Endless Throwing Dagger build help? :)

[tkuremento]

I have an amazing concept that I only recently realized I can do despite the pieces having been out for awhile. The basics require 3 in Fighter EK for War Bond to recall weapons as a bonus action, and another 3 in Inquisitive Rogue to use a bonus action to do a check to get Sneak Attack regardless of advantage. This means in combat I can start a turn off with the bonus action to get Sneak Attack, then throw the dagger. Then the following turns would be me recalling the dagger then throwing it again. Also as EK I could get Booming Blade just in case I am in melee range.

My question is, what else should I look at in this build? That includes feats, race that works best for all of this, the rest of my levels, and how many levels to put into EK before I stop.

[JackPhoenix]

You don't need Inquisitive to get sneak attacks, all you need is to have a friend next to the target. Swashbuckler also allows you to get sneak attack without advantage if no creature (friend or foe) beside your target is adjacent to you.

The build also stops working (well, not really, it will still work the same) once you hit fighter 5 and get Extra Attack... you'll waste the Extra Attack, as you can recall the dagger only once in a turn. For the same reason, it won't work with Action Surge. At this point, you may as well go pure rogue, have a lot of daggers and draw a new one every turn, while saving your BA for Cunning Action.

[tkuremento]

You don't need Inquisitive to get sneak attacks, all you need is to have a friend next to the target. Swashbuckler also allows you to get sneak attack without advantage if no creature (friend or foe) beside your target is adjacent to you.

The build also stops working (well, not really, it will still work the same) once you hit fighter 5 and get Extra Attack... you'll waste the Extra Attack, as you can recall the dagger only once in a turn. For the same reason, it won't work with Action Surge. At this point, you may as well go pure rogue, have a lot of daggers and draw a new one every turn, while saving your BA for Cunning Action.

This is why I was asking several question, which include How far to level EK. If I only went to EK4 then I'm not even getting extra attack. The goal is to take mostly levels in Rogue. I also like the other aspects of Inquisitive as well as there will be times where I might want to pick off their back line or attack someone else that our melee aren't.

So in the end it isn't that other things might work better or not, it is EK3 and Inquisitive 3 are staples to this build and I want to build upon it, not replace it.

[Hrugner]

You've taken the idea as far as it's supported honestly. You aren't getting more than one attack per round and there aren't any feats or spells that support attacking at range with one dagger per round. You could change that up to darts instead so that sharpshooter worked with it, but darts are so light and cheap that there would be no point conserving them like this. At sixth level you'd be throwing one dagger per round for 1d4+2d6+dex damage; assuming a 18 for dex that averages out to 13.5 at a point where players are getting two attacks. It's better than attacking with a cantrip, but worse than if you'd gone all the way up as one class and chosen a standard weapon.

I like the concept, but knife throwers never seem to get much support in D&D and 5th ed is no exception. A straight trade of the bonded weapon ability for a thrown weapon that returns to your hand before your next attack would be fair, I'd see if your DM could get on board with something like that.

[TripleD]

I like the concept, but knife throwers never seem to get much support in D&D and 5th ed is no exception. A straight trade of the bonded weapon ability for a thrown weapon that returns to your hand before your next attack would be fair, I'd see if your DM could get on board with something like that.

Would porting over "Quick Draw" from 3.5 as a feat be overpowered in 5e? Maybe add some of the features from the old "Master Thrower" prestige class to make it more in line with the spirit of 5e?

[tkuremento]

You've taken the idea as far as it's supported honestly. You aren't getting more than one attack per round and there aren't any feats or spells that support attacking at range with one dagger per round. You could change that up to darts instead so that sharpshooter worked with it, but darts are so light and cheap that there would be no point conserving them like this. At sixth level you'd be throwing one dagger per round for 1d4+2d6+dex damage; assuming a 18 for dex that averages out to 13.5 at a point where players are getting two attacks. It's better than attacking with a cantrip, but worse than if you'd gone all the way up as one class and chosen a standard weapon.

I like the concept, but knife throwers never seem to get much support in D&D and 5th ed is no exception. A straight trade of the bonded weapon ability for a thrown weapon that returns to your hand before your next attack would be fair, I'd see if your DM could get on board with something like that.

