Is Tomato A Fruit Or Vegetable?

[Bartmanhomer]

The classic debate that has been past down in generations. Is Tomato a fruit or vegetable? My opinion is that a tomato has always been a vegetables since forever. There's no way it's a fruit. It's doesn't taste like a fruit so it's got to be a vegetable. That's my opinion. What's your opinion?

[DataNinja]

Is it a fruit or a vegetable?

Yes. Yes it is.


More seriously, it is technically a fruit, along with other things we may not normally consider fruits, such as, according to a cursory search, bean pods, corn kernels, and wheat grains. 'Fruit' classification isn't based on taste, but rather how it's produced, as the "seed-bearing structure in flowering plants formed from the ovary after flowering." Tomatoes fall into this category.

[Aedilred]

In technical terms, I don't think anyone can really dispute that a tomato is a fruit. In culinary terms, inasmuch as that's a separate thing, it's debatable.

Tomato is eaten like a vegetable, but if you rid yourself of preconceptions about how it should be eaten, its fruit-like nature becomes much more obvious and apparent. They're soft and sweet and can be happily eaten raw and have seeds inside and that suggests a fruit. There's no particular reason you couldn't eat tomatoes like other fruit, and indeed some strains are eaten as such, often in baby form. We've just got into the habit of using them in a different way.

As with the burger thread, there is an element of expectation and context about it. If you ask for a fruitbowl and someone brings you a bowl of tomatoes, that's not great. But then realistically you'd probably react in the same way if someone brought you a bowl of lemons or limes, and nobody's calling them vegetables.

More controversial, I think, are courgettes (or zucchini if you prefer) and their larger relatives.

[Razade]

This isn't a debate. Tomatoes are a fruit. They are used in culinary things as a vegetable. Same as peppers. Peppers are a fruit, they're used in cooking as a vegetable.

[Strigon]

They're juicy, sweet, and can be eaten all on their lonesome or turned into a food additive.
They're definitely a fruit, just one that needs to be treated differently.

[Mister Loorg]

Sure these guys have lame things like science to back up that tomatoes are fruit, but I have much better evidence, proving that a tomato is a vegetable.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/veggietalesitsforthekids/images/9/9d/Bob_(Classic_on_2004).jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130411024616

[Peelee]

A fruit is a biologic as long word. A vegetable is a culinary word. There is no mutual exclusion. A food can be both, as evidenced by the tomato or peppers, like Razade said.

There are no opinions on this. Its like having an opinion on if fish are animals.

[Aedilred]

I think the issue here is actually not so much over whether a tomato is a fruit (it is) but the definition of "vegetable". Fruit is an identifiable part of the plant with a botanical definition, but "vegetable" is much more broad. We kind of take it for granted but it's a weird paraphyletic class of objects, the only common factors being that they are edible plant matter, and no clear definition for exclusion.

Cabbage (a leaf) is a vegetable.
Potato (a root) is a vegetable.
Courgette (fruit) is a vegetable.
Peas (seeds) are vegetables.
Onion (bulb) is a vegetables.

It's a garbage-bin taxon. But for some reason we've decided to arbitrarily exclude some items from some of these categories and reclassify them as something else: in this case, fruit. There is no unifying factor except custom and arguably, manner of eating. That being the case, I think the tomato can be considered to straddle both categories.

[SaintRidley]

Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. Charisma is the ability to sell a tomato-based fruit salad.

[Astral Avenger]

From the almighty Google:

fruit
fro͞ot
noun
1.
the sweet and fleshy product of a tree or other plant that contains seed and can be eaten as food.
"tropical fruits such as mangoes and papaya"
veg·e·ta·ble
ˈvejtəb(ə)l,ˈvəjədəb(ə)l/ (thats so many rotated 'e's that i feel like google is trolling)
noun
1.
a plant or part of a plant used as food, typically as accompaniment to meat or fish, such as a cabbage, potato, carrot, or bean.
"fresh fruit and vegetables"
2.
informal
a person with a dull or inactive life.
"I thought I'd sort of flop back and be a vegetable for a bit"

As the second definition isn't relevant for vegetable, clearly a tomato is both. Unless its one of the poisonous tomatoes, in which case it should not be eaten as food or used as food and is neither. On the other hand, if you play World of Tanks, a tomato is quite likely to be a vegetable(2) without being a fruit.

