UA Mystic 3 balance issues for survey

[Foxhound438]

So in this thread I more or less want to figure out what abilities that the mystic has need to be re-balanced. I'm not trying to take a dump on the class, I just have some very basic balance issues with this iteration. I'll start with all of the issues I have here.

The idea is that when it comes time for the survey for this thing, we can already have all of the things that need changed listed out here. Anything you personally don't think is a problem you can feel free to omit from your survey, and I will likely do the same- the idea is that if a lot of people report something as being over or under powered, WOTC will see it pop up a lot and we can keep from having a wonky class go to print.

Oh, and for the love of god make them re-write their psionic mastery, it's an absolute freaking mess to try to read that. I get what they're getting at, and I like it, but god damn if there isn't a better way of writing it.



1) potent psionics: it's not a huge deal, but it gives 2 mutually exclusive cleric features at once. I feel like it should either be a pick one, or be tied to your order like the cleric's is.

2) surge of health: this is pretty much a side grade to uncanny dodge, but it's strictly worse than the planar ranger's version. If that goes to print, I don't think it would be fair to make this one cost your focus to use.

3) immortal will: I really just don't like things that let you get back up from 0 hp ad nausium. It's not as bad as long death monk, but I don't like that one either.

4) breadth of knowledge: both giving you any two skills or tools or languages as opposed to two skills from a list like other orders and being able to change them out every day gives this one a huge edge. The rest of the class isn't at all weaker either, which might be something to defend this ability being so strong, but when they get things like memory of 1k steps giving them strictly better surge of health 3 levels earlier, I don't think they need any kind of skill boost.

5) superior teleportation: 10 feet on teleports feels to me to be a bit week. It's a very small distance that I doubt will make much of a difference.

6) hone the blade: the costs are wonky. 2 for one, then 3 for one, then 2 for 2? seriously, fix the costs on this ability.

7) phantom knife: seeing as how they don't get extra attack, I feel like it's almost no opportunity cost for a potentially huge benefit, when you factor in things like potent psionics and lethal strike. Maybe add a cost for using this.

8) arcane dabbler: this is honestly more of a general complaint of the mechanics of the class overall, but here's my issue: a psion can counterspell a regular caster through this ability, but a regular caster can never counterspell any of a psion's disciplines. It's kind of a weird mechanical decision for the class in that it is the only caster* that can't have its spells* countered or dispelled by anything short of antimagic fields.

9) adaptive shield: strictly worse than absorb elements at a higher cost. Should be boosted in some way.

10) percieve the unseen: needs a specific range, and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't work through cover, but we'll hold off on that until final release.

11) tough hide: there are a lot of AC bonuses available to the class, and this is one of them that might put it over the top. If the bestial transformation required concentration like shield of faith does, it would be fine.

12) breath of the black dragon: for the cost of lightning bolt, it should have the damage of a lightning bolt.

13) psychic parry: it's as powerful as something like diamond soul or indomitable, but you get access to it from 1st level. Not sure how I would fix this one.

14) mantle of command: this is less balance and more of a play issue. If you're commanding NPC's it's fine to have you chose how they act, but I feel that choosing actions for other players is absolute bull****.

15) incite fury: the effect is on par with Crusader's mantle (3rd level spell) but only costs 2 psi (equivalent to 1st level). Price needs to go up.

16) cloak of air: it's strictly better blur

17) watery grasp: the huge area makes it more akin to a 2nd level spell than a 1st, and thus should cost 3 psi

18) nomadic mind focus: this basically gives proficiency in all skills and all tools and all languages on its own since you can change focus from and back to this for free. absolutely broken.

19) find creature: strictly better than locate creature, the 4th level spell, and you can do this from level 1. absolutely busted.

20) augmented weapon: the equivalent of a 3rd level slot for what any other caster would need to spend a 6th level slot to do. I seriously have doubts as to whether or not it's intentional that WOTC keeps undercutting the price on this.

21) psychic blast: the area and damage of a cone of cold at the equivalent of 2 spell levels lower, on a harder save and a better damage type. can't increase the cost much, so the damage has to go down.

22) mind storm: barely under fireball damage with a harder save and a potentially crippling tack on. it's probably fine if you drop to d6's instead of d8's, which I think is what it was supposed to be, considering that it scales in d6's for some reason...