When I come up with these concepts and ideas, I have them in my pocket. I don't know what DM I'll have for them, so I try to keep it as RAW as I can. The character concept isn't to do absolute damage or anything, but to throw daggers and get sneak attack. I'd probably also have WIS be relatively high to ensure I can succeed the checks required to gain the sneak attack.

I was just wondering what things might compliment this that I might have overlooked is all. What race might benefit the most, what feats if any, etc. My goal is rarely ever game-breaking DPR and is instead want a concept to flourish.

[Errow]

My group uses the Feats from ZMan's Tweaks (posted on GitP and easily found via Google, sorry I can't post links). One of them is:

Thrown Weapon Expert
You always hit your mark, gain the following benefits:
Attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage on your thrown weapon attack rolls.
Your thrown weapon attacks ignore half cover and treat three-quarters cover as half cover.
You can draw weapons with the thrown property as a free action and can make as many attacks in a round as you have attacks and weapons available.
As a bonus action you may draw and throw a light or finesse thrown weapon so long as you have at least one free hand.


My group has a College of Swords Bard with this Feat, and the player loves it. From an optimization standpoint, there are probably better ways to go, but the character is a lot of fun! Hope this helps!

[Asmotherion]

I like the concept. You can even add 3 levels of Blade-Lock, to have a 3rd "bounded dagger" and cyrcle among them.
Or just the Warlock Levels really, as all you need is 1 dagger, the rest would be for show.

A diferent approach to this would be to be a Wizard Conjurer, and use minor Conjuration to create the dagger in question. It may be suggested that prestidigitation makes the cut, but the rulling is too blurry on this one, and you're really better off with being a Conjurer if you want strict RAW. Add Sword Burst and Cloud of Daggers to your Arsenal for flavor.

Combine all the above ideas, Et Voila: You have a very edgy character ready :P

[tkuremento]

My group uses the Feats from ZMan's Tweaks (posted on GitP and easily found via Google, sorry I can't post links). One of them is:

Thrown Weapon Expert
You always hit your mark, gain the following benefits:
Attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage on your thrown weapon attack rolls.
Your thrown weapon attacks ignore half cover and treat three-quarters cover as half cover.
You can draw weapons with the thrown property as a free action and can make as many attacks in a round as you have attacks and weapons available.
As a bonus action you may draw and throw a light or finesse thrown weapon so long as you have at least one free hand.


My group has a College of Swords Bard with this Feat, and the player loves it. From an optimization standpoint, there are probably better ways to go, but the character is a lot of fun! Hope this helps!

Thanks. I do sometimes keep homebrew in my pocket just in case I have a DM I can work with. However I generally build the basic character in RAW to be safe. I like having a few characters built at all times for my next game or if a current character dies.

[Talionis]

Getting two attacks isn't a waste. You'll miss with your first attack a significant amount of the time. Having a second attack helps to insure you consistently sneak attack. Throwing a second non magical dagger each round is not a bad thing. But more than two attacks is probably a waste.

Also don't forget that getting attacks of opportunity is a good think because you can fire sneak attack off on opponents rounds too.

[Strill]

Would porting over "Quick Draw" from 3.5 as a feat be overpowered in 5e? Maybe add some of the features from the old "Master Thrower" prestige class to make it more in line with the spirit of 5e?

It would be very underpowered. You could make it a half-feat and it'd still be underpowered. Frankly the rule about not being able to throw multiple daggers per turn is dumb.

[Asmotherion]

Hey, I just figured out you can actually use two weapon fighting when throwing the daggers! :D

So, basically, have two daggers bound, and if you miss your first attack, you have a second chance at Sneak Attack with the second dagger. If you have the Dual Wielder Feat, you can also draw two more Daggers as a free action on your turn, adding to your potential to Sneak Attack, and your damage. Then, you can use your bonus action on the end of your first turn to summon one of the daggers to your hand, and, during your next turn, do the same before you attack. You just need a good suply of daggers on your person, somewere around 16 (including your bound daggers) should be all right I guess... imagine very small daggers straped around your feet/belt/coat etc.

