Civil War travel times

[Sapphire Guard]

In Cap 3

How does Zemo beat the others to Siberia? He has a small head start while they assemble the Avengers, but he doesn't have a private jet as far as we know, and Siberia is really, really huge. How could he get there first? He'd need to be very lucky to get a charter flight anywhere close to the specific remote Soviet base he needs, and he didn't know where it was beforehand so it couldn't be planned out.

[Darth Ultron]

It is just a classic ''Movie Time Makes No Sense''.

Assuming Zemo had a plane to fly to ''someplace remote in Siberia'' would have taken hours...maybe more if he needed to stop and refuel and such.

Then Cap and Bucky fly off in a quinjet to ''somewhere'' too.....

THEN Tony does some stuff (at least a couple hours worth?) and THEN flies all the way out to the raft and talks to the prisoners and THEN zips away to ''somewhere in Siberia''....

And Cap, Bucky and Iron Man all get there at the same time almost?!?

It's right up there with Han Solo and them are in the Cloud City for a day maybe....while Luke trains for..well...it would seem days if not weeks...in the Empire Strikes Back.

[Mando Knight]

It's right up there with Han Solo and them are in the Cloud City for a day maybe....while Luke trains for..well...it would seem days if not weeks...in the Empire Strikes Back.

That one has an explanation in the movie: the Falcon can't fly at full "outrun the Empire" speed, so it spends an unidentified amount of time limping to Bespin.

[Darth Ultron]

That one has an explanation in the movie: the Falcon can't fly at full "outrun the Empire" speed, so it spends an unidentified amount of time limping to Bespin.

Except the movie does not say that. And it really only would have took like 15 seconds for, say C-3PO, to say ''I'm glad we made it here after 13 yarns of space travel'' or something like that. Or Han saying to Lando ''we had to take the long way here around the Mutara Nebula, it took forever"

[Gandariel]

In Cap 3

How does Zemo beat the others to Siberia? He has a small head start while they assemble the Avengers, but he doesn't have a private jet as far as we know, and Siberia is really, really huge. How could he get there first? He'd need to be very lucky to get a charter flight anywhere close to the specific remote Soviet base he needs, and he didn't know where it was beforehand so it couldn't be planned out.



Don't both "teams" take 36 hours to gather recruits before their airport showdown?

Zemo had 36 hours of advantage IIRC.

[Mando Knight]

Except the movie does not say that. And it really only would have took like 15 seconds for, say C-3PO, to say ''I'm glad we made it here after 13 yarns of space travel'' or something like that. Or Han saying to Lando ''we had to take the long way here around the Mutara Nebula, it took forever"

It's made abundantly clear when the entire reason for the asteroid chase sequence and the trip to Bespin is because the Falcon can't outrun the Imperial fleet with a broken Hyperdrive. Empire is an action-adventure movie. Explicitly defining time periods with throwaway lines to cover "plot holes" is neither needed for nor welcome to the flow of the film when the passage of time is already implied.

[Sapphire Guard]

Don't both "teams" take 36 hours to gather recruits before their airport showdown?

Zemo had 36 hours of advantage IIRC.

36 hours is the absolute upper limit Tony has to have the others brought in by. Unless he's cutting it close, it's probably a good deal less than that.

Stark has time to get to New York and back (which he can probably do much faster than anyone else, and Ant-Man has to have time to get to Europe, assuming he was back in the states at the time).

Even if we give him the full 36 hours, that is not a lot of time to get clear of the UN building, find transport to Siberia that won't be questioned by any of the nations he has to cross or get shot down by the air force, and get there enough ahead of them to get things set up. Siberia is big.

[Benthesquid]

36 hours is the absolute upper limit Tony has to have the others brought in by. Unless he's cutting it close, it's probably a good deal less than that.

Stark has time to get to New York and back (which he can probably do much faster than anyone else, and Ant-Man has to have time to get to Europe, assuming he was back in the states at the time).

Even if we give him the full 36 hours, that is not a lot of time to get clear of the UN building, find transport to Siberia that won't be questioned by any of the nations he has to cross or get shot down by the air force, and get there enough ahead of them to get things set up. Siberia is big.

Well, I don't think finding transport is going to be a huge time investment. He knew he was planning to go to where the super-soldiers were kept, and presumably wasn't counting on that being right near where he needed to interrogate Bucky. Odds are decent that he already had some sort of discreet transportation lined up.

[An Enemy Spy]

In fiction it's generally a good idea to leave out scenes that don't really matter to the story, especially when that means you now don't have to spend time and money on actors, lighting, cameras, locations/sets, editing, catering, etc...

Sure, you could leave no doubt as to how Zemo got there, but it's generally better to just let the audience fill in the blanks and get to the point of the movie, which is an idealogical and emotional conflict between the heroes and not Zemo's travelogue.

