GrrlPower III: Crisis Of Infinite Filler Comics

[lord_khaine]

Thread dedicated to discus the still popular webcomic Grrl Power (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/48), where we follow/tries to tolerate the antics of the at times scatterbrained Sydney in a wide and diverse cast.

The discussion about what actually constitues filler will no doubt soon begin, but the voices of the people have spoken.

links to the past
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?431652-Grrl-Power-Thread-2-The-Most-Common-Super-Power
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?248414-Grrl-Power

[-D-]

Filler is the stuff from Twinkies, right? #NailedIt

[Celestia]

Filler is what you do after the date. :smallwink:

[lord_khaine]

Filler is what you do after the date.

If the date is good your to tired for much of that though :smalltongue:

[Traab]

I actually disagree with dave here. So long as noone dies, I dont think max would be too upset with sydney. A bit disappointed maybe, but not angry. Yes she did really well in the early fights, but she is still an incredibly under trained and inexperienced person who just got caught with her pants down and had no way to protect herself. Freezing is a natural response. I just figure they might put her through some sort of training designed to help her react better. Probably give her dodge training where she isnt allowed to use her orbs and they ambush her at random times until she learns to think clearly with or without the orbs in place. Helps her get used to the shock of sudden combat and teaches her she has other options available if the orbs arent.

She really isnt supposed to be here. She is a freaking recruit and max wasnt happy about it in the first place. But so far sydney has been doing really well in combat situations and her power set DOES make her really effective against everything they have faced so far, so it was a gamble to take but one with less than terrible odds. Well, now we see why it was a risky bet. A partially trained recruit tends to not always react in the best way under stress.

New prediction. She has had trouble with the ppo before. It doesnt work right, it doesnt work through the shield, the new ability is something unfortunate. Her backup plan is to hold the shield up, and use her com orb to teleport to pixel. Basically, try to regroup with everyone under her shield and either hunker down, or make a new plan. Why teleport instead of fly? Because the robot would be able to follow her flight easier than her teleporting and since a teleport is instant, she can get into position easier.

[lord_khaine]

I honestly think both of the listed reasons are BS. Noone has any right to tell Sydney about how to spend her upgrades, because for all we know they are locked lifechoices.

And well, yeah i guess in theory you should yell at bet at someone for freezing up while a teammate is getting mauled on general principle. But as it were mentioned Sydney is a raw recruit. You can just about expect her to not shoot any teammate. Especially when you have been straight up WASTING training time on making someone who can fly run laps and play with guns.

[AvatarVecna]

I don't know if Maxima would be pissed or not, but I have to say I'm glad we didn't have another month's worth of comics of Sydney freezing up and not doing anything.


If the date is good your to tired for much of that though :smalltongue:

*You're

*Too

[HandofShadows]

I honestly think both of the listed reasons are BS. Noone has any right to tell Sydney about how to spend her upgrades, because for all we know they are locked lifechoices.


Since she more or less is in the military, yes they can.

[Traab]

Since she more or less is in the military, yes they can.

Especially since the whole POINT is an attempt to figure out how the tree works. Right now its raw guesswork, but if they can put together a theory and test it, maybe they can figure out how it works so future upgrade choices arent so random. *EDIT* As for wasting time training, even tank operators have to be able to run a couple miles in a certain time frame. Just because your job involves driving everywhere doesnt mean you get to skip getting into a basic level of shape.

[Forum Explorer]

Especially since the whole POINT is an attempt to figure out how the tree works. Right now its raw guesswork, but if they can put together a theory and test it, maybe they can figure out how it works so future upgrade choices arent so random. *EDIT* As for wasting time training, even tank operators have to be able to run a couple miles in a certain time frame. Just because your job involves driving everywhere doesnt mean you get to skip getting into a basic level of shape.

Which is probably why they wanted her to pick what they thought were flight speed points. They already know her top speed and could find out how much it increased as a result. Instead, they'll have almost no idea what it will do, unless she gets something new with point she spent.


I expect Maxima to be upset about the panicking, but in a reasonable way. Like a sort of 'I was hoping this wouldn't happen, but now that it has I have to empthasize exactly what you should do in a fight so it doesn't happen again.'

[Traab]

Which is probably why they wanted her to pick what they thought were flight speed points. They already know her top speed and could find out how much it increased as a result. Instead, they'll have almost no idea what it will do, unless she gets something new with point she spent.


I expect Maxima to be upset about the panicking, but in a reasonable way. Like a sort of 'I was hoping this wouldn't happen, but now that it has I have to empthasize exactly what you should do in a fight so it doesn't happen again.'

Agreed, maybe even blaming herself a bit. "I may have pushed you too far too fast with all this active duty stuff. From now on anything short of an all hands situation, you are remaining with the other recruits until you finish training." Its understandable really, none of this has been intentional on max's side. Sydney goes to the post press release dinner, they get attacked by almost three dozen enemies. She decides to show sydney a relatively boring meeting with the supernatural? They come under attack by an old enemy. Normally she wouldnt get called in to help, but since she is already there and has shown she can contribute in a big way, max gets pressured into letting her help. So they gave her a low priority location to investigate so they could focus on the more likely ones. Of course thats where the big bad is/was.

[Leewei]

Nice to see Sydney finally stop derping (for now, anyway).

I'm thinking the PPO upgrade will allow it to bypass her shield, which she'll forget to drop.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Nice to see Sydney finally stop derping (for now, anyway).

I'm thinking the PPO upgrade will allow it to bypass her shield, which she'll forget to drop.

So far, things generally needed an upgrade to work inside her shield. Like when she had to improvise a jump-rope for Dabbler because the lighthook only manifests outside the shield.

What I think might happen, is that the PPO will fire in the direction she's aiming, but from some offset point on the shield, causing her to miss the target and hit something else, or just fail to destroy the target with this shot.

[lord_khaine]

I on the other hand fear that Sydney's now even more special ball will turn the murder puppet to ash :smallsigh:

[Traab]

I on the other hand fear that Sydney's now even more special ball will turn the murder puppet to ash :smallsigh:

Im thinking the two options are, misfire where it doesnt work for some reason, (remember, she has had problems using it in the past) or option two, its monstrous overkill and does huge damage to whatever is behind the robot. Causing some sort of incident. PR is a big part of this whole thing, and sydney obliterating a block of warehouses in an incident they cant talk about wont look good for multiple reasons. "Hey, arent you the girl who just joined like, a week ago? What were you doing out here on assignment?"

Or she destroys the factory, thus losing all the evidence they needed to figure out scionas plan. "Great job syd. We have no robot to examine, her entire headquarters was demolished leaving us nothing to search for clues, and we have no idea where she went because all traces have been obliterated. You're on kp duty."

[DataNinja]

Instead, they'll have almost no idea what it will do, unless she gets something new with point she spent.

Hopefully, at least, Krona can figure out something. Maybe. :smalltongue:

[Qwertystop]

For all we know, it was a nonlethal option. She had noted the problem where it didn't have a lower setting.

[Doorhandle]

I on the other hand fear that Sydney's now even more special ball will turn the murder puppet to ash :smallsigh:

I'm going to hedge my bets on the Anime cliche where is IS a super-powerful blast...and the doll walks through it like it was nothing.

[HandofShadows]

Hey that was actually very useful. Now she doesn't have to totally drop her Shield to use the PPO. Unfortunately the murderbot has it's own shield. :smallannoyed:

[lord_khaine]

She already could use the energy beam from inside of her shield, we have seen her do so once before.

[Celestia]

When Sydney says that Sydney needs more training, you know things are bad.

[Traab]

I guess none of us were right. While my theory of her destroying the surrounding area is at least close, it wasnt through some sort of super overkill upgrade, just from her inability to aim 600 rounds per minute and some scatter hit the surroundings. Cool upgrade though. Maybe want to switch back to beam as it looks like the beam is stronger. Those shots deflected into the roof arent slicing through them like butta after all. And a beam might work better on a shield than a few dozen random impacts on random locations.

[Leewei]

I just don't see the benefit of the rapid fire mod. Sydney's original beam was powerful and precise. Now, she can fill a room with blasts with far less precision. Maybe if it's smokey or the enemy is invisible?

Oh, and her opponent now magically (appropriately enough) has a force field and can deflect her attacks, and so can continue to fight.

Props to Sean Mirrsen, who was right about it already operating through her shield. (I wonder if that's what the filled pip between the Shield orb and PPO does.)

Same issues as always with the comic. Great art and concepts, decent dialog, plot advances like molasses flowing in January.

[Traab]

You dont always want to use tank obliterating levels of power, and there may come a time when she is fighting off a large force. But in general, yeah, this looks neat, but is kinda less than optimal. As for the shield out of nowhere, I give it a pass. This robot is being built by someone who is quite clearly going the borg route. Highly adaptable, assimilating every strength other races have into her own, etc etc etc. So of course her robot would have magical shielding of some sort.

[halfeye]

I just don't see the benefit of the rapid fire mod. Sydney's original beam was powerful and precise. Now, she can fill a room with blasts with far less precision. Maybe if it's smokey or the enemy is invisible?

Or mooks. It's why tanks still have machine guns.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The low-power rapid-fire mode is for when you have to worry about overpenetration more than missed shots. Like, say, fighting inside a building or any kind of populated area. Putting out a few dozen small fires and repairing a whole lot of blasted masonry is a lot of work, sure, but it doesn't really compare to having to rebuild a strip of city just because the only way to save the day was a star-powered killbeam.

[Kantaki]

So the new upgrade is a energy shot gun? Nice.

And even if it wasn't useful right now having more options than the tankslicer can't hurt.
Might even tell them something about the skill tree assuming Sydney can roughly remember where she put the skill point.

[tyckspoon]

So the new upgrade is a energy shot gun? Nice.

And even if it wasn't useful right now having more options than the tankslicer can't hurt.
Might even tell them something about the skill tree assuming Sydney can roughly remember where she put the skill point.

PPO has a relatively simple upgrade grid; one loop of dots, each with an attached dot of its own, one line of 5 connected dots, and a single orphan (plus the interconnects to other orbs that they all have.) The line is presumably its power rating; it's at 3, which matches with Sydney's dossier 'blast' rating of 3. The orphan would cause the PPO to do something completely new but kind of related, going off what it did for the telepresence orb; it could be what she put that point in, but given the author comment on this latest comic it's unlikely. "When Sydney gets that branch completely filled out.." so she almost certainly put it in that ring of spaces, the one that already has its entry point and the attached inner space filled. So.. yes, I guess it tells them something - that ring is mode of fire options. No idea what the inner points represent. They could be something different for every alt-fire the PPO has.

Unrelated at the moment: The Lighthook orb has no fewer than 4 of those 'level of effect' lines. They're all at 1, bar the single that is at 3. Weight limit/strength of the hook is a safe guess for one of them.. any ideas on what the other ones represent? Maximum length of tentacle? Number of simultaneous tentacles allowed (Sydney already likes the lighthook, imagine how much fun she'll have if she can go all Doc Ock with them!)

[Traab]

For the ppo options, im thinking full contra. Spread attack, homing, ray, machine gun, flamethrower, crusher missiles, (Short range exploders) that sort of thing. We now have ray and machine gun, im hoping she unlocks homing soon as aim is going to be an issue.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The PPO is star-powered, apparently. So it'd make sense for all of its "fire modes" to literally involve fire, or plasma and heat, in some way.

We know there's a "tank confetti maker" exploding laser setting. There are now rapid-fireballs. I think other modes will include a "firebomb launcher", a "plasma sword", perhaps an actual flamethrower, and maybe a guided plasmaball thing.

[Forum Explorer]

You dont always want to use tank obliterating levels of power, and there may come a time when she is fighting off a large force. But in general, yeah, this looks neat, but is kinda less than optimal. As for the shield out of nowhere, I give it a pass. This robot is being built by someone who is quite clearly going the borg route. Highly adaptable, assimilating every strength other races have into her own, etc etc etc. So of course her robot would have magical shielding of some sort.

She didn't have nearly as much difficulty controlling it, or firing it. I think it's a pretty good upgrade. Remember she took careful aim with the Pew Pew Orb, and she still could barely control it.


The PPO is star-powered, apparently. So it'd make sense for all of its "fire modes" to literally involve fire, or plasma and heat, in some way.

We know there's a "tank confetti maker" exploding laser setting. There are now rapid-fireballs. I think other modes will include a "firebomb launcher", a "plasma sword", perhaps an actual flamethrower, and maybe a guided plasmaball thing.

Since when is it star-powered? I thought that was just a metaphor. :smallconfused:

[Traab]

She didn't have nearly as much difficulty controlling it, or firing it. I think it's a pretty good upgrade. Remember she took careful aim with the Pew Pew Orb, and she still could barely control it.



Since when is it star-powered? I thought that was just a metaphor. :smallconfused:

Thats true enough. But it clearly has a lower damage cap than her laser beam does, going by the environmental damage which could be a big problem in a lot of fights. And too be fair, that was only the second time she has ever USED the ppo, probably the first time on purpose, so having bad aim with it is understandable. I just hope she at least TRIES the original ppo blast before giving up and going on to plan b, but im not holding my breath.

[Onyavar]

Thread dedicated to discus the still popular webcomic Grrl Power (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/48), where we follow/tries to tolerate the antics of the at times scatterbrained Sydney in a wide and diverse cast.

