PDA

View Full Version : L5R: Scorpion Clan, a newb awakens



Nevermore
2007-07-25, 09:24 PM
Ok, since this is the general rpg area I hope this is the right spot to post this...

I recently got invited to a game of Table Top L5R third edition. I saw the core book for the first time today. i read through all the clans and decided that the Scorpion Clan more or less is exactly what I had hoped to play. I love their ideals of extreme loyalty to family, clan and emperor and doing ANYTHING to defend them. I thus decided to play a Scorpion clan Samurai from the Bayushi (sp?) family. My big problem is that I can't seem to grasp what I need to do.

I know i want my character to fight in good armor with a daisho, or atleast a katana. I don't want any other weapons; my character will not do any sneaking or intelligence gathering. I plan on trying to get contacts and retainers to do it for me. My theme is speak softly but precisely, a political dagger between the ribs or a sword stroke only if other means fail.

How i cxan go about this i do not know.

Shisumo
2007-07-25, 09:27 PM
Are you looking for build suggestions?

Nevermore
2007-07-25, 09:39 PM
Yes, and guidance in general

Shisumo
2007-07-25, 10:19 PM
Build suggestions:

Daisho fighting is pretty much a Dragon thing; focus on your katana usage. Kenjutsu 3 (Katana) will cost you a total of 7 CPs, and will (with your school bonuses) get you the perfectly-respectable total of 6k3+3 on your attack rolls. Unless you want to shell out 16 CPs to buy Agility 4 (more than 1/3 your beginning allotment), 6k3+3 is pretty much as good as you're going to get.

The kind of character you want and the Bayushi School both reward a good Air Ring. I'd buy your Reflexes and Awareness both up by 1. That's 24 points total, but it's another 10 points of Insight and allows you to maximize the benefit you get from your first Rank Technique.

Seriously consider buying Quick. It's cheap for Scorps and boosts your Initiative even further.

The "political dagger in the ribs" is what the Courtier Skill (and the Political Manuevering Emphasis, which you get for free) are all about. Drop the 5 points to max that out at 3 as well.

I'd strongly suggest taking Deceit for your "any High or Low Skill" option - it's where the subtle Intimidation stuff that Scorpions are so found of is, and is also an Awareness skill.

Allies and Blackmail are the twin coins of Scorpions who let others do their dirtiest work for them. Dangerous Beauty is a single point, and utterly pays for itself if you already have Deceit. (Note: Awareness 3 + Deceit 3 + Intimidation Emphasis + Dangerous Beauty + Crafty = 9k3+3 for intimidation rolls against the opposite sex...!)

Character suggestions:

Lots of new Scorpion players tend to think that being a Scorpion is license to be jerks - much like the "party thief" who steals from the other PCs and then tries to defend it by claiming to be "in character," the Scorpion Clan's public acknowledgement of villainy is sometimes used as permission to be an ass to the rest of the characters - and even at times the players - around the table.

Don't do this.

Playing a Scorpion requires a great deal of subtlety, but can be incredibly rewarding if done well. Honor, for most Rokugani, is something of a straitjacket - it limits their options, forces their hand. You, however, are free. What the group needs doing, you can do - and the rest need never dirty their hands. Don't use the Scorpion's dishonor as a weapon against your fellow PCs - turn it against the party's enemies, where it will do the most good. Expect some disapproval from some of the other characters - lots of players also think being a Scorpion is excuse enough to mistreat and insult them. Ideally, you will win these characters around in time. If not, consider cutting them out of your good favor, while making it clear that the characters who treat you fairly are still getting your best efforts. (Some sources suggest these characters need to have their pinkies removed while they sleep so they can never again hold a sword. I personally think that's overdoing it, but...)

Remember: to a Scorpion, loyalty counts. That applies to party members just as it does to Clan and Family.

Talk to the GM about the kinds of things that will require people to make Honor checks, and then look for ways to maneuver your enemies into those positions. Not all GMs handle Honor the same way, but if you raise the issue ahead of time, he/she should take the hint and be prepared to give you something to work with. As I said, honor is a straitjacket - once you work things out with your GM, you should start seeing ways to wrap people up in it.

