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Terinus
2017-03-15, 04:27 AM
So here's the situation. I was playing a Revenant cleric, and completed my task very early in the campaign, necessitating a reroll. Something came up that prevented me making the next session, so I decided to just drop in with my new character the session after. At the conclusion of the session I was absent for, the party ended up looking in some dark dungeon for a magic staff that would enable them to defeat a black dragon that had been terrorizing the nearby villages. Since the session I returned for would resume with the party already halfway through a dungeon, the DM suggested I roll a character who would already be in the dungeon for some reason.

After consulting with him on some of the organizations that exist in his world, I decided on a Faction Agent Rogue from a secret organization dedicated to collecting and storing powerful magical relics to prevent their misuse. My reason for being in the dungeon would be that I came seeking the same staff the party was looking for. After meeting with the party, we make it to the deepest area of the dungeon, where the staff is being guarded by some sort of construct guardians. We learn from these guardians that not only is the staff held here, but the dungeon also holds some really ominous-sounding grimoire that can grant its reader control of the dead.

After some dialog with the party, my character learns why they want the staff's power, and also learns that none of them have any intention of claiming the grimoire. I figure, these guys are using the staff for what appears to be a noble purpose, it's probably safe in their hands at least for the time being, and the grimoire is probably the larger threat anyway. I decide to make no attempt to convince them to give me the staff, and head off on my own to claim the book.

I gave them the wrong impression I guess, so the party follows me to the grimoire's chamber where I'm surrounded 4-1 and am now being interrogated. I tell them why I'm here and that I just want to keep the grimoire out of the wrong hands, but none of them are convinced. I end up letting slip the organization I work for, which was a huge mistake because apparently my faction has been outlawed by the queen (DM forgot to tell me this beforehand) and two of the party members are extremely loyal to the crown. At this point they draw their weapons, and it's now a "give us a reason not to kill you" situation. I hand over the my bag containing the grimoire to the character who has mostly been acting as party leader, and promise to travel with them until I've proven myself trustworthy enough to be given it back.

I figure this would be a decent hook for my character to travel with the party, right? Well, 5 minutes later the party trades the grimoire to the first wizard NPC they encounter in the next town over. My character immediately storms off, feeling completely betrayed. Not sure how I can justify continuing to travel with these guys, or if I should just have this character leave and reroll again. The only thing the party has that I could see my character wanting now is the staff, but at this point I have no reason to trust they'd let me take it after defeating the dragon. Not to mention my character pretty much hates these guys at this point.



TLDR: created a character after my previous one died, party betrayed the trust of the new character after threatening his life, having a hard time finding a reason why I would travel with them.

ShaneMRoth
2017-03-15, 06:02 AM
So... the GM allowed you to create a character who was somehow incompatible with the existing party's group dynamic...

And then the other players looked for the first plausible excuse to treat your character like an enemy...

And the GM was okay with another player-character threatening to kill your player-character?

Hmm...

I can't even give you a reason to stay with this group of players, let alone this group of characters.

This is not a character selection problem. This is a meta problem.

It is not supposed to be this difficult to find a player-character who is a good fit for any given group.

If you were trying to play an assassin who was attempting to infiltrate a party of paladins, I'd ask why the GM signed off on the assassin, but this would at least make some internal narrative sense.

But you were trying to play a character who seems like a riff on the rogue, a core class, in an ostensibly conventional party of player-characters.

You clearly aren't ready to give up on this group. It sounds like you're not a quitter. It sounds like you are not the sort to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

That you played a character in this game to the completion of that character's arc is the only thing that suggests a functional game here.

Nonetheless, the other players appear to have given themselves permission to have their fun at your expense, and the GM appears to be letting it happen. If this is the case, it's not sustainable.

Either the GM has a moment of clarity and starts doing his goddamn job, or he loses his game.

I'm not an advocate of the "no game is better than a bad game" school of thought, but I am of the "place value on your time" school of thought.

For now, re-roll another character. For all I know, the good outweighs the bad. Perhaps the GM provides all-you-can-eat omelettes, or he makes a mean margarita.

In your own time, and on your own terms, you may come to decide that this is not the right game group for you.

If that happens, just stop. Don't rage-quit. Don't seek closure. Don't air grievances. Just find something else that's worth your time.

Lord Torath
2017-03-15, 08:21 AM
“Do you have any idea how much damage that wizard you gave the Grimoire to could cause?!?” If the DM is at all paying attention, that NPC wizard will be the BBEG a few sessions down the road.

How attached to your current character are you? How dangerous is the staff compared to the Grimoire? You could have him stomp off, going after the NPC mage to re-acquire the Grimoire, and bring a new PC to the party, perhaps someone assigned by the queen, so you are all on the same team.

Talk to the DM, to see if he has something in mind. Like, if your agent storms off, can he prevent the coming Grimoire Apocalypse? Or will he show up zombified at a later date under the new BBEG’s control? (See? Trading the nasty-evil-book to an NPC was a bad idea!) Could your agent show up after the black dragon is defeated, and claim the staff?

Talk to the other players OOC, and ask them to help you out. Tell them you want your character to stay with the party, but you’re having trouble coming up with a reason. Maybe they see your agent as a threat to the party, and think you will try to be “that guy” and betray the party. If you can convince the other players that you aren’t, maybe they can work with you to find a way to have their characters trust yours, and vice versa.

Would your party have trusted you if you hadn’t revealed your organization? Let the other players know that you-the-player were unaware your organization was outlawed, and you wouldn’t have had your character reveal it if you had known. Maybe the players will let your retcon that reveal (doesn’t matter if the DM approves or not, the other players can pretend they don’t know), and while they can’t retcon the Grimoire hand-off, they can choose to help you recover it. You could all retcon (again without needing the DM’s permission) the presence of your PC during the Grimoire hand-off (you PC was taking a leak or something, and when he got back, he convinced the group what a bad idea handing that evil book to a random NPC was, and they decide to go after it, either before or after the black dragon).

OOC problems cannot be solved IC, but IC problems can be made less daunting with some OOC discussion. Also, OOC discussion can quickly reveal if they are having fun at your expense, or just trying to stick with their in-character motivations. If they are having fun at your expense, follow Shane's advice: Don't rage-quit, just tell them you don't feel like this is the campaign for you, and you'll be available at its conclusion (whether or not you actually will be).

Quertus
2017-03-15, 10:05 AM
I'd probably have a nice chat with the GM about just how mind-numbingly stupid their ideas for your character, and the information they omitted, was. If they cannot understand this, they are not worth your time.

If they do understand, I'd probably come in as the wizard to whom the party sold the book. Since, obviously, the party has already decided that he can be trusted with it.

GPS
2017-03-15, 11:20 AM
Honestly, I'm not a big fan of blaming the DM or saying you should leave a group, but in this case I have to say, the DM is to blame for forgetting that very important detail. Your party seemd to be RPing their characters correctly until the point they sold your grimoere, which could easily have been prevented by them just making up a reason to not sell it and rolling with it. I'd recommend just jumping off a cliff and rerolling, but this time making sure your DM is100% certain it will fit into that party. Nothing as big as leaving the group, everyone forgets things sometimes, and the players were probably just worried you'd made a character that would betray them. Killing your character and starting again (making up something about how you failed your organization) is an easier solution that doesn't involve having to come up with a bad reason why your character would stay. Keeping a character who now dislikes your party while you still harbor some hard feelings is never a good plan.

Edit: Easy way to get some bitterness you may harbor out, just make the new character an agent of the queen. You basically have carte blanche at that point. If anyone questions something that you're doing, insinuate that they're some kind of traitor for not letting you do whatever. Not a revenge build, by any means, just a bit of fun.

Thinker
2017-03-15, 11:57 AM
First reason to stay with the party - it's a game and if playing that character is fun, continue to play it. If you need some in-universe justifications, try one of these:
You report to your higher ups and they want you to stay with the party - if they have already found two artifacts in the short time you've known them, they might find more.
The Queen is right - your order is dangerous and you discover evidence of such.
Your character knows something that is somehow useful to the party's immediate concerns and you trade your knowledge or expertise for an artifact you've been after for some time.
Retcon the reveal or that the organization is outlawed (might be easier if it turns out a splinter faction of the org is outlawed and the rest of the party misunderstood).


These are not mutually exclusive.

GPS
2017-03-15, 12:09 PM
First reason to stay with the party - it's a game and if playing that character is fun, continue to play it. If you need some in-universe justifications, try one of these:
You report to your higher ups and they want you to stay with the party - if they have already found two artifacts in the short time you've known them, they might find more.
The Queen is right - your order is dangerous and you discover evidence of such.
Your character knows something that is somehow useful to the party's immediate concerns and you trade your knowledge or expertise for an artifact you've been after for some time.
Retcon the reveal or that the organization is outlawed (might be easier if it turns out a splinter faction of the org is outlawed and the rest of the party misunderstood).


These are not mutually exclusive.

These are all pretty good ideas when you have just the interrogation or that and the taking of his grimoire, but they sold it. That was a pretty big middle finger tossed in OP's direction, although to them it might have just been "dude you don't trust entrusts you with something? Sell it." At that point, the retcon and going back after the wizard are the only choice, but that requires the party to be willing to go back (the DM doesn't seem like an issue, but the party already roleplayed this out). This severely limits the options on the table. If I was playing a character, this would be the character suicide point for me, but I'm just the "cut your losses" kinda guy. Retcon may be better, but I just don't see it repairing the full extent of the damage.

erikun
2017-03-15, 12:22 PM
I guess I'm going to disagree with the majority of the board, and say that sometimes, certainy party compositions just don't get along.

And, for that matter, sometimes you just put together a character which doesn't work with the existing party. Either mechanics-wise or roleplay-wise.

And I think that's fine. In this case, you spend on session as the character. If you are not overly engrossed with playing that particular character, I would say just let them leave and roll up another one. Most parties are not "until death (and no resurrection) do we part" and so the occasional party member leaving should not be that big of a deal. I would recommend getting the table's advice on what kind of character to run - it seems that just the DM can cause some problems. Just don't hold a grudge between you and the table because they decided to question the random invite who wanted to pick up the Evil Tome of Necromancy.

If you want some reason for your existing character to stick with the party, then it sounds like you'll need some hefty out-of-character talk and justification from everyone to allow it. There's plenty of OOC reasons for a party to stick together anyways, but you'd want to be clear about the ones for this character.

Segev
2017-03-15, 12:38 PM
If you go for making a new PC - which is reasonable to want to do, but not something you should feel obligated to do if you really like this other one and want to try to salvage him - I suggest talking to the whole group about what you will play next. Work with the other players and the DM to come up with somebody. If he has secrets, let them be IC only; let the other players in on them. Get their buy-in on how protected the secret is to be from the party. Work together to let the party know any that you want the party to share, even if the character would not share it on purpose; their job is to then be accepting and supportive of it IC, by having their players OOC find reasons to be so.

In short: collaborate on your next character so everybody involved OOC has buy-in on making him work with the party.

Thinker
2017-03-15, 01:11 PM
These are all pretty good ideas when you have just the interrogation or that and the taking of his grimoire, but they sold it. That was a pretty big middle finger tossed in OP's direction, although to them it might have just been "dude you don't trust entrusts you with something? Sell it." At that point, the retcon and going back after the wizard are the only choice, but that requires the party to be willing to go back (the DM doesn't seem like an issue, but the party already roleplayed this out). This severely limits the options on the table. If I was playing a character, this would be the character suicide point for me, but I'm just the "cut your losses" kinda guy. Retcon may be better, but I just don't see it repairing the full extent of the damage.

Or you can accept that it's a game, that those actions don't really matter all that much to the game (was the game really about the grimoire?), and move on and keep playing if you are having fun. If you are not having fun or you do not think you will have fun, you should quit or change play so that you will have fun.

GPS
2017-03-15, 01:26 PM
Or you can accept that it's a game, that those actions don't really matter all that much to the game (was the game really about the grimoire?), and move on and keep playing if you are having fun. If you are not having fun or you do not think you will have fun, you should quit or change play so that you will have fun.
My bad. I didn't mean character suicide in a quitting sort of way, I meant it in a make a new character sort of way.

Terinus
2017-03-15, 02:36 PM
Couple more details, if it matters.

The DM already confirmed that between sessions, other agents from my order can help me get the book back from the wizard. His only suggestion for now is to follow the party until they kill the dragon, and then try to bargain for the staff.