Considering Advantage (since it's sneak attack) on all of them, that gives you 4 attacks with advantage, aka 8 chances per turn to apply Sneak Attack... Very good odds

It's totally worth the 5th Fighter level. :)

[tkuremento]

Hey, I just figured out you can actually use two weapon fighting when throwing the daggers! :D

So, basically, have two daggers bound, and if you miss your first attack, you have a second chance at Sneak Attack with the second dagger. If you have the Dual Wielder Feat, you can also draw two more Daggers as a free action on your turn, adding to your potential to Sneak Attack, and your damage. Then, you can use your bonus action on the end of your first turn to summon one of the daggers to your hand, and, during your next turn, do the same before you attack. You just need a good suply of daggers on your person, somewere around 16 (including your bound daggers) should be all right I guess... imagine very small daggers straped around your feet/belt/coat etc.

Considering Advantage (since it's sneak attack) on all of them, that gives you 4 attacks with advantage, aka 8 chances per turn to apply Sneak Attack... Very good odds

It's totally worth the 5th Fighter level though. :)

I can only recall a single dagger, and the concept isn't to throw lots of daggers at once but rather use a dagger over and over again. The reason I ask about when to stop EK cause if I stop 3 for Weapon Bond I'm just 1 level away from an ASI, if I stop at 4 I'm 1 level away from Extra Attack, if I stop at 5 I'm 1 level away from another ASI, etc etc etc. For the most part I don't have plans for getting an Extra Attack because one recall a turn. I'd likely have two daggers though, since I can bond with two daggers. It also lets me be sneaky and refrain from recalling the first dagger until after I attack with the second, so the enemy doesn't catch on to my ability. It also means that if I think something might destroy my magic dagger (assuming I get a magic weapon at all) I can test with a crappy dagger first.

[Asmotherion]

I can only recall a single dagger, and the concept isn't to throw lots of daggers at once but rather use a dagger over and over again. The reason I ask about when to stop EK cause if I stop 3 for Weapon Bond I'm just 1 level away from an ASI, if I stop at 4 I'm 1 level away from Extra Attack, if I stop at 5 I'm 1 level away from another ASI, etc etc etc. For the most part I don't have plans for getting an Extra Attack because one recall a turn. I'd likely have two daggers though, since I can bond with two daggers. It also lets me be sneaky and refrain from recalling the first dagger until after I attack with the second, so the enemy doesn't catch on to my ability. It also means that if I think something might destroy my magic dagger (assuming I get a magic weapon at all) I can test with a crappy dagger first.

IMO Rogue 15/Fighter5 or Rogue 14/Fighter 6 depending on how much you need an extra ASI and if you're willing to trade off 1d6 dammage on your sneack attack for it.

[Hrugner]

When I come up with these concepts and ideas, I have them in my pocket. I don't know what DM I'll have for them, so I try to keep it as RAW as I can. The character concept isn't to do absolute damage or anything, but to throw daggers and get sneak attack. I'd probably also have WIS be relatively high to ensure I can succeed the checks required to gain the sneak attack.

I was just wondering what things might compliment this that I might have overlooked is all. What race might benefit the most, what feats if any, etc. My goal is rarely ever game-breaking DPR and is instead want a concept to flourish.

I mostly focus on keeping up with the middle, which doesn't look like it would happen with the build. If I were building this concept, I'd probably do it with a caster of some sort rather than spending as many leveled resources on the dagger since it would be hard to move it's versatility or power upward no matter how many levels were behind it. Maybe a hexblade warlock or a moonbow warlock with DM permission to refluff the moonbow as a returning dagger.

Refluffing the magic stone spell as a magic daggers spell would also be a simple change. It's a step down in power since the range is shorter, it can't be used with a sling, and can't gain benefit from the sharpshooter feet. A DM who said no to that probably just likes to say no.

Sticking with your original concept though, wood elf or halfling will get you quite a bit more out of hiding and thus more sneak attacks. Since you're splitting rogue and fighter anyway, you may want to go F8/R12 for the two bonus ASIs you get that way.

