War Caster vs Subtle spell

[Drizztguen]

I'm looking at building a sword and board paladin-sorcerer and I was wondering if taking subtle spell as one of my metamagics would be a good substitute for war caster to get around having my hands full. My DM has already agreed that my arcane focus for sorcerer spells can be attached to my sword or shield.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Doesn't subtle spell require you to spend sorcery points? If it's a choice between that and War Caster as ways to eliminate somatic components, War Caster is obviously far better. On the flip side, a feat is probably more 'expensive' in terms of opportunity cost as compared with a metamagic option, so it's hardly a fair comparison.

[NNescio]

I'm looking at building a sword and board paladin-sorcerer and I was wondering if taking subtle spell as one of my metamagics would be a good substitute for war caster to get around having my hands full. My DM has already agreed that my arcane focus for sorcerer spells can be attached to my sword or shield.

Make your shield your arcane focus (and divine focus). Equip both your sword and shield.

V/S/M spell? Use your shield to perform both S and M.
S/M spell? Do the same.
V spell? Doesn't care if your hands are preoccupied.
V/M spell? (do those exist?). Use your shield for M.
S or V/S spell? Stow your weapon and cast. You just give up your OA, no biggie.

That said, Subtle Spell is still useful for some hijinks (Charm NPC in social situations without getting noticed, teleport out of being bound and gagged, ignore V components in Silenced areas, Counterspell without getting Counterspelled back, etc.) and War Caster lets you maintain concentration better (even with your Con save prof.) and gives you powerful reactions as you can substitute single-target spells for OAs.

[Tetrasodium]

I'm looking at building a sword and board paladin-sorcerer and I was wondering if taking subtle spell as one of my metamagics would be a good substitute for war caster to get around having my hands full. My DM has already agreed that my arcane focus for sorcerer spells can be attached to my sword or shield.


I'd say warcaster all the way, cost & versatility wins hands down.

Subtle spell isn't bad & can be useful from time to time; but it costs a sorcery point & there are probably lots of other stuff you can use those for anyways.
Warcaster: is the feat that everyone knows for " You can perform the somatic components of spells
even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands."; but it has two other very important things that get way more important for frontline casters like the sort of paladin/sorcerer gish that you describe. The first thing WC lets you do is to always have advantage when making concentration checks when you take damage, that can be a huge benefit, but people usually know it because casters do it all the time. The second thing typically gets forgotten is because so many casters are rarely in a position to make use of it for the very same reason you will be... They are squishy & avoid the front lines while you are at least a little crunchy & can tolerate them... that third thing lets you cast a spell with a casting time of 1 action as a reaction if something moves to give you an AoO on it & that can be the difference between poking him with your sword or hitting him & his bud with a line cone or burst spell/some save or suck spell/etc.

[Rysto]

Make your shield your arcane focus (and divine focus).

Shields can't be arcane foci.

[NNescio]

Shields can't be arcane foci.

OP's DM made an exception.


My DM has already agreed that my arcane focus for sorcerer spells can be attached to my sword or shield.

I even specifically bolded that part of his post in my reply.

[gfishfunk]

My DM has already agreed that my arcane focus for sorcerer spells can be attached to my sword or shield.


Shields can't be arcane foci.

Null point.

Anyhow, I full recommend taking a look at which spells you will actually be casting when you play a Paladin to see if you can get away with not having war caster.

Many paladin spells are verbal only, or are most optimal when cast out of combat. Its worth looking before you buy-in to the feat.

[Rysto]

Sorry, my bad.

I'd agree with everybody else. The Sorcery Point cost of Subtle is way too high to try and replace Warcaster with it. Metamagic is the main reason why you'd take Sorcerer levels in the first place.

[Specter]

I say both. But differently.

War Caster is definitely better, if for no other reason than the opportunity attacks with spells. You can either Booming Blade them to hell (an extra 7d8 damage at level 17, in one attack!) or cast something else according to the situation (Hold Person, Suggestion, Banishment, etc.). Aces.

Subtle Spell can be used for those situations where you don't want others to know you cast a spell - and there are plenty in and out of combat. I'd definitely take it, at least at level 10.

[Biggstick]

You definitely want Warcaster first.

Most Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass combinations plan on being SnB with heavy armor and using the Shield spell if someone gets past their precast Blur spell. To cast Shield with both hands full requires Warcaster.

Opportunity attacks become much scarier with Warcaster. Now you have BB/GFB as solid opportunity attacks. You could also use, as the situation calls for It, single target spells like Hold Person or Banishment on creatures provoking opportunity attacks as well.

The advantage on concentration saves is just icing on the cake.

A Paladin/Sorcerer multiclass that plans on using SnB should absolutely grab Warcaster as soon as they can afford to.

[Saggo]

I say both. But differently.

War Caster is definitely better, if for no other reason than the opportunity attacks with spells. You can either Booming Blade them to hell (an extra 7d8 damage at level 17, in one attack!) or cast something else according to the situation (Hold Person, Suggestion, Banishment, etc.). Aces.

Subtle Spell can be used for those situations where you don't want others to know you cast a spell - and there are plenty in and out of combat. I'd definitely take it, at least at level 10.

You can also use Subtle Spell as a poor man's War Caster until you're in a position to get War Caster.

[Drizztguen]

Thanks everyone! I'm a good 4 levels away from taking a feat so I think I'll take the Subtle meta magic first. It should help in some non-combat situations as well.