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Douglas
2007-07-25, 06:54 PM
I've seen a few threads here from time to time discussing just how poorly it is possible to make a character. Would anyone with an idea for that like to prove just how bad it is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51814)? I'm trying to ban most of the obvious ways to dump power, so it might actually be interesting.

The Vorpal Tribble
2007-07-25, 06:57 PM
Hrmmm, wonder if I should attempt the build that basically turns you into a harmless sandwich without stats.

Douglas
2007-07-25, 06:59 PM
I'd categorize that under "permanent negative magical effects", which is banned. Yes, I know the end result is nonmagical. It's still a permanent magically achieved negative effect.

Plus, I seem to recall some arguments that the sandwich psion retains its mind and manifesting ability.

JackMage666
2007-07-25, 07:10 PM
I'll take the first opportunity to say...

Goblin Samurai 20

Dairun Cates
2007-07-25, 07:23 PM
Multi-classing into every class imaginable starting with the most similar classes and making sure to exit at the worst levels possible so as to minimize abilities gained. Put most stats in dex and keep an abysmally low con, int, and probably str to minimize the impact of most class abilities. Keep others only at sub-par avoid getting higher than a 12. Pick only the most specific and useless spells. Play a half-orc to maximize loss of ability points. Put skills into generally useless skills like intimidate and always make them cross-class. Waste money on magic items like Escape Artist Full-Plate. Wield a weapon you don't have the proficiency for.. two of them. Start feat trees that suck at first but get better later and only take one feat in them (can you say toughness and endurance?). All in all, that should do it. You could probably do worse, and if you give me an actual level and money, I could probably build one.

SurlySeraph
2007-07-25, 07:35 PM
^ Uh... IMHO, Dexterity is the most useful stat, but maxing Dex and wearing full plate is a very good idea. Maybe you could wear the Mountain Plate or whatever it's called from Races of Stone, which doesn't allow ANY dexterity bonus. This build definitely calls for Monkey Grip - maybe dual-wield monkey-gripped Large-sized clubs to minimize attack bonus and power. Alternately, you could go with Large-sized rapiers and take Weapon Finesse, which would be wasted because the armor would kill your Dexterity. However, rapiers are more effective weapons than clubs, so I'm not sure which would be worse.

JackMage666
2007-07-25, 07:39 PM
What about a Goblin Druid 20, who switches to CN at 20th level? Dual weilds 2 nonmagical Medium-sized Sai's (he's not proficient with), without two-weapon fighting. Wears nonmagical Splint Mail, and a nonmagical Buckler on each arm. Spends all his money on Gloves of Dexterity and Potions of Cat's Grace.
All feats are Metamagic/Item creation feats.
If NPC levels are allowed, make it a Goblin Commoner 20.

SilverClawShift
2007-07-25, 07:48 PM
Multi-classing into every class imaginable

That has one single advantage.

+2 Saving throws in at least one save every level. Your saves would ROCK.

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-07-25, 07:55 PM
Working on an elf wizard that'll get mopped all over the floor by the same housecat that mopped the floor with him at ECL 1.

SadisticFishing
2007-07-25, 07:56 PM
That has one single advantage.

+2 Saving throws in at least one save every level. Your saves would ROCK.

Monk 2/Favored Soul 2/Tattood Monk 2/Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 2/Drunken Master 2/Dragon Descendant 2/Apostle of Peace 2/Sacred Fist 2/Shadow Sun Ninja 2/Disciple of the Word 2.

Yay! +30 to all base saves!

Saint George
2007-07-25, 08:00 PM
http://goblinscomic.com/d/20050902.html

It has already been done by Senor Vorpal Kickass'o.

martyboy74
2007-07-25, 08:12 PM
http://goblinscomic.com/d/20050902.html

It has already been done by Senor Vorpal Kickass'o.

Psst! They mean RAW builds!

Saint George
2007-07-25, 08:13 PM
Psst. It was a joke.

Dairun Cates
2007-07-25, 08:16 PM
That has one single advantage.

+2 Saving throws in at least one save every level. Your saves would ROCK.

True enough. You could probably apply some flaws. I was more going around a character having an abysmal AC for level, a huge armor check penalty, no better than level 1 casting, and a conglomerate of class abilities that don't work together. Theorhetically, they'd deal almost no damage, do nothing to higher level opponents, and wouldn't be able to take a hit. Unfortunately, the saves were the only thing I couldn't get down too low, but who cares if you can save against mind control on all but a 1 if the vampire kills you in 2 rounds without it? Oh, and we definitely would not be giving this build evasion.

Demented
2007-07-25, 08:57 PM
Working on an elf wizard that'll get mopped all over the floor by the same housecat that mopped the floor with him at ECL 1.

My level 6 Chain Devil Druid (reformed to True Neutral, of course) is going to wildshape into a common housecat and kill your elf wizard. :smallamused:

Edit: Scratch that, can't do housecats. However, an Eagle would work.
Or I could settle for a level 16 Dretch Druid....

Dausuul
2007-07-25, 09:01 PM
Here's my build. I'm assuming 20th level, 32 point buy and all must be used, and no NPC classes.

Venerable Half-Orc Wizard 20
Str 5 (originally 10)
Dex 3 (originally 8)
Con 5 (originally 10)
Int 9 (originally 6)
Wis 31 (originally 18)
Cha 24 (originally 16)

Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +22
BAB +10/+5
Hp 20, AC 6
Skills: Profession (Dirt Farmer) +28
Feats: Scribe Scroll, Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Profession [Dirt Farmer]), Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Light Armor Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Weapon Finesse
Equipment: 2,500 gp, tome of leadership and influence +5 (used), tome of understanding +5 (used), manual of bodily health +1 (used), manual of quickness of action +1 (used), manual of gainful exercise +1 (used), two Small-sized +1 returning seeking keen ki focus ghost touch distance plant-bane ooze-bane reptilian humanoid-bane shuriken. (He needs two of them since he can attack twice a round and they don't return until the start of his next turn.)

This fellow can do two things... he can make Will saves, and he can farm dirt. That's pretty much it.

Kizara
2007-07-25, 09:15 PM
Here's my build. I'm assuming 20th level, 32 point buy and all must be used, and no NPC classes.

Venerable Half-Orc Wizard 20
Str 4 (originally 10)
Dex 2 (originally 8)
Con 4 (originally 10)
Int 9 (originally 6)
Wis 26 (originally 18)
Cha 19 (originally 16)

Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +20
BAB +10
Hp 20, AC 6
Skills: Profession (Dirt Farmer) +28
Feats: Scribe Scroll, Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Profession [Dirt Farmer]), Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Light Armor Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Weapon Finesse
Equipment: 50 Small-sized shuriken (+0 to hit, damage 1d1-3), and 759,950 gp worth of "feather token: anchor."