[tkuremento]

I just remembered from UA the Close Quarters Shooter fighting style. This is PERFECT as it doesn't specify ranged weapons, just ranged attacks. I'm fairly certain there is a huge difference between the wordings "ranged attack" and "attack with a ranged weapon" or "ranged weapon attack" and as such you are making a ranged attack with a melee (thrown) weapon, which allows it to work. It is the same wording that prevents use with Sharpshooter and Skulker though, to mine understanding.

[tkuremento]

I mostly focus on keeping up with the middle, which doesn't look like it would happen with the build. If I were building this concept, I'd probably do it with a caster of some sort rather than spending as many leveled resources on the dagger since it would be hard to move it's versatility or power upward no matter how many levels were behind it. Maybe a hexblade warlock or a moonbow warlock with DM permission to refluff the moonbow as a returning dagger.

Refluffing the magic stone spell as a magic daggers spell would also be a simple change. It's a step down in power since the range is shorter, it can't be used with a sling, and can't gain benefit from the sharpshooter feet. A DM who said no to that probably just likes to say no.

Sticking with your original concept though, wood elf or halfling will get you quite a bit more out of hiding and thus more sneak attacks. Since you're splitting rogue and fighter anyway, you may want to go F8/R12 for the two bonus ASIs you get that way.

F8/R12 gives me 7 ASI, where as F4/R16 or F6/R14 both give 6 ASI (if I decide for extra attack, I'd get the second fighter ASI for sure as well)--so only an extra ASI/on par with Rogue :smalltongue:

The thing about this concept I have is I want there to be an aspect of rogue with an aspect of sneak attack. This is why inquisitive is important for guaranteed ranged sneak attacks, plus a lot of other options won't work with the sneak attack.

[Hrugner]

F8/R12 gives me 7 ASI, where as F4/R16 or F6/R14 both give 6 ASI (if I decide for extra attack, I'd get the second fighter ASI for sure as well)--so only an extra ASI/on par with Rogue :smalltongue:

The thing about this concept I have is I want there to be an aspect of rogue with an aspect of sneak attack. This is why inquisitive is important for guaranteed ranged sneak attacks, plus a lot of other options won't work with the sneak attack.

I figure since you're doing something weird with the character, then you may as well go all out and get a bunch of feats or ASIs for fun.

You can get some aspects of the rogue in several different ways without having rogue among your classes, I try to think about what it is I want from the class and take no more than that. I'm also not sure what the value is in chasing "sneak attack" as the name of an ability you have rather than emulating it's effect through alternative mechanics. Your starting point is little different than someone without sneak attack using darts and the sharpshooter feat, why is the one called "sneak attack" preferable?

[MrStabby]

Rogue monk might work.

Daggers are monk weapons so their damage will scale with monk attack, you get a lot of cool abilities as monk.

If you take thief as the rogue archetype you can use fast hands to use your free object interaction to draw a second weapon.

[LudicSavant]

Would porting over "Quick Draw" from 3.5 as a feat be overpowered in 5e?

If anything it'd be underpowered.

[Steampunkette]

Are you willing to find a DM who will let you refluff a bit?

Go with the Warlock, throw javelins, RP the javelins as strong magic daggers. Or use a Hand Crossbow and refluff it as dagger throwing. Skip actually throwing daggers and instead RP Eldritch Blast as a thrown magical daggers.

Heck, if you go with EB you get 4 "Daggers". Though you'd need a -lenient- DM to consider it a "Ranged weapon"

[Socratov]

You've taken the idea as far as it's supported honestly. You aren't getting more than one attack per round and there aren't any feats or spells that support attacking at range with one dagger per round. You could change that up to darts instead so that sharpshooter worked with it, but darts are so light and cheap that there would be no point conserving them like this. At sixth level you'd be throwing one dagger per round for 1d4+2d6+dex damage; assuming a 18 for dex that averages out to 13.5 at a point where players are getting two attacks. It's better than attacking with a cantrip, but worse than if you'd gone all the way up as one class and chosen a standard weapon.

I like the concept, but knife throwers never seem to get much support in D&D and 5th ed is no exception. A straight trade of the bonded weapon ability for a thrown weapon that returns to your hand before your next attack would be fair, I'd see if your DM could get on board with something like that.