Also, I had to look up the definition of paraphylectic, thank you Aedilred for helping expand my vocabulary.
Edit: Fun spell check misidentification of the day: paraphylectic -> prophylactic.

[Razade]

Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. Charisma is the ability to sell a tomato-based fruit salad.

Isn't Guacamole a fruit salad? It uses tomato.

[Peelee]

I think the issue here is actually not so much over whether a tomato is a fruit (it is) but the definition of "vegetable". Fruit is an identifiable part of the plant with a botanical definition, but "vegetable" is much more broad. We kind of take it for granted but it's a weird paraphyletic class of objects, the only common factors being that they are edible plant matter, and no clear definition for exclusion.

Hmmmm. Would you consider mushrooms vegetables?

[Aedilred]

Isn't Guacamole a fruit salad? It uses tomato.

It's not really a tomato-based fruit salad, though. But avocado is also a fruit. I've never heard it called a fruit salad, anyway.



Hmmmm. Would you consider mushrooms vegetables?
Probably not, but that's not a hill I want to die on.

[Razade]

It's not really a tomato-based fruit salad, though. But avocado is also a fruit. I've never heard it called a fruit salad, anyway.

And it has lime as a major ingredient too. The only thing not a fruit in it is the onion.

[LaZodiac]

A fun fact also is that Tomato are part of the deadly nightshade family, a family of extremely poisonous plant life that'll kill you dead. But only if you eat the green part, and just make you hella sick, as far as tomato's are concerned

Also fun fact, people used to think the red part was bad and the green part was good. Shows what you know, Rome.

[Razade]

Not sure what Rome has to do with it.

To expand on the above. The early American Settlers wouldn't eat the tomato (that looked nothing like they do today) and the original ketchup was made out of mushroom.

[Prince Zahn]

From the most technical sense, a tomato is a fruit that's only typically eaten as a vegetable. In this same sense, since I can't believe there's debate over it (so why noy kindle the fire?) strawberries aren't a fruit - just a fleshy receptacle for the seeds, which ARE the fruit. That, however, is seldom the good part you want with your cream, or fruit salad.

By the same token, avocado is technically a fruit, but it's certainly not eaten that way, and is moreover considered as a healthy serving of monounsaturated fat by my nutritionist.

The bottom line is that it's best not to worry about the semantics, just eat what you like with what you deem is good to eat it with:smalltongue:

[Fri]

I hate that I respond to this thread clickbait, but basically "vegetable" is a completely arbitrary, non-biological designation, there's nothing in biology or physics that designate something to be a vegetable. It's culinary term, not biological term. One reason of the debate was tax, because in some places fruits are not given import tax but vegetables are. US Supreme Court has designated that for tax purpose, tomato is designated as vegetable, and that's the end of it on that side.

[OracleofWuffing]

From the most technical sense, a tomato is a fruit that's only typically eaten as a vegetable. In this same sense, since I can't believe there's debate over it (so why noy kindle the fire?) strawberries aren't a fruit - just a fleshy receptacle for the seeds, which ARE the fruit. That, however, is seldom the good part you want with your cream, or fruit salad.
I've always heard the strawberry debate as "Are strawberries berries," not whether they're fruits or vegetables. Which... Doesn't change much, because they're not berries for the same reasons you provided regardless. Kind of like how peanuts aren't supposed to be classified as nuts, either.

[LaZodiac]

Not sure what Rome has to do with it.

To expand on the above. The early American Settlers wouldn't eat the tomato (that looked nothing like they do today) and the original ketchup was made out of mushroom.

It's either Rome or Greece that eat primarly the deadly nightshade part of the tomato, I forget which.

[Razade]

Well...Rome's a pretty small country. The smallest actually. Do you mean Italy?

[veti]

Tomato is eaten like a vegetable, but if you rid yourself of preconceptions about how it should be eaten, its fruit-like nature becomes much more obvious and apparent. They're soft and sweet and can be happily eaten raw and have seeds inside and that suggests a fruit. There's no particular reason you couldn't eat tomatoes like other fruit, and indeed some strains are eaten as such, often in baby form. We've just got into the habit of using them in a different way.

All of which can also be said of: pumpkins, chili peppers, zucchini... basically, most vegetables where you don't eat the root or the stalk.

If tomatoes are a fruit, then the list of "vegetables that aren't fruit" grows very short.

