Divine Mind Dieties

[Yklikt]

The Divine Mind says to choose a diety and gives a list of what dieties give what mantles, but the list doesn't have all the dieties in D&D, so what if I play a Divine Mind and pick a diety not on the diety mantle list? How to tell what mantles I get from that diety?

[Yklikt]

Anyone? I do need to figure this out,

[Inevitability]

Obligatory 'do not play a divine mind, they are crap' here.


That said, there isn't a way to determine what deity gives what mantles other than the table. Ask your DM, or ask the forum to come up with some fitting portfolio.

[Psyren]

Trace the mantle list to the deity's domain list, use that to figure out which mantles that a deity with domains X, Y and Z would bestow, and then assign the mantles accordingly.

For example, Boccob has the Knowledge, Magic, Mind, Oracle, and Trickery domains. His mantles are Deception, Fate, Knowledge, and Magic. Personally I think he should have gotten Mental Power as an analogue to the Mind domain, but the rest are a one-for-one match, near enough.


Obligatory 'do not play a divine mind, they are crap' here.

Also this, this is good too.

[Tiri]

Well, given that the rules say a divine mind starts with a mantle, which is an independent piece of text from the one about deities, in the absence of a deity's list to pick from it might be possible to just pick any mantle.

Preferably something thematic, though. It would be strange to have a Divine Mind of Myrkul running around with the Life mantle.


Trace the mantle list to the deity's domain list, use that to figure out which mantles that a deity with domains X, Y and Z would bestow, and then assign the mantles accordingly.

For example, Boccob has the Knowledge, Magic, Mind, Oracle, and Trickery domains. His mantles are Deception, Fate, Knowledge, and Magic. Personally I think he should have gotten Mental Power as an analogue to the Mind domain, but the rest are a one-for-one match, near enough.

Not all the deities have mantles that correspond so smoothly to their domains, though. For example, Fharlanghn's Time mantle doesn't really match to anything in his domain set of Celerity, Luck, Protection, Travel and Weather.

[Psyren]

Not all the deities have mantles that correspond so smoothly to their domains, though. For example, Fharlanghn's Time mantle doesn't really match to anything in his domain set of Celerity, Luck, Protection, Travel and Weather.

Why wouldn't Celerity match that? Seems like a decent approximation to me.

[Tiri]

Why wouldn't Celerity match that? Seems like a decent approximation to me.

Possibly because Celerity is about moving quickly and Time is about, you know, time? The two concepts don't really have that much in common past some superficial resemblances. Yes, there's Time Stop in the Celerity domain, but that's probably supposed to be, thematically speaking, more in line with 'moving very fast' than anything really to do with time. I mean, it's not like any of the other mantles are really a good match either, but I'd hardly call it a 'decent approximation'.

It's just an example, though. There are other anomalies in that list, like Yondalla, who has Repose for some reason. Or Obad-Hai, with Communication. I'm not saying your system isn't a logical one, just that the people who wrote the actual class don't seem to have been following it.

[Yklikt]

I am very confused at what you all are saying

can someone explain please?

Also I'd like to know why the class is bad.

[Psyren]

Possibly because Celerity is about moving quickly and Time is about, you know, time?

Mastering time helps you do that, you know. It's fine.

Your other examples are noted but besides the point - the idea is to use that as a starting point. Obad-Hai is probably because psions effectively get Charm Animal and Attraction to do quasi-druidy things, but it's again irrelevant. Just use it to get started.



I am very confused at what you all are saying

can someone explain please?

I was saying you can look at a given deities domains (Complete Divine) and mantles (Complete Psionic) and look for patterns. For example, deities with the Trickery domain usually have the Deception mantle. Use those patterns to assign mantles to deities not featured in Complete Psionic.


Also I'd like to know why the class is bad.

How much time do you have? :smalltongue:

In brief - low manifester level, low power points, low powers known, poor chassis, and you can fall.

[Tiri]

Mastering time helps you do that, you know. It's fine.

No, it's not fine. Mastering time lets you do so much more than move quickly. It's simply not the 'decent approximation' that you seem to think it is. I mean, you could say that mastering the Natural World or Magic or Physical Power lets you move quickly, as well, for various reasons, but, like Time, moving quickly is only one of the many things mastering these aspects of existence encapsulate.


Your other examples are noted but besides the point - the idea is to use that as a starting point. Obad-Hai is probably because psions effectively get Charm Animal and Attraction to do quasi-druidy things, but it's again irrelevant. Just use it to get started.

The problem with using it as a starting point is that there isn't really a way to continue after that, due to random things like the domains/mantles. I think your system is good, but I was just pointing out that WoTC doesn't appear to have been entirely going by it when they designed Divine Mind.

[Psyren]

No, it's not fine. Mastering time lets you do so much more than move quickly. It's simply not the 'decent approximation' that you seem to think it is. I mean, you could say that mastering the Natural World or Magic or Physical Power lets you move quickly, as well, for various reasons, but, like Time, moving quickly is only one of the many things mastering these aspects of existence encapsulate.

Exactly, it's one of them. The fact that Time does more is irrelevant, you could make that point about lots of mantles and domains. Elements for instance goes way beyond Water, but it's still the best mapping we've got; no need to be so literal.

[Tiri]

Exactly, it's one of them. The fact that Time does more is irrelevant, you could make that point about lots of mantles and domains. Elements for instance goes way beyond Water, but it's still the best mapping we've got; no need to be so literal.

Time goes much further than Elements does in this case, though. Water is fully a fourth of Elements in D&D terms, but Time, even in a D&D world, encompasses such huge swathes of existence that simply 'moving quickly' is only related to it in the sense that if you have some power over time you could control how fast you move, but the same can be said for any of the other mantles I listed, and even then it would only be a minuscule portion of any of them.

Which is why I say it is not a good match. Or a decent approximation. There simply isn't such a thing for Celerity in the list of Mantles.

[Psyren]

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

[Tiri]

Very well. I agree that further argument probably won't accomplish much.

[Bohandas]

Extrapolate from the deity's description and portfolio; I think this is superior to extrapolating from domains

Also Iuz, Lolth, Tharizdun, and Zuggtmoy should all have the elements domain as they were involved in the cult of elemental evil