Remember I mentioned I gave the book to the character who had been acting as leader? That character alone was the one who decided to trade it. A couple others acknowledge that was kind of messed up to do. I think my main problem here is that one player; everyone else in the group I like. Given that I accidentally revealed my character to be a criminal, it did make sense for them to mistrust me.

Despite being outlawed by the queen, I believe that based on other details given, my order is in the "right" and my character is doing the right thing. I think I would have little quarrel with the party if I had never revealed who I work for. I might try to see if I can have that one detail retconned. Also, one of the other players already told me OOC that he suspects the queen might secretly be the BBEG of the campaign.

Segev
2017-03-15, 03:10 PM
I think, since this character's secret is out IC, it won't hurt to have a group OOC discussion over whether and how to fit him into the party, and get everybody on board with playing towards that goal. Intra-party conflict and drama's fine if you're all in for it, and you all want to work it out. But playing it means being aware of how you're going to foment it without making it drive the PC out of the party.

D+1
2017-03-15, 03:15 PM
Couple more details, if it matters.

The DM already confirmed that between sessions, other agents from my order can help me get the book back from the wizard. His only suggestion for now is to follow the party until they kill the dragon, and then try to bargain for the staff.

Remember I mentioned I gave the book to the character who had been acting as leader? That character alone was the one who decided to trade it. A couple others acknowledge that was kind of messed up to do. I think my main problem here is that one player; everyone else in the group I like. Given that I accidentally revealed my character to be a criminal, it did make sense for them to mistrust me.

Despite being outlawed by the queen, I believe that based on other details given, my order is in the "right" and my character is doing the right thing. I think I would have little quarrel with the party if I had never revealed who I work for. I might try to see if I can have that one detail retconned. Also, one of the other players already told me OOC that he suspects the queen might secretly be the BBEG of the campaign.

It is an unwritten rule that players have an obligation to find reasons for their PC to be with the party. Obviously that's a waste of time if the other players are going to cling to every reason they can find NOT to let your PC remain with the party. The reason there is any issue at all seems to stem from the DM's blundering omission that your choice of organization for your new PC put you in direct opposition to the existing PC's. Fixing this is ENTIRELY the DM's obligation. You need to have a discussion with the DM and then the DM with the other players explaining that this is ultimately the DM's fault and the other players must not have their PC's hold it against yours for the DM's out-of-game failure to provide you with rather vital information.

Unless this is the kind of campaign where everyone is fine with PC vs. PC open antagonism. Myself, I think that a LITTLE of that goes a long way and while it's okay for the other players to decide that their PC's are not going to be entirely trusting of yours for some time it is not going to do anyone any good to take a stance that your character is unequivocally in the right. YOU need to find reasons for your character to remain with the party and for them to agree to that. Either that or you're only going to justify your character and the party going their separate ways - leaving you with once again needing to roll up a new PC. Again, you and the other players need to focus on how to keep the PC's all together as a group, NOT to focus on all the reasons they shouldn't.

Cluedrew
2017-03-15, 06:19 PM
I'm going to say talk to the group, the whole group all at once ideally. To they want to continue playing with that character? There are a bunch of ideas here already on how to do that. Work one out with them. Do they think a new character would be better? Talk to them about the new character to make sure it just leaves.

If they aren't helpful about it... well it may shift from party to group then. But for now this is within 'honest mistake' territory.

Also, the GM really slipped up not mentioning the whole outlaw thing.

ngilop
2017-03-15, 09:01 PM
aww man I am so envious of the OP right now.

I have literally had ZERO RP at tabletop RPG for the last 10 years.

let alone such a marvelous set up as this.

I can think of dozens of examples in literature, movies, and television where the 'rest of group is gonna kill that guy cuz reasons, then they become best of buddies and till death friends."

instead of being upset, just talk to the DM and the group and get this amazing RP possibility on the fast track to making a helluva story for you all.

Jay R
2017-03-15, 09:45 PM
I end up letting slip the organization I work for, which was a huge mistake because apparently my faction has been outlawed by the queen (DM forgot to tell me this beforehand) ...

The DM does not want you to be a member of this party, and made it impossible.