So this is a question about what you understand by "fruit". If someone orders a fruit salad and they get a bowl of tomatoes, cucumbers and bell peppers, they're going to be - surprised. All of those are "fruit" within the so-called technical definition, which just goes to show that the technical definition is completely irrelevant to the question.

It's a vegetable. End of story.

[Razade]

All of which can also be said of: pumpkins, chili peppers, zucchini... basically, most vegetables where you don't eat the root or the stalk.

If tomatoes are a fruit, then the list of "vegetables that aren't fruit" grows very short.

So this is a question about what you understand by "fruit". If someone orders a fruit salad and they get a bowl of tomatoes, cucumbers and bell peppers, they're going to be - surprised. All of those are "fruit" within the so-called technical definition, which just goes to show that the technical definition is completely irrelevant to the question.

It's a vegetable. End of story.

Except it's not. Neither are the others you listed off. Science trumps not science.

[veti]

Except it's not. Neither are the others you listed off. Science trumps not science.

If you're going to go by "science", then the only truly defensible answer would be "both".

By phrasing it as an "or" question, the questioner has already conveyed that they're not interested in mere botanical taxonomy. This is a question about language. Which means it's about culture and context and usage, and all those things that science tries its damnedest to ignore.

Science is irrelevant.

[Razade]

Science is never irrelevant.

[factotum]

If you're going to go by "science", then the only truly defensible answer would be "both".

Which is a perfectly good answer to the question, and the one I would use. As already pointed out, tomato is a fruit under the strictly botanical definition of the term, and a vegetable under the culinary definition. These are not contradictory in any way.

[Fri]

Science is never irrelevant.

But science is never the only thing relevant. Language is also never irrelevant (except if you consider language as science as well). Also law.

[The_Snark]

Sure these guys have lame things like science to back up that tomatoes are fruit, but I have much better evidence, proving that a tomato is a vegetable.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/veggietalesitsforthekids/images/9/9d/Bob_(Classic_on_2004).jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130411024616


Counterargument! http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/bigidea/images/5/5b/BaconBill.png/revision/latest?cb=20150601164710

[Peelee]

It's either Rome or Greece that eat primarly the deadly nightshade part of the tomato, I forget which.

It was the rich.

Tomatoes are from the Americas. Rich Europeans get them first, eat them on pewter plates, and apparently, tomato + pewter => lead poisoning.

So they were right to fear eating tomatoes, just not for the right reasons. Also, all after the 15th century.

[Knaight]

All of which can also be said of: pumpkins, chili peppers, zucchini... basically, most vegetables where you don't eat the root or the stalk.

If tomatoes are a fruit, then the list of "vegetables that aren't fruit" grows very short.

There are definitely a class of vegetables that are more fruit like than others though - consider the list of vegetables that make sense as major components of a dessert. Tomatoes show up in various sweet-marinade and carmelization type dishes, pumpkins show up in pies and cakes, zucchinis work in zucchini bread (which tastes a lot like banana bread), etc. I wouldn't classify it as a fruit, but there's definitely a major distinction to be made between root vegetables, stalks, leafy greens, and the soft-sweet-good to eat raw-internal seeds category mentioned.

[Delicious Taffy]

Counterargument! http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/bigidea/images/5/5b/BaconBill.png/revision/latest?cb=20150601164710

Bacon confirmed for vegetable. Honestly, I've always been a bit confused on what is or isn't a vegetable. Tomatoes, sure, culinary sense only. I can swallow that. But what about brassicas? Most, if not all, of those were selectively bred from a flower, and I don't think many people would call a flower a vegetable.

[Knaight]

Bacon confirmed for vegetable. Honestly, I've always been a bit confused on what is or isn't a vegetable. Tomatoes, sure, culinary sense only. I can swallow that. But what about brassicas? Most, if not all, of those were selectively bred from a flower, and I don't think many people would call a flower a vegetable.

Most of those are definitely classified as vegetables, though mustard itself is thought of more as a spice. As far as flowers being a vegetable, this isn't the only case. Dandelion greens are a vegetable, hops are borderline, and for most other flowers it's more that there's nothing of substance to eat than anything.

[Aedilred]

And it has lime as a major ingredient too. The only thing not a fruit in it is the onion.
And the coriander. And, if you're a maniac, peas. Note: I do not condone putting peas in guacamole.


All of which can also be said of: pumpkins, chili peppers, zucchini... basically, most vegetables where you don't eat the root or the stalk.

