Unique Item Help. Plus Annoying Cleric Mechanic.

[Twistedambition]

Hey guys I'm extremely new here and just need some advice. I have started a new campaign with a few friends. The party just killed a Monstrous Centipede and the ranger harvested the Chitin to see if a local black smith could fashion him some stronger light armor. First question how should i handle this interaction? I told him that the blacksmith would get back to him if he could do anything with the chitin. I personally think it would be cool for him to have bug armor, But IDK what stats or AC to give the new gear. also our paladin found some obsidian glass that he wants to get turned into an axe. Again IDk how to deal with this new gear. Any help or advice would be helpful thank you.

I also have another player who is rolling with a dwarf forge cleric. He has a cantrip called sacred flame that he can cast every 6 sec. He has used this to ruin two boss encounters where to boss was going to do something or explain their motivation. The min they start talking he throws a hammer then starts counting till his next hammer it thrown( also I have to add this his sacred flame is in the shape of a hammer made of flame that he throws from his hands).
How do i get him to stop this mechanically.

Thank you

[Naanomi]

The game as it stands doesn't have much use for 'special materials' in equipment. In a high enough magic campaign then one could consider 'bug armor' or 'obsidian axe' a good place to start for enchantment (though I would be inclined to make it medium or heavy armor, not light), but the availability of enchanted equipment in general is entirely in the GM's hands

As for the attack cantrips... attack cantrips are supposed to be the 'basic attack' of casters, disallowing their use is like taking the weapons from a fighter. Which can happen, of course, but they are sort of a base assumption of the game to be generally available. How would you handle a fighter shooting an arrow at things all the time? In specific cases, it requires both Verbal and Somatic components, so finding some way to bind or silence the Cleric can stop it from happening if really necessary to do so

[Segev]

Hey guys I'm extremely new here and just need some advice. I have started a new campaign with a few friends. The party just killed a Monstrous Centipede and the ranger harvested the Chitin to see if a local black smith could fashion him some stronger light armor. First question how should i handle this interaction? I told him that the blacksmith would get back to him if he could do anything with the chitin. I personally think it would be cool for him to have bug armor, But IDK what stats or AC to give the new gear. also our paladin found some obsidian glass that he wants to get turned into an axe. Again IDk how to deal with this new gear. Any help or advice would be helpful thank you.I'd give him half-price masterwork armor of whatever sort he prefers. He provided materials, so the blacksmith is charging him just for his labor. Bug armor is cool-looking, but needn't have any inherent special properties aside from being ready for later enchantment (because it's masterwork). For the axe, you might make it a +1 keen axe if you want to hand out a magic item. That's thematic for obsidian.


I also have another player who is rolling with a dwarf forge cleric. He has a cantrip called sacred flame that he can cast every 6 sec. He has used this to ruin two boss encounters where to boss was going to do something or explain their motivation. The min they start talking he throws a hammer then starts counting till his next hammer it thrown( also I have to add this his sacred flame is in the shape of a hammer made of flame that he throws from his hands).
How do i get him to stop this mechanically.

Thank you
How would you handle it if this were a ranger firing an arrow every round? The problem here isn't the spell. It's the character's choice to attack.

The mechanical way to handle it is to make it impossible to attack before the boss does his thing. Again, though, remember that it's no different in terms of effect than if a ranger did this with a bow and arrow.

[Lombra]

For the cleric: there's no reasonable in-game way to stop him, (if only his diety discouraged that kind of behaviour) if both you and the other players think that this ruins immersion then talk to the player OOC and ask him to be less reckless. Or you could make the enemy focus on the cleric to make his life harder, although I feel that this would ruin the experience of the other players too.

Unique Items don't need to be extremely different from the others, especially at low levels. The chitin armor may have the same AC of the previous worn by the ranger and gives him resistance to poison damage, or could just count as light and have a base AC of 13. Make the obsidian axe count as silvered for the purpose of overcoming resistance to non silvered weapons, or give it the light property. You can also just give flavourful perks rather than standard bonuses, for example the chitin armor will give disadvantage on ability checks that rely on smell to identify the wearer, and the increased sharpness of the obsidian would double the damage that the axe inflicts to wooden things.