I concur. Though if you were to port stuff over from 3.5 IMO it would be the weapon crystals. A crystal of returning would solve a lot of issues. (just make sure that it all works out action economy wise).

As for taking 3.5 stuff I think that turning the Master Thrower (and halfling thrown weapons expert and invisible blade) into a fighter or rogue subclass would make for a great option.

though if you give me a bit of time I'll cook up something. probably an invisible blade for the rogue (for any dagger support, really), and a master thrower mirrorring the battlemaster for fighter.

Be back in a bit.

Behold! Untested and potentially unbalanced. So help with balancing is very welcome...


Who would want to fight in a way that disarms himself? Only an idiot that's who!
The master Thrower is a fighter that does not hold onto his weapon, no far form it, he keeps his foes at bay while he tags each of them with a well places thrown weapon.

At 3rd lvl when you choose this archetype you get the following class features:

Quick Draw: before making an attack roll, if your had is empty you may draw a weapon with the 'Thrown' property for free

Easy Tricking: you may select 1 trick from the Easy Thrown Weapons Tricks List. during an attack roll you may modify your attack roll using this trick. When you gain a new trick you may exchange a known trick for another one on the same list.

At 7th lvl you gain the following class features.

Easy Tricking: you gain the use of one additional trick on the Easy Thrown Weapons Tricks List.

At 10th level you gain the following class features:

Moderate Tricking: you gain the use of one additional trick on the Easy Thrown Weapons Tricks List or the Moderate Thrown Weapons Tricks List.

At 15th level you gain the following class features:

Moderate Tricking: you gain the use of one additional trick on the Easy Thrown Weapons Tricks List or the Moderate Thrown Weapons Tricks List.

Snatch Missiles: Whenever you have one or more hands free you may add +1 to your AC for each free hand. If you gain this bonus you may also, as a reaction, roll an opposed attack roll (1d20+proficiency+dexterity modifier) to a ranged attack aimed at you or someone in melee range of you to snatch the arrow.

At 18th level you gain the following class features:

Exemplar Tricking: You may choose one Exemplar Thrown Weapons Trick which always applies to your attacks with thrown weapons and does not count towards your maximum of 1 thrown weapons trick on an attack with a weapon with the 'Thrown' property


Easy Thrown Weapons Tricks List: Distant Shot: double the ranges on the weapon with the 'Thrown' property

Butt Throw - by changing the timing your throw you can strike with the butt end or handle of your weapon with the 'Thrown' property instead, dealing bludgeoning damage instead of its normal damage type.
Distracting Throw - When your ranged attack with a weapon with the 'Thrown' property, while using this trick hits, the next attack against your target is made with advantage.
Ricochet Throw - When using this trick, you may bounce an attack from an object or an enemy to attack another enemy within range. Treat the attack as if it was made from the point where it bounces.
Brutal Throw - When using this trick you may treat the damage die of your weapon with the 'Thrown' property as one step larger (1d4 becomes 1d6 becomes 1d8 and so on)


Moderate Thrown Weapons Tricks List:

Threatening Toss - As a reaction you may throw a weapon with the 'thrown' property to an enemy who just entered your normal range with said thrown weapon
Parabolic Toss - When you attack a prone target you may make a ranged attack with a weapon with the 'thrown' property, within normal range, as if it were a melee attack. As a result you don't suffer disadvantage on your attackroll due to the target's prone condition.
Tripping Toss - when using this trick, if you hit a ranged attack with a weapon with the 'thrown' property, your target must make a Dexterity or Strength save (corresponding to the ability used while making the attack) vs. DC 8+proficiency+your attack ability (i.e. Strength of Dexterity) modifier.
Distant Toss - double the range of your weapons with the 'Thrown' property when you employ this trick.


Exemplar Thrown Weapons Tricks List:

Palm knives - When making a ranged attack with a weapon with the 'thrown' property you may throw 2 weapons at the same target instead.
Two with one blow - When making a ranged attack with a weapon with the 'thrown' property you may have the attack apply to a secondary target within 10' of your primary target.
Pin Point Accuracy - You ignore anything but full cover when making a ranged attack with a weapon with the 'Thrown' property.