I wouldn't want to eat a whole chilli pepper raw, and they're not that sweet either. Same goes for courgettes/zucchini. Pumpkin I just plain don't like unless it's in pie form, so I'll leave judgment on that to others. They are all, botanically, fruits though, in any case, but I've never heard them referred to as such in conversation.

[Razade]

And the coriander. And, if you're a maniac, peas. Note: I do not condone putting peas in guacamole.

Cilantro is fruit enough for me.


I wouldn't want to eat a whole chilli pepper raw, and they're not that sweet either.

You need to expand your pepper pallete. Lots of peppers are fairly sweet. Some are even citrus-y.

[Aedilred]

You need to expand your pepper pallete. Lots of peppers are fairly sweet. Some are even citrus-y.

I use jalapenos for guacamole when I can get them, and, regarding them, I stand by my earlier remark about chillis in general.

[Razade]

Oh, they're certainly not sweet. I use serrano, they're a bit more spicy. Also not sweet. But things like Habanero and Scotch Bonnet are pretty sweet. Just have to have the tolerance to the capsascin to taste it generally. I eat Ghost and Carolina Reaper peppers, so those aren't that spicy.

[Knaight]

Oh, they're certainly not sweet. I use serrano, they're a bit more spicy. Also not sweet. But things like Habanero and Scotch Bonnet are pretty sweet. Just have to have the tolerance to the capsascin to taste it generally. I eat Ghost and Carolina Reaper peppers, so those aren't that spicy.

There's also things like bell peppers, which have some sweet varieties and don't require the spice tolerance.

[Heliomance]

Isn't Guacamole a fruit salad? It uses tomato.

Guys we found the bard

[Razade]

There's also things like bell peppers, which have some sweet varieties and don't require the spice tolerance.

Sure, reds are just naturally sweeter because of the beta-carotene and there are small varieties of what Aedilred would just call "pepper". I use them to make sweet salsas for whimps who can't handle real food.


Guys we found the bard

I resent that. :smalltongue: I'm a level level 3 rogue, level 4 sorcerer with a focus on Illusions and weapon finesse. I also roleplay being really good at the lute.

[Eldan]

I'll add my voice to a few others here: words mean different things in different contexts.

Botanically, a fruit is a seed-bearing structure (plus a few more qualifiers). Tomatoes are fruit botanically.

Culinarily, fruit are more complicated. They are more or less parts of a plant that are sweet if eaten raw? Except for lemons and limes and some berries and a few others. Still, culinarily, most tomatoes aren't fruit.

Vegetable is the broadest definition of all. It's a part of a plant we eat, I suppose. Or eat, but not mainly for their starch (grain, potatoes) or to flavour other things (spices).

[Wardog]

It's a vegetable. End of story.


Except it's not.

Well, it's not an animal, and it's not a mineral. Ergo, it must be a vegetable. ;)

[Destro_Yersul]

Sure, reds are just naturally sweeter because of the beta-carotene and there are small varieties of what Aedilred would just call "pepper". I use them to make sweet salsas for whimps who can't handle real food.

Man, bell peppers go in almost everything. Them and onions are my go-to for adding plant matter to whatever I'm cooking. In terms of spicy peppers, I generally just stick with the lower end of the scoville scale for the sake of the people I cook for. Pickled habaneros are actually really good.

On the subject of tomatoes, yeah. Fruit. Specifically a berry. Just not one that's commonly used in the same way as, say, blueberries would be. Strange times in berry club.

[Gnomvid]

Sure, reds are just naturally sweeter because of the beta-carotene and there are small varieties of what Aedilred would just call "pepper". I use them to make sweet salsas for whimps who can't handle real food.

Yes I was about to remark the same I don't like Green Jalapeño because they are a bit bitter same as your regular green pepper, yellows are better but reds are the nice sweet ones but for Jalapeño for me it's Chipotle all the way sweet and smoked what's better?
Shame there's not many spicier peppers that are smoked regularly.

[Xyril]

If you're going to go by "science", then the only truly defensible answer would be "both".




Science is irrelevant.

A more interesting debate: If someone uses sarcastic scare-quotes around the word science, how much credibility do they have when offering factual assertions about the importance of science?

[sktarq]

There's also things like bell peppers, which have some sweet varieties and don't require the spice tolerance.

