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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Ranger Archtypes: Hunter and Warden



GalacticAxekick
2017-03-15, 12:09 PM
As part of an ongoing project to grant the martial classes (Fighter, Ranger and Monk especially) round-to-round options without limited resources (superiority dice, ki points) or magic, I intend to make animal companions available to all classes (like mounts!).

To replace the Beast Master subclass, I'm writing a Warden subclass for the Ranger. Both the Hunter and the Warden are expert explorers, trackers and survivors, but where the Hunter excels at knowing her enemy and exploiting their weaknesses, the Warden knows herself and expands her natural abilities to beastly effect.

Replacing their spells and expanding on their class features, a feature (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BykRmlvog) similar to the Warlock's Eldritch Invocations will grant Hunters and Wardens a variety of tools for combat and exploration. The Warden features are modified versions of features various animals have. The Hunter features are counterparts designed to take down various threats, typically using weapons or traps.

Advice regarding balance is of appreciated, but more than anything, I need help brainstorming Hunter features! I need counterparts for the following Warden features:
Trample
Sure-Footed
Standing Leap
Spider Climb
Running Leap
Mimicry
And I'd like to balance the following animal features as Warden features (with Hunter counterparts)

Blood Frenzy
Flyby
Hold Breath

LeonBH
2017-03-15, 10:13 PM
This looks really, really promising. At which specific levels do you plan on making these features available? And which features are they replacing for the Ranger? It's tough to make suggestions without a more solid framework.

On a corrective note, you have Darkvision for Wardens as:

Darkvision. The Warden gains Blindsight out to 60 feet.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-15, 10:36 PM
This looks really, really promising. At which specific levels do you plan on making these features available? And which features are they replacing for the Ranger? It's tough to make suggestions without a more solid framework.Like Eldritch Invocations, I'd like them to be granted every two-to-four levels. The Ranger would be free to select any feature they like from the list, though more powerful or specialized features would have prerequisites.

In other words, most of these should be balanced so that a 2nd or 3rd level Ranger could acquire them without issue, and any stronger than that should have prerequisites. Synergy is also something to watch out for.


On a corrective note, you have Darkvision for Wardens as:Noted and fixed, thanks!

LeonBH
2017-03-15, 11:49 PM
Would these replace things like Colossus Slayer and Multiattack? That is, is the entire archetype going to be scrapped and replaced with these strategies, keeping the difference between Warden and Hunter only about the choices for these invocations?

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-16, 12:12 AM
Because the Hunter and Warden will be selecting pseudo-Invocations, I don't want to crowd either archetype with additional feature selection, and so I plan to write archetype features with defined benefits. The Hunter's Extra Attack, which was exactly this, is here to stay. Hunter's Prey, Defensive Tactics, Multiattack, and Superior Hunter's Defense are being rolled into the invocations.

New Hunter features will probably be derived from old Ranger-exclusive spells (Ensnaring Strike, Hail of Thorns, Hunter's Mark, Cordon of Arrows, Conjure Barrage, Lightning Arrow, Conjure Volley, Swift Quiver) and written from scratch to preserve their exploration options.

Warden features will be written from scratch.

LeonBH
2017-03-16, 02:43 AM
Here's some ideas.

Hunter counterpart to Trample:

Prone Tactics
While prone, attackers within 5ft of you do not get advantage on melee attacks against you.

Counterpart to Sure-Footed:

Take Down Tactics
When you use a Ranger ability that allows a Strength or Dexterity saving throw to prevent being knocked prone, your targets have disadvantage on that save.

Counterpart to Mimicry:

Distinguishing Ears
Your Passive Insight skill gains a +5 bonus.

Standing Leap, Running Leap, and Spider Climb are all similar skills that try to give you maneuverability. You should merge them into one, or pick one and drop the other two.

Warden's Flyby:

Flyby
When you take the Dash action, you do not provoke opportunity attacks against creatures this turn


Sentinel
When a creature moves away from your melee reach, you may make one melee attack against them as a reaction even if they have Disengaged.

For Blood Frenzy:

Blood Frenzy
On your turn, before you make your first attack, you may choose to attack in a blood frenzy. Doing so grants all your melee attacks Advantage until the end of your turn, but all attacks against you are at Advantage until the start of your next turn.


Patient Defense
As a bonus action, before you make any attacks on your turn, you may enter a defensive stance. All attacks against you have Disadvantage until the start of your next turn. All your attacks for this turn also have Disadvantage.

For Hold Breath:

Hold Breath
While underwater, you gain a swim speed equal to your movement speed. The time you can hold your breath equals a number of minutes equal to 10 + your Con modifier.


Underwater Combat Specialist
While underwater, your melee attacks are not at disadvantage. Furthermore, your ranged attacks are not at disadvantage within its short range increment, and may hit other creatures at disadvantage on their long range increment.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-16, 09:12 AM
Prone Tactics
While prone, attackers within 5ft of you do not get advantage on melee attacks against you.I like where this is going! I think it's a bit underpowered, since at best it mitigates an uncommon disadvantage. But maybe we could have it do more to make the prone state useful! How does this sound?