General issue: this class has the ability to cast* two spells* on their turn, using action and bonus action, which is unlike any existing class. My fix: "if you use a talent or discipline ability with your bonus action, you can't use another discipline ability that requires your action, but can use talents normally." This brings it in line with the existing spellcasting rules. forgive me if that's in there somewhere, there's a lot of text and it's quite possible I missed it if it's in there.



Just to reiterate, I'm not hating on the class, I'm just trying to point out some discrepancies (mostly in the area of costing effects, apparently).

[Llama513]

My main worry is that this class looks like it is going to mean the death of monk, unless monk is seriously revamped, or Mystic has its abilities adjusted so that they don't overlap as much with what monk does

[Foxhound438]

My main worry is that this class looks like it is going to mean the death of monk, unless monk is seriously revamped, or Mystic has its abilities adjusted so that they don't overlap as much with what monk does

I don't personally think that'll be an issue, but I haven't looked at any specific builds yet. I definitely see what you're getting at with all of the mobility and control they get, but I feel that being so dependant on a long rest resource will make them side grade to monks at best.

[Flashy]

Mastery of Light and Darkness's ability to summon two Shadows as a 2nd level spell equivalent strikes me as probably too strong as well. Especially since it brings back the "player characters create a Shadow apocalypse" problem.

[Llama513]

I don't personally think that'll be an issue, but I haven't looked at any specific builds yet. I definitely see what you're getting at with all of the mobility and control they get, but I feel that being so dependant on a long rest resource will make them side grade to monks at best.

I could see that, if the monks abilities kept up with what a Mystic can do in terms of versatility, damage, or survivability but they don't they loose in every category, and conceptually you can run many of the archetypes as if you were a monk

[SilverStud]

You know what gets my goat? I don't like how Soul Knife spits in the face of Bladelocks everywhere. These guys get Wolverine claws that are 1d8 finesse, AND a parry reaction??? Oh, and it only takes a bonus action to summon the knives. Just rub some salt on Warlock's wounds, why dontchya.

[KorvinStarmast]

To find out the balance issues IMO will take quite a bit of play testing, but they'll want feedback next week.

Uh, I think it will take a bit more time than that, even accounting for a lot of very energetic theory crafting and analysis by people with system expertise.

My concern is the stacked concentration that happens at level 11 and higher.

Nobody else gets to stack concentration. We already have a thread for some of the attempts at exploiting that set up.
Psionic Mastery arrives at level 11:

If more than one of the disciplines you activate with these points require concentration, you can concentrate on all of them. <= IMO, this breaks the 5e design model on concentration. And it's not just one stack, it's multiple.

Activating one of them ends any effect you were already concentrating onBig deal, happens to all changes in concentration.

, and if you begin concentrating on an effect that doesn’t use these special points, the disciplines end that you’re concentrating on.
Then use special points for your stacks! Duh.

At 15th level, the pool of psi points you gain from this feature increases to 11. You have one use of this feature, and you regain any expended use of it with a long rest. You gain one additional use of this feature at 13th, 15th, and 17th level.
While you can burn out your psi points in a hurry, four uses of this stack buffy feature, would likely have burned you out before the fourth, in terms of stacking.

[Bahamut7]

On a side note, it seems like they threw all possible paths at once. There is nothing saying that Psionics may not just become sub classes in the end, as a few parts seem like they would be better as sub classes. Most likely, they will remain a class with a wide array of possible paths so anyone can find a Psychic that fits their character. I can't offer any particular advice for the survey yet, but I have already submitted 2 questions to Crawford in regards to the Soul Knife. Mainly can the Psi Knives be counted as Slashing or Piercing damage and do they grant TWF as the fluff heavily implies it.

[KorvinStarmast]

1. Mainly can the Psi Knives be counted as Slashing or Piercing damage and Damage type is Psychic. If we head to PHB to read up on damage types, it is neither slashing nor piercing.

2. do they grant TWF as the fluff heavily implies it.
That's how I read it, but as we see in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21807799&postcount=23)(and the surrounding discussion) the writing could be clearer and I think that's a question that ought to be cleared up.

[Firemaster]

One thing I am of the opinion of is that since the power of the Mystic comes from its flexibility in choices, largely most options should be slightly weaker or more expensive than the equivalent effect another class would have (sort of like in MTG if you have a card with two or three options on it, the card costs more mana than you would pay for any one of those effects, but because of the flexibility given its fair for that card).