I never trust magicians, they claim to have nothing up their sleeves, but suddenly there is a knife between your ribs or sticking out of your kidney.


At 3rd lvl:

Proficiencies: at lvl 3 when you choose this archetype you become proficient with all weapons with the 'Thrown' property.

Queen's Gambit: At lvl 3 when you select the Invisible blade archetype you gain the ability to use your cunning action to gain advantage on your next attack. When you choose to do so you make a Sleight of Hand check opposed by your target's perception Check. If you succeed you will get advantage on your next attack.

At 9th lvl:

Quick Fingers: At 9th lvl, when failing a Thieves Tools check for disarming a trap, you may make a Sleight of Hands check to stop the trap from activating. Once used you may not use this ability again until you complete a short or long rest.

Ambidexterity: You gain the 'Two Weapon Fighting' Fighting style if you don't already possess it.

At 13th lvl:

You gain the use of the Thrown Weapon Trick called Threathening Toss (see Master Thrower). You may choose to apply Queen's Gambit.

At 17th lvl:

Make It Rain: if you use this ability, all your attacks with weapons with the 'Thrown' property during this turn may affect 2 targets per attack and all attacks may apply sneak attack you may apply sneak attack to one. You may use Queen's Gambit when using this ability. Once you have used this ability you may use it again until you have completed a short or long rest.

[tkuremento]

Rogue monk might work.

Daggers are monk weapons so their damage will scale with monk attack, you get a lot of cool abilities as monk.

If you take thief as the rogue archetype you can use fast hands to use your free object interaction to draw a second weapon.


Are you willing to find a DM who will let you refluff a bit?

Go with the Warlock, throw javelins, RP the javelins as strong magic daggers. Or use a Hand Crossbow and refluff it as dagger throwing. Skip actually throwing daggers and instead RP Eldritch Blast as a thrown magical daggers.

Heck, if you go with EB you get 4 "Daggers". Though you'd need a -lenient- DM to consider it a "Ranged weapon"

I'll say this again, I'm not asking for a new build from the ground up, I'm asking for help with the concept that has 3 EK and 3 Inquisitive. This might mean 4EK and 16 Inquisitive or it might have other multiclassing. It might have certain feats over other feats or prefer a certain race. Those are the things I am trying to figure out.

[Hrugner]

You could grab three levels of oath of treachery paladin for their poison strike. It's poison and once per short rest which is unfortunate, but you'll always have advantage more or less, so that's 20 points on your dagger. Plus some spells and a smite for when you get stuck in melee. After that, rogue is the single best way to support a single ranged attack with a melee weapon per round, so rogue all the way up.

It may help knowing what you want the character to do more generally though. He's clearly not going to be built for combat or support, but the only things we know about him involve combat.

[MrStabby]

I'll say this again, I'm not asking for a new build from the ground up, I'm asking for help with the concept that has 3 EK and 3 Inquisitive. This might mean 4EK and 16 Inquisitive or it might have other multiclassing. It might have certain feats over other feats or prefer a certain race. Those are the things I am trying to figure out.

Is there a specific thing you want these classes for or is it just the name? Rename other classes if it is just the name.

If it is a specific ability then it seems to make sense that you consider other classes that could give you the ability you want.

[tkuremento]

Is there a specific thing you want these classes for or is it just the name? Rename other classes if it is just the name.

If it is a specific ability then it seems to make sense that you consider other classes that could give you the ability you want.

I want the Weapon Bond to recall a dagger and I want Inquisitive to guarantee Sneak Attack at range. That means 6 levels evenly split between Inquisitive Rogue and Eldritch Knight Fighter.

Edit: Beyond that I want to know what else might benefit this, not replace it.


You could grab three levels of oath of treachery paladin for their poison strike. It's poison and once per short rest which is unfortunate, but you'll always have advantage more or less, so that's 20 points on your dagger. Plus some spells and a smite for when you get stuck in melee. After that, rogue is the single best way to support a single ranged attack with a melee weapon per round, so rogue all the way up.

It may help knowing what you want the character to do more generally though. He's clearly not going to be built for combat or support, but the only things we know about him involve combat.