[Twistedambition]

The game as it stands doesn't have much use for 'special materials' in equipment. In a high enough magic campaign then one could consider 'bug armor' or 'obsidian axe' a good place to start for enchantment (though I would be inclined to make it medium or heavy armor, not light), but the availability of enchanted equipment in general is entirely in the GM's hands

As for the attack cantrips... attack cantrips are supposed to be the 'basic attack' of casters, disallowing their use is like taking the weapons from a fighter. Which can happen, of course, but they are sort of a base assumption of the game to be generally available. How would you handle a fighter shooting an arrow at things all the time? In specific cases, it requires both Verbal and Somatic components, so finding some way to bind or silence the Cleric can stop it from happening if really necessary to do so

Thank you for the new way of thinking, I didn't think about another character doing it with a ranged attack.

[Twistedambition]

For the cleric: there's no reasonable in-game way to stop him, (if only his diety discouraged that kind of behaviour) if both you and the other players think that this ruins immersion then talk to the player OOC and ask him to be less reckless. Or you could make the enemy focus on the cleric to make his life harder, although I feel that this would ruin the experience of the other players too.

Unique Items don't need to be extremely different from the others, especially at low levels. The chitin armor may have the same AC of the previous worn by the ranger and gives him resistance to poison damage, or could just count as light and have a base AC of 13. Make the obsidian axe count as silvered for the purpose of overcoming resistance to non silvered weapons, or give it the light property. You can also just give flavourful perks rather than standard bonuses, for example the chitin armor will give disadvantage on ability checks that rely on smell to identify the wearer, and the increased sharpness of the obsidian would double the damage that the axe inflicts to wooden things.

Thank you for the help. I have talking to him and asked him to maybe stop doing it as much and his response was this. " I'm a lawful/good Dwarf cleric, I'm doing what my character would do. If i wanted to to be a **** I would also be trying to kill the Dark Elf and the Half Orc in the party cause my charcter would see them as scum of the earth"

Also I like the Idea if the armor giving him a resistance of some kind.

[Lombra]

Thank you for the help. I have talking to him and asked him to maybe stop doing it as much and his response was this. " I'm a lawful/good Dwarf cleric, I'm doing what my character would do. If i wanted to to be a **** I would also be trying to kill the Dark Elf and the Half Orc in the party cause my charcter would see them as scum of the earth"

Also I like the Idea if the armor giving him a resistance of some kind.

Well if the other characters agree to his ploicy then you should find a way to describe the villains through npcs that talk about them, not necessarly directly to the characters, maybe two guards are sitting in a table at the tavern where the PCs are dining, and are chatting about that one guy who murdered the king with his wicked magic, the PCs will hear it and will now know more about their target. If the dwarf prevents key informations to be delivered to the party, the other characters may want to force him to change his attitude, heck his diety should tell him to stop if his behaviour is hindering his mission.

[Tanarii]

Hey guys I'm extremely new here and just need some advice. I have started a new campaign with a few friends. The party just killed a Monstrous Centipede and the ranger harvested the Chitin to see if a local black smith could fashion him some stronger light armor. First question how should i handle this interaction? I told him that the blacksmith would get back to him if he could do anything with the chitin. I personally think it would be cool for him to have bug armor, But IDK what stats or AC to give the new gear. also our paladin found some obsidian glass that he wants to get turned into an axe. Again IDk how to deal with this new gear. Any help or advice would be helpful thank you.Bug Chitin like a Breastplate to me. If it's not whole pieces, might be usable for Scalemail. But not for Light Armors. (That's my personal judgement on my part as a DM.) You could give it some special non-magical but magical-like property if you wanna play up the rule of cool. But in that case you want to make it cost more than regular Breastplate, basically the armor + magical item level equivalent. You can either mine the DMG for 'magic' ideas or make one up yourself. Armor of Resistance would probably be a good place to start.

Obsidian Glass would either make a piss-poor axe (historical & material accuracy). Or again it might gain some magical-like property if forged by someone with semi-magical forging capabilities.


I also have another player who is rolling with a dwarf forge cleric. He has a cantrip called sacred flame that he can cast every 6 sec. He has used this to ruin two boss encounters where to boss was going to do something or explain their motivation. The min they start talking he throws a hammer then starts counting till his next hammer it thrown( also I have to add this his sacred flame is in the shape of a hammer made of flame that he throws from his hands).
How do i get him to stop this mechanically.By not having your bosses monologue. If they're doing that, of course the players are going to attack them while they're doing it. Don't all Players know that's the correct course of action? I though all DMs were aware of this and only had Bosses monologue when it was intended the PCs should immediately attack.

[Naanomi]

Obsidian Great Axe? That is how I would stat up a Macuahuitl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macuahuitl)

[Twistedambition]

Bug Chitin like a Breastplate to me. If it's not whole pieces, might be usable for Scalemail. But not for Light Armors. (That's my personal judgement on my part as a DM.) You could give it some special non-magical but magical-like property if you wanna play up the rule of cool. But in that case you want to make it cost more than regular Breastplate, basically the armor + magical item level equivalent. You can either mine the DMG for 'magic' ideas or make one up yourself. Armor of Resistance would probably be a good place to start.

Obsidian Glass would either make a piss-poor axe (historical & material accuracy). Or again it might gain some magical-like property if forged by someone with semi-magical forging capabilities.

By not having your bosses monologue. If they're doing that, of course the players are going to attack them while they're doing it. Don't all Players know that's the correct course of action? I though all DMs were aware of this and only had Bosses monologue when it was intended the PCs should immediately attack.

ok I think I probably did a bad job of explaining the encounter. The Paladin was asking questions before this all started. Thats why the party got a little upset with him. She died without them knowing why it happened. the Cleric now has a cursed item in his possession without him knowing. Should have listens to the elf M8

[Fishyninja]

I'm not going to answer in regards to the items as there have been lots of responses.

To add in my two cents to the cleric.
As many has said, stopping him from using his cantrips is akin to removing a weapon, however you can think of ways (such as magical shields etc) to mabye negate/lessen the damage of one or two if you need to relay information to the party.
Another way to do it is if the cleric is killing your 'messengers' before they can get the message out, make later tasks much harder as the party are now missing vital information. Might be worth sneaking in that tidbit of information to the party via an NPC.

May make the cleric think about his actions first.

[Twistedambition]

Obsidian Great Axe? That is how I would stat up a

oh thats a great idea. I love it I shall name it after you my friend.

[Tanarii]

Thank you for the help. I have talking to him and asked him to maybe stop doing it as much and his response was this. " I'm a lawful/good Dwarf cleric, I'm doing what my character would do. If i wanted to to be a **** I would also be trying to kill the Dark Elf and the Half Orc in the party cause my charcter would see them as scum of the earth"


ok I think I probably did a bad job of explaining the encounter. The Paladin was asking questions before this all started. Thats why the party got a little upset with him. She died without them knowing why it happened. the Cleric now has a cursed item in his possession without him knowing. Should have listens to the elf M8Oh yeah, any time a player is screwing with something another player is trying to accomplish and using 'that's what my character would do' as an excuse, you've definitely got a player discipline problems on your hands. Unless it's explicitly that kind of game in the first place.

[Twistedambition]

I'm not going to answer in regards to the items as there have been lots of responses.

To add in my two cents to the cleric.
As many has said, stopping him from using his cantrips is akin to removing a weapon, however you can think of ways (such as magical shields etc) to mabye negate/lessen the damage of one or two if you need to relay information to the party.
Another way to do it is if the cleric is killing your 'messengers' before they can get the message out, make later tasks much harder as the party are now missing vital information. Might be worth sneaking in that tidbit of information to the party via an NPC.

May make the cleric think about his actions first.

Now thats an idea. He now has a curses item in his possession cause he would not list to why she was doing what she was doing. So this should be fun in the future.

[GorogIrongut]

1. The party just killed a Monstrous Centipede and the ranger harvested the Chitin to see if a local black smith could fashion him some stronger light armor.
Allow him to get his fancy armour but only if he's able to find a suitably adept blacksmith. Half of the chitin will be ruined in the process. Identify what kind of armour he would like made. If chitin would be an appropriate material allow him to do it. Use the same stats for the armour but improve one of them by 1. So if he wants a breastplate, allow a +3 dex to AC to occur instead of just a +2. You can pick any of the armour stats and boost them by one... but he'll need to pay for this experimental armour. 1.5 times what he would have paid for normal armour of the sort he wanted.
2. Also our paladin found some obsidian glass that he wants to get turned into an axe. Again IDk how to deal with this new gear. Any help or advice would be helpful thank you.
Allow him to make a very sharp, very dangerous axe. But every time he uses it, on a d20 roll of 15 or higher it shatters. I personally would make it a +1 Waraxe that rerolled 1's when rolling for damage. Along with the shatter mechanics listed above.
3. I also have another player who is rolling with a dwarf forge cleric. He has a cantrip called sacred flame that he can cast every 6 sec. He has used this to ruin two boss encounters where to boss was going to do something or explain their motivation. The min they start talking he throws a hammer then starts counting till his next hammer it thrown( also I have to add this his sacred flame is in the shape of a hammer made of flame that he throws from his hands). How do i get him to stop this mechanically?
Characters have to learn that not everything can or should be beat in combat. So if he continues his 'shoot first and ask questions later' approach, you have a couple options.
First, you put him against something he can't beat. He uses sacred flame. It proceeds to beat him down while letting the rest of the party off lightly for being polite. To rub salt into the wound, the BBEG steals his favourite piece of armour/weapon and puts it over it's mantel as a trophy of war (with a numpty).
Secondly, you could make the BBEG that he starts flaming, actually be a good guy. Your dwarven cleric butchers him mercillessly and earns the enmity and hatred of all towns within a 25 mile radius. All trading he attempts will be at a 50% markup, if they're willing to even trade at all. Innkeepers should give him piss poor fare... and some should even be willing to not welcome him into their inn at all (i.e. he sleeps under the hedgerow for the night).
Thirdly, the BBEG isn't really good or bad. Find something the Cleric of the Forge really cares about, and make the BBEG actually be a neutral character who COULD have helped the Cleric get access to something he really cares about. But since the Cleric jumped the gun and singed off his beard, the BBEG/Neutral character will instead string him along and never actually help him out.

The whole point is to make the player care about the results of his actions. If impetuous action means he will be mocked and lose things he wants (equipment, gold, a warm cozy bed...) Then he will think twice before 'throwing his hammer' without making sure it's safe.

[Bahamut7]

Gorog beat me to it, but he is my $0.02.

Armor: First off I applaud your player for this. I would offer what Gorog said or give him his current armor at +1 or give him a resistance to piercing or slashing damage (not both).

Cleric: The best way in my opinion to handle players that shoot first, shoot some more, and then if anyone is alive shoot again, is to make the world reactive. Have the BBEG or lower level threat escape. They will remember this guy. If they come across him, they shoot first and ask questions later. Throw in a decoy, the person they thought was the BBEG was a prisoner encased in an illusion. The point is to make sure the player thinks before they act when appropriate.

[Naanomi]

Armor: First off I applaud your player for this. I would offer what Gorog said or give him his current armor at +1 or give him a resistance to piercing or slashing damage (not both).
If I were going to give a mechanical effect to it, my first instinct was actually 'Advantage on Stealth checks in the Underground (or wherever they found the bug)'; advantage on checks like that has less mechanical 'oomph' than +1 AC, especially for a low level party, but is still pretty neat to have

[Spellbreaker26]

On the boss monologue thing, that happened to me as well. The best thing to do is to have the boss communicate via illusion before they meet so he can taunt them in safety. It's a bit much to punish a player for going for the safest option.

[War_lord]

Have you tried... Not having your BBEG monologue like a Saturday morning cartoon villain? Seriously, who does that, realistically? If I'm in a party, and we're confronted by someone we know is evil and trying to kill us, of course I'm going to try and get a surprise attack in, unless I'm a super honorable knight or something, I'm going to try to get that hit in.

If you want your villains to have motivations, you need to come up with more subtle delivery then "before I kill you, Sir Bondus, I'm going to monologue my entire life up to this point, and tell you all about my bosses master plan, just because".

[Naanomi]

I'm lucky that my players have a habit of capturing minions to interrogate; often gives them a chance to learn about the villain

[Tanarii]

lol it's killing me that 5 of the last 6 posters have missed the OP clarification. :smallbiggrin:

Sounds like it wasn't just a boss monologue (which I thought it was too) and the PC Cleric shooting first. But rather the Cleric interrupting a PC Paladin (another player) in the process of talking to the BBEG, initiating combat. Then justifying that with "I'm doing what my character would do."

Edit: Basically the Cleric pulled an Conan-esque "enough talk" move, and the party didn't appreciate it.

[Naanomi]

lol it's killing me that 5 of the last 6 posters have missed the OP clarification. :smallbiggrin:
I saw that, but also the OP said it was an ongoing problem so I assumed that monologing/interrogated villain concerns is a regular theme

[Mhl7]

The cleric is a problematic player. You should talk to him about team play. If he keeps that attitude you're in for a bad ride. Probably a story worth of "dnd horror story".

[War_lord]

Generally, if you hear the words "but that's what my character would do", it's time to have the talk with that player about their future prospects. That's never an excuse.

[Spellbreaker26]

Generally, if you hear the words "but that's what my character would do", it's time to have the talk with that player about their future prospects. That's never an excuse.

I mean, it is in some circumstances, but probably not this one.

[War_lord]

I mean, it is in some circumstances, but probably not this one.

If it's a "that's what my character would do" when making a sub-optimal or illogical choice, it's fine. But when it's "but that's what my character would do" used to trod over other players, it's a problem.