This fellow can do three things... he can make Will saves, he can farm dirt, and he can moor a whole pile of ships. That's pretty much it.

I would have to say that you must at least spend your money on reasonable items, if not one's that would actually be useful. For one thing, there's no need for 20k feather tokens... thats like saying he owns 1000 tons of iron.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-07-25, 09:29 PM
Okay, it's possible to make an intentionally bad build pretty easily just by purposefully gimping yourself, but how about another element to the challenge.

Your build has to use the Elite Array and be arranged in a manner that makes sense for your class; and your character has to have a concept that is "supposed" to work.

My idea:
A Kobold Monk-Ranger/Sor-Wiz Ultimate Magus gish.

He's supposed to be able to move quickly and utilize ranged weapons while augmenting it with spells.

Dausuul
2007-07-25, 09:32 PM
I would have to say that you must at least spend your money on reasonable items, if not one's that would actually be useful. For one thing, there's no need for 20k feather tokens... thats like saying he owns 1000 tons of iron.

Hmm, just read the rules... okay, fixed. Thank God for magic weapons and one-point stat tomes.

The Glyphstone
2007-07-25, 09:36 PM
Like I mentioned in the Recruiting thread, a Grey Elf..uh...Samurai 20 who was Venerable would have Strength 0 and Constitution 0, thus dead before they started fighting...maybe make a rule that they must be able to make some effort at fighting?

Demented
2007-07-25, 09:43 PM
A character's physical stats cannot be reduced below 1 due to aging. Unless that's a Samurai thing.

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-25, 09:46 PM
I'd go goliath wizard, pump dex, wear mountain plate, get power attack, and get the feat that let's me reroll. That way, I can avoid criticals and always miss while swinging a weapon I'n not proficient in, and have 100% ASF.

Caxton
2007-07-25, 09:50 PM
How about a 12 level sorcerer 8th level paladin who fell and became TN and took the mage slayer, pierce magical protection, and pierce magical concealment feats? This would give him a caster level of 0, making him an 8th level fighter without bonus feats but with 12d4 extra hp. woop.

Douglas
2007-07-25, 10:09 PM
Normally those feats would actually be pretty useful, but I doubt anyone's going to have significant spellcasting ability to use them against. Go right ahead.

SilverClawShift
2007-07-25, 11:06 PM
I was more going around a character having an abysmal AC for level, a huge armor check penalty, no better than level 1 casting, and a conglomerate of class abilities that don't work together.

Actually, I brought it up because my group played a game where we were intentionally underpowered to various levels. My character was a 'no more than 1 level in any class' build, with alignment restrictions ignored.

It was actually less horrible than you'd think. Now mind you, I wasn't a powerhouse in any sense of the word, I was definately sub-par compared to even casual builds. But I wasn't unplayable. In low levels, my BAB was decent (2/3ish), my saves were incredible like I said, and having a whole host of low level abilities can be interesting in a pinch. Never earth-shattered stuff, but it can still be valuable. A level of wizard gets you cantrips and first level spell access, with all the little tricks and cunning things you can do with them (Mage Hand, Silent Image, Erase, Enlarge Person...). A level of rogue gets you 1d6 sneak attack, which is an edge when you might not expect having one. A level of soulknife gets you a mindblade, which if nothing else means you always have a real weapon, even if you wake up naked in a locked cell. Cleric? Emergency "Stop him from bleeding to death" healing and more spell slots. Fighter bonus feat and proficiencies, Barbarian fast movement. Your skills are all across the board and you've got plenty of places to put them. Ect, ect, ect.

Sure, you're not twinked out, but if you play the character for what it is (5th wheel), you'll be very memorable, bizarrely versatile, and surprisingly useful.

Dairun Cates
2007-07-25, 11:37 PM
Oh, I realize it can be very interesting to play. I've played some really weird cross-classes before. While not powerful, they were interesting and fun to play.

Still, I was mostly assuming cutting off at the 2nd or 3rd level when the class gains almost nothing that level, or at least nothing too useful. I think multi-classing at the wrong times can make an extremely underpowered character if done "right". There's a few combinations of low-level classes that don't go well together. You can make some interesting characters through one level combinations, but I also think there's some really horrible possibilities with it as well.

FoxHush
2007-07-25, 11:55 PM
Black gaurd with holy armor that lowers you a lvl and he's daul welding without feats daggers with the "holy" enchant for -2 levels. Better yet make him a evil wizard in holy fullplate.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-26, 04:41 AM
+10 LA Half Celestial, Half Dragon, Svirfneblin (FRCS starting PC race (Worse could be found in other source books but this is pretty close to core as a campaign source book using an Underdark race adventuring above ground) without the optional LA buydown.

Starting out as a Battle Sorcerer - S 12 Dex - 14 Con - 13 Int - 8 Wis - 12 Char - 11 after Svirfneblin racials ability modifiers without half templates 11 Hit Points a total of 4 skill points in class skills like Arcana - 1, Concentration -1, Craft -1 and Spellcraft - 1.

Finishing up as a Battle Sorcerer - 4, Wilder -4, Cerebrancer - 1, Samauri - 1 with St - 15 Dex - 14 Con - 14 Int - 8 Wis - 12 and Char - 12 for a ECL 20 character with +7/+2 BAB before adding the half templates:

Celestial Armor 22,400 GP for walking around town.

+10 Mithril Breast Plate 100,000 GP

+10 Mithril Buckler 100,000 GP

Weapons: +1 Vorpal Katanna 72,000 GP

+2 Wakizashi Two Wishes 102,660 GP (One of the best uses would probably be for "I Wish I didn't S..." for a super charged magical psychic reformation.

+6 Cloak of Charisma 36,000 GP

Half Charged Helm of Brillance 63,000 GP

Stone of Good Luck 20,000 GP

+ 6 Amulet of Health 36,000 GP

+ 3 Ring 18,000 GP

Ring of Theurgy 20,000 GP

Ioun Stones:

Pink 8,000 GP,
Dusty Rose 5,000 GP
Pink and Green 8,000 GP
Clear 4,000 GP
Scarlet and Blue 8,000 GP
Vibrant Purple 36,000 GP
Pearly White 20,000 GP
Lavender Green 40,000 GP

Heward's Handy Haversack 2,000 GP

Potions and Scrolls to taste 38,000 GP

Other Temporary items to taste 38,000 GP

2,000 GP in Gems and Gold Pieces.