The character is going to have a higher Wis score to be able to pass the check required to get the Sneak Attack in the first place. This means Dex > Wis > Con > Rest

Also I might not have advantage a lot, Inquisitive Rogue lets me bypass that clause for Sneak Attack. Without it I was having trouble finding ways to get SA consistently at range from dagger throwing.

But from the character I just want to be decent at throwing the dagger and stack on whatever I can to said dagger, plus I'd likely take Insight for Expertise for sure.

[Hrugner]

Taking arcane initiate for Hex would help considerably, since you could give your target disadvantage on their deception check to avoid insightful fighting. Other than that, 3f/17r is probably the way to go.

[Talionis]

IMO Rogue 15/Fighter5 or Rogue 14/Fighter 6 depending on how much you need an extra ASI and if you're willing to trade off 1d6 dammage on your sneack attack for it.
This is most likely the logic you should look at. The extra attack is worth levels the ASI at 6EK is an option depending on what else you have going on and if you need more feats.

Also might be worth looking at a Ranger and Ranger spells. You have Dex and Wisdom.

[tkuremento]

This is most likely the logic you should look at. The extra attack is worth levels the ASI at 6EK is an option depending on what else you have going on and if you need more feats.

Also might be worth looking at a Ranger and Ranger spells. You have Dex and Wisdom.

Anything that works well with the build? Most things seem like it'd be more than a dip. Even just Hunter's Mark costs 2 levels into Ranger and then adds back the sneak damage that is lost by taking the dip to begin with. Though damage isn't my only goal, I'm just not familiar with ranger spells in 5e so much. I've never been big into Ranger besides the very start when I was hype for a companion but it seems kinda lame.

[Talionis]

I'd argue for Ranger 4. It gives you the ASI and two full caster levels. You should come out slightly ahead of four levels of sneak attack. So Elderitch Knight 3, Ranger 6, Rogue 11. Get extra attack from Ranger because it's a better caster, but you can reverse Elderitch Knight to 6 and Ranger 3 if an extra ASI is more important to you.

Ranger 3 gives you Colossus Slayer which is another 1d8 to hurt creatures and a second fighting style I think you want Two Weapon Fighting and Archery.

Feats

Duel Weilder. Plus one AC and draw two weapons when you draw

Crossbow Throw into melee. This may not be important if you are okay just stabbing.

Sharpshooter. Very good with Archery fighting style.

Sentinel because sneak attack.

I list the interesting Ranger spells but I think Hail of Thorns and Hunters Mark are the spells you want, but if you see use for the higher level spells consider Lore or College of Blades Bard to pick those higher level Ranger spells up with Magical Secret.

Spells
Level One
Hail of Thorns adds 1d10 in five foot radius, scales with higher level spells slots
Hunters Mark 1d6
Ensnaring a Strike 1d6 per turn for a minute scalable by spell slot. Strength save
Level Two
Cordon of Arrows. Protects an area by firing arrows

Level Three
Conjure Barrage 3d8 cone
Lightning Arrow replacing damage for 4d8 for one minute

Level Five
Conjure Volley 40ft radius 8d8
Swift Quiver two more attacks as a bonus. But just be non magical weapon.

[Naanomi]

Mystic (nomad)s from the most recent UA have an ability specifically referencing thrown weapons

[tkuremento]

Crossbow Throw into melee. This may not be important if you are okay just stabbing.
The Close Quarters Shooter fighting style has that aspect covered already.



Sharpshooter. Very good with Archery fighting style.

Level Two
Cordon of Arrows. Protects an area by firing arrows

Level Five
Swift Quiver two more attacks as a bonus. But just be non magical weapon.

I have no plans on using anything with ammunition and as such cannot use these few. I thank you for the other suggestions though. I was actually thinking maybe instead of going Ranger I could get the Ritual Caster feat. I'm not sure which class is the most beneficial. Wizard has a lot of choice but Ranger and Druid have a lot of unique ones as well.