So, as my one bit of quick feedback on your feedback, I am fine with Breath of the Black Dragon doing less damage than lightning bolt (making it 7d6 at base might be all right).

[Submortimer]

You know what gets my goat? I don't like how Soul Knife spits in the face of Bladelocks everywhere. These guys get Wolverine claws that are 1d8 finesse, AND a parry reaction??? Oh, and it only takes a bonus action to summon the knives. Just rub some salt on Warlock's wounds, why dontchya.

Nah, don't worry your pretty head. This is UA, which means we have to include the benefits that the bladelock got from UA as well, and he is NOT overshadowed.

Comparison
(Note: I am assuming you can TWF with Soulknives, but not that you get the TWF style)

For a standard round, assuming the Soulknife has the Psychic Weapon Discipline and spends 12 psi points to activate Hone the Blade and Augmented Weapon AND has a dex of 20, you're looking at 3d8+12+1d8+7, or 37 avg damage. Instead of the TWF attack, he can Lethal Strike for 7 points, doing 3d8+12+7d10 damage, or 64 avg. His AC is likely 18 (studded leather + 5 dex + 1 Dual wielder), except on rounds where he parries.

For a strength fiend bladelock, assuming variant Human (for Medium armor and shields) and spending one feat on heavy armor, we get 20 strength and 20 charisma. Assuming you have thirsting blade, lifedrinker, the +3 bladelock invocation, and you cast hex, you can hit for 4d6+26+2d6, or 47 avg. damage. Alternatively, you can also take mace of dispater and hit for 2d6+26+2d6+10d8 when you burn a spell slot, or 85 avg. damage. You can boost that by another 45 damage if you burn a second slot. Hexblade makes this whole thing even MORE gross.

Trust me, us bladelock fans have NOTHING to worry about. :smallsmile:

[DracoKnight]

Exactly everything Submortimer just said. Soulknife in no wa my treads over the Bladelock's toes. If anything magical B/P/S damage is much better than psychic damage, and Bladelocks get all the other goodies he pointed out.

[ChaosOS]

To find out the balance issues IMO will take quite a bit of play testing, but they'll want feedback next week.

Uh, I think it will take a bit more time than that, even accounting for a lot of very energetic theory crafting and analysis by people with system expertise.

My concern is the stacked concentration that happens at level 11 and higher.

Nobody else gets to stack concentration. We already have a thread for some of the attempts at exploiting that set up.
Psionic Mastery arrives at level 11:
<= IMO, this breaks the 5e design model on concentration. And it's not just one stack, it's multiple.
Big deal, happens to all changes in concentration.

Then use special points for your stacks! Duh.

While you can burn out your psi points in a hurry, four uses of this stack buffy feature, would likely have burned you out before the fourth, in terms of stacking.

Thing is, it's literally the only direct power level improvements you get after 10th level other than another +7 points at level 17. Other than that you're just gaining more disciplines and talents known, while the other full casters keep scaling past 5th tier spells and learn things like Foresight and Wish

[MeeposFire]

Also note that damage dice are generally better than straight damage bonuses due to how criticals work (unless the bonus is much larger than the dice average).

Also while accuracy is great it is not as powerful when you are not using it for things that give large amounts of damage like great weapon fighting. Also doing all of this uses your action economy and your points which means you are eating into your ability to put out nova damage as well especially over the course of the day. What this does show is that the mystic has the same issue as some other classes where it gets a LOT better if you can make yourself have less encounters per day. The more you do in a day the more you have to compromise.

[Stan]

My concern is the stacked concentration that happens at level 11 and higher.


On the hand, mystic powers never go beyond the equivalent of 5th level spells. There are quite a few powerful spells of level 6+ that other caster classes get. Does the ability to concentrate on multiple powers overshadow high level spells? Possible but unlikely. I'd have to see some possible examples that make high level mystics either untouchable or deities of destruction.

[Flashy]

On the hand, mystic powers never go beyond the equivalent of 5th level spells. There are quite a few powerful spells of level 6+ that other caster classes get. Does the ability to concentrate on multiple powers overshadow high level spells? Possible but unlikely. I'd have to see some possible examples that make high level mystics either untouchable or deities of destruction.