Still tweaking.

Umarth
2007-07-26, 07:21 AM
Seems to me like a sorc/wiz build with a 9 or lower int/cha would win this at that point they are even worse than a commoner. Couple it with a low con and your a real winner/loser

Lowest HD in the game
Lowest BAB in the game
1 good save
Metamagic feats for all the spells you can't cast

Only bad side to this is you could still use wands and rods and such. Perhaps combine this idea with the thread a while back on banning the largest number of schools of magic possible.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-26, 10:21 AM
Tanarukk Races of Faerun, 5 Racial HD +3 LA Orc Outsider with levels in UA Spellcaster variant - 1, PRC Spell Fire Channeler-10, Merchant Prince -1 (Favored Class is Barbarian) for ECL 20.

Medium sized. Land speed 20. Darkvision - 60'. Fire Resistance - 10, Spell Resistance - 14 + 12 (Class levels) = SR 26. +4 Natural Armor. Proficient with all martial weapons. 5 Ousider Hit Dice. Natural Attack Bite 1D6. Control Flames within 10' diminish or flare 1/Day. Orc Blood. Automatic languages Orc, Abyssal and Regional.

Base BAB +5, +0, +5, +0 = +10/+5 BAB

Using 32 point buy and averaging ability scores:

Base St - 14, Dex - 14, Con - 14, Int - 14, Wis - 14 & Char - 15

After Racial:

St - 18, Dex - 16, Con - 14 (18 for HD/Levels), Int - 14, Wis 12 & Char - 11

5D8 + 11D4 + 1D6 + 34 = 91 Hit Points.

General Feats HD/Level: 1 Spell Fire Wielder, 3 Endurance, 6 Business Savvy, 9 Favored in Guild, 12 Skill Focus Profession Merchant, 15 Uncanny Dodge (Spellcaster Bonus Feat option so should be available as a general feat)

Merchant Prince: Master of Commerce and Mercantile Knowledge

UA Spellcaster Variant Bonus Feat: Evasion

Spellcasting as a Spellcaster - 2 using the Merchant Prince variant:

Daily Spellcasting as a CL 2: 5 / 3

Known Spells 5 / 2

Cantrips: Arcane Mark, Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation & Read Magic

First: Color Spray and True Strike

Spellfire Channeler:

Drain charged items as a standard action can drain a single charge item and convert the energy into a single spellfire energy level.

Drain permanent items.

Increased Storage 18 Con times 5 = Up to 90 spellfire levels

Improved Healing 2-5 Hit Points per Spell fire energy level

Weapon Focus Spellfire

Rapid Blast can release Up to 3 blasts as a standard action although each blast suffers a consecutive -2 penalty to attack rolls.

Flight (SU) can fly up to 1 minute per spell fire energy level leaving a visible trail of light.

Deflect Arrows (SU) Deflect Arrow feat using a single level of spellfire energy to knock the missile away.

Crown of Fire (SU) By expending 10 spellfire energy levels a channeler can manifest the Crown of Fire (Halo of Spellfire) equal to a Daylight spell which confers DR 10/Magic and automatically melts all nonmagical weapons that strike the spellfire wielder. It also confers SR32. Maintaining the Crown costs 10 spellfire energy levels a round which can be done as a free action. The Crown does not interfere with a PC channeler's other actions including using spellfire.

Maelstrom of Fire (SU) the spellfire channeler can release spellfire energy is a 20' radius spread doing 1D6 damage per spellfire energy level expended to all creatures in the area (Reflex half, DC 10 + CL + Char Mod).

760,000 GP:

Heward's Handy Haversack 2,000 GP

+7 Bracers of Armor 64,000 GP

+6 Amulet of Health and Natural Armor +4, 72,000 (Doubled) + 32,000 GP = 104,000 GP

Robe of the Arch Magi 75,000 GP

+3 Ring of Theurgy 58,000 GP

+6 Weapon to taste 72,000 GP

Ring of 3 Wishes 97,500

+2 Missile Weapon to taste 8,000 GP

+10 Mithril Buckler 100,000 GP

Boots of Speed and Striding and Springing 5,500 GP + 20,000 GP (Doubled) = 25,500 GP

60,000 GP in assorted scrolls, potions and other temporary items up to 18,000

90,000 GP in other minor gear up to 18,000 GP

Still tweaking.

Indon
2007-07-26, 10:28 AM
A Grapple-based Pixie monk (Pixies are Fine, right?).

Edit: This build comes with the bonus that if it ever _can_ do its' task competently, it would be hilarious.

Dausuul
2007-07-26, 10:48 AM
I disagree because a level 20 sorcerer or wizard that started with a primary ability score of 9 would raise it to 14 minimum at level 20 which is level 4 spells.

You can give a samauri the best weapons and armor for his class within DMG suggested wealth guidelines of 760,000 GP and it only improves the PC to a degree.

Even limiting a sorcerer or wizard to the NPC DMG suggested gear on pages 125 and 126 at level 17 (wizards) and level 18 (sorcerers) they get a +6 primary ability enhancing item which would give them full spellcasting with level 9 spells even if they started with a primary ability score of 9.

Some sort of Tome would be ideal as it could not be lost or stolen normally like an item could.

A +1 Tome is only 27,500 GP, a +2 is 55,000 GP, a +3 is 82,500 GP, a +4 is110,000 GP and a +5 is only 137,500. All are less than 25% of suggested wealth and would bump up the primary ability and spellcasting to some degree.

Even a cheap +2 Headband of Intellect or Cloak of Charisma at 4,000 GP allows casting up to level 6 spells.

Spending a little more on a +4 Item at 16,000 GP allows casting up to level 8 spells.

A +6 Item costing 36,000 GP (a mere 5% of suggested character wealth) allows full casting.

All of this assumes that you're taking this wizard and trying to make him effective. Which is completely not the point. The whole goal is to de-optimize, so you put all your bonus stat points into Cha and don't buy any +Int items.

hippie_dwarf
2007-07-26, 11:06 AM
Simple. Make a level 20 truenamer (ToM) but don't put any ranks into truespeak, do whatever you like with money, ability scores and utterances (spells) and the skills(as long as they're not in truespeak)

That way he know's things true names but i'll be damed if he knows how to say them :smallbiggrin:

Overlord
2007-07-26, 11:15 AM
Well, it also depends on whether we're allowing stupid tactics (other than outright seppuku).

If so, then I'm entering my Half-Orc Venerable Wizard 19/Barbarian 1.

