high elf cantrip, and being a caster?

[Lance Tankmen]

Alright so Two of my PC's are high elves which gives them both a free wizard cantrip, ones a sorcerer and the other is a cleric. It States use INT for the cantrip and I'm having trouble seeing if it states otherwise, and ill be honest with you i forgot which one the sorcerer picked so i cant make her use INT nor want to really, So my true question is , is it in any form unfair or broken or what ever to let the cleric use CHA for Ray of frost , or is that the right way to begin with?

[Rysto]

Other than maybe Green-Flame Blade, I don't think it would break the game to allow a character to use CHA or WIS to cast the cantrip instead.

[mgshamster]

It should be on your player to be honest enough to remember which cantrip used INT and use it appropriately.

You're military, so you're like playing with other soldiers, right? Isn't Integrity part of the soldiers code?

[JNAProductions]

It's not broken, but it's not the rules.

The one cantrip you get from being a High Elf uses Int, the rest of your casting uses whatever your class is based on (Wis for Clerics, Cha for Sorcerers in this case).

But really, letting them use it with their casting stat isn't going to break the game.

[gfishfunk]

If they are both spell casters, they should not need another offensive spell. They should take utility cantrips. It should immediately solve the problem.

Which would I rather have - a sometimes useful offensive cantrips on top of my other offensive cantrips, or Mage Hand? Light? Message? Mending?

[Lance Tankmen]

It should be on your player to be honest enough to remember which cantrip used INT and use it appropriately.

You're military, so you're like playing with other soldiers, right? Isn't Integrity part of the soldiers code?

good memory haha, but no not a soldier. Honestly the PC that's a sorcerer is going through something right now id doubt she'd remember. But its easy to remember the clerics but feels unfair to not hold the sorcerer to the same . Going by the comments though id say im good to let em use it.

[Addaran]

While it's a buff, it probably won't matter much in the end, especially if the players are just making normal characters, not super optimized ones. So you could just let them both use their class casting stat instead.

Other easy way, check if the sorcerer got any utility cantrip that doesn't use the stat ( mage hand, light, prestigitation, etc). Sorcerers start with 4 cantrips, so their's probably at least one of the five that don't need the stat. Then just say it's that one that is the elven one.


If they are both spell casters, they should not need another offensive spell. They should take utility cantrips. It should immediately solve the problem.

Which would I rather have - a sometimes useful offensive cantrips on top of my other offensive cantrips, or Mage Hand? Light? Message? Mending?

While true for the sorcerer, the cleric could want an attack cantrip. Sacred Flame can be extremely frustrating because you don't do anything and the enemy can keep succeeding with lucky rolls.

[Honest Tiefling]

Make them a deal. Cleric wants WIS on their cantrip? Okay, but it has to be god appropriate or appropriate for their backstory. Sets a precedence that any freebies handed out will aid RP, which I assume your group is doing. If it is a combat only game, then offer a minor freebie to everyone else to compensate. It's fine to fudge rules as long as everyone agrees!

If you do not wish to hand out freebies, at least get the group to agree to this...But they might expect it for future characters. Consider dropping in some High Elf based plot points if there is character death, and people seem inclined to make more High Elves to replace fallen characters.

For the sorcerer, it sounds like she is having a rough time, so I'd let it pass, but with the idea that it might be unique to her. Consider tying it to her backstory.

[Sigreid]

Unless all of her cantrips are attack or save cantrips, just assume that one of the others is her high elf cantrip.

[gfishfunk]

While true for the sorcerer, the cleric could want an attack cantrip. Sacred Flame can be extremely frustrating because you don't do anything and the enemy can keep succeeding with lucky rolls.

That's true with any Save based cantrip, and true with any attack cantrip - bad attack rolls do the same thing.

Still, not seeing the problem with having them take int based cantrips, and go for utility if they are worried they won't be effective.

[Addaran]

That's true with any Save based cantrip, and true with any attack cantrip - bad attack rolls do the same thing.


Yeah, for any save based cantrips. Attack roll cantrips are less a problem. They can benefit from advantage and it's easier to notice if they are effective/you have bad rolls. When you miss 20+ AC, you'll know it's hard to hit the target, if you roll a 3 on the dice, you'll know it's because of the crappy roll. When the monster makes the save, you don't know if it's because he rolled a 15+ or if he have +10 in that save.

