Arcane Trickster/Necromancer HELP!!

[SMac8988]

Hello giants, was wondering if I could get some serious help on the build layout I have for an upcoming charatcer. One of my friends picked up "Out of the Abyss", and we plan to start it shortly. I have been craving to play a rogue for a while, and figured this would be a great chance.

With that I also found a homebrew, my DM has approved, called Awakened Undead, which allows me to play a skeleton person.

We did stat buy: Current
Str - 10
DEX - 17
Con - 14
INT - 12
Wis - 12
CHA - 8.

Starting level 1 at this point, with no equipment according to the DM, avoiding spoilers on this one, so not questioning the lack of gear.

Now my idea and where I need help.

I was thinking a cool concept of the character would be he ccould "split his soul" to animate other skeletons. Using the animate dead spell. From my reading, and understanding, if I go full trickster I won't get this ability till level 17, which is serious late game if we ever even get there.

I was curious is anyone has any build suggestions or other ideas to pull this off, without just going wizard. I like the idea of him being primarily a rogue, with a few spells that can link into what he is.

Thanks in advance all!!!

[Arenabait]

Sadly, Arcane Tricksters are terrible necromancers. The only real way to be a necromancer is to BE a necromancer. If you wanted, you could take 5 levels in wizard until you get 3rd level spells I guess.

[Aett_Thorn]

I agree with the poster above, but keep in mind that if you want to go the route of a few levels in wizard, you're going to need to bump up your Int to 13 first.

[SMac8988]

5 levels of wizard wouldn't be horrible would it? Access to a few more spells and spell types. I'm not horribly versed in Wizards, so idk what else I would gain from it

[Quoxis]

Arcane trickster and wizard share the Same spellcasting stat and wizards are the Best necromancers, so that's the best way.
You could bump your Wis up to 13 and become a death cleric (not better at raising dead, but has its own flavor and good synergy with necromancy spells) or ask if you can change wis/int for cha, go bard and pick raise undead as a magical secret, but those aren't the best alternatives in my eyes...

[NecroDancer]

A level 6 necromancer wizard gets major boasts to his undead

[Sir cryosin]

There problem here is the wait to get this build going. You want atlest 6levels in necromancer Wizard. Then rogue. This build might not come online tell level 7. And for the most of time your just playing a wizard.

[SMac8988]

There problem here is the wait to get this build going. You want atlest 6levels in necromancer Wizard. Then rogue. This build might not come online tell level 7. And for the most of time your just playing a wizard.

That's true, and that's not what I want. I was hoping to just have is as like a minor side ability. Pop up a couple skeletons, help me get sneak attacks off. I don't want it to be me full build concept.

[Desamir]

I was thinking a cool concept of the character would be he ccould "split his soul" to animate other skeletons. Using the animate dead spell. From my reading, and understanding, if I go full trickster I won't get this ability till level 17, which is serious late game if we ever even get there.

You get third level slots at 13th level. Animate Dead has to wait until 14th, since that's when you get your next unrestricted spell.

[SMac8988]

You get third level slots at 13th level. Animate Dead has to wait until 14th, since that's when you get your next unrestricted spell.

I have a hard time with multi class spell casting. Can I get 3rd levels by taking like 2 or 3 levels of wizard? Since it like adds together.

[Desamir]

I have a hard time with multi class spell casting. Can I get 3rd levels by taking like 2 or 3 levels of wizard? Since it like adds together.

In order to be able to cast Animate Dead, you need two things: a 3rd-level spell slot to cast it, and the spell itself.

First, the spell slot. You need to be a level 5+ spellcaster to cast 3rd level spells like Animate Dead. Arcane Trickster levels count for 1/3rd toward this total. Wizard 2/Rogue 9, Wizard 3/Rogue 6, or Wizard 4/Rogue 3 would get the job done.

Now, the spell itself. Unless you go Wizard 5+ or Arcane Trickster 14+, you won't be able to get Animate Dead through normal leveling. You'll have to find it on a scroll somewhere and copy it into your spellbook.

How early you can accomplish this is based on how many Wizard levels you're willing to take, and whether or not your DM will grant you access to the spell in paper form.

[Bloodcloud]

It's gonna be hard. Could be a sneaky mage (get stealth from background, high dex, and some illusions or a sneaky feat). Warlock can be built as a sneaky guy who gets animate dead pnce a day.

Or... ask for a crawling claw familiar? Its CR 0 so ita not out of line. Could even be your own skeletton hand. Not quite what you asked but would sorta fit the spirit.

[Citan]

That's true, and that's not what I want. I was hoping to just have is as like a minor side ability. Pop up a couple skeletons, help me get sneak attacks off. I don't want it to be me full build concept.
Then I guess your only good solution will be to ask your DM for a homebrew solution.

For example, you could trade some spell known or spell slot from Arcane Trickster to gain a special "Find Familiar" or "Animate Undead".

Something that allows you to create skeletons, with a limit either on number, or duration.

For example, at level 3 you can animate one skeleton for one minute (concentration).
As a 2nd level spell, the duration is 10 minutes (concentration).
As a 3rd level spell, the duration is 1 hour (non-concentration).
As a 4th level spell, the duration is 8 hours (non-concentration).

Main problem with this is that skeletons are frail so it's very expensive to cast at higher level, for low return on investment.

Another approach:
- whatever happens, duration is 1 hour, non-concentration.
- you can raise 1 skeleton by spell level.
I don't think it would unbalance the game much, but you get your character concept without being deprived of half your abilities.
Since you are clearly not interested in any other features of Wizards, and this is not something you want for efficiency, should be an acceptable solution.

[SMac8988]

Then I guess your only good solution will be to ask your DM for a homebrew solution.

For example, you could trade some spell known or spell slot from Arcane Trickster to gain a special "Find Familiar" or "Animate Undead".

Something that allows you to create skeletons, with a limit either on number, or duration.

For example, at level 3 you can animate one skeleton for one minute (concentration).
As a 2nd level spell, the duration is 10 minutes (concentration).
As a 3rd level spell, the duration is 1 hour (non-concentration).
As a 4th level spell, the duration is 8 hours (non-concentration).

Main problem with this is that skeletons are frail so it's very expensive to cast at higher level, for low return on investment.

Another approach:
- whatever happens, duration is 1 hour, non-concentration.
- you can raise 1 skeleton by spell level.
I don't think it would unbalance the game much, but you get your character concept without being deprived of half your abilities.
Since you are clearly not interested in any other features of Wizards, and this is not something you want for efficiency, should be an acceptable solution.

I may run that by him. The concept I was going for was my characters skull has sugar skull carvings in it, and then he "animated" the skeletons it would be him splitting up his soul into the new bodies and the sugar skull carving would appear on the new skull while it was alive then fade the skeleton would crumble when it wore off. Maybe I can get him on board with spell slots per skeleton and hour duration. Maybe also have him be able to communicate through them, so they could work like a walkie talkie if the party is split.

[Saggo]

You get third level slots at 13th level. Animate Dead has to wait until 14th, since that's when you get your next unrestricted spell.

You can swap your 3rd or 8th free spell and get it at 13.

[Citan]

I may run that by him. The concept I was going for was my characters skull has sugar skull carvings in it, and then he "animated" the skeletons it would be him splitting up his soul into the new bodies and the sugar skull carving would appear on the new skull while it was alive then fade the skeleton would crumble when it wore off. Maybe I can get him on board with spell slots per skeleton and hour duration. Maybe also have him be able to communicate through them, so they could work like a walkie talkie if the party is split.
As long as...
- You never multiclass into a spellcaster..
- You use all the usual rules of Find Familiar for communicating...
It should be fine (the 2nd version, 1 hour non-concentration, 1 skeleton by level). Mainly because skeletons are 1/4 CR and Arcane Trickster gets few spell slots to begin with.

Also, the fluff you propose makes the "non-concentration" thingie justifiable enough (if you split your soul, it's kinda natural thing for you ^^).

And your DM can easily adapt the spell if you feel your skeletons are really too frail once you reach higher level (adding HP, half your proficiency to AC for example).

Have fun!

[Desamir]

You can swap your 3rd or 8th free spell and get it at 13.

You're correct (though technically you can't swap your 3rd level free spell for it, due to the odd wording in the PHB).

[Saggo]

You're correct (though technically you can't swap your 3rd level free spell for it, due to the odd wording in the PHB).
That was actually errata'd. Eldritch Knights can swap their 3rd explicitly and Arcane Tricksters implicitly. Crawford tweeted (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/790769412068380673) that they meant to include it with Arcane Trickster but it was an unintended omission, so it's not just his ruling/interpretation/whatever but a clerical error.

[SMac8988]

DM seems to be cool with the skeletons taking over as spell slot things

[Desamir]

That was actually errata'd. Eldritch Knights can swap their 3rd explicitly and Arcane Tricksters implicitly. Crawford tweeted (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/790769412068380673) that they meant to include it with Arcane Trickster but it was an unintended omission, so it's not just his ruling/interpretation/whatever but a clerical error.

To be pedantic, it was clarified via tweet, but it was never errata'd (added to the errata document to be included in future printings of the PHB). The intention is clear, though.