I tried to find combinations. I listed the number of psi points each combo costs to emphasize the level it's available at.


Microscopic Form + Ogre Form: Requires some favorable interpretation but +5 AC, +10 on stealth checks, + 5 feet of reach, +1d4 damage on all melee attacks, and who knows how big you actually are. Lasts for 10 minutes, costs you 9 psi points.
Strategic Mind + Pillar of Confidence: You rule the action economy (for a turn). Bless that grants Cunning Action and one round of Haste without the downside for all allies. Costs you 11 psi points.
Augmented Weapon + Faithful Archer: Any bow becomes a +3 weapon and you make one extra attack every round no action required. This would be really[/] strong if this were an extra attack class, potent psionics could trigger more than once a turn, and you didn't have to dump 15 levels into Mystic to activate 10 points worth of powers with Psionic Mastery. Lasts a minute, costs you 10 psi points.
Just blow all the points on Psionic Blast for 11d8 unavoidable damage? Average 50 unavoidable damage 4 times a day is pretty neat?
Shadow Beasts multiple times doesn't appear to be allowed? You can't activate the same power multiple times? That's probably for the best, this one really [I]would be broken.


Basically I'm not seeing it. All the really powerful stuff (multiple elementals at the same time, multiple huge buffs, etc) costs more than the 11 point max you'll ever be able to spend on the ability at once. Since the wording seems to prevent the mystic from casting other concentration effects on top of the Psionic Mastery concentration I doubt it's terribly broken. If someone else can find something more broken I'll be interested to see it though!


It's also worth pointing out, it's more limited than being able to concentrate on multiple powers. It's being able to concentrate on at most two 3rd level spells or one fifth level spell and one second level spell. I didn't realize that until I tried to build actual combos.


EDIT: Animate [Any] + Shadow Beasts is arguably sort of broken, but I'd argue that's more about Shadow Beasts being grossly underpriced than anything else.

[Jerrykhor]

Nomadic Mind's Focus ability wouldn't be so broken if a Focus cannot be changed willy nilly. Its not an issue at low levels, but when the Mystic gains more Disciplines, he gets more Focus options, and soon he can switch Focus like pressing buttons in a video game.

Focus should only be allowed to change on a short or long rest. Its also in the name; how is it a 'focus' if you can change it anytime you want?

[Mjolnirbear]

Psionic Mastery rewording:

You gain X mastery points. You can spend them like psi points, except:

* your Psi limit does not apply
* when only mastery points are spent, you can concentrate on multiple disciplines, which counts as one concentration for purposes such as concentration being broken by damage
* you can only spend psi points or mastery points on a discipline, never both at once

[Dromuthra]

Mastery of Light and Darkness's ability to summon two Shadows as a 2nd level spell equivalent strikes me as probably too strong as well. Especially since it brings back the "player characters create a Shadow apocalypse" problem.

Can confirm, using this at 3rd level was ridiculous, and I even nerfed it down personally to just summon 1. I'd say that it should just have its cost increased to 5 PP. Also, Exacting Query and Forceful Query are nearly the same, though Exacting Query is almost strictly better, which seems unnecessary and odd. I'd rather see Exacting Query moved to Inquisition and something else put into Telepathic Contact.

As a minor editing note, Darkness doesn't have a duration or concentration requirement on it, so technically you can blanket the world in darkness. It also isn't magic, as per the confirmation earlier, so I'm not even sure light spells would actually suppress or remove it.

[JackOfAllBuilds]

Mystical Recovery uses a bonus action to recover HP equal to Psi points spent immediately before on a discipline. Except so many disciplines already eat up your bonus action. Too much competition on action economy.

The discipline options to add X d10's to attacks used to be free action and after hit like smite. Now you have to spend bonus action to bet on hitting this turn, possibly wasting points.

Lastly Psi Points should just be Ki

[Foxhound438]

Psionic Mastery rewording:

You gain X mastery points. You can spend them like psi points, except:

* your Psi limit does not apply
* when only mastery points are spent, you can concentrate on multiple disciplines, which counts as one concentration for purposes such as concentration being broken by damage
* you can only spend psi points or mastery points on a discipline, never both at once

thank you. this is a lot easier to comprehend.

[Theodoxus]

As a minor editing note, Darkness doesn't have a duration or concentration requirement on it, so technically you can blanket the world in darkness. It also isn't magic, as per the confirmation earlier, so I'm not even sure light spells would actually suppress or remove it.

I didn't see the confirmation you note, but the description specifically says 'magical darkness' - so how it could be ruled anything but magical is beyond me. It also specifies the level of light spells required to dispel it... though without Conc or duration, you are absolutely correct regarding blanketing the world in darkness - even continual light couldn't dispel it...


Lastly Psi Points should just be Ki

The only problem I have with making them Ki, is a 4th level Mystic/Monk 3 would have as much ki as a 20th level monk, and it would only increase from there. By 9th level (4 My/5 Mo), they'd be able Stunning Strike 22 times a day at a minimum (with 5 Ki recharging on a short rest).

I get that Mystics currently aren't built to MC, but everyone would want to the moment their powersource becomes Ki.

I fear if you went the other direction, providing Mystics with Ki = Mystic Level, as per Monk, and make them short rest rechargeable, you've basically just rebuilt Warlock on a psychic chassis. It would massively depower Mystics (not sure that's a bad thing)... though really, I think it's the stepping on the Warlock schtick more than anything that feels wrong.

[Theodoxus]

Things I'd rewrite

1) Potent Psionics: I'd split it off the main class and roll it into each Order at 8th level. Immortal and Soul Knife get weapon damage, everyone else gets talent damage.

2) Psionic Mastery: It's not timestop. You don't get to take an action to pull 9-11 "Master Psi Points" out of your wherevers and then instantly use them as part of that action to manifest 1-11 Disciplines provided they use an Action or Bonus Action to manifest, Concentration limits be damned. It's mimicking Mystic Arcanum, but allowing you to 'blow your wad' on a bunch of lower level "spells" instead of a 6-9th level one... I'd at least add a clause that you have to go "Super Sayan" and not unleash the pool of MPPs until the next round. Overchanneling your Psi Limit to nuke your competition should be a little tiring...

3) Soul Knife - Parry should be a reaction akin to the Shield spell that lasts until your next round. Granting them martial weapon proficiency but forcing them to twin their knives seems odd - I'd rewrite that to allow them to manifest a single blade (keeping it light and finesse) and can use their offhand for a martial weapon or shield (if they obtain proficiency) - but Parry can only be used with 2 blades (and a reaction as above).
"For you, a soul knife is a martial melee weapon with the light and finesse properties. It deals 1d8+Dex/Str mod psychic damage on a hit." Just for clarity.

4) Specific Disciplines... far too many omissions and grammar issues to list - but nearly all of them could use another pass or seven through an edit review.

[Dromuthra]

I didn't see the confirmation you note, but the description specifically says 'magical darkness' - so how it could be ruled anything but magical is beyond me. It also specifies the level of light spells required to dispel it... though without Conc or duration, you are absolutely correct regarding blanketing the world in darkness - even continual light couldn't dispel it...


Ah, I meant the earlier confirmation that psionics =/= magic. And I genuinely missed that it specified magical, though it actually specifies the light that it dispels, not the light required to dispel it. It should be ruled as equivalent to the Darkness spell, but it doesn't actually say that it can be depressed, and doesn't have a spell level to be attributed to it for the purposes of other effects that cancel certain spell levels of magical darkness.

[Zalabim]

Psionic Mastery doesn't let you exceed your Psi Limit. It also does not appear to be time stop. It just gives you points. You still have to spend them normally, within the restrictions and benefits of Psionic Mastery. It really does need to be rewritten for clarity though.

[Theodoxus]

Ah, I meant the earlier confirmation that psionics =/= magic. And I genuinely missed that it specified magical, though it actually specifies the light that it dispels, not the light required to dispel it. It should be ruled as equivalent to the Darkness spell, but it doesn't actually say that it can be depressed, and doesn't have a spell level to be attributed to it for the purposes of other effects that cancel certain spell levels of magical darkness.

Found this gem: Duration (page 9) An effect option in a discipline specifies how long its effect lasts.
Instantaneous. If no duration is specified, the effect of the option is instantaneous.

So, Darkness just went from 'Cover the world OP' to 'useless' with an instantaneous duration.


Psionic Mastery doesn't let you exceed your Psi Limit. It also does not appear to be time stop. It just gives you points. You still have to spend them normally, within the restrictions and benefits of Psionic Mastery. It really does need to be rewritten for clarity though.

