[3.5] Half-Fiend Dire Ape

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

Technically, Half-fiend can't be applied to a Dire Ape, as the ape's Int is only 2.

How can I get it's Int to 3 or higher without bumping up the CR too much? SPellwarped seems obvious, but I'd like to avoid the CR bump, and the SR from both templates does not stack. MOnster of legend would also work, but push the CR too high.

I mean, as a DM, I can handwave the template reqs, but I'd rather not do that.

Ideas?

Cheers - T

http://i64.tinypic.com/2zybdd4.jpg

[the_david]

An Awakened Half-Fiend Dire Ape would have a higher Intelligence. It would also add 2 hit dice, which would als add an additional +1 to its CR.

Although I'm not sure you can awaken a Half-Fiend Dire Ape. (When a mommy Awakened Dire Ape and a Daddy Balor love each other very much...)

Edit: Oh right, there's also the Winged Creature template (Savage Species). If that isn't exactly what you're looking for you can also add the Fiendish template.

[remetagross]

If I remember correctly, the mere presence of the Half-Fiend template is enough to bump the Int of the base creature to 3, even if that creature was mindless. You have this Monk Half-fiend Ooze (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060922a) as evidence. Behold the mighty Ooze which boasts a Dex of 3 and Improved Evasion at the same time! :smalltongue:

[ATHATH]

Doesn't the Fiendish (NOT Half-Fiend) template bump up INT to 3?

[ngilop]

half fiend requires an int of 4 for reasons I am going to go against the grain here and say if a dang dragon can mate with justr about anything and turn the resulting offsprind into half dragons then why are evil outsiders limited to thing that are at minimum almost smart?

just DM hand wave and make a super awesome half fiend gorilla and go to town on awesomeness.

[Eladrinblade]

I never knew about this int requirement. I've made half-fiend dire snakes before. Does it really matter?

[The Viscount]

What about applying the Prodigy unique NPC ability from DMGII? That's a +2 to any stat, and CR+0.

[ngilop]

I never knew about this int requirement. I've made half-fiend dire snakes before. Does it really matter?

No it does not, basically all it means is the spell-likes a half-fiend animal gets are going to be mostly wasted and used in a very predictable fashion with not a lot of forethought of strategy put into their use.

Ive never let rules come before cool. ad everbody hwo plays D&D has to admit that most of the rule are dumb and make no sense and totally favor things with spell and high Int and over price things tha are big and hve lots of str.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Phrenic Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) is +1 CR, gives power resistance, Force Screen, Mind Thrust, Body Adjustment... Just remember that psi-like abilities are always manifest as though augmented up to the manifester level for free.

[Thurbane]

What about applying the Prodigy unique NPC ability from DMGII? That's a +2 to any stat, and CR+0.

I'm not sure that would be RAW either, since an animal cannot have an Int above 2. You could argue that the Prodigy trait makes it a Magical Beast, I guess...

[Inevitability]

I'm not sure that would be RAW either, since an animal cannot have an Int above 2. You could argue that the Prodigy trait makes it a Magical Beast, I guess...

Change its type with human heritage (fluff: human druid got up to freaky stuff), add prodigy, throw on half-fiend. Lose human heritage somehow if you believe having it always makes you a humanoid.

[thoroughlyS]

Phrenic Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) is +1 CR, gives power resistance, Force Screen, Mind Thrust, Body Adjustment... Just remember that psi-like abilities are always manifest as though augmented up to the manifester level for free.
Phrenic only adds to intelligence if it is already 3 or higher. At this rate, they might as well drop Spellwarped, like they discussed in the OP.

[noce]

Fiendish Template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fiendishCreature.htm).

[Thurbane]

I think I'm going with Monster of Legend: since it looks like I have to accept CR increase, might as well get my money's worth for CR +2.

[TIPOT]

You could go with a half fiend half dragon dire ape for extra fire breath (or just fienish half dragon dire ape)

[The Viscount]

I'm not sure that would be RAW either, since an animal cannot have an Int above 2. You could argue that the Prodigy trait makes it a Magical Beast, I guess...

Yeah the rules always were kind of thin on things changing animal to magical beast the instant it improved its Int. I suppose you could change it to magical beast with something like fiendish then apply it for a +1CR, but the majority of fiendish will be overridden by half fiend.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Step 1: Awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm)
Step 2: Half-Fiend Template Class (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a)

The extra 2 HD from Awaken aren't enough to give it +1 CR, so it rounds down for no CR increase at all.

[ShurikVch]

Dire Reincarnation (https://paizo.com/dungeonissues/100/Dungeon100Enhancement.pdf) spell can turn anybody into Dire Ape

[atemu1234]

Change its type with human heritage (fluff: human druid got up to freaky stuff), add prodigy, throw on half-fiend. Lose human heritage somehow if you believe having it always makes you a humanoid.

There's a reason we don't talk about the russian druids.

[flappeercraft]

Hey all,

Technically, Half-fiend can't be applied to a Dire Ape, as the ape's Int is only 2.

How can I get it's Int to 3 or higher without bumping up the CR too much? SPellwarped seems obvious, but I'd like to avoid the CR bump, and the SR from both templates does not stack. MOnster of legend would also work, but push the CR too high.

I mean, as a DM, I can handwave the template reqs, but I'd rather not do that.

Ideas?

Cheers - T

http://i64.tinypic.com/2zybdd4.jpg

He could be some Caster's lab experiment, so Awakened Direl Ape and then have the Half-Fiend template applied through the Nar-Fiendbond spell

[Inevitability]

He could be some Caster's lab experiment, so Awakened Direl Ape and then have the Half-Fiend template applied through the Nar-Fiendbond spell

Nar Fiendbond requires humanoid type.

[flappeercraft]

Nar Fiendbond requires humanoid type.

Polymorph temporarily changes a creature as you know but it also changes type so maybe change it into a human and keep it like that with multiple castings of polymorph while someone else casts Nar Fiendbond. Then when the spell ends nothing states that it would no longer be a Half-Fiend

[Thurbane]

I might be able to cheese it up with a Half-elf or half-orc, taking the Human Heritage feat.

This character dies and is then hit with Dire Reincarnation, coming back as a Dire Ape (but AFAIK, would still retain the Human Heritage feat).

Then hit it with Nar Fiendbond.

:smalltongue:

...either that, or just DM fiat away the Int requirements for Half-fiend.

Although having a look at my advanced 15HD Half-fiend Monster of Legend Dire Ape, it's pretty nasty for CR 11. :smallbiggrin: