Karmic Strike build... How do I not die?

[bendking]

So, built a good old Karmic Strike + Robillar's Gambit + Stormguard Warrior build.
How do I not die from my extremely low AC?
And that is without multi-classing any further than Fighter, since my build is already set (Warblade 18/Fighter 2) and I prefer not to make any changes to classes or feats.
Also, there is a Cleric in the party with near full casting (19/20), but he isn't taking Persist nor is he a heal-bot.
Notice a focal point of this build is to indeed take hits, but to be able to withstand such hits. Bumping AC up won't do much good because I want to get hit.
So, with an emphasis on equipment (and possibly spells), how do I not die?

This is what the build looks like so far:
Level 1 (Warblade 1): [1st] - Power Attack, [Human] - Combat Reflexes (CF - Battle Clarity, Weapon Aptitude)
Level 2 (Warblade 1, Fighter 1): [Fighter] - Dodge
Level 3 (Warblade 1, Fighter 2): [Fighter]- Combat Expertise, Karmic Strike
Level 4 (Warblade 2, Fighter 2): (CF - Uncanny Dodge)
Level 5 (Warblade 3, Fighter 2): (CF - Battle Ardor)
Level 6 (Warblade 4, Fighter 2): Elusive Target (must have some Armor of Mobility +1)
Level 7 (Warblade 5, Fighter 2): (CF - Bonus Feat: Ironheart Aura)
Level 8 (Warblade 6, Fighter 2): (CF - Improved Uncanny Dodge)
Level 9 (Warblade 7, Fighter 2): Stormguard Warrior
Level 12 (Warblade 10, Fighter 2): Robillar's Gambit

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Can you get something like Vigor or DR, maybe troll blood?
Some heal potions or a heal-bot follower?

[OldTrees1]

Have you considered only using Robilar's?

Have you considered the Mineral Warrior template to get DR 8/material in exchange for +1LA?

Have you considered using Evasive Reflexes in addition to Combat Reflexes? Then you could opt to use Robilar's Gambit to avoid attacks when you are feeling insecure.

I presume they would have at least a 20% if not a 50% miss chance if they attacked your character.

[Inevitability]

It's hard to beat Troll-Blooded as far as 'cheap survival' goes.

Alternatively, get the party cleric to cast Persisted Delay Death on you. Just watch out for dispels.

[WhamBamSam]

You're a Warblade, so you have access to Wall of Blades and, at higher levels, Manticore Parry. Those will block some attacks for you, though you'll then lose the AoO from Karmic Strike (as it only works on attacks that hit you). It's harder to win the opposed attack roll when using Robilar's Gambit (since it gives the opponent +4 to hit rather than giving you a -4 to AC), but you can block the attack and still get your AoO.

[Metahuman1]

What feats do you have already? And what's your Dex looking like?

How open is your DM to unconventional access to things to help a specific trick?

[Thaneus]

Get melee concealment from either weapon enchant smoking (Lords of Darkness p.180) or Ring of Blinking. So basically 50% no hits is better then forcing the AC up the roof.
Otherwise Phrenic Template LA+2 can give you a lot of AC and immediate saves at will (only advised for buyoff on) and low level AC/saves boosts for minutes (+7 insight AC/saves with defensive precognition +7 shield on force screen).

Wall of Blades is good but iterative attacks wont be blocked, its more for the anti killer move and not blocking the 8 attacks per round from big beasts.

[Firechanter]

This is basically my problem with Retaliation builds.

Mb you can squeeze in that Iron Heart maneuver (6) that heals you for about 25% of your max HP.
Or buy an item that grants you one of the Crusader heals.

Shadow Cloak for immediate action teleport when things are going tits up.

Custom item of continuous Lesser Vigor. (Would be around 4000GP according to guidelines)

Defending Armour Spikes -- only if you can get them buffed with GMW for free, though. Means you can adjust your AC as needed.

[CozJa]

If you have high enough diplimacy, the amulet of peace from SoS may help a lot

[ExLibrisMortis]

Check the build in my signature. It's a mid-level KS build that relies on Improved Trip, Astral Vambraces, Therapeutic Mantle, and Martial Spirit to survive. It's possible to adapt it to a warblade/fighter, but you'll need to find a way to replace the heals, maybe by getting a psionic tattoo of vigour or similar.

[bendking]

What feats do you have already? And what's your Dex looking like?

How open is your DM to unconventional access to things to help a specific trick?

I'm still level 1, just thinking ahead.
This is what the build looks like:
Level 1 (Warblade 1): [1st] - Power Attack, [Human] - Combat Reflexes (CF - Battle Clarity, Weapon Aptitude)
Level 2 (Warblade 1, Fighter 1): [Fighter] - Dodge
Level 3 (Warblade 1, Fighter 2): [Fighter]- Combat Expertise, Karmic Strike
Level 4 (Warblade 2, Fighter 2): (CF - Uncanny Dodge)
Level 5 (Warblade 3, Fighter 2): (CF - Battle Ardor)
Level 6 (Warblade 4, Fighter 2): Elusive Target (must have Armor of Mobility +1)
Level 7 (Warblade 5, Fighter 2): (CF - Bonus Feat: Ironheart Aura)
Level 8 (Warblade 6, Fighter 2): (CF - Improved Uncanny Dodge)
Level 9 (Warblade 7, Fighter 2): Stormguard Warrior
Level 12 (Warblade 10, Fighter 2): Robillar's Gambit

Current Dex is 13, going to bump it to 14 at level 4.
Most likely going to use Mithral Shirt of Mobility so I can get Elusive Target.

Depends which trick, I'll probably be able to get him on board as long as it's not straight up cheese.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Level 1 (Warblade 1): [1st] - Power Attack, [Human] - Combat Reflexes (CF - Battle Clarity, Weapon Aptitude)
Level 2 (Warblade 1, Fighter 1): [Fighter] - Dodge
Level 3 (Warblade 1, Fighter 2): [Fighter]- Combat Expertise, Karmic Strike
Level 4 (Warblade 2, Fighter 2): (CF - Uncanny Dodge)
Level 5 (Warblade 3, Fighter 2): (CF - Battle Ardor)
Level 6 (Warblade 4, Fighter 2): Elusive Target (must have Armor of Mobility +1)
Level 7 (Warblade 5, Fighter 2): (CF - Bonus Feat: Ironheart Aura)
Level 8 (Warblade 6, Fighter 2): (CF - Improved Uncanny Dodge)
Level 9 (Warblade 7, Fighter 2): Stormguard Warrior
Level 12 (Warblade 10, Fighter 2): Robilar's Gambit
Okay, how about this:
- Switch race to azurin (trade human bonus skill points for +1 essentia, doesn't affect anything else).
- Use a flaw (Vulnerable would be perfect) to pick up Shape Soulmeld (Astral Vambraces).

This gets you DR 4/magic right at level 1, which will definitely keep you alive. Later on, monsters will start ignoring DR/magic, but by then, you'll hopefully have a magical solution, such as lots of temporary hp from psionic tattoos (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a) or bodyfeeder weapons. If your DM allows, retraining to another soulmeld can be very effective. I like Mantle of Flame, in keeping with the "hit me and suffer" theme. If you go this route, definitely use Midnight Dodge to qualify for Karmic Strike - it grants you another point of essentia.

[WhamBamSam]

Okay, how about this:
- Switch race to azurin (trade human bonus skill points for +1 essentia, doesn't affect anything else).
- Use a flaw (Vulnerable would be perfect) to pick up Shape Soulmeld (Astral Vambraces).

This gets you DR 4/magic right at level 1, which will definitely keep you alive. Later on, monsters will start ignoring DR/magic, but by then, you'll hopefully have a magical solution, such as lots of temporary hp from psionic tattoos (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a) or bodyfeeder weapons.You could also switch your Fighter 1 Bonus Feat to Combat Expertise, then take Midnight Dodge at 3rd with Karmic Strike as your Fighter Bonus Feat. That'll give you an extra essentia to sink into Astral Vambraces early on, and at later levels when DR/magic stops helping, a different receptacle in which to invest essentia.

[Thomeyis]

Wrathful Healing from Enemies and Allies (Danger, 3.0 material) is a +3 weapon enhancement that heals the user for 1/2 of the damage dealt on all melee attacks. If you power attack for enough, you'll always get the HP you lose back and then some.

[bendking]

Wrathful Healing from Enemies and Allies (Danger, 3.0 material) is a +3 weapon enhancement that heals the user for 1/2 of the damage dealt on all melee attacks. If you power attack for enough, you'll always get the HP you lose back and then some.

That's a good solution, but for pretty late-game.
I need something to help me until a higher level


You could also switch your Fighter 1 Bonus Feat to Combat Expertise, then take Midnight Dodge at 3rd with Karmic Strike as your Fighter Bonus Feat. That'll give you an extra essentia to sink into Astral Vambraces early on, and at later levels when DR/magic stops helping, a different receptacle in which to invest essentia.


Okay, how about this:
- Switch race to azurin (trade human bonus skill points for +1 essentia, doesn't affect anything else).
- Use a flaw (Vulnerable would be perfect) to pick up Shape Soulmeld (Astral Vambraces).

This gets you DR 4/magic right at level 1, which will definitely keep you alive. Later on, monsters will start ignoring DR/magic, but by then, you'll hopefully have a magical solution, such as lots of temporary hp from psionic tattoos (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a) or bodyfeeder weapons. If your DM allows, retraining to another soulmeld can be very effective. I like Mantle of Flame, in keeping with the "hit me and suffer" theme. If you go this route, definitely use Midnight Dodge to qualify for Karmic Strike - it grants you another point of essentia.

1. No flaws allowed.
2. This kind of solution won't be accepted by my DM, since the source material is a bit obscure, and he'll disqualify it on grounds of being too non-core/cheesy.

[ExLibrisMortis]

1. No flaws allowed.
2. This kind of solution won't be accepted by my DM, since the source material is a bit obscure, and he'll disqualify it on grounds of being too non-core/cheesy.
Wait, you can use warblade/Robilar's/KS and qualify for Elusive Target with armour of mobility, but a basic feat from MoI is too cheesy? MoI isn't much more obscure than a ToB/PHBII/CW mashup, and it doesn't get more non-core than Tome of Battle in any case.

(then again, you know your DM best, so it's no use harping on about it)


Non-AC defences are basically all going to be more obscure than Astral Vambraces. KS requires that your enemies hit, so miss chances are right out, and so is hiding, tactical teleportation, or putting up barricades. That leaves stuff like Troll-Blooded, quasilycanthropy, or that Eberron feat chain that grants DR/veryobscurematerial. I suppose you could pick up a symbiont living breastplate with Leadership?

[emeraldstreak]

..You dead.

[Metahuman1]

Buy a collar of perpetual attendance (magic item introduced in the Wizards of the Coast Fabulous Cat's Article, which while an April Fools Day bit is still first party.).

Buy a Tower Shield. Maybe one made from a light material.

Use the collar of perpetual attendance to have the unseen servant spent it's turns using the tower shield to give you full cover.


Enjoy not having to eat those attacks.



If you can afford it, see if you can take 1 level of Monk using the variant fighting styles on the SRD (also found in unearthed Arcana.). Get the one that gives power attack, that frees up a feat.

Use that freed up feat to grab Stone Power. Dropping a few points into it and attacking a lot will let you put a fall of Temp HP between your real HP and damage when your hit.

