raising an undead from a disintegrated corpse

[Ettina]

If you wanted to raise someone as an undead (preferably a free-willed, intelligent undead), but they'd been disintegrated (or suffered similarly-extensive damage to their corpse), how would you do it?

[DrMotives]

Disintegrate leaves less dust behind than the little piles of world leader from the Adam West Batman movie. So any kind of bodied undead are right out. However, undead that don't use the body of the formerly living being are all good. So ghosts, specters, wraiths, shadows, etc should all be possible.

[Angrith]

If you absolutely must have a bodied undead, wish/limited wish should be able to create a body out of the dust. Of course, that seems a little much just for an undead.

[frogglesmash]

If you don't have access to wish but want them to be corporeal you can raise then as an incorporeal undead then use the Haunt Shift spell to turn them into a haunting presence and have them Haunt a suit of armor or something similar. The subject must have more than 5 HD to animate the armor, and less than 9 HD to be the target of Haunt Shift.

[Ettina]

Incorporeal is just fine. So you don't need a corpse to make an incorporeal undead?

From what I understand, you can turn someone from one type of undead to another by killing and re-raising them. (Eg kill a zombie, deflesh it and raise a skeleton.) So, if an undead can only be killed by disintegrating it, you can make them an incorporeal undead afterwards. Is that correct?

[Jack_Simth]

Incorporeal is just fine. So you don't need a corpse to make an incorporeal undead?
You do, but there's no requirement of "intact" (unlike for skeletons / zombies). It's unclear whether or not the dust left by disintegrate is technically a corpse, so it's your DM's call and your mileage may vary (an argument for: It works for Resurrection, explicitly).

From what I understand, you can turn someone from one type of undead to another by killing and re-raising them. (Eg kill a zombie, deflesh it and raise a skeleton.) So, if an undead can only be killed by disintegrating it, you can make them an incorporeal undead afterwards. Is that correct?"A destroyed skeleton or zombie can’t be animated again" - straight from Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm), which is probably what you were using to make them.

However... that clause isn't found in Create (Greater) Undead, and is specified via the named templates of Skeleton and Zombie. So you might be able to animate a destroyed Morgh as a Devourer if you've got the caster level for it.

[The Viscount]

What kind of undead are we talking about here? While create greater undead requires a corpse, if you create an incorporeal undead it doesn't matter what state the body is in.

[Ettina]

What kind of undead are we talking about here? While create greater undead requires a corpse, if you create an incorporeal undead it doesn't matter what state the body is in.

I'd like to turn a curst into some kind of incorporeal undead that is less insane and unhappy (like a wraith or something similar). I'm thinking that promising that transformation could make a curst serve the necromancer. The template write-up claims that they can be killed two ways - remove curse, which prevents resurrection; and destroying their body, which says nothing about affecting resurrection. So I'm thinking that the latter option would be the best option, assuming that the random dust/goo/whatever left over counts as a corpse for the purpose of making the incorporeal undead.

[ATHATH]

The Mastery of the Dead feat lets you temporarily raise anyone you kill with a [Death] spell as a ghost that's under your control. Presumably, there are a bunch of [Death] spells that disintegrate/"dust" their victims.

[ksbsnowowl]

The Mastery of the Dead feat lets you temporarily raise anyone you kill with a [Death] spell as a ghost that's under your control. Presumably, there are a bunch of [Death] spells that disintegrate/"dust" their victims.

Unfortunately, as an undead creature, Cursts are immune to [Death] effects.

[Jack_Simth]

Unfortunately, as an undead creature, Cursts are immune to [Death] effects.
So apply Polymorph Any Object first? Works on objects, and changes type.

...

Very flexible spell, actually. If you know what you're doing, there's a very large number of problems that one can solve (including beating up on the bloke in an antimagic field - PaO a very large rock into a pebble, then drop the pebble on him).

[Ettina]

I suppose PAO could probably just turn the curst into a different kind of undead without needing to kill him first, too.

[ksbsnowowl]

I'd like to turn a curst into some kind of incorporeal undead that is less insane and unhappy (like a wraith or something similar). I'm thinking that promising that transformation could make a curst serve the necromancer. The template write-up claims that they can be killed two ways - remove curse, which prevents resurrection; and destroying their body, which says nothing about affecting resurrection. So I'm thinking that the latter option would be the best option, assuming that the random dust/goo/whatever left over counts as a corpse for the purpose of making the incorporeal undead.

If changing the undead's creature listing from Curst to an incorporeal undead will do, then I just re-stumbled upon a semi-perfect answer.

I picked up The Sinister Spire from a used book store today, and recalled there is a weird supernatural disease in it, that can affect both living corporeal creatures (not elementals or outsiders), and undead corporeal creatures. The Ash Doom disease is supernatural, and can even infect Paladins (though Paladins and others normally immune to disease get a +4 bonus on their saves), and inflicts 1d4 Con damage (or 1d4 Charisma damage if the inflicted is undead), with a secondary save to prevent one point from being ability drain instead of damage.

Once the affected ability score reaches 0, the infected's body crumbles to ash, and they become a "Plaguelost," an incorporeal undead that has a 5-foot aura that can infect others with Ash Doom. They also have an incorporeal touch attack that deals damage based on size, plus 1d4 Con damage (1d4 Cha damage to undead), and forces a save to prevent 1 point from becoming drain, just like the Ash Doom disease. Any creature slain by the ability damage rises as another Plaguelost in 1d4 rounds, but is not under the control of the Plaguelost that created it.

The template has various rules concerning what abilities and feats are retained or lost by the newly-created Plaguelost creature, so from a role-play perspective, your NPC Curst may not like losing some of his former abilities. But its certainly an option that might work for you.

Your Necromancer gaining access to the Ash Doom disease to take advantage of it might prove difficult, if you aren't the DM. It only exists in this one module; though, the focus of the module is a Necromancer's tower (the semi-eponymous Sinister Spire).