For a Scorpion, knowledge is power. Knowledge of weakness in particular. Always, always ask questions. Get all the info you can.

When you set out to destroy an enemy, be brutal. Living enemies can strike back at you. Dead enemies only strike back at you in the Shadowlands, and that's what the Crab are for. A dead enemy is the only kind of enemy you can safely turn your back on.

The same thing goes for secrets, by the way.

Above all, have fun - and humiliate some Lions for me, will ya?

Nevermore
2007-07-25, 10:41 PM
Good news- I get +1 agility for being of the Baytushi family. So i get the Agility 4...

I understand what you are saying about the Scorpion clan. My views run parallel to yours. It is much like playing Clan Nosferatu in a VtM game- knowledge is power and don't make an ass out of yourself. Nosferatu are known for their blackmail and scathing attitudes so new polayers find themselves in the same boat. My greatest goal is to never even be SUSPECTED of foul play even as the party reaps the benefits of my underhanded manuevering...

I like what I see from the build you offered, and from my limitted knowledge of the system I might have to steal it...

Shisumo
2007-07-25, 10:46 PM
Good news- I get +1 agility for being of the Baytushi family. So i get the Agility 4...

Actually, you start at 2. I was including the Family bonus when I said you'd have a 3.

HidaTsuzua
2007-07-25, 11:05 PM
Third Edition? Sadly that's the edition I haven't used. I don't believe they've made any sweeping changes to the core system so hopefully my advice won't be out of date.

My first advice is to make sure how the GM will do roleplaying and roleplaying related skills like sincerity and etiquette. L5R can sometimes be vague on what goes and doesn't when it comes to roleplaying. Making sure what you take will be useful is the biggest part of being a social character. Sincerity is usually useful. Etiquette can vary wildly on the game. Manipulation (I think third edition has it) will depend if you think you can pull it off effectively. I believe it's mostly based off Awareness so look into rising that. In L5R's XkY system, having high attributes is really nice. I'm unsure if 3rd edition's skill bonuses are worth it or not.

Void points are always good. Look into skills that can recover them, tea ceremony and mediation especially. That way you can be more liberal with them and drink up for 30 minutes. Remember in Rokugan everything takes time. You have time to mediate (who's going to say no?).

Combat in L5R works off the principle of hit first. This is because of penalties you take when hit. Counterattacks will be much harder to pull off once you've taken damage. The scorpion school helps out a great deal here due to their initiative boost. Katanas used to suck, but I've heard you can spend void points on damage with them now.

Advantages and disadvantages have likely been changed. So I won't mention them much. True Friend might be good for you. Avoid bad fortune.

Here's some roleplaying tips. Please please don't play the "I'm the backstabbing scorpion who will chop off your pinkies in your sleep hahahahah!" We've all seen it. Nearly every PC who's a scorpion been like that. You can be a bastard. You can do anything out of a loyalty. Think CIA agent, not crazed mastermind. Also keep your word. You're a samurai. Please have some form of honor.

You'll be talking to NPCs a lot. Get an idea of how the NPCs will typically stack compared to you. Since you're likely going to be starting characters, you're going to be at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of stats and glory. Play to weaknesses or strengths. You'll have to be cunning about what to do. You can catch a NPC in his weak fields if you're smart enough.

Remember that testimony trumps evidence. Support is invaluable (if it's willing or not). It doesn't matter if you catch the real murderer if the issue settled. You don't need investigation skills if you can make people see your view of the world. Social skills and dueling help here.

There's two major things that make Rokugan a very different world than your standard roleplaying world. The first is that you're part of the social order. In most games you exist outside the order. In L5R, you are the order. Call in cops. You'll get glory for leading troops in battle with less risk! If the cops won't help, get their names and numbers so you can shame them once you pull things off.

The second is that you can get any with anything if you fill the forms right. Don't like someone? Get in a duel with them and kill them. Assuming you did it all legal, you'll get praised for it. The enemy's friends and family have to grit their teeth and shake hands with you. Resolve issues with dueling. Remember once a duel is done, the matter is settled. Nothing more can be added. Be sure how the GM views and handles duels. It matters on how often dueling will occur.