[tkuremento]

Mystic (nomad)s from the most recent UA have an ability specifically referencing thrown weapons

I noticed that. There is probably a way to do this build now without EK3. :P

[tkuremento]

So yea, another option would be to go Soul Knife Mystic and get the Mastery of Wood and Earth discipline for Animate Weapon instead of taking levels in EK. Technically it could just be 1 level but would only be able to throw and recall the dagger four times a long rest, more levels means more psi points which means more throws. Half of the Nomad Arrow discipline doesn't work though because it specifies ranged weapon and ranged weapon attacks. I'd probably not go as heavy into Wisdom because of this so I am not dumping Int. I can still take Insight with Expertise to make up for it. Basically I'd be doing Dex = Int > Con > Rest, because with Animate Weapon it uses the Int. For races I think the following could be beneficial in any way: High Elf, Eladrin Elf, Stout Halfling, Rock Gnome, Forest Gnome, Variant Human, Goblin, or Hobgoblin. However with Hobgoblin I'd be wasting the Martial Training and with Elves I'd be wasting Weapon Training.

[Talionis]

The Close Quarters Shooter fighting style has that aspect covered already.



I have no plans on using anything with ammunition and as such cannot use these few. I thank you for the other suggestions though. I was actually thinking maybe instead of going Ranger I could get the Ritual Caster feat. I'm not sure which class is the most beneficial. Wizard has a lot of choice but Ranger and Druid have a lot of unique ones as well.
I mentioned ammunition because I could see a bandolier of knives being allowed like ammunition I don't see how that would be over powered. This version isn't too clear on definition of ranged weapon.

I don't suggest going deep on Ranger or EK, but I think Hail of Thorns is pretty strong. It lasts for a minute and it can be up cast. Up cast can be a big deal since you may have spell slots where you don't know a spell of the level. It's small AoE damage which the build has little of. It's a pretty decent concentration spell if damage or AoE are helpful, especially since you may not have better EK spells and often you'll have a round where you can cast a buff before combat. I think it's better than Hunters Mark depending on DM interpretation.

[tkuremento]

I mentioned ammunition because I could see a bandolier of knives being allowed like ammunition I don't see how that would be over powered. This version isn't too clear on definition of ranged weapon.

I don't suggest going deep on Ranger or EK, but I think Hail of Thorns is pretty strong. It lasts for a minute and it can be up cast. Up cast can be a big deal since you may have spell slots where you don't know a spell of the level. It's small AoE damage which the build has little of. It's a pretty decent concentration spell if damage or AoE are helpful, especially since you may not have better EK spells and often you'll have a round where you can cast a buff before combat. I think it's better than Hunters Mark depending on DM interpretation.

If it says "ranged weapon attack" then it works with a dagger. If it says "ranged weapon" without the word attack or "an attack with a ranged weapon" then it doesn't count.

[Talionis]

If it says "ranged weapon attack" then it works with a dagger. If it says "ranged weapon" without the word attack or "an attack with a ranged weapon" then it doesn't count.
I'm sure that's RAW, but man am I disappointed at how little support 5E has for thrown weapons.

[Theodoxus]

If it says "ranged weapon attack" then it works with a dagger. If it says "ranged weapon" without the word attack or "an attack with a ranged weapon" then it doesn't count.

Hail of Thorns specifies Ranged Weapon Attack - so you'd be ok.

I wonder if the soul knife is meant RAI to work with Animate Weapon from MofW&E... Since there's no description on throwing or dropping them, and it requires a bonus action to dismiss them - it would seem that they would persist if released... though one could conjecture that they're projecting from your fist akin to Wolverine's claws... and as such, couldn't be detached... I guess without specific clarification, that's a DM ruling.

[tkuremento]

Hail of Thorns specifies Ranged Weapon Attack - so you'd be ok.

I wonder if the soul knife is meant RAI to work with Animate Weapon from MofW&E... Since there's no description on throwing or dropping them, and it requires a bonus action to dismiss them - it would seem that they would persist if released... though one could conjecture that they're projecting from your fist akin to Wolverine's claws... and as such, couldn't be detached... I guess without specific clarification, that's a DM ruling.

Well if they couldn't be used then I could just straight up go a different one like Nomad and use daggers again. Sure I could use shortswords if I really wanted but :P idk
Edit: For clarification, I'd still be getting a lot of levels in Rogue, just whatever I need from Mystic to do it if I went the Mystic route. This means I'd still get the shortsword proficiency from Rogue :P