With 28 point buy:

STR 3
DEX 5
CON 4
INT 6 (4 if you count the bonus from age before the racial penalty)
WIS 24
CHA 29

He takes two flaws, Slow and Frail , meaning

A: He has a speed of 15, meaning it's going to be next to impossible for him to outrun anything that moves as fast or faster than a halfling.

B: With Frail and a -3 CON modifier, he's going to be getting a maximum of...0 hit points a level. Frail allows one to receive 0 hit points from hit dice, and with -3 hit points from the Con penalty and the extra -1 from Frail, he can't gain hit points except for his 1d12-4 from the last Barbarian level. He can't possibly have more than 8 hit points, unusual circumstances aside.

And what is he doing with 7 feats from levels, 2 from flaws, and 3 from Wizard levels? Taking Spell Mastery 12 times, of course!

You see, Spell Mastery lets you prepare a number of spells without your spellbook equal to you Intelligence modifier. He has an intelligence penalty. And it does not say minimum one. So the feats are meaningless! :smallbiggrin:

His skills are all put into various forms of Profession.


He rages as soon as he goes into battle, prohibiting him from activating any magic items that require spell completion or spell trigger (or command words).

And if I had it my way, he'd be carrying several hundred Stones of Weight, along with other cursed items. But since I'm sure that's not allowed, how spending his gold on about a hundred or so Candles of Truth? That way, people will be honest about how much he sucks while they're beating him up.

Also, he's having to drag the sack of candles, because he can't lift more than 30 pounds above his head. That'll add some penalties to combat.

And, of course, he's fighting barehanded without armor.

EDIT: Hehe, good one. But doesn't he still have a chance of succeeding on a natural roll of twenty? :smallbiggrin:

Telonius
2007-07-26, 11:28 AM
An Artificer with Vow of Poverty would probably be up in the running.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-26, 11:38 AM
ECL 20 Multiclass Noble Djinni - (19 Djinni levels Favored Class Savage Species treating the Noble Djinni just like an Effretti), Sorcerer - 1 with standard feats and skills.

Unless I missed something from Savage Species these are the ability modifiers leveling up for a standard 7D8 Djinni:

S +8, Dex +8, Con +4, Int +4, Wis +4, Char +4

Using 32 point buy and averaging out ability scores with 15 (Char), 14, 14, 14, 14, 14 & +2 for HD/Level:

S 22, Dex 22, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 18 and Char 21

10D8 + 1D4 HD + 44 (Con) = 51 + 44 = 95 Hit points.

1% of Djinni are "Noble" and can grant Three Wishes to any being (Non Genies Only).

Noble Djinni are as strong as Efreeti with 10HD. Djinni disdain physical combat, preferring to use their magical powers and aerial abilities against foes.

A djinni overmatched usually takes flight and becomes a whirlwind to harass those who follow. (Based on their intelligence and wisdom a djinni should use the wish granting abilitly to grant wishes to non genies that benefit itself:

A good example would be having a standard Wish effect take place based on a condition (being attacked, spoken word or gesture).

760,000 GP in gear:

hippie_dwarf
2007-07-26, 11:46 AM
EDIT: Hehe, good one. But doesn't he still have a chance of succeeding on a natural roll of twenty? :smallbiggrin:

Nope. It's trained only and a the spell DC's are 10 + spell level + 2X Hit dice so assuming your fighting something your level the Dc's going to be at least 51. Even if it was untrained and you got a 20 you'd have to somehow get a circumstance bonus of +31

Also you could just make a arcane spellcaster and put it in fullplate and a tower shield. Good luck trying to overcome spell failure :smalltongue:

Dausuul
2007-07-26, 12:09 PM
I agree but the other poster started off the sorcerer/wizard with a primary casting ability of 9.

A fullcaster is viable with a 14 + for primary for the purposes of this thread which you could make 14, 10, 10, 10, 10, 9 using standard NPC point generation of 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10 and tweaking it. You can make a fullcaster with NPC standard gear who can cast level 9 spells Base 10 or 11 +5 for leveling up and a +6 DMG suggested primary ability score enhancing item.

I really don't see what you're getting at here. Yeah, I could make that wizard effective if I gave him +Int gear, but the point is to make a character who's ineffective, so I'm not giving him +Int gear. As a result, he's an ineffective character.

(And actually, I started him off with Int 6. It went up to 9 due to being Venerable.)

SilverClawShift
2007-07-26, 12:20 PM
An Artificer with Vow of Poverty would probably be up in the running.

*pins a blue ribbon on Telonius*

I guess the question would be, can they still MAKE expensive stuff to give to other people, using their materials.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-26, 12:28 PM
I still say the WoTC board threads have better useless builds.

Example

Hmph, I think I should edit my original mind-switch thread. The most optimal way to gain a body permanently is no longer true mind switch. It's to use astral seed + mind switch + psychic chirurgery. The result is an XP expendature of 0 XP, that's right zero. You lose no levels, and you gain all the effects of true mind switch.

Anyways, so in lieu of what I just said above, the most optimal way to create the most un-optimal character is to use the following sequence and build:

Race: Elan
Build: Telepath 20
Feats: Any, must have EK(Astral Seed) and skill focus (craft [basket weaving])

1. Acquire a loaf of bread (2cp)
2. Turn the bread into a sandwich (craft DC 5) (probably 2 minutes)
3. Polymorph the sandwich (preferably ham with mustard, pepperoni, salami, and jalapenos) into a fuzzy little bunny. (NPC casting 1200 gp) (1 standard action)
4. Cast astral seed (10 minutes)
5. Ritualistically slay yourself with favored method of suicide. Be sure to place your storage crystal next to the sandwich turned bunny. (I prefer to be killed with a dagger to the heart... ) (Approximately 5 rounds)
6. Use mind-switch (the 6th level power) to switch with the rabbit, while in your storage crystal. (1 std action)
7. Metamorph into a troll and smash your storage crystal (now containing the mind of a sandwich). (2 standard actions)
8. Use psychic chirurgery to remove your negative level gotten from committing suicide. (10 minutes)
9. Dismiss your metamorphosis and manifest dispel psionics on yourself (to dispel the polymorph). (2 standard actions)

Congratulations, your ascention to the sublime state of a sandwich took:
23 minutes 6 seconds and costed you 1200.02 gold pieces.

Any one have a more optimal method?

Now, it occurred to me that this might not be a half bad character to play. So long as you pick up the power psionic overland flight and tweak your character levels a bit, you could seriously play a sandwich. Of course your hitpoints or AC wouldn't be much to speak of... but honestly, who is going to kill the sandwich that the fighter packs.