So this opens the door for the other kind of social character, the ******* duelist. Be sure to know the dueling rules inside and out if you do this. You need to be a good dueler if you do this. You don't need to be able to do much more if you can duel well.

You can be an ******* if you can kill someone in a duel and have the glory to challenge them. Why? Because you can kill them. You want to kill them. You get glory for it. They die.

Most GMs like to play L5R NPCs as *******s without dueling ability. Kill those. Be sure to know the reputations of the NPCs and if you think you can take them on. Courtiers and Shugenja get champions so talk to the GM about if they can write a letter for one or have to pick from around them. Either way, know your enemy.

If you want a duel or want to settle something with a NPC say "I stake my honor on this." The NPC will have to call you (and duel you) or not (which means they have to go along with what you say).

I have an odds of success of various TN for L5R somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and post it.

Swordguy
2007-07-26, 12:11 AM
Are you playing in Cincinnati, OH, by chance? With a GM called Mike?

(Why I asked is because my wife and I are also involved in that game...)

EDIT: forgot this...if you're a Bayushi, then Combat Reflexes and Quick are, while not auto-wins, are insanely helpful. CR is less useful in melees, but since the Bayushi Bushi is immune to people using CR on them, they've got a better than average chance of going first. And, as mentioned, going first in L5R is the "win" button more often than not.

Swordguy
2007-07-26, 12:13 AM
Third Edition? Sadly that's the edition I haven't used. I don't believe they've made any sweeping changes to the core system so hopefully my advice won't be out of date.


They really have, actually, but that doesn't invalidate your RP advice, which is pretty much spot-on.

Shisumo
2007-07-26, 07:02 AM
A few more things:

Get your weapon skill to 5 ASAP. Not only does it get you a Free Raise to all uses of the skill (-5 TN to your opponent, or +1k0 to damage) but it also reduces wound penalties by your weapon skill rating and nets you two bonus Insight. Plus, at that point, your Emphasis bonus is providing the equivalent of another Free Raise as well.

The Defense Skill is nice, particularly when you have at least 3 ranks in it. At that point, as long as you don't fo Full Attack, it's a permabonus to your TN to be Hit.

With any skills, the break points are 3 ranks, 5 ranks, 7 ranks and 10 ranks, with 5 being usually very important. Those are the ranks where Mastery abilities show up, and they are often very worthwhile. At character creation, any skill you want to be good with you should try to buy up to 3 ranks, and head for 5 as fast as your XP will carry you. In previous editions, the incredible statistical importance of keeping dice over rolling them made Attributes the way to go; these days, however, Skills vs. Attributes is a much more balanced decision.

HidaTsuzua
2007-07-26, 09:51 AM
A few more things:
With any skills, the break points are 3 ranks, 5 ranks, 7 ranks and 10 ranks, with 5 being usually very important. Those are the ranks where Mastery abilities show up, and they are often very worthwhile. At character creation, any skill you want to be good with you should try to buy up to 3 ranks, and head for 5 as fast as your XP will carry you. In previous editions, the incredible statistical importance of keeping dice over rolling them made Attributes the way to go; these days, however, Skills vs. Attributes is a much more balanced decision.

Yeah I remember something like was in it. As long it isn't the abysmal skill keep trait system of 2nd edition (the edition where you can't do anything!). I'm not sure how useful the break point abilities are. My group's system (L7R) uses more contested rolls and free raises to higher ranks to solve 1st Edition's problems.

I will however bet that L5R still has the "too many skills and attributes" issue. Don't be any more well-rounded that you have to be. Know what you want and take those. You can finesse yourself around the other skills and attributes. There's so many of them you can't be good at all of them so don't try.

As for money, it's not that important unless you want it to be. Your daimyo provides for you (that's why you're willing to die for him). Merchants will likely
give you stuff simply so they can say "As used by Samurai!" Once you get known enough, you can also stop by people's places for meals. Never pay for meals again! (Okay doing this is more fun than a way to save money). Money does provide options however. It's your call if you want to take the high road (money are for merchants) or the low road (money is useful).

BlackStaticWolf
2007-07-26, 10:29 AM
I see a lot of advice on character builds for combat and whatnot... that's all well and good (especially the stuff about going first... in L5R, going first is basically the same thing as winning because of the sheer lethality of combat). However, even as a bushi... the Scorpion's main strength isn't fighting.

It's being a dirty, underhanded bastard. Your social and knowledge skills (sincerity, etiquette, and the like) should be very important. I also highly recommend becoming quite skilled at some artistic type skill. Poetry or calligraphy are both quite good. That'll let you acquire some glory for being a skilled artist. The Rokugani respect that.


My greatest goal is to never even be SUSPECTED of foul play even as the party reaps the benefits of my underhanded manuevering...

Hahahaha... yeah... coming from a long time diehard Scorpion player of both the RPG and the CCG... ain't gonna happen. When something sneaky happens, it was the nearest Scorpion that did it, whether he actually did do it or not.

You will be suspected of foul play before anything bad has even occurred. It's the lot of the Scorpion clan. You're the Emperor's Underhand.

The true power of a Scorpion isn't up front. Even as a bushi, you should be coming at enemies in ways they don't expect. YOU should never be challenging anyone to a duel.

If you happen to be challenged (and you will be, because everyone hates the Scorpion), set the conditions in your favor. Set the day and find out who your opponent's favorite geisha is... and have her drug him (shouldn't be too hard seeing as your clan owns 90% of all the Geisha houses in Rokugan last I checked) the night before so that he can't fight effectively.

Even better, demand that your challenger "show you his stance" and proclaim yourself to be the loser (this is not considered dishonorable according to Rokugani dueling rules), and a good Scorpion doesn't care about his own glory. Now, make sure that the guy who beat you gets challenged by other people frequently... and poison/drug his opponents so that he always wins. He'll garner fame, status, and most importantly... he'll have a lot to lose. Now... you arrange (key word here... you have to appear to be uninvolved or you'll be suspected of having set it up) for his cheating to come to light... very, very publicly.

He'll be completely dishonored and his lord, in all likelihood, will order him to commit seppuku. And there ya go... you "lost" a duel. But did your opponent really win?

God, I love the Scorpion clan.


So, I got so wrapped up in being an underhanded rascal that I almost forgot the point I was trying to make: Your combat skills really aren't important if you're dealing primarily with other samurai, because if you're doing your job right, fighting is your last resort. Even then, ideally, you'll be able to work it so that one of the other PCs does your fighting for you.

Nevermore
2007-07-26, 08:05 PM
Heh, I just bought my Scorpion clan deck today...

Anywho, I know combat is not so important, but I know my rpg group. I know atleast one player in the group will probably be still holding a grudge from the Darkside Starwars D20 game we did last semester and try to rub me out... That and I like being able to defend myself if we encounter NPCs that try to kill us.

BlackStaticWolf
2007-07-27, 09:37 AM
Heh, I just bought my Scorpion clan deck today...

Anywho, I know combat is not so important, but I know my rpg group. I know atleast one player in the group will probably be still holding a grudge from the Darkside Starwars D20 game we did last semester and try to rub me out... That and I like being able to defend myself if we encounter NPCs that try to kill us.

Oh yes, by no means should to be a slouch when it comes to actually using that sword you wear. One of the former champions of the Scorpion (Bayushi Shoju) was actually considered to be amongst the finest swordsmen and military tacticians in Rokugan before he staged the infamous Scorpion Clan Coup. Likewise, Shoju's brother, the ninja Aramoro actually secured the clan's return from their exile in the Burning Sands by winning a swordfighting tournament.

As far as combat goes... do everything you can to strike first. I'm unfamiliar with third edition, but the Bayushi Bushi rank 1 technique in both 1st and 2nd edition was essentially a "I go first" ability. Works like a charm for dealing with NPCs.

As for another player... well, like I said: planning. You should never have to actually fight him (and thus put your life at risk).