I figure this would be a decent hook for my character to travel with the party, right? Well, 5 minutes later the party trades the grimoire to the first wizard NPC they encounter in the next town over.

The other players have no desire to work with you. Accept it, and go find a game you'll be allowed to be part of.

Frozen_Feet
2017-03-16, 03:51 AM
You're not married to your character. At any point of time, you can hand your character sheet to the DM and say your character's theirs now (=NPC).

If you feel like still playing in the campaign, you then create a new character.

If not, you thank for the game and leave.

At no point should you assume in-character actions are symptomatic of a problem between players without other evidence. If the other players are okay for you to join the next session and the GM is willing to help you make a third character, you can be fairly certain it was all just a game.

weckar
2017-03-16, 06:45 AM
Other the guy selling the book (which, unless he has secret motives, was a **** move), this seems like an excellent group to RP with who take the world and their characters seriously. I'm not sure why so many people are telling you to quit them...

GPS
2017-03-16, 10:12 AM
The DM does not want you to be a member of this party, and made it impossible.



The other players have no desire to work with you. Accept it, and go find a game you'll be allowed to be part of.

A bit harsh my man. I feel like this was, in fact, an honest mistake (though I still think character suicide and rerolling is the way to go). I don't think the DM was secretly trying to push him out or anything. As I said earlier, if a dude you don't trust gives you something to look after, you're probably going to sell it. It was a bad move on their part, and the damage has been done, but it was only one member of the group who made the descision to sell it anyway (though I'm sure you already know that because you read the OP's update like everyone else before posting). Chances are if a DM's secret plot to remove you from the party can be foiled by making a new character, it's not really a secret plot, just some paranoia.

Winterfell
2017-03-16, 10:57 AM
After reading your post's title, I was totally prepared to say that this was a situation in which you need to Choose to Act DifferentlyTM - but yeah, no. This is a big failure on the DM's part - not only did he suggest a character concept to you that put you in conflict with the rest of the party, but he also neglected to tell you that that was the case. And your party members also refused to bite on the hooks you offered. It's a mark of a bad RPer when they're focused on refusing hooks rather than accepting them. It's masturbatory, really, to get on your "But-I'm-in-character" high horse and refuse to come down, even to integrate another PC into the party.

If you otherwise enjoy gaming with this group, talk to them about the issues that you're having. If you want to roll up a new character, either seek their input while creating the character to make sure they don't reject this one too, or make sure they understand that they have a real life, OOC responsibility to integrate you into the game.

Pex
2017-03-16, 11:15 AM
A bit harsh my man. I feel like this was, in fact, an honest mistake (though I still think character suicide and rerolling is the way to go). I don't think the DM was secretly trying to push him out or anything. As I said earlier, if a dude you don't trust gives you something to look after, you're probably going to sell it. It was a bad move on their part, and the damage has been done, but it was only one member of the group who made the descision to sell it anyway (though I'm sure you already know that because you read the OP's update like everyone else before posting). Chances are if a DM's secret plot to remove you from the party can be foiled by making a new character, it's not really a secret plot, just some paranoia.

It could all be Honest True just a game new character no problem, but presuming it's not, passive aggression such as this is not unique. Been there. See my entry in worst playing group thread in the 5E forum.

Jay R
2017-03-16, 11:17 AM
A bit harsh my man. I feel like this was, in fact, an honest mistake (though I still think character suicide and rerolling is the way to go). I don't think the DM was secretly trying to push him out or anything.

The DM withheld information that the character would have known, which made the character unworkable with that party.

You may be right that it was an honest mistake, and unintentional. The character was still unplayable with this party, and the DM knew it, or should have known it. The OP learned about the organization from the DM's description, which did not include the crucial fact that the main party would treat a member of it like a villain.

I might continue to play with a DM who did that on purpose, to create controversy. But a DM who helped me build a character who wouldn't work with the party and didn't notice or care? That's a deal-breaker.


As I said earlier, if a dude you don't trust gives you something to look after, you're probably going to sell it. It was a bad move on their part, and the damage has been done, but it was only one member of the group who made the descision to sell it anyway (though I'm sure you already know that because you read the OP's update like everyone else before posting). Chances are if a DM's secret plot to remove you from the party can be foiled by making a new character, it's not really a secret plot, just some paranoia.