To further help this, Grab a Necklace of Natural Weapons +1, keyed to Unarmed Strikes, and get someone to greater magic weapon it at the start of the day. Then attach a Greater Adamantine Weapon weapon augmentation crystal form the Magic Item Compendium too it. You now have hardness, which is like DR but harder to get around. 10 points per +1 from the greater magic weapon, and it applies to every attack that lands.


Consider the TWF feat and using the unarmed strike as an off hand weapon, and that feat from miniatures handbook to attack with both TWF weapons when taking out an AoO for free. Sacrifice the off hand attacks for more bonus to hit.

[bendking]

Wait, you can use warblade/Robilar's/KS and qualify for Elusive Target with armour of mobility, but a basic feat from MoI is too cheesy? MoI isn't much more obscure than a ToB/PHBII/CW mashup, and it doesn't get more non-core than Tome of Battle in any case.

(then again, you know your DM best, so it's no use harping on about it)


Non-AC defences are basically all going to be more obscure than Astral Vambraces. KS requires that your enemies hit, so miss chances are right out, and so is hiding, tactical teleportation, or putting up barricades. That leaves stuff like Troll-Blooded, quasilycanthropy, or that Eberron feat chain that grants DR/veryobscurematerial. I suppose you could pick up a symbiont living breastplate with Leadership?

When you put it like that... maybe that is the best option.
Though, the DR will only be 2/Magic until I can invest more Essentia (which I'll get through Midnight Dodge) at level 6 and get it up to 4/Magic.
Following this line of thinking, I'll probably retrain Shape Soulmeld at level 8 or 10 to get Power Attack (since flaws aren't allowed), seeing as the DR will be pretty minute at this point.
But then, what magical means will I have to help me not die?
Wrathful Healing is 3.0 and not re-written, so that's out of the table.
The +1 enchantment for 1d6 temp. HP is pretty bad since it doesn't stack.
Body feeder won't do me good since I'm not a crit-fisher.
Not sure what I'm left with here


Buy a collar of perpetual attendance (magic item introduced in the Wizards of the Coast Fabulous Cat's Article, which while an April Fools Day bit is still first party.).

Buy a Tower Shield. Maybe one made from a light material.

Use the collar of perpetual attendance to have the unseen servant spent it's turns using the tower shield to give you full cover.


Enjoy not having to eat those attacks.



If you can afford it, see if you can take 1 level of Monk using the variant fighting styles on the SRD (also found in unearthed Arcana.). Get the one that gives power attack, that frees up a feat.

Use that freed up feat to grab Stone Power. Dropping a few points into it and attacking a lot will let you put a fall of Temp HP between your real HP and damage when your hit.

To further help this, Grab a Necklace of Natural Weapons +1, keyed to Unarmed Strikes, and get someone to greater magic weapon it at the start of the day. Then attach a Greater Adamantine Weapon weapon augmentation crystal form the Magic Item Compendium too it. You now have hardness, which is like DR but harder to get around. 10 points per +1 from the greater magic weapon, and it applies to every attack that lands.


Consider the TWF feat and using the unarmed strike as an off hand weapon, and that feat from miniatures handbook to attack with both TWF weapons when taking out an AoO for free. Sacrifice the off hand attacks for more bonus to hit.

Those are great suggestions, but like I said, I don't really have much space in the build.
Thanks anyway, though!

[Metahuman1]

Your Welcome. The first idea just requires 2 items and not that much cash, so, should still be workable. =)

[bendking]

Your Welcome. The first idea just requires 2 items and not that much cash, so, should still be workable. =)

Yeah... but there's no way I'm convincing my DM to allow an April Fools joke item.

[weckar]

If you're going to be damaged anyway, Pain mastery may not be a bad option if you qualify. Couples nicely with a source of regeneration or fast healing.

[bendking]

If you're going to be damaged anyway, Pain mastery may not be a bad option if you qualify. Couples nicely with a source of regeneration or fast healing.