Don't require spice tolerance? As someone who, if I take a bite that contains any bell peppers will be non functional for hours due to pain, I must disagree. Even if someone uses their knife on a bell pepper before chopping my salad I get a tingle of it. "It's not spicy" it totally in the mind of the beholder.

Those fruit are bloody dangerous.


And cilantro is not a fruit, it is dish-cleaner in leaf form.

[Razade]

Don't require spice tolerance? As someone who, if I take a bite that contains any bell peppers will be non functional for hours due to pain, I must disagree. Even if someone uses their knife on a bell pepper before chopping my salad I get a tingle of it. "It's not spicy" it totally in the mind of the beholder.

Those fruit are bloody dangerous.

Yeah....I'm afraid I'm going to have to call B.S on this. Bell Peppers don't produce capsaicin so there's nothing to make them spicy. You're either thinking of some other pepper or...it's psychosomatic or you're just making it up wholecloth. One of those three. You literally can't get any "spice" from a bell pepper. They're biologically incapable on any kind of level. Even if they did (they do not) it'd be so low as to not last hours of time and if it really did (it can't) give you a reaction there's some other health issue going on.

If you're being honest about how bell peppers give you hours of pain then it's also some other health issue and you should go see a doctor because that's not natural.

[sktarq]

It isn't spice per say . . . But then again cinnamon isn't "hot" and we call it a spice. A bite of bell pepper is the same as the cinnamon challenge to me.

It is the oral equivalent of looking into a spotlight from a foot away.

It is so loud/bright/strong it causes pain

Does the same to my mother, and at least one uncle-and I've met others who have the same/similar reaction, if to a lesser degree. We all find the taste just blocks everything for an extended period of time. Again it the best equivlant I can find is like looking at a very bright light or loud sound can cause temporary deafness/blindness.

And yes all peppers cause this reaction-People just fail to warn about them because they are 'not hot'

[Eldan]

Sounds like you're allergic. There's no capsaicin in them. Bell Pepper allergies are a thign, have it checked out.

[Razade]

It isn't spice per say . . . But then again cinnamon isn't "hot" and we call it a spice. A bite of bell pepper is the same as the cinnamon challenge to me.

It is the oral equivalent of looking into a spotlight from a foot away.

It is so loud/bright/strong it causes pain

Yeah, that's not a normal reaction to Bell Peppers. You should go to a doctor. It sounds more like an allergic reaction. Cinammon is "spicy" because it has something called cinnamaldehyde which, like capsacin, is a skin irritant on a really powerful level. Horseradish and things in that family (like Wasabi) have a thing called isothiocyanates which only activates when the horseradish or other similar thing is ground up.

Peppers on the other hand have a compound called capsacin, which is in itself a capsacinoid, which is found in the placental tissue and "flesh" of the fruit itself. Verdict's still out on why peppers evolved this weird burning skin irritant but it's mostly beleived to be a two pronged thing. Birds would eat the peppers which would then cause the birds to poop more readily and thus spread their seeds and also as a deterrent for non-bird species to not eat the fruits of the plant.


Does the same to my mother, and at least one uncle-and I've met others who have the same/similar reaction, if to a lesser degree. We all find the taste just blocks everything for an extended period of time. Again it the best equivlant I can find is like looking at a very bright light or loud sound can cause temporary deafness/blindness.

Yeah, this still sounds like an allergic reaction. What ever it is certainly isn't a reaction to capsacin. Because there's literally 0 capsacin in the Bell Peppers to cause it.


And yes all peppers cause this reaction-People just fail to warn about them because they are 'not hot'

No they don't. #Notallpeppers. Most do because most peppers have capsacin present in them. Bell Peppers are actually the only peppers known to not produce capsacin. When someone tells you a Bell Pepper isn't "hot" it's because they're not. They lack the compound in its entirety.

[sktarq]

I asked my doctor once when I was 21 if I was allergic.

Doc: Do you have trouble breathing when you eat one? Hives? That kinda thing

Me: No, just lots of pain, nausea once when I took a full bite.

Doc: You're fine, Just avoid them if they hurt you. You may grow out of it.



That said my mother's is much less now in her 60's but mine is still doing fine in my 30's.

As for other peppers I avoid them but a few times I have had them the pain is just the same. "Heat" is irrelevant. I just figured I was super sensitive to it and maxed out on any of it.

[Razade]

Go to a better doctor? :smallconfused:

No matter what it is, it's not because Bell Peppers are spicy. It's something with your biology.