I was mostly remarking on how others have been trying to interpret it as RAW. I agree that it should work the way you describe - hence why I wrote what I did. But there are others who imply the timestop mechanic to it.

[Theodoxus]

Psi Limit: There is a limit on the number of psi points you can spend in a round to activate psionic discipline abilities

[JackOfAllBuilds]

I didn't see the confirmation you note, but the description specifically says 'magical darkness' - so how it could be ruled anything but magical is beyond me. It also specifies the level of light spells required to dispel it... though without Conc or duration, you are absolutely correct regarding blanketing the world in darkness - even continual light couldn't dispel it...



The only problem I have with making them Ki, is a 4th level Mystic/Monk 3 would have as much ki as a 20th level monk, and it would only increase from there. By 9th level (4 My/5 Mo), they'd be able Stunning Strike 22 times a day at a minimum (with 5 Ki recharging on a short rest).

I get that Mystics currently aren't built to MC, but everyone would want to the moment their powersource becomes Ki.

I fear if you went the other direction, providing Mystics with Ki = Mystic Level, as per Monk, and make them short rest rechargeable, you've basically just rebuilt Warlock on a psychic chassis. It would massively depower Mystics (not sure that's a bad thing)... though really, I think it's the stepping on the Warlock schtick more than anything that feels wrong.

Monks at 20 get 20 Ki per short rest, so 60 Ki on an average adventuring day. A monk 7 is equal to a monk 3/mystic 4, in that you get 7 Ki s/r reset for an average of 21. So it seems fine

[Malifice]

Psionic Mastery doesn't let you exceed your Psi Limit. It also does not appear to be time stop. It just gives you points. You still have to spend them normally, within the restrictions and benefits of Psionic Mastery. It really does need to be rewritten for clarity though.

Then why is it an action?

Why don't you just simply get a separate pool of Power Point for this use?

[Zalabim]

Then why is it an action?

Why don't you just simply get a separate pool of Power Point for this use?

Maybe it's to mimic the longer casting time of powerful spells like Symbol, Contingency, and Foresight. I don't know. What they have does a really poor job of conveying their intention.

As to why it's not just a separate pool, it isn't one pool of up to 44 points, it would be up to four pools of 11 points each, along with your normal pool of 71, all tracked separately and unable to be mixed. The whole ability needs a few more drafts to put out anything that makes sense.

[Malifice]

Maybe it's to mimic the longer casting time of powerful spells like Symbol, Contingency, and Foresight. I don't know. What they have does a really poor job of conveying their intention.

As to why it's not just a separate pool, it isn't one pool of up to 44 points, it would be up to four pools of 11 points each, along with your normal pool of 71, all tracked separately and unable to be mixed. The whole ability needs a few more drafts to put out anything that makes sense.

Yet surely every mystic is going to spend an action first thing in the morning to simply get the PP?

Why make it an action cost? It doesn't make any sense.

I think it is fairly clear that you use your action for psionic mastery and then you get the PP and then to choose the powers that to activate, and then activate them, all as part of the same action.

[Zalabim]

I think it is fairly clear
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, especially about this part.

[Matrix_Walker]

Psi Limit: There is a limit on the number of psi points you can spend in a round to activate psionic discipline abilities

Are you suggesting a change? the Description of PSI Limit says "There is a limit on the number of psi points you can spend to activate a psionic discipline." So that's per discipline activation, not per round.

[KorvinStarmast]

@Potent Psionics:
At that level, and beyond, with the HP monsters have, I don't see a 4 or 5 pt damage add to be significant. Non issue.

@Surge of Health
I like it as is. Being able to prevent death is a nice thing, but having a consequence/cost is not a bad thing.

@Immortal Will
At that level, you con mod +14 is about, or less than, the average damage form one attack you'll be likely to face from CR 14 and above monsters. All that you do is you spend the resources, not a party member, to get you back into the fight. Not a big deal.

[Matrix_Walker]

Psionic Mastery doesn't let you exceed your Psi Limit. It also does not appear to be time stop. It just gives you points. You still have to spend them normally, within the restrictions and benefits of Psionic Mastery. It really does need to be rewritten for clarity though.

