Sorcerer Choices mid to late in campaign

[Breashios]

Let’s say the DM has guaranteed the campaign will end before a Human Draconic Sorcerer will receive his 9th level spells, and possibly before he even gets 8th level slots, would you stay as a Sorcerer to the end or switch over to Bard for the versatility? The Sorcerer already plays the role of the party face and the Moon Druid player would like to spend just a little less time healing and more time fighting.

The Sorcerer is 9th level now and will definitely get to 11th (spells known slows after that and the ASI is not needed) before the final climatic showdown. Is there a higher level the Sorcerer should attain? (Wings are not a must have either.) What might be a regret of not continuing as a Sorcerer above 11th level?

[vasilidor]

there are some nice sixth level spells, which you get at level 12. for a face type character I would recomend mass suggestion. to be honest though at this point I would not count on any spells you would get from multiclassing as a bard to help in most of your level appropriate encounters, or any that were of harder difficulty. for multiclassing at this stage you should be looking at low level class features and determine if they are worth the loss of spell advancement. in combat heavy games the answer to this is almost always "no" the exception is if you have the numbers in the party to mitigate their loss. in more social/role play focused games it does not matter as much.

[SharkForce]

i might be more inclined to go paladin than bard.

that said, you could also just take your 12th level in sorcerer and pick up inspiring leader and add a large amount of temporary HP that should help the druid. you could also look for someone else pick up the healer feat for yet even more short rest healing (arcane tricksters can really shine here with their bonus action mage hand at range, thief rogues can do it at touch range). or perhaps you could pick up healer instead of inspiring leader. heck, depending on the druid's plans, even the druid could take that feat (and continue providing healing, just without needing to spend spell slots on it).

also, how many hit dice are getting used up over short rests? people should be using their own built-in healing where possible since it doesn't cost the druid resources that could be used to help win fights more effectively... combined with the above short-rest healing options, the druid should be able to spend a lot less time healing. by the time you're level 11, a barbarian (for example) probably has 5d12 + 15 or more hit points that they can heal per day without losing anything meaningful.

as far as what you lose from not continuing in sorcerer, well... level 7 spells have some interesting things, but nothing *that* mind blowing. unless you're comfortable with spending your downtime turning goblin/hobgoblin/etc prisoners into zombies with finger of death, maybe. don't get me wrong, there are some good spells, but i don't think there's anything where i would say you're absolutely crazy to not stick with sorcerer.

(but seriously, paladin/sorcerer is a pretty nice multiclass, if you can manage the attribute requirements, and will give you some healing to help out the druid... if you're looking for immediate assistance you can offer, a feat will give you more immediate healing support than ).

what does the party as a whole look like, anyways?

[Breashios]

The group has a Paladin now, but he is only 6th level (because we play by experience and he only shows about one third of the time). If he were more regular the Druid wouldn't have that problem (except the Paladin uses all of his spell slots on smites). The lay on hands have brought characters up at critical moments in fights though and did allow the Druid to be a bear for a while in those sessions. When it matters damage tends to accumulate on one or two characters in a given battle, who were either up front or acting foolishly.

I think the inspiring leader might do half the trick, though, and fits the role the character now fills, thanks. Otherwise going to 12th only allows the Sorcerer swap out a lower level spell for one additional six level spell choice and the Sorcerer is the main magic damage dealer already. What he lacks are a variety of means to act in different situations and against different challenges. (Limited actual spells and all.)

Campaign has a good amount of combat, but also social interactions and investigations to set up those encounters.

Aren't there a few up-castable first level spells in the Bard list that could be used with second and fourth level slots? I guess I'll have to study that a bit. If there aren't I guess it would be best to just finish out as Sorcerer.

[Breashios]

also, how many hit dice are getting used up over short rests? people should be using their own built-in healing where possible since it doesn't cost the druid resources that could be used to help win fights more effectively... combined with the above short-rest healing options, the druid should be able to spend a lot less time healing. by the time you're level 11, a barbarian (for example) probably has 5d12 + 15 or more hit points that they can heal per day without losing anything meaningful.

what does the party as a whole look like, anyways?

When the party short rests they can pretty easily get back their hit points. I don't remember a problem at that point. Its more about getting someone up that falls during the encounter or healing between waves of alerted forces responding to party actions in a living complex of enemy forces. (The sorcerer doesn't have web anymore and someone always gets away during a fight.)

The party consists of the Moon Druid, the Sorcerer, an Abjurer, an Arcane Trickster 8/Fighter 1 all at 9th level and the 6th or 7th level Paladin. In the last battle for instance the Abjurer fell unconscious twice because he had moved to the front. (That was not actually for foolish reasons. In fact, it was epic.) The Arcane Trickster was only down half his HP and the Paladin was absent again.

[SharkForce]

well, when that arcane trickster hits the next feat, try to talk him into healer as well, i'd say (unless it really doesn't fit).

like i said, an arcane trickster can use a healer's kit with the mage hand as a bonus action. with the healer feat, that means you are only limited in how often you can get someone back up from 0 by how many healer's kits you can carry.

combined with the inspiring leader feat, that should give your druid a good amount of breathing room :)

[vasilidor]

I have to apologize, got my editions mixed up there for a moment. if I remember in this edition your caster levels stack for determining spell slots per day. in which case going bard may not be as bad as I initially thought. I will have to look things over before I am certain though.

[Breashios]

well, when that arcane trickster hits the next feat, try to talk him into healer as well, i'd say (unless it really doesn't fit).

like i said, an arcane trickster can use a healer's kit with the mage hand as a bonus action. with the healer feat, that means you are only limited in how often you can get someone back up from 0 by how many healer's kits you can carry.

combined with the inspiring leader feat, that should give your druid a good amount of breathing room :)

Hm. That's three levels before the Sorcerer can get inspiring leader and at least 3 before the Arcane Trickster can get the healer feat, and I think he is going back to Arcane Trickster after the 2nd fighter level. I don't remember us even using a healer kit.

Going the other way, the sorcerer could just pick up a level or two of bard now. Hmm?

[Rhedyn]

Let’s say the DM has guaranteed the campaign will end before a Human Draconic Sorcerer will receive his 9th level spells, and possibly before he even gets 8th level slots, would you stay as a Sorcerer to the end or switch over to Bard for the versatility? The Sorcerer already plays the role of the party face and the Moon Druid player would like to spend just a little less time healing and more time fighting.

The Sorcerer is 9th level now and will definitely get to 11th (spells known slows after that and the ASI is not needed) before the final climatic showdown. Is there a higher level the Sorcerer should attain? (Wings are not a must have either.) What might be a regret of not continuing as a Sorcerer above 11th level?
Keep going sorcerer to get higher spell slots for heightened banishment.

1 spell and suddenly you get to fight half the encounter at a time.

[SharkForce]

Hm. That's three levels before the Sorcerer can get inspiring leader and at least 3 before the Arcane Trickster can get the healer feat, and I think he is going back to Arcane Trickster after the 2nd fighter level. I don't remember us even using a healer kit.

Going the other way, the sorcerer could just pick up a level or two of bard now. Hmm?

sure. but he wants to get to sorcerer 11 ASAP because those next few levels make a pretty substantial difference.

[Breashios]

Agreed. Straight to 11th, then revisit. Everything might feel different at that point. We'll see. Thanks everyone.