If a member of the party agrees that he will hold onto your share of a party treasure until you're ready for it, and he sells it without making it a party decision, then he has betrayed you. The fact that he disposed of party goods as an individual decision makes it worse, not better.

And I don't think the DM has a secret plot to remove the OP's from the party. I think the DM failed to do the DM's job of watching over character creation to make a party possible. This is equivalent to (though not as obvious as) the DM who knows about, and doesn't prevent, the creation of an evil assassin by a player who doesn't know he's joining a party of paladins.

In any case, the only way to consistently play the OP's character is to leave the party that is actively preventing his mission, and go try to find the grimoire. And possibly try to get the staff from the party, since they have demonstrated that they will not keep dangerous items safe.

The OP's original stated problem is that he can't see any way this character can stay with this party. He is 100% correct.

ngilop
2017-03-16, 12:49 PM
Stuffs

first off I cannot believe that I am about to do this but.. (and I'm sorry Jay R) please do not listen to anything at all in the above quoted post or previous posts about much the same train of thought.


WHy you might ask?

It is one of the most amazing RP opportunities one could ask for.

How so? the detractors might ask?

well allow me to illuminate!

You see once upon a time long long ago I was in an all paladin game in an alternate realtiy medieval Europe. My character was the last of his Order, (one dedicated to destroying demons and rooting out infestation and corruptions thereof) to which was deemed 'heretical' stuff about conspiring with demons and other naughty demon related activities. The rest of the group was the main assault on the last stronghold of my order and each fell to a man except for me , I took an arrow to the eye and they thought it would be better to capture me alive as the sole remaining member to publicly try and punish me for the crimes of my entire order.

My character said things like "why is the Pope asking for no quarter, he is of the order of peace" and such I got one of the party to fully think something was up and a couple to agree that while it was indeed odd, things have taken a urn for the worse the last few months. cut ahead a while the Cardinal was a demon possessing his dead body and my character kept shouting 'He is no man, tis the enemy' and other such. to make the rest short; My character was able to use his 1/week ability to force a demon out of a possessed body a big battle ensued and finally it was revealed the pope was possessed by a powerful lord of Abbadon while on his way back from the holy lands.

You are fitting in almost the same slot as my old character was. You have sucha great opportunity here, don't get all butt hurt and ruin what should be a cool story line for all of you.


so in the end PLEASE do not pass up an amazing way to integrate what seems to me a misshap and not a DM is purposely screwing you over like everybody is claiming ad make a good story an amazing story with a super amazing twist and a way to say after you beat the main evil female dog "I told you so"

Stealth Marmot
2017-03-16, 01:37 PM
Everything I've read indicates OOC problems with animosity. Your character was immediately grabbed and interrogating for picking up a grimoire.

Let me ask you this, was the group together for a long time before you were added? I'm getting a sense of tribalism from them, like you're the outsider who just joined. It actually reminded me of the horror stories I hear from a lot of Vampire: The Masquerade LARPs and groups, specifically the problems that happen to new players.

Old players and game masters/storytellers screw over new players by omitting details and players immediately react, if not OVERREACT to new players going anything suspicious and will screw them over through various shakedowns and hazings. For a perfect example, look up "Spoony's Jihad" on Youtube to hear one story from an internet reviewer that I think encapsulates what I call the Gatekeeping problem.

This is partially the players fault and partially the DMs fault. When players without information on a world enter it without the proper context they can say or do something that actually screws them over big time. I had situations where a DM with a LOT of intricacies in his game screwed me over more than once because my character would have known better than to do something, but because I didn't I got screwed.

The best thing to do would be to make sure you have calmed down any irritation you might have, then sit down with the DM for a few minutes and explain your concerns. Tell him that you would appreciate him telling you of relevant things like that your character would know in the future, and if it slips out or he forgets to tell you something, let you retcon it. Make sure you tell him it pissed you off both in character and out and you don't like being interrogated, and piled on by the rest of the players.

If the DM says he'll try to do that from now on and cut you some retcon slack until you understand the world a bit better, then you shouldn't have as many problems. If he refuses to acknowledge he did anything wrong and tries to blame you for not knowing something your character should have known but you were never privy to, then politely take your leave of the group. I can assure you, if he wont admit he was at least partially to blame, this won't get better, only worse.