[Malimar]

But science is never the only thing relevant. Language is also never irrelevant (except if you consider language as science as well). Also law.
Speaking of law: the Supreme Court case Nix v Hedden conclusively solved this debate for American purposes. The tomato is legally a vegetable.

I'm hoping 1893 is long enough ago to be kosher "history" and not treyf "politics" for forum rule purposes. Although now I'm worrying if this approaches treyf "legal advice"...

[Peelee]

Speaking of law: the Supreme Court case Nix v Hedden conclusively solved this debate for American purposes. The tomato is legally a vegetable.

For tax purposes, and nothing else.

[Eldan]

Speaking of law: the Supreme Court case Nix v Hedden conclusively solved this debate for American purposes. The tomato is legally a vegetable.

I'm hoping 1893 is long enough ago to be kosher "history" and not treyf "politics" for forum rule purposes. Although now I'm worrying if this approaches treyf "legal advice"...

Only in the US. This is an international forum.

Tomatoes are metric vegetables. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/smilies/smallstick/smalltongue.gif

[Fri]

On capsaicin and spiciness, that's why we should call them piquant instead. A cinnamon pumpkin pie straight from the oven is hot and spicy, but not piquant!

[erikun]

Here, have a somewhat related video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmxIK9p0SNM
(note: it is as much about art as it is tomatoes)

Botanically, tomatoes are a fruit. They are the part of a plant that bears fruit and distributes its seeds that way.

Culinarily, tomatoes are a vegetable. Or at least, they are frequently considered a vegetable. They tend to have that savory taste that goes well with meat, so I find myself using them with meat and meat-substitute dishes a lot. Although they are used with salad.

I would add that, nutritionally, tomatoes would be considered a fruit. That is, if you are looking for some of the things normally associated with vegetables (fiber, roughage) then a tomato is a bad place to look. I've noticed this with another vegetable-not-vegetable: corn. Sure, it is considered a vegetable in most contexts, but it is really a type of grain. And if you try using corn in your diet as your primary vegetable, then you'll find yourself missing out on a lot of the typical vegetable benefits but overdoing it in the grain portions.

So in the end, which is it?

Probably all of them. As noted in the video, it depends on which context and which conversation we are having. You wouldn't stick tomatoes in your apple pie, but you would simmer them with celery and steak. And you wouldn't try eating the roots of a tomato plant (they're poisonous) thinking that is the correct "vegetable" part of the plant. The context of the conversation is important, which is why, with no context, the only reasonable answer to the question "Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable?" ends up being "Yes, it is."


Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. Charisma is the ability to sell a tomato-based fruit salad.
https://www.campbells.com/v8/wp-content/uploads/sites/41/2014/12/V8-Splash-BerryBlend-64oz.jpg

[Peelee]

Only in the US. This is an international forum.

Tomatoes are metric vegetables.

There are two kinds of countries. Those that use metric, and those that have had men walk on the moon.:smallcool:

[Yora]

I think the issue here is actually not so much over whether a tomato is a fruit (it is) but the definition of "vegetable". Fruit is an identifiable part of the plant with a botanical definition, but "vegetable" is much more broad. We kind of take it for granted but it's a weird paraphyletic class of objects, the only common factors being that they are edible plant matter, and no clear definition for exclusion.

In German we have the term "Obst", which is used for sweet plant parts that are eaten raw or used in cakes, marmelade, or ice cream. I belive all types of Obst are fruits. As far as I am able to tell, we use "Gemüse" exactly the same way as "vegetable".

The odd one out is rubar, which is used like Obst, but not considered one as it isn't a fruit.

Another interesting oddity is that almonds aren't nuts but the seeds of a plant in the same genus as peaches and apricots (and cherries). Inside the cores of peaches and apricots there's a seed just like in an almond, but they are poisonous when eaten.

[Strigon]

There are two kinds of countries. Those that use metric, and those that have had men walk on the moon.:smallcool:

There are two kinds of countries. Those that use metric, and those who lost a Mars probe by using Imperial. :smallcool:

[Peelee]

There are two kinds of countries. Those that use metric, and those who lost a Mars probe by using Imperial. :smallcool:

http://i.imgur.com/nnY8fv2.jpg

[Marillion]

Another interesting oddity is that almonds aren't nuts but the seeds of a plant in the same genus as peaches and apricots (and cherries). Inside the cores of peaches and apricots there's a seed just like in an almond, but they are poisonous when eaten.

That doesn't seem quite right to me. I've read more than one recipe that called specifically for the seeds within the pit of stone fruits. Perhaps they're poisonous in the same way that apple seeds contain cyanide; technically yes, but you'd have to eat an extraordinary amount to actually suffer any ill effects?

[Trekkin]

That doesn't seem quite right to me. I've read more than one recipe that called specifically for the seeds within the pit of stone fruits. Perhaps they're poisonous in the same way that apple seeds contain cyanide; technically yes, but you'd have to eat an extraordinary amount to actually suffer any ill effects?

This is correct. Furthermore, they are poisonous in exactly the same way: they contain amygdalin. I believe the LD50 is somewhere around 3/4ths of a peach pit per kilo, though.

[Stryyke]

Seeds are inside. It's a fruit. Remember fruit isn't defined by taste or consistency. Science cannot differentiate based on subjective qualities. All scientific classifications are determined by strictly objective qualities.

[Aedilred]

Seeds are inside. It's a fruit. Remember fruit isn't defined by taste or consistency. Science cannot differentiate based on subjective qualities. All scientific classifications are determined by strictly objective qualities.

Doesn't quantum theory challenge the notion of strict objectivity? And I think it's been demonstrated numerous times throughout history that science can be affected by subjective bias of the scientists concerned.

In any case, given that "vegetable" is not a scientific category, I think that approaching this question purely from a scientific perspective is not going to answer it satisfactorily, and is also missing the point.

[Dorath]

Not sure what Rome has to do with it.

To expand on the above. The early American Settlers wouldn't eat the tomato (that looked nothing like they do today) and the original ketchup was made out of mushroom.

The British added mushrooms to the original spiced pickled fish recipe, eventually replacing the fish entirely.

[veti]

Go to a better doctor? :smallconfused:

Sensitivity is not allergy. I don't see anything wrong with the advice "if it hurts, don't do it".


No matter what it is, it's not because Bell Peppers are spicy. It's something with your biology.

They are, in fact, spicy, just not very spicy. Capsaicin is not the only thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsinoids) that produces that effect. But some people - including most babies, for a start - have extremely sensitive mouths. Try feeding bell peppers to a kindergarten group, and chances are quite a few of them will complain that it's "too spicy".

The Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_pepper) even says, that's why they're called "peppers". The first Europeans to taste them definitely thought they were spicy.

[lio45]

Well...Rome's a pretty small country. The smallest actually. Do you mean Italy?

Nah, it was a pretty big country (much bigger than Italy); whenever someone uses it in that context, it basically always means this (exact borders may vary, of course) :

http://www.smallworldmaps.com/media/maps/editorial/roman-empire-454px.jpg

[lio45]

Doesn't quantum theory challenge the notion of strict objectivity?

Not in that sense, no.

(However, I'll point out that something like "consistency" can be scientifically defined and discussed using metrics like density, viscosity, etc. "Taste", obviously, not so much, although you can still discuss factual metrics like acidity, sweetness, etc. "Maple syrup is sweet" is not a subjective statement.)

[Razade]

Sensitivity is not allergy. I don't see anything wrong with the advice "if it hurts, don't do it".

Except the problem sounds exactly like an allergy.


They are, in fact, spicy, just not very spicy. Capsaicin is not the only thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsinoids) that produces that effect. But some people - including most babies, for a start - have extremely sensitive mouths. Try feeding bell peppers to a kindergarten group, and chances are quite a few of them will complain that it's "too spicy".

I'm aware. I pointed out several things that also give a "spice". Thing is, Bell Peppers don't have any compounds that invoke an irritant response in humans.


The Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_pepper) even says, that's why they're called "peppers". The first Europeans to taste them definitely thought they were spicy.

Wikipedia should also note, and probably doesn't, that the peppers that the first Europeans ate were not the same as a modern Bell Pepper. In fact, they were probably not even the same genus of pepper at all. Also since you like to quote wikipedia you should probably read down along the page where it says


The bell pepper is the only member of the Capsicum genus that does not produce capsaicin,[6] a lipophilic chemical that can cause a strong burning sensation when it comes in contact with mucous membranes. The lack of capsaicin in bell peppers is due to a recessive form of a gene that eliminates capsaicin and, consequently, the "hot" taste usually associated with the rest of the Capsicum genus.