I'm extremely feat starved anyway, so I don't think that's a good idea.

[Thurbane]

How much cheese is allowed?

Troll-Blooded feat (Dragon Magazine) plus Crimson Scourge 8 gives immunity to weapon damage (well, weapons that aren't acid or fire).

[bendking]

How much cheese is allowed?

Troll-Blooded feat (Dragon Magazine) plus Crimson Scourge 8 gives immunity to weapon damage (well, weapons that aren't acid or fire).

Very little cheese, I'm afraid.
Pretty strict DM and party.
And I don't have room for the troll-blooded feat in my build anyway, probably, since it also requires toughness.

[Venger]

Very little cheese, I'm afraid.
Pretty strict DM and party.
And I don't have room for the troll-blooded feat in my build anyway, probably, since it also requires toughness.

Since you can't afford more feats and don't want to alter your class levels, the traditional means of becoming immune to nonlethal (e.g. bone knight, pale master, crimson scourge, etc) are not appealing to you.

Use the shriver to obtain regeneration (along with a ton of other really useful bonuses and immunities) and buy a couple of talismans of undying fortitude to gain immunity to nonlethal. Done.

[Inevitability]

Use the shriver to obtain regeneration (along with a ton of other really useful bonuses and immunities) and buy a couple of talismans of undying fortitude to gain immunity to nonlethal. Done.

Surviving a shriver without cheese requires significant build-planning, though.

Maybe ask the cleric to craft a continuous item of Monstrous Regeneration? It's expensive, but does get you what you want.

[Venger]

Surviving a shriver without cheese requires significant build-planning, though.

Maybe ask the cleric to craft a continuous item of Monstrous Regeneration? It's expensive, but does get you what you want.

not really (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?518186-how-to-use-the-shriver) you really only need to survive through round 2. after that, it can no longer kill you. that's doable fairly trivially, even without a lot of special preparations. the shriver's not exactly cheap, but it's better than the alternatives itemwise.

[animewatcha]

Has that been reported as a dysfunction to the chart? Survive three rounds then you are free to go for rest? I don't think that was designer intent.

[Venger]

Has that been reported as a dysfunction to the chart? Survive three rounds then you are free to go for rest? I don't think that was designer intent.

It's not a dysfunction. The entry on the shriver explains how you are free to try to escape when it becomes too much for you and/or you think you won't survive the rest. even though it's not capable of killing you after you survive rounds 1 and 2, if you're not a knight or something, it's still possible to biff your early saves, so you might be inclined to hop out and try again later after putting on some bandaids.

the save dc keeps going up in each subsequent round as well, so if you aren't buffed up enough it's still possible to fail, so it will likely take you several attempts.

[OldTrees1]

Has that been reported as a dysfunction to the chart? Survive three rounds then you are free to go for rest? I don't think that was designer intent.

Ha!

No. You need to not only survive 4 rounds. You need to survive 4 rounds without a single failed save. Regen 1 is granted for surviving 4 rounds without screaming or passing out which entails passing every Fort/Will save.

Is your reward to be free to go for the rest? Hell no! All you earned was the ability to survive the slashing blades as they whisk you away to an eternally deepening slumber. Regen 1 and 2d20 damage per round does not sound like victory even if you technically survive it. What's more, as soon as you fall unconscious you stop gaining additional benefits.

You have to survive 7 rounds without a single failed save or lapsing into unconsciousness. That will grant you Regeneration 3. With Regeneration 3 you have a chance of eventually awakening if you fail. However you will almost certainly end up in an eternal slumber.

There is no dysfunction here. Use the buddy system or "die" trying.

As for the Buddy System "survive 4 rounds* and your golden" that I mention in that thread? The technique merely allows you to try it as many times as necessary. There is no dysfunction in something working when everything goes perfectly after millions of aborted attempts.

*I said survive 3 rounds with enough hp to make the 4th round safe, not guaranteed to win the regen that attempt.