On the other hand, i love save cantrips while i'm DM. It's still in the players' hand and i get to see all the rolls.

[Lance Tankmen]

Make them a deal. Cleric wants WIS on their cantrip? Okay, but it has to be god appropriate or appropriate for their backstory. Sets a precedence that any freebies handed out will aid RP, which I assume your group is doing. If it is a combat only game, then offer a minor freebie to everyone else to compensate. It's fine to fudge rules as long as everyone agrees!

If you do not wish to hand out freebies, at least get the group to agree to this...But they might expect it for future characters. Consider dropping in some High Elf based plot points if there is character death, and people seem inclined to make more High Elves to replace fallen characters.

For the sorcerer, it sounds like she is having a rough time, so I'd let it pass, but with the idea that it might be unique to her. Consider tying it to her backstory.

My bad since i didnt state it, these are all brand new never D&D'ed before players, the cleric didnt get sacred flame(level1 so he can later) and its only +1 off but long term i figure it may matter if he buffs WIS. he didnt ask for it i'm just making it easier on the new guys since it can be demanding.

[Honest Tiefling]

My bad since i didnt state it, these are all brand new never D&D'ed before players, the cleric didnt get sacred flame(level1 so he can later) and its only +1 off but long term i figure it may matter if he buffs WIS. he didnt ask for it i'm just making it easier on the new guys since it can be demanding.

If they're new, I'd...Just toss some freebies at the others so no one feels like they aren't getting buffed. Even something as minor as a language for backstory reasons, or a cool weapon.

[Lance Tankmen]

If they're new, I'd...Just toss some freebies at the others so no one feels like they aren't getting buffed. Even something as minor as a language for backstory reasons, or a cool weapon.

i should should state that he doesn't even know he cant use WIS, im still walking em through the combat and stuff. Day 2 of playing like 2hrs because one of them cant make it

[NNescio]

Alright so Two of my PC's are high elves which gives them both a free wizard cantrip, ones a sorcerer and the other is a cleric. It States use INT for the cantrip and I'm having trouble seeing if it states otherwise, and ill be honest with you i forgot which one the sorcerer picked so i cant make her use INT nor want to really, So my true question is , is it in any form unfair or broken or what ever to let the cleric use CHA for Ray of frost , or is that the right way to begin with?

Every High Elf should take Minor Illusion. Best cantrip in the game bar none.

Need a distraction? Minor Illusion! Better than Prestidigitation/Thaurmaturgy too, for this purpose!

Need something to hide inside? Minor Illusion!

Need to break LoS? Like, say, against enemy Counterspells? Minor Illusion! Works even if they know you're there!

Need advantage on your attack roll next round? Or your ally's? Minor Illusion! True Strike is for chumps. Heck, you even get to keep your advantage sometimes, if your attack doesn't physical interact with the illusion (c.f. Chill Touch)!

Want disadvantage against one enemy attack roll? Minor Illusion!

Need to conceal or set up traps? Minor Illusion!

Need to tell your party or an NPC what you just saw? Minor Illusion!

Need to help your party illusionist (Actual Illusionist, or a Warlock, Bard, etc) make their Silent Images seem more real? Now with Minor Illusion,anyone can be a sound projectionist too!

Need to spruce up a conversation? Intimidate an enemy, or punctuate your statements with images? A picture is worth a thousand words, as they say, and this spell provides RP opportunities par excellence! Say hello to MINOR ILLUSION!


Yeah, for any save based cantrips. Attack roll cantrips are less a problem. They can benefit from advantage and it's easier to notice if they are effective/you have bad rolls. When you miss 20+ AC, you'll know it's hard to hit the target, if you roll a 3 on the dice, you'll know it's because of the crappy roll. When the monster makes the save, you don't know if it's because he rolled a 15+ or if he have +10 in that save..

Minor Illusion being a notable exception (even with a Save DC of 9), as it requires enemy creatures to waste an action to even get to go against your Save DC (only creatures who suspect an illusion would attempt this, and they're better off just shooting or moving through it instead to trigger the physical interaction clause). It's also extremely useful for out-of-combat purposes (both utility and as combat prep), and also offers a lot of RP opportunities.

[Vaz]

You're military, so you're like playing with other soldiers, right? Isn't Integrity part of the soldiers code?

Only when we get caught. And not even then if we can get away with it.