The discussion about what actually constitues filler will no doubt soon begin, but the voices of the people have spoken.

First, I'm complaining about no links to the previous threads. Should be included, please.

Second, I disagree with the "filler" title. There haven't been much filler comics in here, it seems like forever. Unlike the many other comics that regularly update with their "happy own-birthday/merry christmas/yeah-100-pages/convention!/illness"-fillers.
- There is a different definition of "filler" = "comics that happen outside the normal story line and/or are just silly gags". Which I also can't see here.
- Finally, there is the definition that "filler" = "comics that are perceived by some disappointed readers as hindering the main plot" - which is a very subjective thing. If the readers are disappointed with pacing and the story arcs, they are calling each and every update a filler. The prolonged council session and the introduction of a bazillion weres, supers, vampires, were-bunnies and super-jaguars? A filler. The Godsmoot that introduced an entire pantheon for no reason but to stop Roy from directly battling Xykon? A filler. The annoying struggle between Sydney and ADHD? A filler. The pointless battles with ice giants? A filler. Krona's checkpoint? A filler.

I strongly disagree with that last definition. It's arbitrary and very snarky, not to say insulting the author. Grrlpower has been discussed here with much less contempt than Deegan/Starpower, and in my opinion it's not bad enough to deserve that contempt and constant snarking.

That said, in my opinion too, Dave is making poor choices in his storytelling. But that's a personal opinion which I expressed in the previous thread already. If this new thread is, per the title, just dedicated to snarkers who vent about Dave's "fillers", then count me out.

[lord_khaine]

First, I'm complaining about no links to the previous threads. Should be included, please.

Really? has anyone ever done anything whatsoever with those links? i left them out because it seemed like it were a pointless tradition noone actually did anything with.

But yeah, other than that then i agree with the fillar part, the pacing might be glacial at times, and perhaps waste to much time on Sydney spassing out. But you can set your clock after the update scedule, and we are getting a full comic every single time, with no breaks or stuff from outside the comic universe for a year or so as far as i recall.

[Traab]

Honestly, the only issue I have with the pacing is that with a twice a week update schedule, it takes forever for events to play out even when they are fairly straightforward. Lets use the super brawl as an example. That was not filler by any means. It was an epic battle and quite honestly, most of the fights took a comic or two at most to resolve and move on to the next. But because it only updated twice a week, it took a very VERY long time to finish, the better part of a year in fact. Had this been a normal comic book that would have been like, two issues. One for the general brawl and to introduce vehemence, and one for that fight and the wrapup, and noone would have complained about the pacing.

[Yuki Akuma]

Traditionally, webcomic thread titles on this forum are just stupid jokes or puns.

It's not an indication of what direction the thread is intended to go in. It's just for fun.

Also: I use the links to previous threads in the OP sometimes, so I think they should still be there. It's Tradition™, just like the dumb joke titles.

[Celestia]

Had this been a normal comic book that would have been like, two issues. One for the general brawl and to introduce vehemence, and one for that fight and the wrapup, and noone would have complained about the pacing.
Untrue. I've binge read the entire comic twice now. It's still super slow.

[Leewei]

Unrelated at the moment: The Lighthook orb has no fewer than 4 of those 'level of effect' lines. They're all at 1, bar the single that is at 3. Weight limit/strength of the hook is a safe guess for one of them.. any ideas on what the other ones represent? Maximum length of tentacle? Number of simultaneous tentacles allowed (Sydney already likes the lighthook, imagine how much fun she'll have if she can go all Doc Ock with them!)

Looking closely, the Lighthook has a line connecting it to each other orb. Each line has a socket, none of which is filled. The 'hook also has three socket arcs with 5-6 sockets each. One six-socket arc has three sockets filled. Lastly, there's an unfilled single socket node. Aesthetically, the three arcs and the single node somewhat resemble a claw and a thumb. At a guess, the three arcs represent different physical capabilities of the 'hook. Raw power is probably one of these. Number of 'hooks could be another, and perhaps reach would be the final arc. The single socket likely represents a completely new function, although I've no idea what that may be.

The sockets on lines connecting the orbs would probably be synergistic powers using both orbs. For instance, Shield + Lighthook might allow Sydney to project a shield around anyone being held in the 'hook.

[lord_khaine]

Fine! fine.. the people have spoken, and more than one are using the past threads.
Links have been installed, but i were lazy about it.

[Leewei]

No good deed goes unpunished.

[AvatarVecna]

Really? has anyone ever done anything whatsoever with those links? i left them out because it seemed like it were a pointless tradition noone actually did anything with.

But yeah, other than that then i agree with the fillar part, the pacing might be glacial at times, and perhaps waste to much time on Sydney spassing out. But you can set your clock after the update scedule, and we are getting a full comic every single time, with no breaks or stuff from outside the comic universe for a year or so as far as i recall.

I think part of the point is for finding those archived threads long after they've disappeared from the normal sub-forum for most people, if you want to see discussion surrounding a particular comic before bringing it up in regards to something recent (or even just to quote old discussions). It's not a huge problem for this particular comic, since this is only the third thread, but tracking down stuff in old Girl Genius threads will be hard enough searching the previous 20 threads for it without adding the extra steps of tracking down each thread using google.


Untrue. I've binge read the entire comic twice now. It's still super slow.

Thrice for me (for various reasons). I think the stuff pre-big fight was paced just fine, since the "world-building exposition" stuff is more appropriate for "still setting up the story and it's world" parts of the story, and the fight itself was, for the most part, very well-paced (it seemed to drag near the end, but after reading the whole fight from beginning to end, the end of it doesn't drag as much as I recall, and I blame the additional dissatisfaction on the update schedule as well). Since the fight, though, there's been a lot of mini-arcs showing off new aspects of the world, building it up more; some of them have been weaved into the ongoing plot well enough, some...were not. No individual arc is uninteresting, to be sure, but there's enough of them that it gets grating, and the update schedule doesn't help.

As far as definitions of filler goes, the epitome of it for me is stuff like the multiple comics dedicated to introducing a dude who can make small amounts of liquids and explaining why his power isn't total BS, or the time when the character's attempts to continue the conversation was interrupted twice in the same comic, with one interruption being the fixing of a low-level wardrobe malfunction. (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2270) Viewing that single comic on its own, it seems like it's attempting to cutely hang a lampshade on how the big international meeting is being delayed to explain the backstory to the one new person present, but coming after the tons of exposition that this council meeting has been preceded by, it comes off as going quite slow. This stuff isn't considered filler because it's not interesting on its own, but because it's on the table of "things that could be inconsequentially cut if it seems like the comic is dragging too much when it gets made into a graphic novel".

[Traab]

New update and good work sydney! She is delaying it just by creating this impasse. Though i think she just pissed off the robot somehow. Nice choice too, you dont let it reassemble its weaponry if you can stop it. Makes me wonder if she should try to wrap it up in her lighthook. Basically, keep it busy without trying to actually destroy it.

[Forum Explorer]

Thats true enough. But it clearly has a lower damage cap than her laser beam does, going by the environmental damage which could be a big problem in a lot of fights. And too be fair, that was only the second time she has ever USED the ppo, probably the first time on purpose, so having bad aim with it is understandable. I just hope she at least TRIES the original ppo blast before giving up and going on to plan b, but im not holding my breath.

I like how in this comic she's explicitly told they don't trust her to not mess up using the cutting beam of the PPO. :smallamused:

[HandofShadows]

Hey, SHE dosen't trust herself not to mess it up with the cutting beam. She's learning.

[Traab]

Uh oh, things may get a bit more tricky now. Time to see if her shield can continue to hold up, or if there is some sort of weakness to it. Keep a hand on that com orb sydney, you may need to teleport in a hurry. She may need to teleport in a hurry anyways if the robot decides to go after the others. I think right now only her and harem are in fighting trim, and harem cant do diddly against the robot.

[Spamotron]

Actually Harem can combine her bodies to be almost as strong as Anvil. She doesn't like doing it because she values the ability to experience and act on 5 different things at once far more than physical strength. Very sensibly most of the time since that's a unique asset nobody else can do and ArcSwat already has plenty of superstrong bricks that are more skilled at using said strength.

[halfeye]

Maxima in 3, 2, ...

Max is mach 4 capable, the Osprey which is mach 0.5 or less is almost there.

[Traab]

Actually Harem can combine her bodies to be almost as strong as Anvil. She doesn't like doing it because she values the ability to experience and act on 5 different things at once far more than physical strength. Very sensibly most of the time since that's a unique asset nobody else can do and ArcSwat already has plenty of superstrong bricks that are more skilled at using said strength.

She is roughly 16x stronger than a regular human with one body. Thats pretty strong and all, but lets face it, if they need physical strength, sydney is a better option, seeing as her lighthook can lift 15 tons. Which is WAY more than what 16 teenagers could lift. Harem couldnt even lift 1 ton by that measurement. (Basically, im assuming an average 19 year old girl cant lift 140 pounds easily.) Anvils real strength is her kinetic absorption ability.

[lord_khaine]

Sydney is the best option there because she is very safe inside of her shield, unlike people who need to grapple with murderbots.

I am still disapointed that all of Harem are not there as backup right now though, this is a freaking emergency. Especially with the last upgrade, this nicely ups the ante, and explains a little further what makes this golem so special. Just god forbid it getting more samples.

[Traab]

Todays update is fun, its like a female achilles. "Oh so you are going to try to bury me in rubble? Thats neat. Wont work, but its a nice try. Oh too bad your whole adaptation thing was also useless. Ah well. Stick around and keep trying, im sure it will work eventually." Honestly, I would have totally used the flight orb to just hover right where the floor used to be. Let it drop from under me and be like, "Ok. . . now what?" Because now she has to blast free of rubble and hope the robot didnt wander off towards the injured and NOT functionally invulnerable party members.

[Traab]

Next update, hmm, looks like the a team is showing up. Lets see if this turns into a master class of casual super bot destruction. Or if Anvil gets neutralized. Im honestly hoping for casual destruction just in an effort to show that vast suite of awesome powers and genre savvy or not, sydney still has a lot to learn about how to use them properly.

[lord_khaine]

Well the strategy is good enough, using a distraction to land a kinetic missile on top of the Husk. Im just not certain if its a wise choice after it mimiced pixels powers. The laser mace could hurt Anvil really bad as her main defence is absorbing kinetic energy.

Else, im divided on if i want the battle to end swiftly myself now. On one hand i like the idea of it getting shown that Sydney still has a lot to learn, as well as of this fight getting wrapped up.
On the other hand i dislike the idea of the Elite Husk being taken down so easily. Until now it has only thrown a Arc-light agent though a building and plinged ineffectively at Sydney's shield.

[Traab]

Well the strategy is good enough, using a distraction to land a kinetic missile on top of the Husk. Im just not certain if its a wise choice after it mimiced pixels powers. The laser mace could hurt Anvil really bad as her main defence is absorbing kinetic energy.

Else, im divided on if i want the battle to end swiftly myself now. On one hand i like the idea of it getting shown that Sydney still has a lot to learn, as well as of this fight getting wrapped up.
On the other hand i dislike the idea of the Elite Husk being taken down so easily. Until now it has only thrown a Arc-light agent though a building and plinged ineffectively at Sydney's shield.

In its defense, it has knocked pixel, harem, and krona out of the fight in various ways. Sydney seems incapable of destroying it without creating massive amounts of havoc and destruction to the surrounding area, (If it would even work) so it has stalemated sydney. I mean, its no Vehemence, but thats not bad overall. And yeah, the laser spiked mace thing could be bad for anvil. The kinetic damage from the mace hitting her is fine, the lasers? That could be problematic.

[lord_khaine]

Well.. it certainly did give Pixel a nasty surprise, but Krona is not worth much in a straight up fight, and she did more or less take herself out by falling off a building. Harem has then meanwhile been occupied playing babysitter for the rest of the team, and we have not even seen more than 1/5 of her.

it should also be commented it has newer had to deal with more than one heroine at the time. So no, i would not call it directly bad, but in no way impressive either.

[Traab]

Well.. it certainly did give Pixel a nasty surprise, but Krona is not worth much in a straight up fight, and she did more or less take herself out by falling off a building. Harem has then meanwhile been occupied playing babysitter for the rest of the team, and we have not even seen more than 1/5 of her.

it should also be commented it has newer had to deal with more than one heroine at the time. So no, i would not call it directly bad, but in no way impressive either.

Admittedly, aside from sydney the only heavy hitter there is pixel, so its hard to judge just how powerful it really is, but I suppose in the end it may come down to, is this meant to be a single ultra bot? Or is it the prototype for a small army of this thing? While max could probably feed any dozen of these bots its feet and make it swallow, a solid squad of these would be pretty lethal for most of the council folks at the very least. As for harem, she is of very VERY limited value in this fight. She has no offensive arsenal that could be applied here, her physical might, even with one body only is 1/15th of what sydney could manage using her light hook. Her extra inertia drop kick skill is a bad bad idea, because physics man. She will be slamming into a solid metal robot body at high speeds, im pretty sure her bones will crumple before its framework.

[Leewei]

The battle golem itself is probably a distraction intended to allow Sciona to get away. It'd sure be refreshing if Maxima went off and took her out while the golem fight took place.

[halfeye]

Could the 'bot be Sciona in armour?

[lord_khaine]

Im not even certain if i would call Pixe a heavy hitter, medium at best, while Sydney can barely be considdered a hitter until she has gotten some experience.
As for Harems Inertia kick, then we got to assume her bones get a boost along with her muscles. Just like every other hero with super strenght, who otherwise would not have been able to use their power.


The battle golem itself is probably a distraction intended to allow Sciona to get away. It'd sure be refreshing if Maxima went off and took her out while the golem fight took place.

Why do one thing when you can do two? Its most likely both a distraction and a field testing of the thing. :smalltongue:


Could the 'bot be Sciona in armour?

Kinda unlikely, we have seen it under construction, and it hardly fits with the tentacle arms the Husk has.

[Traab]

Im not even certain if i would call Pixe a heavy hitter, medium at best, while Sydney can barely be considdered a hitter until she has gotten some experience.
As for Harems Inertia kick, then we got to assume her bones get a boost along with her muscles. Just like every other hero with super strenght, who otherwise would not have been able to use their power.



Why do one thing when you can do two? Its most likely both a distraction and a field testing of the thing. :smalltongue:



Kinda unlikely, we have seen it under construction, and it hardly fits with the tentacle arms the Husk has.

I more meant on the team sydney was with. She is clearly the most effective fighter on the team, her laser claws sliced through the bot like butta, and she had the reflexes of an experienced fighter even if she took a nasty shot at the end there. And yeah harem gets tougher im sure, I still think she would take more damage than the robot from a terminal velocity drop kick. Even in a single body she ranks pretty low on the super strength scale compared to everyone else on that ladder.

[lord_khaine]

Even in a single body she ranks pretty low on the super strength scale compared to everyone else on that ladder.

It still leaves her decently placed as one of the strongest members on the team. And she is the third most skilled fighter as well, only surpassed by Math and Dabbler.

Else, well played to Dave, this was a twist i did not see comming. That its not a robot kinda changes everything.

[Traab]

It still leaves her decently placed as one of the strongest members on the team. And she is the third most skilled fighter as well, only surpassed by Math and Dabbler.

Else, well played to Dave, this was a twist i did not see comming. That its not a robot kinda changes everything.

When it comes to raw physical power, she would be behind maxima, stalwart, and hiro at least, and while base strength is roughly equal to anvil, the second she uses her kinetic absorption that goes out the window. Even amorphus seems to have a similar level of strength to go with his rubber body, and as was established earlier on, sydneys lighthook can lift 15 tons, which is about 15x stronger than harem can be even in one body. So at best she is 5th on the strength scale of her group, she could be as far back as 7th depending on specifics. I cant speak for her hand to hand combat abilities but she really just isnt that strong. Superhuman sure, but very very low end superhuman.

[Leewei]

Else, well played to Dave, this was a twist i did not see comming. That its not a robot kinda changes everything.

We haven't yet seen its final form. We'll be lucky if this fight ends by August.

[lord_khaine]

When it comes to raw physical power, she would be behind maxima, stalwart, and hiro at least, and while base strength is roughly equal to anvil, the second she uses her kinetic absorption that goes out the window. Even amorphus seems to have a similar level of strength to go with his rubber body, and as was established earlier on, sydneys lighthook can lift 15 tons, which is about 15x stronger than harem can be even in one body. So at best she is 5th on the strength scale of her group, she could be as far back as 7th depending on specifics. I cant speak for her hand to hand combat abilities but she really just isnt that strong. Superhuman sure, but very very low end superhuman.

I dont count the lighthook as its not actual superstrenght, just a single superstrong tentacle. And acording to the official data Anvil is already stronger than her, as are Mr. Amorpheous. But even a 6th place is good when its out of a group of 13.
The reason for why i can comment on her hand to hand abilities is that they are actively listed on her cast page, and i kinda disagree about the very, very low end superhuman. She does have 2 dots in strenght. And just one of them already pushes her into the superhuman catagory.

[Traab]

I dont count the lighthook as its not actual superstrenght, just a single superstrong tentacle. And acording to the official data Anvil is already stronger than her, as are Mr. Amorpheous. But even a 6th place is good when its out of a group of 13.
The reason for why i can comment on her hand to hand abilities is that they are actively listed on her cast page, and i kinda disagree about the very, very low end superhuman. She does have 2 dots in strenght. And just one of them already pushes her into the superhuman catagory.

Yeah but it becomes significantly less good when almost everyone whose powers include super strength is rated higher than you. 5 of the 13 characters on that list dont even have a strength pip. Of the 8 that do she is weaker than 6 of them. When you are comparing her to people that can move space shuttles, or fly around hauling fully loaded commercial buses, lifting a sub compact car just isnt that impressive. Yes she is still super strong, but in comparison to every other super strong character, she is barely above the bottom rung of people who basically only count as super strong through a technicality.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah but it becomes significantly less good when almost everyone whose powers include super strength is rated higher than you. 5 of the 13 characters on that list dont even have a strength pip. Of the 8 that do she is weaker than 6 of them. When you are comparing her to people that can move space shuttles, or fly around hauling fully loaded commercial buses, lifting a sub compact car just isnt that impressive. Yes she is still super strong, but in comparison to every other super strong character, she is barely above the bottom rung of people who basically only count as super strong through a technicality.

At the same time though, higher tiers of super strenght is past a certain point only of limited use except against someone with a high tier armor power that need to be breached.
Maths fight against Concretia clearly showed how superior fighting ability can make it up for a minimal degree of super strenght.

[-D-]

We haven't yet seen its final form. We'll be lucky if this fight ends by August.
Called it :p

[lord_khaine]

Called it :p

Doesnt make to much sense. We have not seen it actually change form, and there are long to August.

[-D-]

Doesnt make to much sense. We have not seen it actually change form, and there are long to August.

It's a tongue in cheek joke (no, I don't believe it will last that long). Although it would be hilarious if it did last till August (or heck July). Still, May is looking very likely now :smalleek:.

[Leewei]

Doesnt make to much sense. We have not seen it actually change form, and there are long to August.

August is only four months away. The Vehemence battle went for several months even after he was the only antagonist left standing. The battle bot has showed new capabilities and a personality, now. It's pretty reasonable to expect the fight to continue to escalate DBZ-style, the same way it did with Vehemence.

[Traab]

Well, time to see if extreme physical violence is enough to do the job. Ok, thursday it will be time. Itll take at least that long for all the debris to settle. :smalltongue:

[lord_khaine]

August is only four months away. The Vehemence battle went for several months even after he was the only antagonist left standing. The battle bot has showed new capabilities and a personality, now. It's pretty reasonable to expect the fight to continue to escalate DBZ-style, the same way it did with Vehemence.

Well.. i am going to wager a beer that you have to pick up yourself, on this not lasting all the way though next month :smalltongue:

Its not suposed to be the end boss, so i think its unlikely to be dragged out further.

Actually story-wise, then this is fitting nicely. It has just shown enough personality to evoke sympathy from us when Anvil hammer it though a building and leaves it in a broken heap.
Dont think its going to stay down for long though, we have already seen it regenerate.

[Leewei]

Well.. i am going to wager a beer that you have to pick up yourself, on this not lasting all the way though next month :smalltongue:

Its not suposed to be the end boss, so i think its unlikely to be dragged out further.

Actually story-wise, then this is fitting nicely. It has just shown enough personality to evoke sympathy from us when Anvil hammer it though a building and leaves it in a broken heap.
Dont think its going to stay down for long though, we have already seen it regenerate.

Anvil and Hiro are now onsite. The "golem" has displayed the ability to grow, regenerate, and reason. There are four more updates in April, then another nine in May. I can see us easily getting through that with the antagonist Anvil was dropped on next to earlier.

I hope I'm wrong, though!

[lord_khaine]

I meanwhile cant see the conflict lasting that long. Especially not with Hiro now joining in.
Though the actual question of what to do with the dam thing, now its not just a machine that can be trashed might remain.

[-D-]

I meanwhile cant see the conflict lasting that long. Especially not with Hiro now joining in.

I see two reasons: Anvil and Hiro.
Lots of samples for golem to acquire and reuse.

[Leewei]

I see two reasons: Anvil and Hiro.
Lots of samples for golem to acquire and reuse.

Yeah, acquiring laser claws was a double barreled Chekhov's Gun.
1) It can draw their blood.
2) It can adapt their powers.

This certainly looks like it's heading into A.M.A.Z.O. fight territory.

Mainly, though, I'm thinking it'll get drawn out because that's how it always happens in Grrlpower.

[lord_khaine]

I see two reasons: Anvil and Hiro.
Lots of samples for golem to acquire and reuse.

The problem is getting the samples in the first place, as well as getting a chance to analyse them.
To even draw a sample the golem (and im not even certain thats the right word now we know its sentient), need to score a hit with its laser mace and hope it dont cauterise the wound.
And actually be able to breach the skin of Hiro.

[BannedInSchool]

New comic: Yoicks. Fight mental powers with mental powers? Go, go, succubus seducing!

[Traab]

Well. . . this could be a problem. Maybe she will be resistant? I mean, when vehemence activated that agro aura thing, it didnt seem to make maxima go crazy with violence. I mean sure she was pinned by the neck, but still, it didnt seem like it had any effect.

[Leewei]

New antagonist power revealed. I'd now like to revise my August end-of-battle to September.

[lord_khaine]

Well. . . this could be a problem. Maybe she will be resistant? I mean, when vehemence activated that agro aura thing, it didnt seem to make maxima go crazy with violence. I mean sure she was pinned by the neck, but still, it didnt seem like it had any effect.

I just cant see any logical reason for why she should be resistant to this. She has been shown a few times to have the mind of a regular human, with all the flaws and emotions that follow along.

As for the Agro Aura Vehemence had, we cant know if he specifically excluded Max from its area of effect, due to not wanting it to give her a sudden boost of endurance. And for all we know she were affected, but the aura did not make people go crazy or mindless, it just made them fight whoever were closest. And Max already had a opponent to focus her attention on.

[Traab]

I just cant see any logical reason for why she should be resistant to this. She has been shown a few times to have the mind of a regular human, with all the flaws and emotions that follow along.

As for the Agro Aura Vehemence had, we cant know if he specifically excluded Max from its area of effect, due to not wanting it to give her a sudden boost of endurance. And for all we know she were affected, but the aura did not make people go crazy or mindless, it just made them fight whoever were closest. And Max already had a opponent to focus her attention on.

The big aura reveal page clearly shows symbols directly under maxima and vehemence, so its likely it would effect her too and she was thinking pretty clearly about how she had to break free of his hold. I mean, even if she IS resistant to the aura, it doesnt automatically follow that a direct single target mind control attempt would work the same. So I dunno.

[-D-]

New comic: Yoicks. Fight mental powers with mental powers? Go, go, succubus seducing!
Does that work on robots? Or where you thinking Maxima? This could be the moment Dabbler, finally gets into Max pants and live to tell the tale.

[BannedInSchool]

Does that work on robots? Or where you thinking Maxima? This could be the moment Dabbler, finally gets into Max pants and live to tell the tale.
Yes, I meant seducing Max to counteract the vampire mind control. :smallbiggrin:

[-D-]

Yes, I meant seducing Max to counteract the vampire mind control. :smallbiggrin:

If Anita Blake taught me anything (other than furries aren't my thing), then this yes, this is a possible scenario :smallsigh:.

[tomandtish]

Well. . . this could be a problem. Maybe she will be resistant? I mean, when vehemence activated that agro aura thing, it didnt seem to make maxima go crazy with violence. I mean sure she was pinned by the neck, but still, it didnt seem like it had any effect.


I just cant see any logical reason for why she should be resistant to this. She has been shown a few times to have the mind of a regular human, with all the flaws and emotions that follow along.

As for the Agro Aura Vehemence had, we cant know if he specifically excluded Max from its area of effect, due to not wanting it to give her a sudden boost of endurance. And for all we know she were affected, but the aura did not make people go crazy or mindless, it just made them fight whoever were closest. And Max already had a opponent to focus her attention on.

Simple truth is that we don't have enough information to tell. Max didn't appear affected, but there are quite a few reason why that might be the case.

If she wasn't affected:

1) She was already in active hand to hand combat. Everyone else technically wasn't.

2) Whatever the electricity shooting through her head is might have countered it.

3) She MIGHT be immune.

Or, she might have been affected but since he is closest is going after him. After all, is Dabbler affected? She's targeting him and looks like she's planning on trying to kill him ("Let's see him regenerate his brain stem") but then is attacked by someone closer. So is she impacted or just being aggressive?

Short version: We don't have enough info to know if Max was affected by the aggro, and can't use anything from that fight to speculate if she's affected now.

(Before someone says yellow eyes, technically the only ones we saw with yellow eyes were ones who appeared to be woken up by the effect. We never saw Hiro or Stalwart with them).

[Forum Explorer]

Simple truth is that we don't have enough information to tell. Max didn't appear affected, but there are quite a few reason why that might be the case.

If she wasn't affected:

1) She was already in active hand to hand combat. Everyone else technically wasn't.

2) Whatever the electricity shooting through her head is might have countered it.

3) She MIGHT be immune.

Or, she might have been affected but since he is closest is going after him. After all, is Dabbler affected? She's targeting him and looks like she's planning on trying to kill him ("Let's see him regenerate his brain stem") but then is attacked by someone closer. So is she impacted or just being aggressive?

Short version: We don't have enough info to know if Max was affected by the aggro, and can't use anything from that fight to speculate if she's affected now.

(Before someone says yellow eyes, technically the only ones we saw with yellow eyes were ones who appeared to be woken up by the effect. We never saw Hiro or Stalwart with them).

You missed the most likely reason;

4. She was excluded, because V didn't want to remove her self-restraint on her big boom attack, and cause her to blow everyone straight to hell.

[Traab]

You missed the most likely reason;

4. She was excluded, because V didn't want to remove her self-restraint on her big boom attack, and cause her to blow everyone straight to hell.

That is possible, he wouldnt be aware that in order to do that she would weaken herself enough to squash like an insect.

[lord_khaine]

Heh.. does seem like my reading of the situation were correct, we are still in April and the situation is already winding down. :smalltongue:

[HandofShadows]

LOVE how Anvil is diving behind Sydney. :smallbiggrin:

[-D-]

Heh.. does seem like my reading of the situation were correct, we are still in April and the situation is already winding down. :smalltongue:
Congratulations on winning a debate, that was solely in your head. You've earned it my friend; You've earned it :smallbiggrin:

Or is it :smalleek:? Dun Dun Dun

Answer: Yeah, I think this is done basically.

[lord_khaine]

I did love myself how this showed that actual mental assult is a viable tactic to use against Max. Even if it also showed it sucks to have damaged gear and enemy reinforcements.

[Traab]

Its about as viable as any other tactic really. If its immensely powerful it might work, otherwise its a wasted effort. Same for punches, energy blasts, and harsh language. It might hurt her, but it better be a REALLY good try. Apparently she has no particular weakness to domination attempts, though we cant be sure if she is as resistant to them as she is to physical attacks. I wonder if the attempt would have worked on a shielded sydney?

[Leewei]

New antagonist power revealed. I'd now like to revise my August end-of-battle to September.
Quoting one's self is probably a sign of narcissism, but I have to point out now that:

It looks like I'm very, very wrong -- and I'm delighted by it.

[BannedInSchool]

Aww, so much for Max being shaken by being mentally dominated. I thought that would be an interesting character twist.

[lord_khaine]

Its about as viable as any other tactic really. If its immensely powerful it might work, otherwise its a wasted effort. Same for punches, energy blasts, and harsh language. It might hurt her, but it better be a REALLY good try. Apparently she has no particular weakness to domination attempts, though we cant be sure if she is as resistant to them as she is to physical attacks. I wonder if the attempt would have worked on a shielded sydney?

I think it might be more precise to say that she has no particular resistance towards mind control?
If you punch or stab Max her force field is going to make it a excersie in futility. But if you assult her mind with your own you just need to be of stronger will than her.

good question about Sydneys shield though. Really cant say.. Dabbler did work though the shield.

[Leewei]

Vehemence didn't get through the shield. I'm guessing it'd block the "golem" from affecting her.

[Traab]

I think it might be more precise to say that she has no particular resistance towards mind control?
If you punch or stab Max her force field is going to make it a excersie in futility. But if you assult her mind with your own you just need to be of stronger will than her.

good question about Sydneys shield though. Really cant say.. Dabbler did work though the shield.

The dabbler thing was hot girl doing jump rope, not mind control. She didnt implant commands into his head (well, no more than any hot girl doing the same thing would have done) And like was said, it did stop the agro aura, both the subtle one everyone was fighting under at the start, and the boosted one that was able to awaken drugged and unconscious people. So im inclined to think it would fail to work against her. As for Max, I dunno, we really cant be sure if her mind control resistance is also super or not. Its not like we have much to compare it to. Best I can think of is, dabbler was able to booby hypnotize everyone male and female at the vehemence fight, except for max and sydney, (who was probably not looking at her on purpose) So unless she is like, pure hetero, its possible her mental control is stronger than average.

[tyckspoon]

The dabbler thing was hot girl doing jump rope, not mind control. She didnt implant commands into his head (well, no more than any hot girl doing the same thing would have done)

Slightly mind control, actually, and possibly more than that; Dabbler has a variety of spells for making people pay attention to her. Remember Sydney's introductory meeting with the higher-ups, when Dabbler first walked in and everybody is thinking "Remember, I'm not actually a lesbian" or variations on "Don't hit on her, can't hit on her, it would be immoral/unethical/against regulations"? That wasn't because Dabbler is just an attractive hot girl, she walks around with a spell for that. And IIRC she once told Sydney that her breasts are literally hypnotic, just as part of her Succubus nature.

[Celestia]

Slightly mind control, actually, and possibly more than that; Dabbler has a variety of spells for making people pay attention to her. Remember Sydney's introductory meeting with the higher-ups, when Dabbler first walked in and everybody is thinking "Remember, I'm not actually a lesbian" or variations on "Don't hit on her, can't hit on her, it would be immoral/unethical/against regulations"? That wasn't because Dabbler is just an attractive hot girl, she walks around with a spell for that. And IIRC she once told Sydney that her breasts are literally hypnotic, just as part of her Succubus nature.
The way I read it, they weren't trying to remind themselves of their sexuality. That would be absurd. They were trying to suppress thoughts that made them feel uncomfortable because they don't think of themselves in that way.

[Traab]

She does have a glamour aura that makes her be extra sexy in addition to whatever gorgeous body she is disguised as. Its not always up as when maxima told her to dial it down she did, but yeah, thats there. As far as we can tell though, that has a very visible speech bubble change. She wasnt using that super sexy aura, she was just using her body's natural seductive quality (she is smoking hot and stacked in "perfect" proportions) to draw the eyes of everyone around her. Lets face it, anyone here attracted to the female gender has probably seen either a video or in real life a braless woman jumping for whatever reason and been distracted for at least a couple seconds. No super power behind it, just biology. Eyes are attracted to motion, said motion is an attractive person doing something very enjoyable to watch, so we watch till we can snap out of it. In her case its a very murky area because, as she said, her body is literally hypnotic. Its an automatic thing, not something she has to activate, so its hard to tell if what got through the shield was a literal mind effecting bit of magic, or just hot sexy lady bouncing quite enjoyably.

[lord_khaine]

No, i absolutely refuse to believe that anyone over the age of 20 is going to be that distracted by a pretty woman jumping up and down. Especially not someone who are locked in a life and death struggle.
The comic in question, 281, makes it clear that Vehemence not only pauses in what he were doing to glance at the motion, he actually gets entranched by the sight like everyone else. His grip begins to losen, and his pupils dialate.

Along with dabbler saying that her breasts are litterally hypnotic, then i think its very clear that at least some effects are to subtle to be blocked by the shield.


So unless she is like, pure hetero, its possible her mental control is stronger than average.

I think its a bit more likely that the electro therapy and choking kept Max's mind on more pressing matters..

[Traab]

No, i absolutely refuse to believe that anyone over the age of 20 is going to be that distracted by a pretty woman jumping up and down. Especially not someone who are locked in a life and death struggle.
The comic in question, 281, makes it clear that Vehemence not only pauses in what he were doing to glance at the motion, he actually gets entranched by the sight like everyone else. His grip begins to losen, and his pupils dialate.

Along with dabbler saying that her breasts are litterally hypnotic, then i think its very clear that at least some effects are to subtle to be blocked by the shield.



I think its a bit more likely that the electro therapy and choking kept Max's mind on more pressing matters..

Dont forget, she was also the only one who had no problem ignoring dabbler doing her super sexy thing at the initial meeting. Everyone else was blushing, fighting against their attraction etc, not her, she just got pissed. So her being super resistant to mind effects seems more likely. That may be why dabbler messes with her so much, its probably rare to come across someone who doesnt start stuttering and blushing when she turns on the charm. I know, we are kinda jumping back and forth between sydney and her shield and maximas innate mental resistance.

[lord_khaine]

Dont forget, she was also the only one who had no problem ignoring dabbler doing her super sexy thing at the initial meeting. Everyone else was blushing, fighting against their attraction etc, not her, she just got pissed. So her being super resistant to mind effects seems more likely. That may be why dabbler messes with her so much, its probably rare to come across someone who doesnt start stuttering and blushing when she turns on the charm. I know, we are kinda jumping back and forth between sydney and her shield and maximas innate mental resistance.

Well, if you want to pause and handle this subject then fine :smalltongue:

And as for comic 101, how can we know that Max had no problems resisting Dabblers entrance? Yeah sure she seemed pissed at the surface, and no doubt she also were since Dabbler were fooling around as usual.
But Max were the only person at the scene whose thoughs were not revealed. For all we know she were struggling with the urge to tear all of Dabblers clothes off.

And being angry either were the perfect cover up for her emotions (its actually a rather common reaction), or since sexuality is a minefield for Max, then the sudden attracting towards Dabbler, that she knew came from the lust aura just served to make her even more angry than her default grumpy state.

After all, both General Faulk and Zephan managed to keep their composure as well. They were only revealed by their thoughts.

[Traab]

I dunno, I think the fact that she pretty clearly felt the attempt and reacted with anger than arousal is enough of a clue to work with. She instantly recognized a seriously boosted seduction aura and got pissed while everyone else got aroused. Even the demonology expert who knows precisely what she can do was caught up in it.

[Forum Explorer]

Dont forget, she was also the only one who had no problem ignoring dabbler doing her super sexy thing at the initial meeting. Everyone else was blushing, fighting against their attraction etc, not her, she just got pissed. So her being super resistant to mind effects seems more likely. That may be why dabbler messes with her so much, its probably rare to come across someone who doesnt start stuttering and blushing when she turns on the charm. I know, we are kinda jumping back and forth between sydney and her shield and maximas innate mental resistance.

Maybe she just hates Dabbler and resisted it that way? Hard to have a hard on for someone when they disgust you so severely. (And it would be an interesting take on their relationship. Dabbler thinks they are friendly rivals, while Maxima only tolerates Dabbler for professional reasons)

[lord_khaine]

Previous point still stand. Both Faulk and Zephan managed to hide any outward reaktion, its only their thoughts that revealed they were turned on.

And we dont have access to Maxima's thoughts, how then can we know she were not aroused as well? And just hiding it like those two?

Because everyone clearly felt the attempt, they just reacted to it differently. And that Maxima has a default setting thats close to anger/annoyance when it comes to Dabbler is not much of a clue i think. Dabblers profile straight up mention that she likes to mess with people she percive as prudes.
(also the text under that comic mentioned how Zephan might not have any reason to resist the lust aura, he is suposedly straight and not a member of archons direct command structure)


Maybe she just hates Dabbler and resisted it that way? Hard to have a hard on for someone when they disgust you so severely.

That i think is unlikely, i doubt you can hide strong emotions from a psychic succubus.

[Traab]

Faulk I will grant you, but zephan? (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/607) Yeah, thats a pretty darn interested look on his face. And with maxima, there is never, not once, a single moment in the comic series where dabbler is being sexy or seductive towards her where she reacts with anything other than annoyance or indifference at best. Im sticking with my theory that she has superhuman resistance to mental attacks as well as physical. We may not know what sort of level its at, but the inference is pretty clear.

[lord_khaine]

Well yeah, he does look a little intrigued/interested, but not flustered or blushing like those visibly affected.

And you are of course welcome to your theory, im just saying there isnt actually any hard evidence to support that she has any more resistance towards mental attack, than what you might randomly find in a large group of regular humans.

[Forum Explorer]

That i think is unlikely, i doubt you can hide strong emotions from a psychic succubus.

Depends on how psychic Dabbler is. She can't read thoughts or anything like that. And she couldn't tell that Vehemence was amping up the aggression of the superhumans he brought with him.

So I feel safe in guessing that Dabbler can only sense lust, desire, and the like.

[HandofShadows]

Well, everyone survived the blast ok. And I must say Hiro has a higher level of invulnerability than I thought. Unfortunately for both him and Max their invulnerability doesn't extend to their clothes. :smalleek:

[Traab]

So when is the xxxenophiles crossover taking place again? lol.

[lord_khaine]

Depends on how psychic Dabbler is. She can't read thoughts or anything like that. And she couldn't tell that Vehemence was amping up the aggression of the superhumans he brought with him.

So I feel safe in guessing that Dabbler can only sense lust, desire, and the like.

She doesnt really to be psychic. Humans have all sorts of unconcious tells that reveal out emotional stat. And even without enhanched senses then Dabbler could most likely read people on a level to make a professional poker player weep with envy.
But she does also have a cybernetic eye, hearing keen enough to hear a heartbeat in the corner of a room and a nose that can pick up strange pheromones in a crowded nightclub. I suspect that combo is enough to let you read people better than most psychics, but Dabbler is ALSO that, so i honestly dont think you can hide anything of that sort from her if you work with her regularly.

[Forum Explorer]

She doesnt really to be psychic. Humans have all sorts of unconcious tells that reveal out emotional stat. And even without enhanched senses then Dabbler could most likely read people on a level to make a professional poker player weep with envy.
But she does also have a cybernetic eye, hearing keen enough to hear a heartbeat in the corner of a room and a nose that can pick up strange pheromones in a crowded nightclub. I suspect that combo is enough to let you read people better than most psychics, but Dabbler is ALSO that, so i honestly dont think you can hide anything of that sort from her if you work with her regularly.

She's also an alien with very little experience with human social ques, and lacks the social expertise that other succubi have, preferring to tinker and adventure then seduce and socialize.

What's more, Maxima has odd biology in comparison to normal humans. Different pheromones and subtly different cues as a result.

So far, I don't think we've seen anything that suggests Dabbler is good at reading human emotions beyond lust.

[lord_khaine]

She's also an alien with very little experience with human social ques, and lacks the social expertise that other succubi have, preferring to tinker and adventure then seduce and socialize.

What's more, Maxima has odd biology in comparison to normal humans. Different pheromones and subtly different cues as a result.

So far, I don't think we've seen anything that suggests Dabbler is good at reading human emotions beyond lust.

Very little experience? she does hang out with them all day, and are able to observe them in all sorts of situation. She certainly wont have the ability to manipulate people like a socially focused succubi, but being a super genius she should have all she needs to know about how you read humans.

And source on Max having different pheromones and subtly different cues? because so far her emotional have seemed pretty easy to read.

Else, well she seems to have a rather good understanding of people, knowing how and how far she can press Max's buttons, understanding about her Stalker but pretending not to notice to let the people in charge feel safer with her around.
To me it all adds to someone with a keen understanding of humans.

[Leewei]

The war golem had a Nude Bomb (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nude_Bomb). Diabolical!

[lord_khaine]

Closer to a fusion bomb, as the explosion were intense enough to make Max complain about the temperature.

Though one must applaud Hiro for the efford he puts into being a Gentleman despite Max suddenly flashing him.

[HandofShadows]

To me it all adds to someone with a keen understanding of humans.

Since Dabbler had a checklist of funny words she is tricking Max into saying, yeah she has a good understanding of how people think. :smallbiggrin:

[halfeye]

Since Dabbler had a checklist of funny words she is tricking Max into saying, yeah she has a good understanding of how people think. :smallbiggrin:

Buzz-word bingo is old, it's from at least the 1990s and may be earlier than that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzword_bingo

There was at one point a website that would spit out cards with buzzwords in random positions on them.

[HandofShadows]

Considering the "Buzzwords" on this page I would say Dabbler knows exactly how to read people. Or Max at any rate if she is making a game out of it.

http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1358

[halfeye]

Considering the "Buzzwords" on this page I would say Dabbler knows exactly how to read people. Or Max at any rate if she is making a game out of it.

http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1358
The whole team is making a game of it. That Dabbler hasn't already won shows that the game is difficult. Maybe less difficult than for say Sidney, if Sidney is playing at all, but if there was no challenge it wouldn't be an enjoyable game.

[Traab]

The whole team is making a game of it. That Dabbler hasn't already won shows that the game is difficult. Maybe less difficult than for say Sidney, if Sidney is playing at all, but if there was no challenge it wouldn't be an enjoyable game.

Oh she is playing it. She got her first word crossed off by getting max to say cloaca at the general meeting when max gave her a trigger word if she was being held against her will and needed to signal her subtly.

[Dragonus45]

Wow Kenya is so cruel, and Hiro is so screwed.

[lord_khaine]

Thats about as unlogical a statement as it gets. How on earth are Hiro screwed from standing around discretely trying to cover important parts with a block of concrete? :smallconfused:

[Traab]

Yeah max is being a bit unreasonable here. Its understandable, she IS being poked atm, but its not like its something hiro can control and I would bet cash money her nipples could be used to etch diamonds right now. All I know is, im expecting something embarrassing to happen here. Suzie news showing up with camera rolling for example.

[Dragonus45]

Thats about as unlogical a statement as it gets. How on earth are Hiro screwed from standing around discretely trying to cover important parts with a block of concrete? :smallconfused:

The part where his superheroic erection has blasted through that concrete after Kenya called for a group hug. Although I wouldn't say Max is being unreasonable either. Her immediate response would be as much immediate reaction as Hiro's is.

[Leewei]

Unsecured combat areas are pretty far from the best situation for pizza delivery boy roleplaying. Given their personal invulnerability, I'd guess that this is far from the first, or last, time time this sort of thing would happen.

[lord_khaine]

The part where his superheroic erection has blasted through that concrete after Kenya called for a group hug. Although I wouldn't say Max is being unreasonable either. Her immediate response would be as much immediate reaction as Hiro's is.

Yes so thats the argument for why Anvil is in trouble. Im waiting for the on regarding Hiro, who as such are as much of a victim as Max in the sexual harashment lawsuit that wont come.

[Dragonus45]

Yes so thats the argument for why Anvil is in trouble. Im waiting for the on regarding Hiro, who as such are as much of a victim as Max in the sexual harashment lawsuit that wont come.

Have you seen the look Max is giving him, I would likely die of terror from that look before she even had time to take a swing at me.

[Spamotron]

They know there is another dangerous hostile in the area and hostages. Seconds count on the battlefield. It reflects poorly on their discipline as soldiers/supercops when simple nudity is causing them to waste this much time.

[Onyavar]

They know there is another dangerous hostile in the area and hostages. Seconds count on the battlefield. It reflects poorly on their discipline as soldiers/supercops when simple nudity is causing them to waste this much time.
Dito.

Hello? Common sense? Name me a situation where you forcefully couple two superior officers mid-battle and it's remotely okay.

Drama knows three forms of nudity: desperate scenes, funny scenes and porno scenes. They may overlap: desperate+porno = rape scenes, desperate+funny =humiliation scenes, funny+porno= sexy hijinks.
Dave is trying to mix all three, but there is no such thing as 'funny rape scenes'. It just stops being funny. No author commentary can make that up.

Anvil is wrong ethically, legally and tactically. She's doing noone a service here but the adolescent fan reader.

But regarding the overall silliness of the comic, I won't be surprised if in nine months comictime, Maxima gets to enjoy motherhood.

[AvatarVecna]

Dito.

Hello? Common sense? Name me a situation where you forcefully couple two superior officers mid-battle and it's remotely okay.

Drama knows three forms of nudity: desperate scenes, funny scenes and porno scenes. They may overlap: desperate+porno = rape scenes, desperate+funny =humiliation scenes, funny+porno= sexy hijinks.
Dave is trying to mix all three, but there is no such thing as 'funny rape scenes'. It just stops being funny. No author commentary can make that up.

Anvil is wrong ethically, legally and tactically. She's doing noone a service here but the adolescent fan reader.

But regarding the overall silliness of the comic, I won't be surprised if in nine months comictime, Maxima gets to enjoy motherhood.

Fortunately, that's a few centuries in GrrlPower webcomic time, so we'll all probably be dead long before it's devolved that far.

[Traab]

Meh, they destroyed the robot, there is no current threat attacking them, and they are way too naked to continue hopping around looking for clues. Taking a minute out of their busy schedule to process this and maybe get a damn shirt or two, isnt all that horrible. I wouldnt be surprised if the rubble was still settling. Yeah anvil isnt being very appropriate here but as has been dramatically established, this is closer to the avengers than the seals. These guys are friends who screw with each other constantly, and basically only technically military to keep things nice and legal. Yes this is obvious beefcake and cheesecake for the viewers to giggle at, but it doesnt feel forced to me, as I swear I can see anvil pulling this on maxima especially.

[Dragonus45]

Dito.

Hello? Common sense? Name me a situation where you forcefully couple two superior officers mid-battle and it's remotely okay.

Drama knows three forms of nudity: desperate scenes, funny scenes and porno scenes. They may overlap: desperate+porno = rape scenes, desperate+funny =humiliation scenes, funny+porno= sexy hijinks.
Dave is trying to mix all three, but there is no such thing as 'funny rape scenes'. It just stops being funny. No author commentary can make that up.

Anvil is wrong ethically, legally and tactically. She's doing noone a service here but the adolescent fan reader.

But regarding the overall silliness of the comic, I won't be surprised if in nine months comictime, Maxima gets to enjoy motherhood.

First off there is totally such a thing as a funny rape scene, This is the End proves that off the bat. Also I think you are taking it a bit farther than they are, clearly there is no penetration there just an awkward erection. Anyways everyone in the group hug is so many varieties of immortal I doubt they have much to worry about. MY thing is that its kinda stupid that Kenya does the group hug but Hiro gets yelled at, after he went to a great deal of effort not to sneak a peak in the last page.

[Celestia]

First off there is totally such a thing as a funny rape scene, This is the End proves that off the bat. Also I think you are taking it a bit farther than they are, clearly there is no penetration there just an awkward erection. Anyways everyone in the group hug is so many varieties of immortal I doubt they have much to worry about. MY thing is that its kinda stupid that Kenya does the group hug but Hiro gets yelled at, after he went to a great deal of effort not to sneak a peak in the last page.
No there absolutely is not. Period.

And that movie was garbage, anyways. It had maybe three good lines.

[halfeye]

No there absolutely is not. Period.
I quite agree, there is no such thing as a funny sexual assault. It's probably funny to the perpetrator, in all cases, but NO.

[Dragonus45]

Good for you, you're wrong.

[Forum Explorer]

Good for you, you're wrong.

In the interest of curiosity, prove it. What source (you don't need to provide a direct link) did you find a funny rape scene in?

Actually, I suppose a few of the comic strips in Oglaf are pretty rapey.

[Dragonus45]

Its not really something that needs to be proven but I guess with some people it has to be repeated. EVERYTHING IS FUNNY. Rape is funny, genocide is funny, war is funny, cannibalism is funny, assault is funny, cancer is funny, me stubbing my toe on the way to the bathroom in the morning is funny, and the more depressing awful, and unpleasant something is the funnier it is. That it literally how humor works. Oh and for an example I would say the Fruit Boinker in Penny Arcade is pretty funny, as are the infamous Phallus Wolves.

[lord_khaine]

Have you seen the look Max is giving him, I would likely die of terror from that look before she even had time to take a swing at me.

Well i on the other would not feel anything at all besides perhaps a touch of annoyance towards Anvil. Partly because Max would not have a moral leg to stand on, but mainly because an extremely proffesional Colonel is not going to punch one of her people while on a official mission...


me stubbing my toe on the way to the bathroom in the morning is funny

No thats very funny :smalltongue:


Oh and for an example I would say the Fruit Boinker in Penny Arcade is pretty funny

Those meanwhile are bloddy hilarious, i laughted long and hard the first time i saw one of them in On the Rainslick precipy to Darkness.

[Shogo]

I'd have to agree with Dragonus on this one. Rape scenes can be pretty funny.

While rape isn't funny in and of itself, that doesn't mean a scene involving it can't be funny. Comedies can, will, and have used it for comedic effect. Usually by both not taking it seriously and using it as a way to punish some kind of villain.

"Haha! Look at that stupid villain getting violated!"

Or it's done to a man. Because a lot of people who are horrified by a woman being assaulted think a man being assaulted is hilarious. Those crazy kids with their double standards.

Anyways . . . Whether you like it or not, comedy is subjective and black comedy is a thing that exists.

[halfeye]

I'd have to agree with Dragonus on this one. Rape scenes can be pretty funny.

While rape isn't funny in and of itself, that doesn't mean a scene involving it can't be funny. Comedies can, will, and have used it for comedic effect. Usually by both not taking it seriously and using it as a way to punish some kind of villain.

"Haha! Look at that stupid villain getting violated!"

Or it's done to a man. Because a lot of people who are horrified by a woman being assaulted think a man being assaulted is hilarious. Those crazy kids with their double standards.

Anyways . . . Whether you like it or not, comedy is subjective and black comedy is a thing that exists.
Let's put it this way, in every rape scene, there is someone for whom it is not funny.

[AvatarVecna]

Let's put it this way, in every rape scene, there is someone for whom it is not funny.

I have to disagree with this, but only because of the existence of Crack!fics. Found a fic awhile back that I'm almost positive started as a bet to see if the author could write a hilarious crack fic that was basically nothing but the most absurd rape scenes, and while the characters certainly weren't into it, they at least seemed about as confused as put out, and after awhile just kinda ambivalent.

Rape jokes can work, I think, so long as the rape itself isn't what's considered funny. But that's not really relevant to this comic, since there is no rape here except perhaps visually.

[Dragonus45]

Let's put it this way, in every rape scene, there is someone for whom it is not funny.

For every joke ever told there is someone who does not like the joke. Doesn't stop the joke from being funny.

[Shogo]

That's true of a lot of humor, Halfeye.

You might laugh your butt off when someone slips and falls. Or when someone does something that makes them look stupid. Or most any joke at someone else's expense. It's not funny for the person who is the butt of those jokes. Doesn't stop most people from laughing.

You can find a joke about a taboo subject to be funny without thinking the taboo subject is itself funny.

[Traab]

Or its just schadenfreude. Which, if I remember my german, is enjoying it when bad things happen to guys named freud.

[Onyavar]

Okay, I admit that there seems to be a few people who seem to think that rape can be a funny subject. I guess that's taste in humour and how much thought you put into it before laughing/being outraged.


Also I think you are taking it a bit farther than they are, clearly there is no penetration there just an awkward erection. Anyways everyone in the group hug is so many varieties of immortal I doubt they have

My 'ahem' joke about Maximas pregnancy doesn't mean that I thought she was penetrated. (though Hiros comment about her warmness may be a hint).
Well, ANY sexual harassment that involves unwanted body contact, constitutes rape in many jurisdictions. No need for it being male-female penetration.

Imagine a theater where your two follow actors are just undressed in the common changing room, nude expect for underwear. You, on a whim, press them together skin on skin, just as demonstrated in the recent update. Regardless whether your colleagues are attracted to each other or not, they COULD sue your behind off. Sexual harassment is a great way to ruin or strain a friendship. It's not a prank you should try on April 1st.

[Onyavar]

Or its just schadenfreude. Which, if I remember my german, is enjoying it when bad things happen to guys named freud.
Heh, close. It's when you enjoy observing others' bad luck. Literally translated, it's 'joy of damage'. Yes, Sigmund's family name is 'Joy'.

Note that Schadenfreude is not about inflicting damage on others yourself - you're just the observer who breaks out into laughter when Jerry blows up Tom with a bar of dynamite. It shows that you're empathic enough to know that it hurts, but on the same time emotionally distant enough to see the humorous aspect of it.
If you ever watched the full youtube video of that guy who really blew up his real cat with real dynamite, you already learned that some bad things are less funny than others.

[Traab]

Yeah I know what the word means, I just recently read that joke and couldnt pass it up in a scenario where it could actually be used without being random. As for humor, its very subjective, but I just feel like I should mention I used to have a collection of joke books titled something along the lines of, "Sick disgusting horrible joke book" that had such gems as, "How many babies can fit in a phone booth? Depends on how powerful the hydraulic press is." Or, if disabled humor is your thing, "What did helen keller say when someone pinched her butt? Nothing, she was wearing mittens." Those arent precise quotes as its been a very long time since I read any of those, but as I recall they were up to book number 14 of the series when I stopped reading them, so clearly there is a market of people who love awful jokes.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Please take this discussion back in a forum-appropriate direction.

[Forum Explorer]

Yeah I know what the word means, I just recently read that joke and couldnt pass it up in a scenario where it could actually be used without being random. As for humor, its very subjective, but I just feel like I should mention I used to have a collection of joke books titled something along the lines of, "Sick disgusting horrible joke book" that had such gems as, "How many babies can fit in a phone booth? Depends on how powerful the hydraulic press is." Or, if disabled humor is your thing, "What did helen keller say when someone pinched her butt? Nothing, she was wearing mittens." Those arent precise quotes as its been a very long time since I read any of those, but as I recall they were up to book number 14 of the series when I stopped reading them, so clearly there is a market of people who love awful jokes.

Knowing who loves black humor is the key to winning Card Games Against Humanity.

Anyways, back on topic, I think this whole scene is just wasted time. Unless they are planning to have Hiro be Maxima's romantic interest.

[-D-]

Let's put it this way, for every scene, there is someone for whom it is not fun.
Improved!!!

[Traab]

Ok, now things have gravitated past the reasonable stage. Unless we find out they did a search off panel. Which is possible as now max is wearing a shirt and we never saw harem hand one to her. Though still no pants for hiro. Seriously, doesnt ANYONE have a pair of emergency sweats on hand? He is still using debris to shield himself. Anyways, this comic feels a lot like the post vehemence updates where the action is over and sydney was basically sitting there processing things. Also, im liking this whole indication of interest they have for each other. Max is prickly but she knows hiro is a good guy. Handsome, sexy, smart, well mannered, about the only thing keeping either of them from making a move seems to be the rank issue. They really would make a pretty good pairing from what we have seen of them. It helps he is also a flying brick type, even if well under her level. So they have similar powers, they are both military so they have that in common, hiro isnt a drooling idiot or a sexist pig, or even the microaggression type of sexism that strikes me as the type of thing to annoy maxima. All we need now is more info on their personal lives, what their hobbies are, that sort of thing, but on the surface they are pretty compatible.

[halfeye]

Ok, now things have gravitated past the reasonable stage. Unless we find out they did a search off panel. Which is possible as now max is wearing a shirt and we never saw harem hand one to her. Though still no pants for hiro. Seriously, doesnt ANYONE have a pair of emergency sweats on hand? He is still using debris to shield himself. Anyways, this comic feels a lot like the post vehemence updates where the action is over and sydney was basically sitting there processing things. Also, im liking this whole indication of interest they have for each other. Max is prickly but she knows hiro is a good guy. Handsome, sexy, smart, well mannered, about the only thing keeping either of them from making a move seems to be the rank issue. They really would make a pretty good pairing from what we have seen of them. It helps he is also a flying brick type, even if well under her level. So they have similar powers, they are both military so they have that in common, hiro isnt a drooling idiot or a sexist pig, or even the microaggression type of sexism that strikes me as the type of thing to annoy maxima. All we need now is more info on their personal lives, what their hobbies are, that sort of thing, but on the surface they are pretty compatible.
There was a BBC report on one British army base commander being replaced by her husband, but I can't find it now, it was about a couple of months ago.

<edit>

This one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293869

I don't know whether it's technically relevant.

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't think Hiro was actually in the military before Arc-SWAT - wasn't he a vigilante?

Or am I thinking of someone else on the team?

[HandofShadows]

There was a BBC report on one British army base commander being replaced by her husband, but I can't find it now, it was about a couple of months ago.

There is no problem (in the US military) at any rate of married couples being in the same command. At one point both my brothers and sister in law were posted at the same place and someone got the bright idea of putting them all in the same office. To make matters worse they all had the same rank.

[Traab]

I don't think Hiro was actually in the military before Arc-SWAT - wasn't he a vigilante?

Or am I thinking of someone else on the team?

If so, he moved up in ranks fast as I think he is technically second in command below maxima. Or at least back at the super brawl pre fight dinner anvil asked if max was afraid they would bump her down a grade and give command to hiro. Here it is (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1178). *EDIT* Also his cast page entry makes it pretty clear he has been military for awhile. He joined as a regular in the army, was really good at his job and eventually agreed to become an officer and is now a major.

[Yuki Akuma]

If so, he moved up in ranks fast as I think he is technically second in command below maxima. Or at least back at the super brawl pre fight dinner anvil asked if max was afraid they would bump her down a grade and give command to hiro. Here it is (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1178). *EDIT* Also his cast page entry makes it pretty clear he has been military for awhile. He joined as a regular in the army, was really good at his job and eventually agreed to become an officer and is now a major.

Huh. Must have been thinking about someone else then.

[Dragonus45]

I can't help but feel the writer is being a little hard on dudes, both from the perspective of somehow assuming women don't do the exact same thing when given the chance and from acting like someone checking someone out is somehow one of those bogus microagression things. Also during the exact same page Max points out she was glad to give Hiro the "Oh My God" as he put it down in the comment section. As long as your not going for "The Leer" or “I am a lion and your breasts are gazelles” with the "Oh My God" also being fairly inappropriate depending on circumstance people should be free to check out other attractive people.

[Kantaki]

I don't think Hiro was actually in the military before Arc-SWAT - wasn't he a vigilante?

Or am I thinking of someone else on the team?

I think the vigilantes were Achilles, Mr. Amorphous and Heatwave.

[Dragonus45]

Yea I think it was mentioned somewhere ant Achilles has been running around for decades.

[HandofShadows]

Yea I think it was mentioned somewhere ant Achilles has been running around for decades.

I recall that was well. His bio says that he seems stuck in the 80's. Heatwave's bio says she, Mr. Amorphous and Achilles had been vigilantes at some point.

[Forum Explorer]

Ok, now things have gravitated past the reasonable stage. Unless we find out they did a search off panel. Which is possible as now max is wearing a shirt and we never saw harem hand one to her. Though still no pants for hiro. Seriously, doesnt ANYONE have a pair of emergency sweats on hand? He is still using debris to shield himself. Anyways, this comic feels a lot like the post vehemence updates where the action is over and sydney was basically sitting there processing things. Also, im liking this whole indication of interest they have for each other. Max is prickly but she knows hiro is a good guy. Handsome, sexy, smart, well mannered, about the only thing keeping either of them from making a move seems to be the rank issue. They really would make a pretty good pairing from what we have seen of them. It helps he is also a flying brick type, even if well under her level. So they have similar powers, they are both military so they have that in common, hiro isnt a drooling idiot or a sexist pig, or even the microaggression type of sexism that strikes me as the type of thing to annoy maxima. All we need now is more info on their personal lives, what their hobbies are, that sort of thing, but on the surface they are pretty compatible.

So they did a search off screen. Harem and Pixel were working while everyone else was standing guard/ogling each other.

[Traab]

Yep, seems so. And honestly, im not surprised, neither of them were really dressed for continuing work. Also, being the commanding officers, they generally dont do the grunt work anyways. :p

[HandofShadows]

Max you just HAD to say Dabblers name, didn't you. :smalleek::smallamused:

[lord_khaine]

I really like Max's grin in the last panel, though she should be a little more careful, revealing she is a bit more less inexperienced than the ice queen act might give the impression of. :smalltongue:

[Rogar Demonblud]

So I started my fourth or fifth archive binge, and thought posting some thoughts for discussion about the older material might help us fill in the time between updates.

To start:

The art right at the beginning really sucks. I mean rip the pages out of the book suck.

The comic shop hours are 11-7 TWHF and 10-6 on Saturday. Which explains why Sydney was taking the deposit to the bank on Tuesday--they were closed Monday. Really, they should've used the night deposit drop on Saturday or taken it in on Monday--you want your money working for you, not sitting around.

Zephan Zeong (ZZ Doc?) is probably right about Sydney needing her Adderall prescription checked. I'd lay money she's undermedicated in both senses (wrong dosage and not following the schedule).

I have a couple friends who functioned a bit like Brook. Both were born with the cord around their necks, and presumably had some oxygenation issues.

More later.

Edit: also, for something that shows just how fast the comic gets dated, that scenario Sydney and Joel were talking about. A reality show for a search and rescue hero? Helicopters wouldn't be considered these days, because you'd use a camera-equipped drone.

[lord_khaine]

So.. kinda dull comic today.. really did not need a reference to that unusually stupid joke Sydney made in the Vehemence fight :smallsigh:

[HandofShadows]

That wasn't a joke, but some mockery on Sydney's part. There is actually a little more on this page than one might think. It shows that Harem isn't as smart/quick on the uptake as she thinks she is. May have future implications.

[Traab]

Bah, so she missed a joke and finally got it later. Her only clues were meep meep and sydney blowing a raspberry. For me the confusing part was the sudden switch to heatwave and the latest science corner from dabbler. It took reading the comments section to realize she was putting out the fires sydney caused during the battle and we needed it explained that yeah she can do that, but doesnt much like it.

Also, tomorrow max really needs to concentrate on working with sydneys new abilities. A freaking teleporter?! And more than that, one who can scout an area BEFORE teleporting in there? Thats going to be useful as heck. I dunno if she can take stuff with her. If she cant, geez that will be handy. They also need to work on quantifying her destructo beams and scatter shot settings on the ppo. Right now we are running on bad guessing about how strong they are. Sydney needs to know when she can use the beam without killing people. Also how to aim it better.

[halfeye]

Bah, so she missed a joke and finally got it later. Her only clues were meep meep and sydney blowing a raspberry. For me the confusing part was the sudden switch to heatwave and the latest science corner from dabbler. It took reading the comments section to realize she was putting out the fires sydney caused during the battle and we needed it explained that yeah she can do that, but doesnt much like it.

Also, tomorrow max really needs to concentrate on working with sydneys new abilities. A freaking teleporter?! And more than that, one who can scout an area BEFORE teleporting in there? Thats going to be useful as heck. I dunno if she can take stuff with her. If she cant, geez that will be handy. They also need to work on quantifying her destructo beams and scatter shot settings on the ppo. Right now we are running on bad guessing about how strong they are. Sydney needs to know when she can use the beam without killing people. Also how to aim it better.

Does Sydney have that power in this timeline? I thought that was aborted in the reboot? It's a power she can get, and probably should, but AIUI, she doesn't currently have it.

[-D-]

That wasn't a joke, but some mockery on Sydney's part. There is actually a little more on this page than one might think. It shows that Harem isn't as smart/quick on the uptake as she thinks she is. May have future implications.

Thread name is as relevant as ever.

[Traab]

Does Sydney have that power in this timeline? I thought that was aborted in the reboot? It's a power she can get, and probably should, but AIUI, she doesn't currently have it.

She didnt pick an upgrade until after the evil robot attacked. And that was for the scatter shot ability. The teleporting ability is, I think, the first upgrade she picked after the press demonstration 70 years ago. The aura viewing is one she didnt realize she had. Sort of like her shield embiggener.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It shows that Harem isn't as smart/quick on the uptake as she thinks she is.

We already knew that. She's the one stupid enough to think committing espionage and treason while under the command of Lt Col Maximilia "Create Horrific Destruction as a Teaching Moment" Leander is a good idea.

[lord_khaine]

We already knew that. She's the one stupid enough to think committing espionage and treason while under the command of Lt Col Maximilia "Create Horrific Destruction as a Teaching Moment" Leander is a good idea.

No, its completely and utterly irellevant who she commits it under. Because Max can create as much destruction as she wants to, but as soon as part of it includes Harem then she would be commiting a crime. And doing so is completely against everything Max stands for.

Also i dont think its technically treason unless another country is included, and Harem is almost impossible to catch as a teleporter with multible bodies. She is worse than Ambush bug in that regard, and he is troublesome enough to annoy Superman himself, who are a couple tiers above Max in power level.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Actually, the issue here is we have no idea how the ARCHON Act defines these things, or what punishments are specified. For all we know, Deus counts a foreign power because he (in effect) owns his own country.

Daphne has really not thought this through. To be a spy is to leave yourself alone, with an opposition of uncounted myriads, and with a support network that will likely disavow you when things go sideways. And you actually have to worry about cleaners from both sides, because either side (or a third party) can decide things would be easier for them if you are not around anymore (and we know Deus can afford his own meta human security teams).

Plus, I doubt anyone has an idea about what'd happen to Daphne if a Harem got killed by, oh, say a cloaked sniper. Or someone who can project a forcefield around her.

Long story short, she'd probably be very lucky to only undergo another Atomic Wedgie.

[Traab]

Yeah im not surprised at all by this. Its obvious that her powers are not only absurdly dangerous, but that she doesnt have as firm a grip on them as she needs beyond the basic levels of use. Think of it less of an arrest, and more, "We are going to train every aspect of that power you have until we dont have to worry about you ending reality by accident."

[lord_khaine]

Actually, the issue here is we have no idea how the ARCHON Act defines these things, or what punishments are specified. For all we know, Deus counts a foreign power because he (in effect) owns his own country.

I really doubt the Arcon act has redefined definitions. For the law in particular im pretty certain in effect does not count. Especially not with someone that has as many lawyers as Deus does.

And Harem has an advantage most other spies really dont have. In that she is a irreplaceable asset. If you lose a skilled spy its annoying, but you most likely got a school somewhere that crank them out by the dozen.

Harem on the other hand is unique. You cant find another cloner/teleporter to replace her. That makes her extremely valuable, far to valuable to casually get cleaned up.
And also valuable enough that she can most likely get sanctuary in country she cares to go to. Just the chance that she might settle down and have kids who are supers themselves would be worth the investment for a nation.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Ooo-kay, that was not expected. So is the super-husk's operating core going back to Sciona, or is it an independent now?

[lord_khaine]

Im kinda surprised to read that the last comic had mixed reactions. Personally i think it was more or less Max's duty to bring Krona in after discovering she were both a) Messing around with time and b)Were not completely certain about what she were doing herself.

[tomandtish]

Im kinda surprised to read that the last comic had mixed reactions. Personally i think it was more or less Max's duty to bring Krona in after discovering she were both a) Messing around with time and b)Were not completely certain about what she were doing herself.

Assuming you are talking about the debate in the comic comments, the main issue seems to be whether or not Max actually has the authority to bring Krona in IF Krona decides she doesn't want to come.

Remember, the only part of the law that specifically applies to Supers and powers is the part about vigilantism. Without telling us more of the law, we'd have to use existing law, and unless she's being arrested Krona can generally tell Max to take a hike.

Many were saying her powers are inherently dangerous, but there's no mention that the law allows arrest for that (and so are Max's, Dabbler's, and quite a few others). So you'd have to look at a specific act that broke the law in order to arrest her.

[Traab]

Assuming you are talking about the debate in the comic comments, the main issue seems to be whether or not Max actually has the authority to bring Krona in IF Krona decides she doesn't want to come.

Remember, the only part of the law that specifically applies to Supers and powers is the part about vigilantism. Without telling us more of the law, we'd have to use existing law, and unless she's being arrested Krona can generally tell Max to take a hike.

Many were saying her powers are inherently dangerous, but there's no mention that the law allows arrest for that (and so are Max's, Dabbler's, and quite a few others). So you'd have to look at a specific act that broke the law in order to arrest her.

Im sure there are all sorts of ways to make the law dance and twist. She wouldnt be "under arrest" she would be "detained" or something like that. Or it could work like a version of probable cause. "Can I search your car?" "No" "Oh you must be hiding something or else you wouldnt care, probable cause." (Lets not get into legal arguments over whether that is allowed) Of course, there is also the fact that she is a part of a super group of the supernatural who dont officially exist, which means short of revealing the twilight council to the world, she technically counts as a vigilante. Which is probably why max seems so confident she can arrange things. Its kinda shaky as far as authority goes, but thats why you have to run over it so fast.

Bottom line, its either a catch 22 setup of, "You arent under arrest but you need to come with us." "No thanks" "Then you are now a danger to the world around us due to your lack of control over your highly dangerous abilities, you are under arrest." or its something to do with the vigilante excuse. "Due to the secrecy of the twilight council, you are not officially recognized as a superhero, therefore you count as a vigilante for the purpose of detaining you."

[Rogar Demonblud]

Can we not do this here? It's still going on in the comic's comments, and is as annoying as the bickering about paladins and ettins in the Kickstarter thread the next forum up.

Want something to talk about? I saw this linked at Grrl Power, and am now terrified. Halo's probably enchanted.

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/welsh-farmer-accidentally-creates-worlds-hottest-chili/

[Leewei]

Malign intentions probably aren't required for Archon's enforcement powers to function. This isn't a mere firearm. The risk from a high-end super is far greater. If someone has the capability to end the world, Archon needs to intervene. The intervention isn't an arrest, nor punitive; it is analytical.

Could this go in a direction that breaks the concept of just law altogether? Well, yes, technically, it could. A reality where a single being could wipe everything out is, by its nature, anti-democratic. The compromise in this world is the presence of supers such as Max who choose to enforce a democratic order where possible.

[lord_khaine]

It should of course also be pointed out that to start with gouverments break their own rules all the time. Whenever they think there is the least chance of getting away with it.

And this is a rather extreme case, where Archon is not certain if someone is a walking nuklear bomb or not.
That really is enough to override any other civil right, just like people with infectious diseases can be quarantined against their will if they pose a danger of others. And this situation is extremely simular.

[AvatarVecna]

So, a comparison between the last line of today's comic (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2519) and the supervillains page (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/1189) from way back when shows that there is in fact a villain who speaks in bold all-caps - Dabbler's old enemy "Generic Archdemon Guy". I'm really hoping this is the case, because it means that the supervillains page isn't just gonna run through them in order.

[Celestia]

I would assume that Generic Archdemon Guy would be immortal, though.

[AvatarVecna]

I would assume that Generic Archdemon Guy would be immortal, though.

I would too, part of why it's only a theory.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I would too, part of why it's only a theory.

It could still work if the speaker is immortal, assuming the line is read as one immortal reminding another that non-immortals are a thing. However reading it like that brings to mind an image of someone far more concerned for the well-being of lesser people than a giant elder demon lord guy. So I still doubt it's him.

[Kantaki]

It could still work if the speaker is immortal, assuming the line is read as one immortal reminding another that non-immortals are a thing. However reading it like that brings to mind an image of someone far more concerned for the well-being of lesser people than a giant elder demon lord guy. So I still doubt it's him.

I dunno, if Mr. „Needs to see a doctor” still needs those mortals for his plan he might show some concern that they bite the dust while Lady Halfhead procrastinates.
Even if he doesn't care about them at all it still can't hurt to make them think so while telling Sciona to hurry up already.
Good minions are hard to get after all and caring about them- or making them think you do -helps keeping them.

[Kantaki]

New comic

Well, it's not demon-guy.
I really didn't expect one of Deus' mercenaries.
And it seems she isn't human.
According to Sciona she might even be something unique... Interesting.

Brunhildr's presence proves one thing:
Leave no vampire unstaked or it will come back to bite you.

[AvatarVecna]

"How do you know you're not immortal? Aren't you the only thing like you?"
"If things like me were immortal, wouldn't some others like me still be around?"

[Kantaki]

"How do you know you're not immortal? Aren't you the only thing like you?"
"If things like me were immortal, wouldn't some others like me still be around?"

True enough.
Although being immortal doesn't mean you can't be killed. Or worse.
Just makes it a bit tricky in some cases.

[HandofShadows]

True enough.
Although being immortal doesn't mean you can't be killed. Or worse.
Just makes it a bit tricky in some cases.

He. Sometimes not being able to be killed can be a lot worse than being able to die.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Okay, I went back to the supervillains page and then bounced between that and the last few pages. The two people in the shadows would be Gunnhildr and Zvonamir, so at least we're skipping about instead of going down the line.

[Celestia]

Cooter Jones. Wat.

[Traab]

Its a setup, its gotta be. Either he is an unwitting sacrifice for some reason, or he is trolling the heck out of everyone in order to be underestimated. The odds that there would be an actual bad guy this absurd normally while being powerful enough to include in this little cabal are pretty low.

[lord_khaine]

Hmm.. interesting point. Though the blog text does say that Cooter is suposed to be fundamentally dislikeable.

But yeah, he does seem a little out of place in that gathering of monsters. A little clueless with his talk of guns. And a little powerless since he is carrying one around himself.
Of course unless his power/skill lies in crafting magical bullets. That could be the reason for inviting complete nut like that.

[The Glyphstone]

This guy is hilarious, I love (to hate) him already.

[Traab]

Hmm.. interesting point. Though the blog text does say that Cooter is suposed to be fundamentally dislikeable.

But yeah, he does seem a little out of place in that gathering of monsters. A little clueless with his talk of guns. And a little powerless since he is carrying one around himself.
Of course unless his power/skill lies in crafting magical bullets. That could be the reason for inviting complete nut like that.

Maybe he is like johnny blaze from ghost rider and his shotgun fires off rounds of hellfire. But yeah, he is about as utterly stereotypical southern hick as its possible to be. His real name might be http://jokes.mtvnimages.com/images/jokes_vertical/video/specials/jeff_dunham/roadkill_xmas/dunham_xmasspecial_bubbaj_v6.jpg

[Kantaki]

Its a setup, its gotta be. Either he is an unwitting sacrifice for some reason, or he is trolling the heck out of everyone in order to be underestimated. The odds that there would be an actual bad guy this absurd normally while being powerful enough to include in this little cabal are pretty low.

I think I will go with Option C).
All of the above.:smallbiggrin:

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm wondering if he's supposed to be a host for whatever is being summoned.

[lord_khaine]

Thats not unlikely. His comment about a pretty setup and not enough guns make him sound quite clueless.

And Wyrmils comment to Doc about this guy being awesome make it sound like someone brough in for a purpose.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Okay, this guy is just cruising for a karma-riffic death scene. Good to see the Veil is still working, though.

[Kantaki]

Okay, seems like they brought that guy in for some kind of expendable pawn/sacrifice deal.

As far as I can tell he has it coming.

And is it just me or do some of his new „friends” look as if they can't wait to be done with his part of the plan?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Probably, like me, they anticipate finding it amusing.:smallcool:

[Kantaki]

Probably, like me, they anticipate finding it amusing.:smallcool:

What is the appropriate phrasing again?
"Bloody hilarious"?
Literally so I would expect.:smallamused:

[Leewei]

If he sees his horrible demise and avoids it at the last possible moment, he'd duck die-nasty.

[Traab]

Aww dangit. Why cant we be near page 50? Grrl Power IV: Go Jesus just sounds so right to me as a thread title. :smallbiggrin: Im guessing they need him to do things like make it past barriers that would block the supernatural or something along those lines.

[Shogo]

I don't get why people keep saying he has it coming or something bad happening to him would be karma.

So far, I think he's pretty funny. The author's attempt to make him inherently dislikable is failing.

Oh, hey. Interesting. There was another update. Let me read that real quick.

Okay. He's a little bit of a prick. He can't even blame all of it on a quest to avenge his family.

I'll also say that it had to be pointed out to me that Cthillia was making a Star Wars reference. My first guess was that Cthillia was making the kind of reference that would trigger the homophobia in a stereotype like Cooter.

[Traab]

I don't get why people keep saying he has it coming or something bad happening to him would be karma.

So far, I think he's pretty funny. The author's attempt to make him inherently dislikable is failing.

Oh, hey. Interesting. There was another update. Let me read that real quick.

Okay. He's a little bit of a prick. He can't even blame all of it on a quest to avenge his family.

I'll also say that it had to be pointed out to me that Cthillia was making a Star Wars reference. My first guess was that Cthillia was making the kind of reference that would trigger the homophobia in a stereotype like Cooter.

The best part is it works both ways. Go Jesus!

[lord_khaine]

I don't get why people keep saying he has it coming or something bad happening to him would be karma.

So far, I think he's pretty funny. The author's attempt to make him inherently dislikable is failing.

Oh, hey. Interesting. There was another update. Let me read that real quick.

Okay. He's a little bit of a prick. He can't even blame all of it on a quest to avenge his family.

I'll also say that it had to be pointed out to me that Cthillia was making a Star Wars reference. My first guess was that Cthillia was making the kind of reference that would trigger the homophobia in a stereotype like Cooter.

Im actually in on this, i really cant see the idea that he got anything comming for him. He is a guy on a heroic quest to avenge the murder of his family. Thats more or less the default heroic origin for most heroic monster hunters.

So yeah alright, at the same he is rude and vulgar. But that is a seperate issue, and the only thing he got comming from that is people not wanting to talk with him.

[Forum Explorer]

Im actually in on this, i really cant see the idea that he got anything comming for him. He is a guy on a heroic quest to avenge the murder of his family. Thats more or less the default heroic origin for most heroic monster hunters.

So yeah alright, at the same he is rude and vulgar. But that is a seperate issue, and the only thing he got comming from that is people not wanting to talk with him.

Vengeful monster hunters are only heroic when they are after a specific, evil monster, or unintelligent ravenous monsters. Wanting to kill all vampires (in the Giirl Power Universe) because one vampire killed your family is still bad.

[Kantaki]

Vengeful monster hunters are only heroic when they are after a specific, evil monster, or unintelligent ravenous monsters. Wanting to kill all vampires (in the Giirl Power Universe) because one vampire killed your family is still bad.

Nevermind going after all vampires*, „Coot” seems to be the kind of guy who would go after completely different- and (relative) harmless -„monsters” to get his vengeance.

