it's just nobody really cares one way or the other.

It's questionable if they are technically "allowed" to interfere. I get the impression that what Thrymm and his followers are up to would be frowned upon. At the Godsmoot he gave no reason for why he voted to destroy the world, so I think Hel bribed him somehow. And no other gods have sent their followers to intercede one way or the other here. But again, what is allowed is technically up in the air. I imagine if this whole series of events comes to the attention of the other high priests, they will certainly have more than a few words for the High Priest of Thrymm.

[Clistenes]

I think Clerics aren't allowed to fight inside the Great Hall were gods debate... but outside? I think fighting ouside the building is totally allowed.

[bssbruno88]

Right off the bat, Clerics are absolutely allowed to interfere, as we can see they are already with the Frost Giants. Also, Clerics don't need to worship a deity, as we saw during the Godsmoot.

Also, friendly tip: the FAQ is horribly outdated, and you don't really need to put spoiler tags on theories anymore. Imean, it's not disallowed, it's just nobody really cares one way or the other.

I'm not sure if Thyrm's actions will go unpunished, but OK, maybe they can interfere.
And IIRC those Earth worshippers were the only Clerics without Deities, but I'm not really sure.

The point is: most of the high level and influential Clerics in their world are locked on that mountain. Maybe their apprentices could help, but not the kind of Clerics able to go against Xykon, Redcloak or Durkula.
But I see your point.
As I said, I don't have evidence to back it up, but it would make sense! :)

Thank you for the advice. And I read all the rules before posting :/

[bssbruno88]

Well it'd certainly be an interesting idea. I kinda doubt the Giant will add a major character like that this far into the book, unless at the end before the next book so they have a full team before getting to Kraagor's Tomb.

Other classes have had only one appearance though, I do know that. The Shadowdancer and Favored Soul you mentioned, Miko might have been the only monk...just little things though.

Anyway a druid party member is possible and could certainly be interesting. I just don't bet on it, at least until the Durkon Situation is no longer a situation.

It's questionable if they are technically "allowed" to interfere. I get the impression that what Thrymm and his followers are up to would be frowned upon. At the Godsmoot he gave no reason for why he voted to destroy the world, so I think Hel bribed him somehow. And no other gods have sent their followers to intercede one way or the other here. But again, what is allowed is technically up in the air. I imagine if this whole series of events comes to the attention of the other high priests, they will certainly have more than a few words for the High Priest of Thrymm.

I don't know how long will this book be, but they introduced Oona and her Wolf not many pages ago, but maybe I'm over thinking.

The shadow dancer is a Prestige Class and a both this and Favored Soul aren'the on the Core Books, so there is that...

As you said, Monks weren't represented as well, because Miko was more "paladinish than monkish" but at least we got a good insight on her character and personality.
We read about her martial training, her early days at the dojo and even saw monk abilities being used by her. I'm not justifying it, though. Compared to Rogues, fighters and wizards, monks weren't really represented, but at least they weren'the used in a fight and forgotten :) I'mean not complaining about the story, either, I'may just saying now would be a good time to the Druids of this world to send a representative to help the party to maintain balance and keep the world from heavenly euthanasia.

[bssbruno88]

I think Clerics aren't allowed to fight inside the Great Hall were gods debate... but outside? I think fighting ouside the building is totally allowed.

I believe this is more of a Feud thing. If ONE cleric helps the party, every other cleric of God's that voted yes to destroy the world would be justified to take action against them, too. Inside or outside of the building.

Also, most of the high level and influential Clerics in their world are on the meeting.
Maybe they could send apprentices, but not the kind of Clerics able to go against Xykon, Redcloak or Durkula.
But as I said: I don't have evidence to back it up. I just believe that if the Giant expects to show Druids a little more before the end of the story, now would be the perfect time.

As I said above, I can't believe the Druids of this world aren't aware of what is about to happen, nor that they are willing to allow this "heavenly euthanasia" to happen.

[Peelee]

I'm not sure if Thyrm's actions will go unpunished, but OK, maybe they can interfere.
And IIRC those Earth worshippers were the only Clerics without Deities, but I'm not really sure.
The Giant heavily implies that non-theistic clerics beyond those exist:

This is how I have always understood it (and keep in mind this is a basic D&D answer, and not a statement about OOTS per se):

On the most basic level, the substance of D&D multiverse is able to be shaped by personal belief. This is one of the main tenets of the Planescape setting, where planar locations shift around based on the moral leanings of the population. Most mortals don't have enough belief to really accomplish anything on their own, though, but the gods do. So mortals become clerics of a god, and their devotion to the god allows the god to funnel that belief-power back to them in the form of concrete magical effects. The gods aren't really the source of the power as much as they are the catalyst to convert it into something useful. They can tinker with the power in the process, by dictating spells or withholding power or what have you.

Non-theistic clerics get their spells from a wide distributed network of beings with similar philosophies who can act as catalysts for the cleric—but because these are not centralized, none of them can exercise "veto power" over the cleric, nor is the cleric required to acknowledge their dominance (or even their existence). In Gontor's case, it may be that a powerful Earth Elemental is granting him his spells, but it could be a different one each day, or even some spells from one and some from another. If any of those elementals decide they don't like what he's doing with his magic, he just gets his spells from someone else that day. He may even be entirely oblivious to which elemental provides his spells at any point, and therefore is under no obligation to any of them. Unfortunately, that also means that no single elemental is going to be invested enough in Gontor to care what happens to him.

Analogy time! Regular clerics have an employer-employee relationship, where the employer (god) consumes the work (prayer) that the employee (cleric) generates and in return provides them with compensation (spells), where that compensation is actually generated by the work being done by the entire company (church). A non-theistic cleric is more like a freelance writer; they perform the work (believe in a philosophy) that they feel is right for them, and then sell that work to whatever client (quasi-deific elemental beings) is willing to pay (provide spells) for it. The freelancer has more flexibility than the employee to do as they wish, but they also do not have many benefits of steady employment.


The point is: most of the high level and influential Clerics in their world are locked on that mountain. Maybe their apprentices could help, but not the kind of Clerics able to go against Xykon, Redcloak or Durkula.
The single high priest for each god is locked away. We have no way of knowing how many high level and influential clerics are in the world outside the mountain.


Thank you for the advice. And I read all the rules before posting :/

I wasn't commenting on any rules of posting, just giving you a heads up since you likely put a spoiler tag in the title because of the FAQ. Though the bolded part (awkward face included) is a bit odd since you previously said
If I'm breaking any rule, please let me know, but I think I'm clean :)

[bssbruno88]

The Giant heavily implies that non-theistic clerics beyond those exist:
OK. That's fair. I haven't read it before and I understood (wrongly) that they were the only ones. Thank you!



I wasn't commenting on any rules of posting, just giving you a heads up since you likely put a spoiler tag in the title because of the FAQ. Though the bolded part (awkward face included) is a bit odd since you previously said

Ah, I see. Thank you again for the advice :)

And you are also correct that we can't assume (as I did) that there aren't many other high leveled clerics outside of the Godsmoot, but from what I understand I believe this is more of a Feud thing. If ONE cleric helps the party, every other cleric of God's that voted yes to destroy the world would be justified to take action against them, too.

But this was my impression, we don't really know what will happen next.
I believe Thyrmm is attacking the party because Hel offered something in her next world. He is willing to attack not only because he knows he won't be punished (since if his followers are successful there won't be a world) but also because he knows the other God's clerics won'the be able to organize a counter measure that fast.

But... this is just my interpretation. I'll have to wait until we know more about how the Churches will react to that.

[KorvinStarmast]

I think the divine caster will be Durkon, once Durkula is defeated and a suitable raise/resurrect spell is cast by the High Priest of Thor or Odin, after the Order defeat the attempt to railroad the council.

[bssbruno88]

I think the divine caster will be Durkon, once Durkula is defeated and a suitable raise/resurrect spell is cast by the High Priest of Thor or Odin, after the Order defeat the attempt to railroad the council.

Do you think the party can defeat Durkula and his vampires without a Divine caster?
I agree with you that Durkon will go back to the party before facing Xykon, but I believe they will find a temporary team member to do so, don't you think?

[Peelee]

Do you think the party can defeat Durkula and his vampires without a Divine caster?
Yes.

I agree with you that Durkon will go back to the party before facing Xykon, but I believe they will find a temporary team member to do so, don't you think?
No.
Wheeeee!

[KorvinStarmast]

Do you think the party can defeat Durkula and his vampires without a Divine caster? Yes, providing Roy has the green sword of awesome in his possession and (perhaps) a few dwarfs show up to assist? (That last not for sure).
Note 1: that sword does in undead.
Note 2: Varsuvius is a spell caster who can ruin anyone's day, I don't care who you are.
Note 3: Haley/Wands (She bought a mitt full of them in Gnome Town)
Note 4: Elan ... not sure how he'll fare ... he's a wild card in this fight.
Note 5: Belkar is a potential liability, given how easy it has been for Vamps to dominate him. He's gotten a few rings (in Gnome Town) to try and mitigate that, but his Wisdom (IIRC, a dump stat) may need a boost from V (like when he healed Elan in DCF) to not get taken out of the fight early.
Note 6: The lizard/T Rex may in due course become Un Polymorphed ... not sure.
Note 7: Do Not Underestimate Mr Scruffy! (recall him being in the face of Tsukiko during DSTP)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Belkar has a Protection From Evil cloak clasp. Vampiric Domination is no longer an option.

[KorvinStarmast]

Belkar has a Protection From Evil cloak clasp. Vampiric Domination is no longer an option. Then I guess that Elan is the long pole in the tent (not just in Haley's tent) for that battle.