Draz74
2007-07-26, 12:40 PM
I'm surprised nobody has tried to stack a whole bunch of templates on a race with LA and come up with a Level 1 creature.

Half-Dragon Half-Celestial Phrenic Svirfneblin anyone? That's about the best I can come up with through the SRD. Add supplements to really make it work. (The above build would still have 8 class levels, which is 7 too many.)

EDIT: Shutting down a few recurring ideas here:

- Your opponent controls your character's actions in these duels. That means you can't assume the character will act dumb while fighting! Among other things, this means if you try to shut down an arcane caster by wearing heavy armor, your opponent will just use a few of his turns to shed your armor.
- You have to have 760,000 gp worth of items. Presumably that means Vow of Poverty is right out banned. Too bad :smallmad:, it was a brilliant idea; great with an Artificer, but also excellent with many other builds (Wizard with no Spell Mastery, anyone?).
- There's not a rule that your ability scores have to be high enough to cast any spells that your class levels allow you to cast. Yet. I'm pretty sure this rule is going to be made, so you might as well assume it. :smalltongue:

The Truenamer with no Truespeak skill is one of the better ideas I've seen - unable to cast even if his Intelligence is high. But at least he can use his Medium BAB to whack stuff!

blue_fenix
2007-07-26, 12:54 PM
Wu Jen 20, taboo: harming anything alive or intelligent (i.e. has a con score or an int score at all)

Or a heavily multiclassed character who not only sucks but has also taken all the vow feats from Book of Exalted deeds. Therefore they are poor (vow of poverty) and can't hurt anyone (vow of peace) and don't have enough spells to incapacitate anyone.

Overlord
2007-07-26, 02:58 PM
Wu Jen 20, taboo: harming anything alive or intelligent (i.e. has a con score or an int score at all)

Or a heavily multiclassed character who not only sucks but has also taken all the vow feats from Book of Exalted deeds. Therefore they are poor (vow of poverty) and can't hurt anyone (vow of peace) and don't have enough spells to incapacitate anyone.

I can do better:

Wu Jen 20.

Taboo: breathing.

"Think of the poor oxygen!"

Douglas
2007-07-26, 03:10 PM
No custom taboos. If you make a Wu Jen, you have to pick your taboos from the list in Complete Arcane.

Vow of Poverty is allowed, Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace are not.


A Grapple-based Pixie monk (Pixies are Fine, right?).

Edit: This build comes with the bonus that if it ever _can_ do its' task competently, it would be hilarious.
Pixies are Small. In this particular arena, that build might actually work.

Indon
2007-07-26, 03:32 PM
Pixies are Small. In this particular arena, that build might actually work.

Awww. I'd try for a Tiny race to be a monk, at least.

I don't think there are any Diminuitive player-character playable races...

Arbitrarity
2007-07-26, 03:36 PM
Grig is tiny, that could work somewhat. So is pseudodragon.. Damn, no diminuative dragons.

How about a grappling specialist ghost?

Indon
2007-07-26, 03:38 PM
How about a grappling specialist ghost?

Ghosts, I do believe, can manifest.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-26, 03:56 PM
But are incoporeal. And so, material enemies are incoporeal, and so, can't literally touch material people unless they have ghost touch bodies.

Clove
2007-07-27, 12:02 AM
My first thought was bard. But since people can pick their spells a bard might actually be able to hold his own.

Well, if casters must have a high enough stat to use their spells and the opponent gets to choose the spells for your poorly made character then I would go with a fighter who can't do damage.

Halfling Fighter, twentieth level

He's so old he gets minus three to str, dex, con. So he has a five three strength which gives a minus three four (8 base, -2 size penalty, -3 age = 3 Strength Score) to all damage rolls. He's small, so he can only use small weapons.

He's a fighter so he has lots of feats, but there are a lot of fighter feats to choose from. Just don't choose any that allow him to do more damage. There's alot of feats that won't help too much, like quickdraw, improved initiative. Take exotic weapon proficiencies in small weapons that will do zero or near zero damage with the strength penalty.

When buying equipment, just don't buy anything that will allow him to do more damage. The opponent could pick up a nonmagical a small sized greatsword prior to the match. So he could do some damage, but not very much.

The other big option I see is an Elven Wizard/Sorceror/Prestige Class with D4 Hit dice and a 5 Constitution. This way the character has 1 Hit Point per level, so twenty hit points max health...

You might want to assume healthy adult characters. No elderly adventurers.

Douglas
2007-07-27, 12:14 AM
My first thought was bard. But since people can pick their spells a bard might actually be able to hold his own.

Well, if casters must have a high enough stat to use their spells and the opponent gets to choose the spells for your poorly made character then I would go with a fighter who can't do damage.
For spontaneous casters you can choose spells known. For wizards you can choose what spells are in your spellbook. What spells a character has access to is part of the build, and you control that. The opponent's control comes in when choosing which spells of those available get prepared to cast. Yes, this means clerics with their automatic access to the entire spell list are a bad idea for this challenge.

Overlord
2007-07-27, 01:20 AM
No custom taboos. If you make a Wu Jen, you have to pick your taboos from the list in Complete Arcane.

Vow of Poverty is allowed, Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace are not.


Let me add the following to my previous build, then (the Venerable Gray Elf Wizard, not the Great Asphyxiator):

Venerable Gray Elf Wizard 20, with the aformentioned feats and ability scores, carrying his maximum lifting in clubs. So he can move only 5 feet per round, as a full round action. And, you know, let's say that the elf's family, was concerned about him, in his senility, losing the bundle of clubs, which happen to be a hundred pounds' worth of family heirlooms. So they chained the bundle to him.

He has taken a vow of poverty, but forgot to take the actual feat. Stupid 6 Int feeble old elf! So he can't use magic items, because he doesn't have any. :smallbiggrin:

And let's not forget that, thanks to his abysmal Con score and the Frail trait, he gets a maximum of zero hit points per level. Well, probably one hit point for first level. But in any event, the level twenty Wizard only has one hit point.

Forget housecats, this poor sap lives in fear of tree frogs! Heck, anything that deals one single hit point of damage to him knocks him unconscious.

EDIT: Oh, yes, as Draz74 noted, he has no spellbook, but has taken Spell Mastery 12 times. And not one of those will help, because he has an intelligence penalty.

This may be a cheap build, but at least I find it amusing. :smalltongue:

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-27, 03:51 AM
I'm surprised nobody has tried to stack a whole bunch of templates on a race with LA and come up with a Level 1 creature.

Half-Dragon Half-Celestial Phrenic Svirfneblin anyone? That's about the best I can come up with through the SRD. Add supplements to really make it work. (The above build would still have 8 class levels, which is 7 too many.)

