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View Full Version : Making a bard less reliant on magic?



Bringer
2017-03-13, 08:07 AM
I would have honestly preferred the Bard class to be structured/built in a similar way to how the Monk was built. 1d8 hit dice, focuses on charisma in the same way a monk focuses on wisdom. Bardic inspiration that scales in the same way as ki points, and class abilities that use bardic inspiration to use in place of spells(perhaps you spend a few bardic inspirations to sing a song that buffs the party during a fight)

Unarmored defense(Dex + Charisma) your quick wit irritates the enemy and makes them attack more sloppily and recklessly, thus allowing you to evade more easily.

Vicious mockery is no longer a cantrip, and instead becomes a class feature.

Alternatively, I wouldn't mind a spellcasting Bard as much if their spell slots worked more like Warlock's. Always casting at the highest level, few spell slots, refreshes on a short rest.

I don't know, I just feel like a Bard being a caster doesn't fit the concept. When I think Bard, I just don't think throwing out magical spells.

Nicodiemus
2017-03-13, 08:17 AM
The history of the bard in D&D is based around the Celtic version. They were actually Journeyman Druids. In D&D, at least, they've always had magical abilities.

Willie the Duck
2017-03-13, 08:26 AM
First, to stipulate, there's very little that is required for a bard to be a bard except that historically they were performers and storytellers (and keepers of oral tradition, if you want to emphasize the 'lorekeeper' aspect). Therefore, bards can be just about anything the game designers (or homebrewers) want them to be (up to and including just a background that anyone can take instead of a class proper).

That said, what you have proposed is a pretty big shift from anything done before in D&D. The closest would be 1st edition AD&D bards, which were something of a proto-'prestige class' long before the concept was formalized. Those bards fought (as fighters 5-7th level, depending on when you wanted to duck out), and rogued (as thief 5-8th), and then cast spells as a druid. In 5e terms, something similar might be accomplished with a 1/2 or 1/3-progression class/subclass in the paladin/Eldritch Knight vein. However, I do not know of any D&D examples of spell-less bards. A short rest bard is an interesting alternative. I think having a short rest and long rest version of each spellcaster would be an interesting challenge, but I definitely understand why they didn't do it in the main rulebook.

So that's what I have to say. If you want a spellcasting-less "bard", it is not hard to do with the whole background system--just pick the right background for a monk or fighter or rogue.

blurneko
2017-03-13, 08:36 AM
Perhaps refluff the spells as songs?

Heroism?: Song of Bravery
Sleep?: Lullaby
Hypnotic Pattern?: Hypnotic Tune

Call your spell slots whatever you want your Bard resource you want it to be.
Magic and spellslots are just a mechanic. You can call it anything you want.

Sir cryosin
2017-03-13, 08:45 AM
I find the bard is weird with out spells. ( That's just from a game perceptive ). Now if you want a spelless bard play a half-elf Entertainer background Mastermind rogue. Pick up inspiring leader feat and a few lvs dip into battlemaster. Then use your Mastermind bonuse action to use the help action. From there it all how you describe what things look like as you take your actions.

Hrugner
2017-03-13, 11:37 AM
My current spell-less bard is a barbarian entertainer. Ancients paladin entertainer is also a really good way to do this. As is, the bard class is a caster class, so you're better off starting with a different chassis and importing the fluff through your background.

If you want a bard who casts spells the way a warlock does, make a warlock. If you want some specific features from the bard, you could probably replace your patron with a few bard features.

Cazero
2017-03-13, 11:47 AM
You're conflating the class name with the job.
When a campaign drops a monastery on me, I won't be expecting martial artists. I will be expecting a bunch of clerics because most monasteries are about devotion to a god and not martial perfection of oneself.
Similarly, when the local tavern have a bard, I won't be expecting some dude who can use musical magic to enthrall half the city. I will be expecting a perfectly mundane music player and storyteller with no magical abilities whatsoever. If you really have to give it PC levels, I suggest the rogue class for expertise.

War_lord
2017-03-13, 02:31 PM
Sounds like what you really want to play is a Swashbuckler Rogue.

Meronin
2017-03-14, 08:53 AM
As a bard you don't have to cast all the time, you're competent at other things and your combat spells past Shatter and Whispers are lackluster anyway (and blowing magical secrets on blasting is silly). Plus bonus action and verbal only spells are your friends.

That said, I do wish there was a way to spend spell slots or spell points towards your inspirations rather than have them fixed to your Charisma bonus.

A significantly more martial bard can be done by going valor and dipping two levels of fighter (or by bugging your DM to let you pick Blade from the Kits of Old UA). Defensive Duelist may not be +Cha to Armor and it may make charoppers cringe, but it's an at-will shield on reactions, which the class tends to have few to none of, and it keys off your best weapon options.

That said a minstrel can be done just by going entertainer. Bard is more strongly tied to the idea of characters like Taliesin or the irish filidh.

Cespenar
2017-03-14, 09:01 AM
Go Swashbuckler, Mastermind or Battlemaster and express your Bardly side through roleplaying?