You should probably reroll, but you also should tell the Dm you want your character to try to keep tabs on the grimoire.

If he wants a good plot hook, he could have it so that the wizard uses the grimoire to cause devastation in a town over and your character is too late to save most of the people. Then your character gets the names of all of the people and walks in when the players are having a meeting and tells them that you have a list of names. You list off the names and ages for a while then inform the group "These people are all dead now. They are dead because an evil man got ahold of the book I trusted you with. A book you sold, directly, to him. For coin. I'm here to ask you if you want to start making this right and stopping the man you sold the grimoire to. Or are you too concerned over the Queen to care about her own subjects."

Jay R
2017-03-16, 02:14 PM
It is one of the most amazing RP opportunities one could ask for.

It would be, if he had asked for it. In fact it is a situation he doesn't want, did not ask for, and can't find a way to role-play within this party.

He is part of a group who has a mission. Consistent role-playing has to include that mission. This character must leave the group who has deliberately sabotaged his mission. The only way it can turn into an "amazing RP opportunit[y]" is for the DM to run separate sessions for him without the party (or straight-up PvP, of course).


... a DM is purposely screwing you over like everybody is claiming ...

Simply untrue. My post that you linked to (without quoting) specifically included:

You may be right that it was an honest mistake, and unintentional...

... a DM who helped me build a character who wouldn't work with the party and didn't notice or care?

And I don't think the DM has a secret plot ...

This cannot be honestly or fairly described as "DM is purposely screwing you over."

If you want to accuse me of saying something, please block-copy it from my words.

Maglubiyet
2017-03-16, 03:06 PM
I can think of dozens of examples in literature, movies, and television where the 'rest of group is gonna kill that guy cuz reasons, then they become best of buddies and till death friends."

instead of being upset, just talk to the DM and the group and get this amazing RP possibility on the fast track to making a helluva story for you all.

100% agree. People band together for reasons other than common interest. Or rather, there may be multiple interests at play, some of which coincide while others are at odds.

The thief may otherwise get along with the group, even though they sold his trinket. They may like his jokes, sing the same songs, be acquainted with the customs of his homeland. Heck, he may be romantically interested in one of the party members.

Lots of other RP opportunities than just "we not on same mission... must part ways".

ngilop
2017-03-16, 03:27 PM
It would be, if he had asked for it. In fact it is a situation he doesn't want, did not ask for, and can't find a way to role-play within this party.

He is part of a group who has a mission. Consistent role-playing has to include that mission. This character must leave the group who has deliberately sabotaged his mission. The only way it can turn into an "amazing RP opportunit[y]" is for the DM to run separate sessions for him without the party (or straight-up PvP, of course).



Simply untrue. My post that you linked to (without quoting) specifically included:


This cannot be honestly or fairly described as "DM is purposely screwing you over."

If you want to accuse me of saying something, please block-copy it from my words.
Bolded refenced line in quote for emphasis.

never once did I accuse you of anything. Please point where exactly in any of my previous posts in all of GiTP history, that I have ever done such a think. You are not going to find one.

You on the other had just now did accuse me. You accused me of putting false attributations to you personally clearly stated in your post that I obliged you on and block-copied for you. All did was quote the post you had literally right above mine, so I did not feel the need to re-quote the whole thing all over. I just said to the OP to not listen to what you and the other 'stop playing' side was saying and actually at least attempt to RP the situation. THEN I gave a story on how I was in a similar situation in a previous campaign and how that worked out.

I gave evidence specifically pertainable to the OP's situation at hand to support my side of the 'Give it a chance and take a leap of faith and try to grow and amazing RP experience out of it' My deepest condolences that that seems to have been an insult to you as a person.

But lets continue on with what you have said specifically. with more quotes.. again bolded.

The DM does not want you to be a member of this party, and made it impossible.


The other players have no desire to work with you. Accept it, and go find a game you'll be allowed to be part of.

Yep, you are right you never said anything about the DM doing it on purpose. My mistake. I will never understand why I could have thought that you were in the DM is purposely screwing you over group. I hope you can accept my apologies, it was too forward of me.