Tumbling
The Hunter gains a crawling speed equal to their base speed, and the Hunter can crawl through occupied spaces at no penalty: even those of enemies.


Take Down Tactics
When you use a Ranger ability that allows a Strength or Dexterity saving throw to prevent being knocked prone, your targets have disadvantage on that save.I don't think the Hunter has any abilities that allow such saves (though we could always write some!). This sounds like it would interact best with any trap-setting features we grant the Hunter, so I'll take note to brainstorm such features.


Distinguishing Ears
Your Passive Insight skill gains a +5 bonus.Straightforward, but effective! I like that it plays into the sleuth potential of the Ranger class, which I feel is often overshadowed by the traditional hunter-expeditioner.


Standing Leap, Running Leap, and Spider Climb are all similar skills that try to give you maneuverability. You should merge them into one, or pick one and drop the other two.Running Leap and Standing Leap can can combined into simply Leaper, or for a better term...

Hurdler:
Your long jump and high jump distances are doubled to a maximum of your speed

I think Spider Climb is different enough from the two leaping features that it can stay unique.


Flyby
When you take the Dash action, you do not provoke opportunity attacks against creatures this turn

Sentinel
When a creature moves away from your melee reach, you may make one melee attack against them as a reaction even if they have Disengaged.Solid!


Blood Frenzy
On your turn, before you make your first attack, you may choose to attack in a blood frenzy. Doing so grants all your melee attacks Advantage until the end of your turn, but all attacks against you are at Advantage until the start of your next turn.

Patient Defense
As a bonus action, before you make any attacks on your turn, you may enter a defensive stance. All attacks against you have Disadvantage until the start of your next turn. All your attacks for this turn also have Disadvantage.I'm not thrilled that this steps on the Barbarian's toes a bit, but it's only a bit, and it's mechanically and thematically appropriate, so I can dig it!


Hold Breath
While underwater, you gain a swim speed equal to your movement speed. The time you can hold your breath equals a number of minutes equal to 10 + your Con modifier.

Underwater Combat Specialist
While underwater, your melee attacks are not at disadvantage. Furthermore, your ranged attacks are not at disadvantage within its short range increment, and may hit other creatures at disadvantage on their long range increment.Hold Breath looks solid! I might make it a number of minutes equal to your Con score, since the + 10 is already moving in that direction. But those are details.

Underwater Combat Specialist might be weaker than it looks, tough. Any creature with a swim speed gains these benefits anyway.

LeonBH
2017-03-16, 09:50 AM
Tumbling
The Hunter gains a crawling speed equal to their base speed, and the Hunter can crawl through occupied spaces at no penalty: even those of enemies.

Tumbling sounds weird now, because it seems to incentivise a fighting style where the Ranger is crawling. I have in my mind those horror movies where the ghosts crawl on the floor and freak the protagonists out. Haha.

What about this variation?


Tumbling
When you fall prone unwillingly, you may use your reaction to make a DC 10 Acrobatics or Athletics check. On a success, you stand up immediately. Additionally, you do not need to spend extra movement while crawling.

Hurdler is good. So what about this for the Hunter counterpart?


Trick Roper
Choose a target within 15 feet of you. They must make a Strength saving throw against your save DC (8 + proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier), or be pulled 10 ft in a straight line towards you and be Restrained.

Regarding Blood Frenzy, it does step on the Barbarian's toes a bit. Patient Defense also steps on the Monk's toes as well (bonus action Dodge), but is less powerful as they also attack with Disadvantage.

Regarding Underwater Combat Specialist, you're right. But re-reading Underwater Combat from the PHB, even creatures with a swim speed have disadvantage on ranged attack rolls. Perhaps it should just grant a swim speed and the ability to make ranged attacks normally?

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-16, 10:24 AM
Tumbling sounds weird now, because it seems to incentivise a fighting style where the Ranger is crawling. I have in my mind those horror movies where the ghosts crawl on the floor and freak the protagonists out. Haha.Lol, I thinking of "crawling" as "any prone movement". Effectively, it was supposed to let the Ranger used rolls and dives to move swiftly and through occupied spaces.


Trick Roper
Choose a target within 15 feet of you. They must make a Strength saving throw against your save DC (8 + proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier), or be pulled 10 ft in a straight line towards you and be Restrained.I can work with this! I intend to make a number of "grappling" weapons regular parts of the simple weapon list (including nets, lassos, bolas and garrotes). All of them would allow you to restrain a foe on hit, but none of them allow you to move or reel a restrained foe, which I could grant with this feature!


Regarding Underwater Combat Specialist, you're right. But re-reading Underwater Combat from the PHB, even creatures with a swim speed have disadvantage on ranged attack rolls. Perhaps it should just grant a swim speed and the ability to make ranged attacks normally?That's reasonable!

I'll edit the homebrewery page to include these changes in a bit!