[Kitten Champion]

In fiction it's generally a good idea to leave out scenes that don't really matter to the story, especially when that means you now don't have to spend time and money on actors, lighting, cameras, locations/sets, editing, catering, etc...

Sure, you could leave no doubt as to how Zemo got there, but it's generally better to just let the audience fill in the blanks and get to the point of the movie, which is an idealogical and emotional conflict between the heroes and not Zemo's travelogue.

That, and it would've ruined the suspense with regards to the Hydra super-soldiers in cryo-stasis that was the basis of the whole ticking-clock nature of the conflict. Nitpicking practical difficulties with Zemo's plan is relatively easy, but overall the movie benefits more from him remaining enigmatic and hinting at his agenda through a limited lens than smoothing those over.

[Sapphire Guard]

Well, I don't think finding transport is going to be a huge time investment. He knew he was planning to go to where the super-soldiers were kept, and presumably wasn't counting on that being right near where he needed to interrogate Bucky. Odds are decent that he already had some sort of discreet transportation lined up.

Did he know that beforehand or did he get it from Bucky?


In fiction it's generally a good idea to leave out scenes that don't really matter to the story, especially when that means you now don't have to spend time and money on actors, lighting, cameras, locations/sets, editing, catering, etc...

Sure, you could leave no doubt as to how Zemo got there, but it's generally better to just let the audience fill in the blanks and get to the point of the movie, which is an idealogical and emotional conflict between the heroes and not Zemo's travelogue.]

Normally yes, but if a key part of the plot is a race against time, and one side is capable of much faster travel, it is legitimate to question how the other side beat them to their destination, when they don't have any of the usual connections or resources that might typically answer the question.

[Benthesquid]

Did he know that beforehand or did he get it from Bucky?


Where it was specifically? I would have to rewatch the movie, but I think no. That he was going to want to go to a new location? Probably. It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but the basic theory was he targeted Bucky to drive an initial wedge between Cap and Iron Man, and then was planning to permanently turn them against each other with the revelation that Bucky killed Tony's parents. Killing the other Winter Soldiers was more or less an afterthought, but didn't he get the footage of Bucky killing Howard and Maria at the decommissioned base? Or am I just remembering wrong?

[Rogar Demonblud]

The movie doesn't say exactly when Zemo figured things out, but the fact that Bucky has Soviet markings on his arm does say he'll be going to Russia. As for how he got there, well, there are currently multiple flights per day heading to Central Asia from Europe. Depending on exactly where the former Hydra base is, there could be a transit hub nearby.

Westerners really have no idea how the region is developing.

[Aedilred]

Yeah, Siberia is a big place, but nor is it a completely featureless uninhabited wasteland, and the base isn't necessarily as far away as possible from any population or transport centre. Given its scale, one would assume there are at least some transport links.

Google reveals flights from Vienna to Krasnoyarsk that are under ten hours including connections. From there it is speculative how one would get to the base, but depending on precisely where in Siberia the base is, with sufficient forward planning and/or financial outlay, and immunity to jet lag, Zemo could have had time to get to the base, kill the Winter Soldiers and watch all the previous MCU films before Tony and Cap showed up.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Heck, just sleep on the plane. Solves most jet lag issues, in my experience.

[Sapphire Guard]

didn't he get the footage of Bucky killing Howard and Maria at the decommissioned base?


Yes, but he couldn't have known that that random security camera footage existed until after he spoke to Bucky. Unless that was in the book, but why would it be?





Are the nearest airports going to be running after two major terrorist attacks? All of Europe isn't going to shut down, but Berlin and Vienna probably would. At least one airport was cleared for the fight scene. Zemo could just go to one further away, but that's going to cost him some time.

Obviously Siberia isn't an empty wasteland, but it is huge and relatively lightly populated. I'd expect the base to be at least a bit remote to stay secret as long as it did.

This travelling is doable, but not easy, and I'm not sure how much planning he could have been able to do in advance.

[Aedilred]

I think we're just trying to make the point that it's entirely plausible he could have done it in the indicated time. If you're prepared to suspend disbelief to the usual extent for a superhero movie, that a well-organised villain made a difficult but possible journey relatively quickly doesn't seem like a stretch at all.

If looking for implausibility I think it's more likely to be found in the speed of the heroes' reaction. From the location and capture of Bucky to his escape and recapture to the recruitment of Spiderman and Ant-Man and then the incarcerations and Tony stopping by for a visit before taking off to the base, the "good guys" get a ridiculous amount accomplished in a very small time window. All Zemo has to do is get from A to B, once. He doesn't have any superpowers, sure, but he does have the advantage of knowing what he's doing in advance.