Psi Limit caps out at 7, and Psionic Mastery states "You can use all 9 points on one discipline, or you can spread them across multiple disciplines." So clearly you can ignore the Psi limit cap for Psionic Mastery

[Chaosvii7]

General issue: this class has the ability to cast* two spells* on their turn, using action and bonus action, which is unlike any existing class. My fix: "if you use a talent or discipline ability with your bonus action, you can't use another discipline ability that requires your action, but can use talents normally." This brings it in line with the existing spellcasting rules. forgive me if that's in there somewhere, there's a lot of text and it's quite possible I missed it if it's in there.

Not necessarily a bad point of balancing, especially considering that this class - while it has a lot of options out of the gate - doesn't feel like it's got a lot of psionic abilities on-par with some of the higher level spells. Besides, it gives a point of uniquieness to Psionic characters ; They can perform two tricks a round but their psionic abilities aren't as strong as your typical spell.

I do see a lot of unique effects, but one thing that strikes me is that every discipline that has a damaging ability typically doesn't exceed 7 damage dice, based on the amount of psi points used to invest in an ability. So for one, their damage isn't as straight-up powerful as a blaster, and I don't see any potent save-or-sucks or save-or-dies among them. These discipline abilities strike me as being somewhere between one and a half cantrips and souped-up martial maneuvers in terms of power level.

[Theodoxus]

Are you suggesting a change? the Description of PSI Limit says "There is a limit on the number of psi points you can spend to activate a psionic discipline." So that's per discipline activation, not per round.

Sorry, yes, it was kind of implied by the thread title and posts... but yeah, this is a change I would suggest.

However, after I went to bed last night, I realized that it should be 'per turn' not per round. Otherwise if you blow your allotment of Psi Points on an attack and bonus attack, you'd have nothing left for a reaction that you couldn't presume to know coming against you.

If a Wizard can always throw up Shield (given slots remaining and not having used their reaction, of course) then a Mystic should always be able to initiate a reaction power (given PPs remaining and not having used their reaction, of course).

Per Turn does open up some potential shenanigans, but hardly the kind currently available with an open ended 'blow all 71 PPs on a recursive Bestial Claws attack to deal 71d10 to a boss in a single round as you frenzy flurry silly slap the crap out of a dragon or somesuch...

[Mortis_Elrod]

Per Turn does open up some potential shenanigans, but hardly the kind currently available with an open ended 'blow all 71 PPs on a recursive Bestial Claws attack to deal 71d10 to a boss in a single round as you frenzy flurry silly slap the crap out of a dragon or somesuch...

Well that just needs to be an action BUT don't forget to add str damage. it IS a melee weapon attack after all.

[DracoKnight]

"For you, a soul knife is a martial melee weapon with the light and finesse properties. It deals 1d8+Dex/Str mod psychic damage on a hit." Just for clarity.

This is literally what the finesse property DOES. You don't need to say STR/DEX after saying something has the finesse property.

EDIT: Now it's my turn to feel like an @$$ because the way you wrote it essentially gives them the TWF Style :smalltongue:

[Mortis_Elrod]

This is literally what the finesse property DOES. You don't need to say STR/DEX after saying something has the finesse property.

EDIT: Now it's my turn to feel like an @$$ because they way you wrote it essentially gives them the TWF Style :smalltongue:

Which of course we'd wan them to have, but i agree that there's no need to be redundant. Its a weapon. Just because it does psychic damage doesn't mean you don't add your mod for damage.

[Foxhound438]

I think it is fairly clear that you use your action for psionic mastery and then you get the PP and then to choose the powers that to activate, and then activate them, all as part of the same action.

any interpretation other than this I think would severely gimp the mystic compared to high level casters.



I do see a lot of unique effects, but one thing that strikes me is that every discipline that has a damaging ability typically doesn't exceed 7 damage dice, based on the amount of psi points used to invest in an ability. So for one, their damage isn't as straight-up powerful as a blaster, and I don't see any potent save-or-sucks or save-or-dies among them. These discipline abilities strike me as being somewhere between one and a half cantrips and souped-up martial maneuvers in terms of power level.

I would recommend that you give it another once-over, they definitely have at least 2 attack spells* that go up to 10 dice over a large area, and multiple effects that can stun, paralyze, blind or otherwise gimp multiple targets. They don't get save or die effects, but they definitely get a number of save or suck options.