EDIT: Shutting down a few recurring ideas here:

- Your opponent controls your character's actions in these duels. That means you can't assume the character will act dumb while fighting! Among other things, this means if you try to shut down an arcane caster by wearing heavy armor, your opponent will just use a few of his turns to shed your armor.
- You have to have 760,000 gp worth of items. Presumably that means Vow of Poverty is right out banned. Too bad :smallmad:, it was a brilliant idea; great with an Artificer, but also excellent with many other builds (Wizard with no Spell Mastery, anyone?).
- There's not a rule that your ability scores have to be high enough to cast any spells that your class levels allow you to cast. Yet. I'm pretty sure this rule is going to be made, so you might as well assume it. :smalltongue:

The Truenamer with no Truespeak skill is one of the better ideas I've seen - unable to cast even if his Intelligence is high. But at least he can use his Medium BAB to whack stuff!


I had a similar idea but was thinking a Plane Touched (+0 LA) Kobold UA Variant Spellcaster - 1 who has undertaken the Draconic Rite of Passage with the Paragon Creature Template from the Epic Hand Book.

Hit Points 12 (Level 1 Paragon) + 4 (Sorcerer) + (8 for Con HP) - 1 HP for the Draconic Rite of Passage equals 23 HP.

The DR 10/Epic should be negated by Epic weapons or spellcasting but will surprise most beings below level 18.

Fast Healing 20, SR 45 (CR20 + 25), Attack - 1, Base BAB - 0,

Base abilities: S 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Char 15

Alignment normally LE

Plane Touched Kobold: S 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 14, Char 13

Move 90 (Paragon 30 times 3)

Paragon Kobold without magic items: S 25 (+7), Dex 33 (+11), Con 27 (+8), Int 31 (+10), Wis 29 (+9), Char 28 (+9)

Variant Spellcaster Bonus Feat - Precocious Apprentice Complete Arcane Scorching Ray

Draconic Rite of Passage - (SP) True Strike 1/Day

Level 1 Feat - Regional Godsight Lost Empires of Faerun Cl 1 + 15 = 16, Detect Evil 3/Day, Detect Magic 3/Day, Detect Poison 3/Day, Detect Undead 3/Day, Read Magic 3/Day

Paragon spell-like abilities:
Greater Dispelling 3/Day CL 15
Haste 3/Day CL 15
See Invisibility 3/Day CL 15

Bonus Paragon General Feat- Spell Fire Wielder (Magic of Faerun)

Spellcasting 4 / 5 (4)

Known 4 / 2 (1)

Cantrips: Arcane Mark, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost

First: Color Spray, Magic Missile

Second: Scorching Ray

Ring of Theurgy (20,000 GP Complete Arcane) Can store up to 3 spells as known spells for a sorcerer/spellcaster and grant a few more spellcasting options.

760,000 GP:

*Amulet of Natural Armor +5, 50,000 GP

*Bracers of Armor +7 64,000 GP

*Ring +3 of Theurgy 18,000 Gp + 40,000 GP (Doubled cost for Theurgy Ability as dual magical item) = 58,000 GP

*+ 5 Cloak of Resistance and Charisma +6, 25,000 GP + 72,000 GP (Doubled cost of Charisma for dual magical item)

+1 Bane (Evil Outsiders (*Which would include Efreeti (+1))), Icy Burst (+2), Speed Weapon (+ 3) 98,000 GP

+ 1 Bane (Evil Outsiders), Icy Burst Weapon to taste 32,000 GP

Since a level 20 DMG NPC sorcerer has 140,000 GP to be used as desired for gear:

50,000 GP to taste for Potions, Scrolls and other Temporary Items with no item costing over 18,000 GP

90,000 GP to taste with no item costing over 18,000 GP

Douglas
2007-07-27, 02:16 PM
Paragon doesn't have a listed level adjustment, but even if it did it would still be a terrible choice for this arena. Yes, you don't have many hit points, but you get so many bonuses to everything that I don't think it would be possible to rack up enough penalties to avoid being an incredible powerhouse compared to everyone else in the arena.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-27, 05:01 PM
Paragon doesn't have a listed level adjustment, but even if it did it would still be a terrible choice for this arena. Yes, you don't have many hit points, but you get so many bonuses to everything that I don't think it would be possible to rack up enough penalties to avoid being an incredible powerhouse compared to everyone else in the arena.

You could be right although I'm sure somebody will probably come up with a worse high ECL template combo for a single or few hit die/level build.

This is a simple ineffective build against most fighter types and full casters although I missed the SR being so high SR 41 via the update to SRD regarding the Epic Handbook they should have lots of spellcasting options.

This is still a suboptimized ineffective build for an arena combat against an assortment of unknown ECL 20s. I'm basing my build on the creature having to fight a weak standard ECL 20 level 20 monk or samauri outfitted with 760,000 GP in gear for a standard.

Simply tweaking the build to Paragon Creature Kobold Variant Battle Spellcaster or Spellcaster - 5 and dropping the other two templates really improves the survivability increasing base hit points to 139 (Battle) or 119 before constitution adjustment along with wearing armor with paragon abilities enhancing spellcasting (Magic Missile, Scorching Ray) and the two bonus feats and taking something like Evasion and Uncanny Dodge or other useful feats and possibly allowing the Fast Healing 20 to start working.

A DMG Samauri - 20 just using standard DMG NPC (Not PC) suggested wealth should be able to defeat my paragon creature kobold sorcerer -1 because all the paragon creature goodies like DR10/Epic and Fast Healing 20 don't do a whole lot for a single hit die creature limited to 1HD and a single attack a round against a typical ECL 20 creature trying to kill it. Most full casters won't need anything but a few of their spells to defeat the kobold unless they are really sub optimized.

Douglas
2007-07-27, 05:31 PM
Sample NPC Monk from DMG: highest attack bonus is +23.
Your kobold Paragon is guaranteed to have an AC in excess of 40, just from the insight, luck, and natural armor bonuses of the template combined with the +15 to dexterity.

That Monk won't even be able to hit without a natural 20, and even then his damage will be reduced by 10. Unless he can somehow do over 30 damage in one round despite that (high con, +12 hp per die from template, have to kill outright to stop fast healing), the Monk is doomed. The kobold will be hitting back with an attack bonus in the 30's (+25 luck, Haste, high strength) and damage in the 20's at a minimum per hit.