Mister Loorg
2017-03-16, 05:51 PM
stuff

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1s6aNjJRbrA/hqdefault.jpg

seriously though if the OP is reading all of this and still doesn't think that his group is out to get him, then give him actual advice on what to do

GPS
2017-03-16, 08:28 PM
-snip-

I am a player drama conesuir, and as such have read most of the group drama/bad player/bad DM threads past or present, and in none have I found a burn as sick as the one you just dished out. Congragulations, my good sir. You have won GitP for the day.

ShaneMRoth
2017-03-17, 03:23 AM
Couple more details, if it matters.

The DM already confirmed that between sessions, other agents from my order can help me get the book back from the wizard. His only suggestion for now is to follow the party until they kill the dragon, and then try to bargain for the staff.

Remember I mentioned I gave the book to the character who had been acting as leader? That character alone was the one who decided to trade it. A couple others acknowledge that was kind of messed up to do. I think my main problem here is that one player; everyone else in the group I like. Given that I accidentally revealed my character to be a criminal, it did make sense for them to mistrust me.



Mistrust you? Sure.

Threaten to kill you? NO.

I am now more optimistic about your prospects with this game group, but I remain wary.

The DM appears to have acknowledged one of his mistakes... that he botched the introduction of your character into play.

But, based on this follow-up post, it seems more likely than not that the DM is allowing That Guy to breach the social contract.

That Guy has given himself permission to run your character off at the point of a sword...

and That Guy, unilaterally, give away a potentially valuable piece of swag without so much as consulting with the other players.




I can think of dozens of examples in literature, movies, and television where the 'rest of group is gonna kill that guy cuz reasons, then they become best of buddies and till death friends."



I, too, can think of dozens of examples of the Fire Forged Friends trope. LINK (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FireForgedFriends)

In my experience, it is a tough trope to pull off in a role-playing game.

And with That Guy in the group, it's virtually impossible.




It is one of the most amazing RP opportunities one could ask for.



I find ngilop's optimism to be admirable, but ngilop is making this sound like a slam-dunk. It's not.

If the DM initiated this conflict, and staged it properly, it might be a bonefide amazing RP opportunity.

That's not what happened.

That Guy blind-sided the OP* with a death threat and unilaterally disposed of a valuable piece of swag-slash-obvious plot device. That's not an amazing RP opportunity. Any amazing RP opportunities will happen in spite of That Guy, not because of That Guy.

That Guy did what That Guy always does. Which is to act like a toxic pile of crap.

Once That Guy has given himself permission to have his fun at the expense of other players, only the GM is in a position to make it stop. The sooner the GM intervenes, the better.

One of my house rules is: "You don't get to take someone else's character out of the game without my explicit permission. You don't even get to try. If you want my permission, make a case. Even if your case is good, expect a no."

That house rule is a response to That Guy initiating "amazing RP opportunities" out of nowhere.

[BLEEP] That Guy, with a Gelatinous .



* The grimoire has Plot Device written all over it. The fact that the DM wants to bring the book back into play is evidence that [B]That Guy also blind-sided the DM.

Quertus
2017-03-17, 03:27 PM
So, how about the idea of coming back in as the wizard, with the book... But who has taken the leadership feat. Guess who his cohort is? Your old character.

Stealth Marmot
2017-03-17, 05:54 PM
So, how about the idea of coming back in as the wizard, with the book... But who has taken the leadership feat. Guess who his cohort is? Your old character.

I dont think the DM is likely to allow the player to pop in with a new character who is (last I recall for the requirements of Leadership) at least 2 levels above his current character.

Stealth Marmot
2017-03-17, 06:08 PM
That Guy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjJS76wOUm0

Quertus
2017-03-17, 06:15 PM
I dont think the DM is likely to allow the player to pop in with a new character who is (last I recall for the requirements of Leadership) at least 2 levels above his current character.

That seems like the least the GM could do for how horribly they bundled the character's integration into the party.

Beelzebubba
2017-03-20, 12:15 PM
Yeah, IMO the GM needs to make some amends. Not crawl on his knees, but exert some effort to smooth over the drama.

Tell the group he blew it, he messed up your intro, and then - in meta - figure out how to fix this so you're not the 'odd guy out' the rest of the adventure.