*Who needs a reason to dust fancy zombies with a ego-problem?:smallamused::smalltongue:

[Traab]

Yeah he isnt after "a" monster, he is after all of them. He only tolerates self loathing monsters because they want to kill themselves.

[JeenLeen]

Of the supers and 'monsters' working with Sciona, how many were seen at the Council meeting? Were any besides Cthillia part of Deus' group we saw in the flashback?

The first question is my main one, as I'm having trouble telling the different vamps apart and I find it really interesting that some members of the Council are sorta playing both sides.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Both of the vampires were in the peanut gallery. I don't remember seeing any of the others, although Wyrmil might have been one of the background characters.

Only Chthillia was in Deus' group in Galytn. Incidentally, this means our supervillain gangs are 2 for 2 for ties to Deus.

[HandofShadows]

Unless of course Deus has his own plans and his guy is there working for him. He is sneeky that way. :smallamused:

[lord_khaine]

I am at this point pretty certain we will see on of Deus's henchmen in every following story arc, just to leave it hard to judge what he is actually up to.

[Dragonus45]

*sight* I really am getting tired of crappy southern stereotypes.

[AvatarVecna]

*sight* I really am getting tired of crappy southern stereotypes.

I've got bad news for you: I predict they're gonna be a lot more common in media over the next 3.5 or 7.5 years. :smalltongue:

[Dragonus45]

I've got bad news for you: I predict they're gonna be a lot more common in media over the next 3.5 or 7.5 years. :smalltongue:

Don't remind me.

[Celestia]

*sight* I really am getting tired of crappy southern stereotypes.
"Redneck" is not exclusively Southern. It is also a Midwestern stereotype.

[AvatarVecna]

"Redneck" is not exclusively Southern. It is also a Midwestern stereotype.

The stars and bars shirt is part of what's making him seem more "Southern Redneck" than "Generic Redneck", at least to me.

[Celestia]

The stars and bars shirt is part of what's making him seem more "Southern Redneck" than "Generic Redneck", at least to me.
You do have a point.

[Onyavar]

In-comic time has doubled now. Day 6 already.

[Kantaki]

Only 84 days to go till the present then?:smallbiggrin:

[Celestia]

Wow. This feels weird. The comic used to crawl along at a snail's pace, but now it's been upgraded to tortoise speed. I'm not sure how we'll possibly cope without seeing every last detail of Sydney's life.

[Traab]

Im still hoping for a bit of a training montage to show the majority of this flashback being skipped over. Maybe have another arc that covers her graduation and some hijinks that take place then, preferably with her and the other newbies for a change. I still like the idea of her being a team leader for the rookies. Basically, they get the low priority/danger missions, sydney is both in charge and backup for the group like maxima on overwatch because she should, in theory, be able to handle anything they stumble over. This gets them all some rl experience, gets her some command experience in low threat scenarios, and in general is just a good thing in between vehemence level fights which cant happen too often or else it kinda counters the background details of the setting where there just arent that many threats of that magnitude out there. (We see like, 6) Unless this goes primarily fantasy dealing with the supernatural of course.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Frankly, I wish Dave would go back and delete those first couple comics. Not only does the art style suck, it doesn't mesh with the rest of the strip in tone. Plus, it would remove the 'long flashbacks suck, when are we getting back to the present' thing.

[Traab]

Frankly, I wish Dave would go back and delete those first couple comics. Not only does the art style suck, it doesn't mesh with the rest of the strip in tone. Plus, it would remove the 'long flashbacks suck, when are we getting back to the present' thing.

To me its more that there is little left to really explain. As an example, if we saw anvil with a prosthetic arm, we would want to see how that happened in the flashback. But there really isnt anything left to explain from a flashback point of view. There isnt even a sense of urgency that needs to be explained because she is casually playing d&d then showing up for her shift at work basically. We already got how she ended up joining, who these people are, etc etc etc. The closest thing to needing an explanation is her rank of corporal but im fairly sure thats a pretty basic thing in the military, specialists often get an automatic bump of a couple paygrades upon graduating from basic. I could see concentrating a bit on her orbs and training in how to use them just so we dont get comics like, "Dont forget I can fly too max!" in order to ham fistedly tell us what her orbs do while the storyline progresses.

[tomandtish]

In-comic time has doubled now. Day 6 already.

At this rate we should be there by 2025....


Vengeful monster hunters are only heroic when they are after a specific, evil monster, or unintelligent ravenous monsters. Wanting to kill all vampires (in the Giirl Power Universe) because one vampire killed your family is still bad.

True. OTOH, because the "good" vampires seem to be maintaining the illusion of non-existence, the only evidence there is of vampires tends to be bad (looking at what has leaked historically).

Which actually leads to an interesting thought. Maybe the (relatively recent) trend of vampires being "good" and "sexy" was actually started by the council to try and undo some of the previous damage. Too bad someone screwed up with Twilight.

[Rogar Demonblud]

New page! (http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/2536)

Okay, so Krona probably can't break the universe. And found time to do laundry.

[HandofShadows]

Maybe they will get into Sydney's and Krona's powers possibly being related now. :smallcool: I hope.

[Ibrinar]

I find it weird how exponentially has come to be used as much higher.

[AvatarVecna]

I find it weird how exponentially has come to be used as much higher.

Yeah, much the same way that "absolutely" is no longer used to indicate absolute value/absolute certainty as much as fairly accurate value/fairly likely certainty. That's just the way it goes.

EDIT: For an additional comparison, "very" once was mostly used the way we think of "verily" being used (namely, indicated exactness/preciseness, ala "of my very own" or "very much so", or indicated truthfulness, ala "the very same"), but has largely become a word used to add emphasis to other words/phrases, even in a metaphorical context where the words' original definitions of truth and exactness aren't really applicable.

[lord_khaine]

Maybe they will get into Sydney's and Krona's powers possibly being related now. I hope.

Oh gods no please! Sydny really dont need anything else to make her super special :smallsigh:

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, the Spectrum Spheres are ludicrously OP for a beginner, and we've been repeatedly told she's going to get more powerful.

[Celestia]

Controversial opinion: I don't really care how strong Sydney gets. This is a comic, not a game. Power is not inherently bad. It doesn't automatically make her a Mary Sue, and it's not necessarily a problem. What matters is the story. Yes, story is conflict, but that doesn't have to be physical altercations, not even in a superhero comic. You just have to know how to write it. All the best Superman stories are the ones that focus on his human side, his emotional vulnerability.

[HandofShadows]

I got a clue for some of you people. Finding out where the orbs came from in no ways means more power for Sydney.

[AvatarVecna]

I got a clue for some of you people. Finding out where the orbs came from in no ways means more power for Sydney.

Agreed. Potentially getting your hands on a users manual never results in getting better at using the technology that manual is for. Trial and error is the only real way to learn how your technology works.

[HandofShadows]

Agreed. Potentially getting your hands on a users manual never results in getting better at using the technology that manual is for. Trial and error is the only real way to learn how your technology works.

And where did I say or even infer that there might be a "manual" for the orbs? Let me make it easy, I never did. You people are taking about stuff I never said or ever even hinted at in any way and blaming me for it. So kindly stop trying to fool people with this garbage because I have never like people deliberately misrepresenting what I say.

[Kantaki]

Oh gods no please! Sydny really dont need anything else to make her super special :smallsigh:

Wouldn't it make Syney less special if Crona's powers come from the same source?:smallconfused:


Agreed. Potentially getting your hands on a users manual never results in getting better at using the technology that manual is for. Trial and error is the only real way to learn how your technology works.

Well, to be fair, Manual or not- she would get more Upgrades either way. And in Sydney's case it would be better she knows what she is doing.
Actually, scratch that. No matter who uses the orbs, they should read the Manual before doing so- especially once they start to level them up.

[lord_khaine]

I got a clue for some of you people. Finding out where the orbs came from in no ways means more power for Sydney.


nd where did I say or even infer that there might be a "manual" for the orbs? Let me make it easy, I never did. You people are taking about stuff I never said or ever even hinted at in any way and blaming me for it. So kindly stop trying to fool people with this garbage because I have never like people deliberately misrepresenting what I say.

You.. should perhaps sweep before your own door first then. Since it was not power that were complained about, but her getting more special.


Wouldn't it make Syney less special if Crona's powers come from the same source?

Well no.. because right now its Crona who has the straight up unique power source. So it would instead be Crona that became less special.

[John Campbell]

Well no.. because right now its Crona who has the straight up unique power source. So it would instead be Crona that became less special.

Sydney also does. Sydney and her unique power source have just been hired as a superhero, while Krona's been cast as "some weird kind of magic we guess?" Putting the two of them into a category together makes both of them less special snowflakes.

(Max is also unique, as apparently a natural super who's had her powers enhanced or amplified somehow by geode juice.)

[Leewei]

We interrupt this plot digression for a day at the beach and cringe-worthy Sydney commentary.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Considering that our media pound body image issues into little girls' heads basically from the day they're born, and knowing that Sydney has it worse than usual, I submit we should probably be relieved it went this well.

[AvatarVecna]

And where did I say or even infer that there might be a "manual" for the orbs? Let me make it easy, I never did. You people are taking about stuff I never said or ever even hinted at in any way and blaming me for it. So kindly stop trying to fool people with this garbage because I have never like people deliberately misrepresenting what I say.

You didn't, but you were commenting on people discussing Sydney getting more powerful/special. The orbs wouldn't be really going up in power by her talking with Crona about their workings as she understands them, Sydney would just get a better understanding of how they work, and how they're upgraded...potentially, akin to receiving a users manual. The biggest - the single absolute unbypassable - limitation Sydney's abilities have right now is that neither she nor anybody in their entire organization has even the slightest inkling of how these things operate, including the demon/alien super-magic-scientist on the team. Everything else about her powers - how many orbs she can use at a time, the power level and versatility or her orbs abilities, what two of her orbs even do - are things that could potentially be improved upon via trial-and-error with the upgrade tree...but without knowing what the upgrades even potentially represent, it's the equivalent of building a D&D character by rolling random dice for every single aspect of the character. Sure, you're still playing a Sorcerer, but some bad rolls on that spells known table can severely screw you up in the long run.

And then comes along a character who's power seems to literally be "understands and is learning the coding of the universe", who can potentially take away this one limitation on Sydney's abilities. Understandably (at least to me) the possibility that Sydney could have any idea what she's doing when upgrading represents a significant improvement in her powers even if it's not an immediate improvement, so when I saw somebody come along and say the equivalent of "I don't see why having somebody who can read the language Sydney's manual is printed in will make her better at using her power", I responded with what I felt was an appropriate amount of ridicule.

[HandofShadows]

You didn't, but you were commenting on people discussing Sydney getting more powerful/special. The orbs wouldn't be really going up in power by her talking with Crona about their workings as she understands them, Sydney would just get a better understanding of how they work, and how they're upgraded...potentially, akin to receiving a users manual. The biggest - the single absolute unbypassable - limitation Sydney's abilities have right now is that neither she nor anybody in their entire organization has even the slightest inkling of how these things operate, including the demon/alien super-magic-scientist on the team. Everything else about her powers - how many orbs she can use at a time, the power level and versatility or her orbs abilities, what two of her orbs even do - are things that could potentially be improved upon via trial-and-error with the upgrade tree...but without knowing what the upgrades even potentially represent, it's the equivalent of building a D&D character by rolling random dice for every single aspect of the character. Sure, you're still playing a Sorcerer, but some bad rolls on that spells known table can severely screw you up in the long run.

And then comes along a character who's power seems to literally be "understands and is learning the coding of the universe", who can potentially take away this one limitation on Sydney's abilities. Understandably (at least to me) the possibility that Sydney could have any idea what she's doing when upgrading represents a significant improvement in her powers even if it's not an immediate improvement, so when I saw somebody come along and say the equivalent of "I don't see why having somebody who can read the language Sydney's manual is printed in will make her better at using her power", I responded with what I felt was an appropriate amount of ridicule.

Guess what, this isn't D&D. There is no game balance. It's a written story and works on the "rules" of storytelling. So the source of your "ridicule" is based on an assumtion that has no basis in reality, a lack of faith in the writter and lack of imagination on your own part. Finding out some background on the Orbs does NOT make them more powerful. The Orbs having a connection to Krona's powers does NOT make them more powerful either and could lead to a interesting mystery. In fact if anyone would get a power boost it would be Krona given her reaction to the skill tree. You owe an apology for 2 things. One: is trying to put words in my mouth and Two: Insulting people's inteligence with that so called "justification" rather than admit you are wrong.

[Leewei]

The comic certainly has its shortcomings (say, progressing its plot faster than geologically).

One thing that works for me about it, though, is that the main character is a genre-savvy gaming nerd who gets to weaponize her inner munchkin. Knowing the rules will absolutely increase Sydney's effectiveness. She knows how and where to finesse rules with great impact, and has done exactly this a few times in the comic so far.

I'm not at all clear on what AvatarVecna wrote that offended you, but the gist of Sydney increasing power through analysis seems very sensible.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The writer has overtly stated more than once that he's a power gamer, and what were to be the three main characters (Sydney, Maxima and Dabbler) were intended to be twinked out to the max. Any assessment of Sydney's 'growth' has to be viewed in that frame. I.E. turning a skin thin shell wrapped around a collection of numbers tweaked for maximum power into something more powerful.