Now remember that we're talking about an NPC that was intended to be reasonably powerful, while everyone in the arena is being deliberately gimped. Go ahead, make your kobold Paragon. I'll even let you have him at +19 LA so you don't have to stack any more templates on to bring him down to one hit die. I fully expect that he will massacre everyone he meets.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-27, 06:25 PM
Sample NPC Monk from DMG: highest attack bonus is +23.
Your kobold Paragon is guaranteed to have an AC in excess of 40, just from the insight, luck, and natural armor bonuses of the template combined with the +15 to dexterity.

That Monk won't even be able to hit without a natural 20, and even then his damage will be reduced by 10. Unless he can somehow do over 30 damage in one round despite that (high con, +12 hp per die from template, have to kill outright to stop fast healing), the Monk is doomed. The kobold will be hitting back with an attack bonus in the 30's (+25 luck, Haste, high strength) and damage in the 20's at a minimum per hit.

Now remember that we're talking about an NPC that was intended to be reasonably powerful, while everyone in the arena is being deliberately gimped. Go ahead, make your kobold Paragon. I'll even let you have him at +19 LA so you don't have to stack any more templates on to bring him down to one hit die. I fully expect that he will massacre everyone he meets.

A straight core samauri or monk - 20 is normally considered gimped classwise with the options available.

I built a simple ECL 20 encounter that most level 20 characters can take down without being optimized by themselves individually without a party normally without utilizing a lot of their gear although the monk would probably have the most difficulty depending on the gear each has.

It comes down to what each person considers reasonably powerful because that 760,000 GP in gear really throws in a monkey wrench unless it is just completely wasted or blown.

A typical level 18 NPC with lesser wealth normally has a + 5 magic item. Just giving the combatants the gear of a DMG level 20 NPC still leaves them with a substantial amount leftover (576,000 GP for a monk plenty to upgrade that weapon to Epic and purchase lots of other goodies).

Level 20 characters should generally have an Epic weapon based on what comparable NPCs have which pretty much negates the DR10/Epic provided by the template. Most should have 3 or more physical attacks unless attacking with spells or personal magic items.

Personally I don't think a monk taking Intuitive Attack as one of his general feats is optimizing the monk. That would simply be a no brainer normal common sense feat for a monk to take like taking two at least Two levels in Sword Sage.

Consider the difference in simply enhancing a level 20 monk build by taking a that first level in Rogue and building on it with multiclassing with Monk - 3, Rogue - 3, Ninja - 3, Sword Sage -2, Assassin - 2, Enlightened Fist - 7 and throwing in a single feat taking that Ascetic Monk/Rogue for Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike stacking with unarmed combat makes a huge difference in combat effectiveness along with the no brainer Intuitive Attack feat and enhancing wisdom. Throw in a few more feats likeTouch of Golden Ice for Evil creatures or other feats or Tome of Battle manuevers and it really starts rocking.

The other dips really enhance general utiltity providing a few more options. Death attacks, pumping up hit points with Vigor or making a psionic Acid Touch attack on an unarmed strike or spending a feat on expanded knowledge for Energy Missile.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-27, 06:27 PM
Hey, that's how to spend your cash! Get a +6 ribbon Scythe. Requires EWP for proficiency, same stats as a normal scythe, costs 720K.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-27, 06:39 PM
Half-Dragon, Half-Celestial, Half-Fiendish, Celestial, Fiendish, Phrenic Half-Orc Lich Sorceror 1.

TheLogman
2007-07-27, 06:41 PM
Liches are kinda strong though...

Fax Celestis
2007-07-27, 06:43 PM
Liches are kinda strong though...

Liches with 1d12-4 HD?

TheLogman
2007-07-27, 06:48 PM
Well, he'd be hard to keep dead, unless the Phylacetry is a piece of paper or the like, that he keeps in his person, or inside the arena. Cause this is an arena battle right?

Fax Celestis
2007-07-27, 06:48 PM
Well, he'd be hard to keep dead still, unless the Phylacetry is a piece of paper, that he keeps in his person.

His phylactery is a masterwork acid flask, which he throws at the start of combat.

TheLogman
2007-07-27, 06:49 PM
Beautiful!

namo
2007-07-27, 07:15 PM
Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher.

It's not a good idea in any case because gimped characters will never overcome your DR, and you can make touch attacks that have a not-so-bad chance of working.

edit: similarly, half-dragons gets you claws, a breath weapon, a Strength bonus, a natural armor bonus and that makes it a bad choice. The winner will have no offensive capability beyond... his fists (and no Improved Unarmed Strike, of course).
The final will be a brawl between weak spellcasters !

Draz74
2007-07-27, 07:19 PM
Plus the other ways you can't apply all of those templates to the same creature ...

Overlord
2007-07-27, 07:31 PM
Okay, here's my real entry into this little escapade. :smalltongue:

Venerable Half Orc Wizard 20.

32 point buy stats before increases and racial adjustments:

STR 17
DEX 8
CON 10
INT 8
WIS 9
CHA 18

after:

Str 13
Dex 2
Con 4
Int 9
Wis 12
Cha 26

All 23 of his skill points are invested in Profession: farming.

All 13 of his feats are Spell Mastery. Because he doesn't have an intelligence bonus, these feats allow him to prepare a total of zero spells (plus read magic!) without a spell book.

He has taken two flaws, Frail and Noncombatant. Frail means that, after his 4 Con, he gets zero hit points per level. Let's assume he has one hit point for first level. Okay, then. He has one hit point at level 20.


He has, in summary:

1 hit point.
A 9 attack bonus in melee, 6 in ranged.
A 6 armor class, not counting armor, which he actually isn't proficient in using.
No spells available to cast.
He can use diplomacy untrained.

And, really, anybody else's entry is either going to have a level 20 PC's starting wealth in magic items, or Vow of Poverty, so that pretty much puts all of the candidates on a level playing field in that respect.

Douglas
2007-07-27, 08:43 PM
Please go to the recruiting thread linked in the first post and actually read the rules there. That build violates a few of them. If you're serious about entering, make a character sheet on one of the usual websites and post a link to it in that thread.

Armads
2007-07-27, 09:06 PM
Hmm

TN Half-Orc Psychic Warrior 7/Wizard 13
Hp: 7d8+13d4
BAB: +11
Feats: Skill focus (hide), Skill focus (listen), Skill focus (Move silently), Skill focus (appraise), Power Throw, Dodge (B), Mobility, Scribe Scroll (B), Spell Mastery (B), Spell Mastery (B), Wild Talent (B), Blind-Fight (B), Brutal Throw
Stats: Str 13, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 27, Cha 30 (3 level up bonuses into Cha)
Flaws: Shaky, Noncombatant, Frail
Traits: Quick
AC: 11, touch 11, flat-footed 9, AC is 7 while expanded
Items: Tome of Wisdom +5, Tome of Charisma +5 (can't remember their names), gloves of dexterity +4, periapt of wisdom +6, cloak of charisma +6, +1 returning holy axiomatic bolas of speed and impact, +1 returning anarchic unholy bolas of speed and impact, 5000 gp raise dead diamond, slightly less than 3400 gp (for the cost of 2 shruikens).