Nah, it was a pretty big country (much bigger than Italy); whenever someone uses it in that context, it basically always means this (exact borders may vary, of course) :

http://www.smallworldmaps.com/media/maps/editorial/roman-empire-454px.jpg

Yeah. Was is the operative word. It isn't anymore. And when it was that large, they'd never heard of a tomato. In fact, Rome wasn't a country at all when the tomato came to Europe.

[lio45]

Yeah. Was is the operative word. It isn't anymore. And when it was that large, they'd never heard of a tomato.

I only skimmed the thread -- did someone actually suggest Ancient Romans were eating tomatoes?!? I just replied to you, 'cause I personally find it obvious what someone normally means when they say that.

[Razade]

I only skimmed the thread -- did someone actually suggest Ancient Romans were eating tomatoes?!? I just replied to you, 'cause I personally find it obvious what someone normally means when they say that.

I mean, the context was in the part I quoted.

[sktarq]

Except the problem sounds exactly like an allergy.
The issue I think was that it was non an immune system response which is to many a requirement for an allergy.



Yeah. Was is the operative word. It isn't anymore. And when it was that large, they'd never heard of a tomato. In fact, Rome wasn't a country at all when the tomato came to Europe.
Well the Papal States being "Rome" is a thing. It was a pretty normal way to refer to the city-state. It is generally the City and immediate region and was independent in 1548. Was it the empire. . . hell no.

[Razade]

Well the Papal States being "Rome" is a thing. It was a pretty normal way to refer to the city-state. It is generally the City and immediate region and was independent in 1548. Was it the empire. . . hell no.

Sure, we can quibble. Rater hasn't actually responded with what they meant however. People don't generally use "Rome" to mean the papacy or the city state or the current country. They usually mean the Empire. Which is why I was asking and then added "Did you mean Italy" because as been pointed out. The Roman Empire didn't have a clue the Tomato even existed, let alone the lands they came from.

[veti]

I'm aware. I pointed out several things that also give a "spice". Thing is, Bell Peppers don't have any compounds that invoke an irritant response in humans.

Tell that to the aforementioned kindergartners. They're definitely humans, and they definitely get an irritant response.

Come to think of it, if I unwarily rub my eyes after cutting a pepper, they get pretty damn' irritated too.


Also since you like to quote wikipedia you should probably read down along the page where it says


Sweet pepper cultivars produce non pungent capsaicinoids,[8] with many physiological effects similar to the more pungent sister compound capsaican.

Fixed that for you.

[Razade]

Tell that to the aforementioned kindergartners. They're definitely humans, and they definitely get an irritant response.

Come to think of it, if I unwarily rub my eyes after cutting a pepper, they get pretty damn' irritated too.

Not Bell Peppers they don't.



Fixed that for you.

Except you left out the operative bit before hand.


This recessive gene is overwritten in the Mexibelle pepper, a hybrid variety of bell pepper that produces small amounts of capsaicin (and is thus mildly pungent)

Which is what they're talking about. Also if you follow the link (the number 8) they're specifically talking about Capsiates which ALSO aren't in Bell Peppers.

[Xyril]

Doesn't quantum theory challenge the notion of strict objectivity? And I think it's been demonstrated numerous times throughout history that science can be affected by subjective bias of the scientists concerned.

You seem to be conflating science and scientists. Scientists should strive towards strict objectivity, but they're only human, and also there are more than a few people who don't even try for objectivity, who are conduct scientific inquiry and research, and who even make important discoveries once in a while. Science is about objectivity, or rather it might be more accurate to say that science is a systematic approach to help a bunch of inherently subjective humans strive towards the discovery of objective facts.

That is why science is concerned about quantifiable measurements and objective criteria. In science, it is useful to define a certain thing as a fruit because doing so is helpful in trying to understand all those things that grow fruit. In doing so, it is useful to have an objective scientific definition of fruit such that a plant part can be objectively a fruit or not a fruit, even if it is possible for a very biased individual to make the wrong determination about whether a particular plant part is a fruit. Acknowledging that individuals aren't naturally objective doesn't mean you give up trying.

The non-scientific definition of fruit is also a useful way to look a plant parts--if you see a plant part that you've never encountered before, and someone tells you it's a (culinary) fruit, then you have a rough idea of how to use it as a food item. However, it's also an inherently subjective definition that can vary between cultures.

[aloysius]

If it has seeds, it's a fruit. so cucumbers tomatoes etc all fruit