Tactics:
Manifest Expansion, augmented to 7 (Huge)
Str becomes 17, Dex becomes 10. He doesn't care.
Dual Wield his shruikens, and full attack, NOT using Power Throw to use his strength mod instead of dex for ranged attack rolls. Brutal Throw his BAB away
Attack Bonus for Off Hand:
11 BAB -10 (TWF penalty) -11 (brutal throw) +0 (dex mod) +1 (enhancement) -2 (shaky) -2 size -4 (negative levels) = -17. He might not hit a dragon even with wraithstrike
Damage for Off Hand:
1d8+13 (if he ever hits)

Attack Bonus for Primary Hand: -13
Damage for Primary hand: 1d8+15

Hit Points: 56 (Psywar) + 52 (wizard) + 20 (constitution) -20 (frail) -20 (quick) - 20 (negative levels) = 68 hp.

Possible Improvement (well, Un-Improvement)
Get some grafts that cost hp.

Tengu
2007-07-27, 09:12 PM
Won't really work in douglas' arena, for reasons obvious after reading the initial post in the other topic.

And I'm personally glad he set up so many additional rules. Without them, it'd be a melee battle of dual-wielding wizards with intelligence too low to cast any spells and all feats spent on various skill boosters and crafting. And there's no challenge on that.

Thurbane
2007-07-27, 09:19 PM
Halfling Barbarian with STR, DEX and CON as his lowest stats?

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-07-27, 10:15 PM
Alright, here's a first draft of the Avatar of Inverted Exhalation:

Magikarp: Sanctified Draconic Awakened Axiomatic Barracuda Psychic Warrior 1 / Samurai 8: Magical Beast (Aquatic, Augmented Animal, Extraplanar)
Hit Points: 10d10 + 1d8 (hp 108)
Initiative: 6
Speed: Swim 80 ft
AC: 23 (10 + 9 husk + 2 Dex + 2 Nat)
BAB/Grapple: 10/3 // 10
Attack: +10 Claw d3 or +10 Bite d4
Full Attack: +10 2 Claws d3 and 5 Bite d4
Space/Reach: 5/5
Special Attacks: Sprint, Smite Law (N/A)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, Low-Light Vision, Scent, Resistance 5: Cold, Electricity, Fire, and Sonic, Spell Resistance hd + 5
Saves: Base: 9, 5, 5 [+ 4 racial (draconic) vs sleep and paralysis]
Abilities: Str: 10 (+2 drac), Dex: 14 (+6 racial), Con: 10 (+2 drac), Int: 18, Wis: 20 (+2 racial), Cha: 10 (+2 drac)
Skills: Listen: 14 Spot: 14 Swim: 10, +2 (racial) Intimidate, Spot
Feats: Rapid Swimming, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Wild Talent, Body Fuel, Sea Legs, Improved Initiative, Monkey Grip
Alignment: CG

Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, shields (not tower), not armor. Dragonscale Husk.

Sprint (Ex): move three times swim speed on a charge
Skills: +8 racial bonus on Swim for special actions or avoiding hazards, can always take 10 on Swim, can run while swimming in a line
Smite Chaos (Su) (N/A): 1/day deal normal attack deals + (number of hit die) damage against chaotic opponent
Linked Minds (Ex): If the gods are cruel and there is another like Magikarp within 300 feet of him, the two are in constant communication.
Daisho Proficiency: EWP(BS)
Kiai Smite (Ex): 2/day add cha bonus to atk and dmg (min +1)
Two swords as One (Ex): TWF w/ Kat+Wak
Iaijutsu Master (Ex): Quick draw w/ Kat or Wak
Staredown: +4 Intimidate to demoralize
Light Ray (Su): 1/round as a standard action, ray of light from eyes (60 ft touch attack) deals d6/2 hd to evil creatures, no effect vs nonevil
Aura of Menace (Su): All hostile creatures within 20ft Will DC (10 + 1/2 hd + Cha mod) fail = -2 atk, AC, saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit Magikarp
Magic Circle against Evil (Su): cl = hd
Tongues (Su): cl = hd

Powers Known: Float

+2 LA: Awakened
+4 LA: Axiomatic
+1 LA: Draconic
+2 LA: Sanctified

760,000 gp
729,000 gp 9 Cogizance Crystal (17 power points each)


:smallamused:

TheLogman
2007-07-27, 11:25 PM
Do not watch if offended by crude language, but SPLASH ATTTTTACKKKKK! (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/377178)

Also, in my next game, my players will be given the choice of their characters, or a level 20 I found on the Internet. I hope someone chooses Magikarp over here.

Also, this is amazing, absolutely amazing, you are a genius.

SPLASH ATTACK!

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-07-28, 07:51 PM
I'm not happy with even this being a rough draft for numerous reasons. Right now, problem one is the samurai class. While they are all throw away levels, they give too much BAB and that d10 is really making this a buff lil gimp fish. Any ideas on how I can get rid of more levels/ gimp the Sam levels more so while still maintaining the whole "will eventually suffocate to death if the fight isn't already over because I'm freaking useless" theme? :smallconfused:

TheLogman
2007-07-28, 10:03 PM
Sorcerer, make him a sorcerer He can only cast level 0 spells.

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-07-28, 10:17 PM
I'd like to avoid the caster thing if possible. Everyone and their uncle is doing casters with non-combat spells. The point of this whole misbegotten creation is to take a whole different angle at useless. Batman is the top of the heap, so I'll be demmed if I let Gimpy McTwinklefingers take bottom too. :smalltongue:

TheLogman
2007-07-28, 10:36 PM
Marshal from the Mini's handbook gives +7/ +2 Bab at level 10, and has d8 for Hp. He also only gets a few class abilities, all of which only help if he has at least 1 ally nearby, and even then only work with a positive Charisma modifier. However, he does have +7 Fort and Will Saves, and +3 Reflex. The low Con will bring down the Fort, but his Will is gonna be Pretty good.

Renegade Paladin
2007-07-28, 11:29 PM
A fighter with the entire Weapon Focus tree built around the net. That's right. Weapon Specialization (net), the single worst legitimate feat in the game. :smallamused: