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Kaisenborg
2017-03-16, 03:20 PM
Hey I'm creating my first campaign, and I can't decide how my pantheon will look like. I am a total noob so any pointers of what to think about, maybe a list of easy steps. I'm not going to make it super duper detailed so no need for that. If you do have some cool concepts or anything that you want to share with me. I would love to here it! I am really found of the "classic" Norse and Greek mythology as well.
Thanks on before hand and hopefully I will read a few cool stories or ideas!!

Berenger
2017-03-16, 04:43 PM
I have no contribution of my own, but the Giant's "The World" (http://www.giantitp.com/Gaming.html) articles may be of use to you.

LibraryOgre
2017-03-16, 05:29 PM
One option is to simply import the classical mythologies wholesale... "This is a world of the Aesir and Vanir, elsewhere on Midgard." It has the distinct advantage of familiarity... if your players already know who Odin, Vili, and Ve are, you don't have to lay out who the gods of your pantheon are, and they can start with a native familiarity with the pantheon.

Aside from that, though, I've always liked leaving the pantheon at least partially undefined. Pick a few things that you're really going to want gods of... war, agriculture, wild places, the seas... and leave the rest undefined. Is there a minor god of thievery known as Knu-Kyle-Ra, King of the Wall-climbers? There can be. Do you need a cult for an antagonist? Then suddenly, there's Cultus, the God of Cults and Secret Societies. Depending on your system, that can be an easy way to work.

Pronounceable
2017-03-16, 08:08 PM
Easiest would be throw in your favorites from real myths. If you like Thor and Hera and Susanoo, make them the gods of your world. Or mash your faves from various DnD settings together (Bane, Moradin, Yondalla, Boccob, Lolth, et al...). DnD has literally hundreds of gods discounting the real world pantheons they outright stole, google can help you find literally dozens of deities to use in any game. There's no wrong way to go with your own campaign.

Also, since you mention story reading, I'll toot my own horn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?497963-Teaching-new-tricks-to-old-gods). Normally I don't go around shilling it but there's (a ****load of) stuff to read there and you specifically mentioned a desire to read.

Kane0
2017-03-16, 08:36 PM
I'm sure I had an old thread I subscribed to about a neat god... ah here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?252754-quot-Of-course-I-love-my-children-This-is-why-I-oppose-them-quot-(Homebrew-God)) it is.

Dappershire
2017-03-17, 01:45 AM
Here I am!

Inspiration out the tuckus.

Fable Wright
2017-03-17, 02:42 AM
If you're aiming for classical mythology feels, the first thing you need to decide is how powerful your gods are. In those myths, people know of the gods because they walked the earth and spoke with mortals; you need to know how that would be handled in your new mythology.

For example, Norse gods on the whole act a lot more like the Demigods of Greek mythology when in the mortal world. They have superheroic feats, some cool artifacts, and are very impressive to the average person, but they know and respect laws of the land. They pay weregild when they mess up, help or hinder people in mundane ways instead of turning them into monsters or animals because they can, and when skilled mortals tag along they can actually contribute and be respected for their merits.

Greek gods act like extremely powerful children. Imps, in the sense of 'spiteful little children of powerful nobles'. If you show them up, you get turned into a spider. If you're a woman and a male god shows up, something bad is going to happen to you. In battle, the best of the best heroes can maybe drive back the weaker gods like Ares, but they're on the whole not going to influence any sort of divine battles. Gods show up with powerful artifacts and explicit magic instead of mundane advice.

Alternatively, you could go for Eberron-style gods that can't be confirmed to be there, or Greyhawk gods that can be confirmed to live on the outer planes, but don't really show up on the material. But since you mentioned classical gods, I assume you're going with one of the two styles above.

Next, decide a chief god and two other critically important gods. Think carefully about their portfolios; they're tied with the scope of the gods. If the domains are skies/sea/underworld, then you're going to have powerful gods; if the domains are knowledge, strength, and guile, then you're going to have much more subdued gods. Regardless of scope, the bulk of myths will involve these big three players, but there's going to be a fairly large supporting cast that will have one-off mentions that you won't need to flesh out much, and a few supporting roles to fill out later.

Afterwards, come up with each of the following:
—An mother deity that commands respect (Frigg or Hera)
—The reliable utility-god that people turn to for getting stuff done (Heimdall or Hephaestus)
—A god of crops, a god of seas, a god of love, a god of war, and a pretty boy. (Sif, Njord, Freyja, Tyr, Baldr or Demeter, Poseidon, Aphrodite, Ares, Apollo)
—Three beings who are not gods that control fate
—One enemy that the gods fought in ancient times that unified them (The Jotunn or the Titans)

And then you have a strong skeleton of a pantheon. Fill in a handful of relationships—let's say two friendships, one extramarital affair, two mortal enemies, and one frenemy pair, and you've got the relationships that'll let you fill in details on the fly whenever your players ask for more details.

Let me know what you come up with, and I might be able to provide more help afterwards.

junlogji
2017-03-17, 02:50 AM
Hey I'm creating my first campaign, and I can't decide how my pantheon will look like. I am a total noob so any pointers of what to think about, maybe a list of easy steps. I'm not going to make it super duper detailed so no need for that. If you do have some cool concepts or anything that you want to share with me. I would love to here it! I am really found of the "classic" Norse and Greek mythology as well.
Thanks on before hand and hopefully I will read a few cool stories or ideas!!

"God's" refers to a male deity perceived as all powerful owning something.

"gods" refers to multiple deities.

Kaisenborg
2017-03-17, 03:12 AM
I have no contribution of my own, but "]"The World"[/URL] articles may be of use to you.

Thank you, that looks like a great place to get more information. Just the thing I was looking for :smallsmile:

Kaisenborg
2017-03-17, 03:18 AM
[QUOTE=Mark Hall;21816436]One option is to simply import the classical mythologies/QUOTE]

Yeah I k of I have thought about this, but since it is the first time for. My players I would like to have something fresh, I know it might seem odd but that's how I feel. But I am going to take your advice and kind of mix the norse and Greek with a hint of extra and we will see how it goes :smallbiggrin:

Kaisenborg
2017-03-17, 03:29 AM
Easiest would be throw in your favorites from real myths. If you like Thor and Hera and Susanoo, make them the gods of your world. Or mash your faves from various DnD settings together (Bane, Moradin, Yondalla, Boccob, Lolth, et al...). DnD has literally hundreds of gods discounting the real world pantheons they outright stole, google can help you find literally dozens of deities to use in any game. There's no wrong way to go with your own campaign.

Also, since you mention story reading, I'll toot my own horn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?497963-Teaching-new-tricks-to-old-gods). Normally I don't go around shilling it but there's (a ****load of) stuff to read there and you specifically mentioned a desire to read.

Wow! That looks great! Perfect for me to read that kind of stuff. It will surely get the creative juice flowing. Since I myself don't know any of the oldschool gods this will be 100% new to me. This is btw the first campaign for me as well. So thank you for this. :smallsmile:

Kaisenborg
2017-03-17, 03:35 AM
I'm sure I had an old thread I subscribed to about a neat god... ah here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?252754-quot-Of-course-I-love-my-children-This-is-why-I-oppose-them-quot-(Homebrew-God)) it is.
Fantastic, I haven't read it all yet but I most say I like how it looks! Thank you :smallsmile:

Kaisenborg
2017-03-17, 03:37 AM
Here I am!

Inspiration out the tuckus.

Good thing you have arrived me Lord.. The others were getting worried. "shall we?" * leads you the way into the great chamber. :smallwink:

Kaisenborg
2017-03-17, 03:45 AM
Great thanks to you as well I will get back to you shortly when I've decided a little more, but I think I know in what direction I'm gonna go :smallsmile:

Dappershire
2017-03-17, 04:36 AM
Good thing you have arrived me Lord.. The others were getting worried. "shall we?" * leads you the way into the great chamber. :smallwink:

I'm about to be sacrificed, aren't I?
Speaking of though, boom, inspired! Everyone is a god! Well, not exactly. But one overarching priesthood, but each priest worships a specific "God" or "Saint". someone who went all martyr (Read: sacrificed) for the cause.
The cause being access to the priestly energy, which (Top secret here) comes from one dead (or sleeping) giant primordial alien god-like being laying just outside the prime material.
Obviously regular people don't know this. Even regular clerics don't. Their "Saint" grants them their prayer magic. Only the highest of the high know where it all comes from.
Story Twist; even wizard/ Sorcerer magic comes from this being. Maybe it wears armor that is simply draped in arcane runes, symbols, etc, that mages of ye olde times managed to wrest copies of. And these "Written spells" are what make up wizardry. They may not even know the truth. New spells occur from dream like experimentation, no man can see the forest for the trees. They see just the part of the armor they need for the magic, not the infinitely large corpse that wears it.

Anyways, isolated inspiration just now. Sorry if I rambled. But makes for a world just -juicy- with intrigue and political mysticalness, duncha think?

Kaisenborg
2017-03-17, 05:50 AM
Anyways, isolated inspiration just now. Sorry if I rambled. But makes for a world just -juicy- with intrigue and political mysticalness, duncha think?

Sound very cool indeed! If I was a bit experienced I would go for something unique and cool like this. But it was great inspiration for me that I might use (if I may) in some extend to maybe the more mysterious side of the gods. And if you got any more I would be glad to hear it :smallsmile: and btw i like rambling so no worries on that note

Dappershire
2017-03-17, 06:13 AM
No worries about experience. Explain to your players that play Clerics, to write up a "Saint" or god that they worship and follow. Explain that each God was once human. Apotheosis occurred. Due to their service to the Divine Heaven, they became Gods. Each Saint represents some heavenly attribute or Mandate, such as drinking, or protecting children. (Take a gander at Catholic Saints/ monotheistic my butt.) It allows a player to connect a God to their playstyle, rather than the reverse.
No need to tell them the truth, that those Saints were all blood sacrificed by the Church, rarely by choice; that the Church is hiding dark secrets, etc and so forth. Its not necessary for the game.
But, when you are more comfortable in play, or if you just need a hook to get a new game going; well, you've a ready made intrigue right there.

Seriously, If you don't want to hand creative control over to the player, look up lists of Catholic Saints. Each one Patronizes something. Like saint Patrick, of today. Saint of Snake Smiting and dark beer. Joan of Arc, Patron Saint of Soldiers. You can take those lists, make up new names, turn some on their heads. (Though the idea of a young girl as patron God of War is both real, and amazeballs)
The lists are already generated. Take out what you don't needs. Add some others. Fake or steal names from other sources shamelessly.

And, if need be, Dappershire: Patron God of Class and Gentlemanly Bearing has a fantastic ring to it.:smalltongue:

Cluedrew
2017-03-17, 06:50 AM
Well I will give you a moment to decide your general direction (the general feel of god you want is important). But I would like to talk about multi-quoting for a moment. If you want to quote multiple people you can use the ["+] button to select their post. Then once you reply their post will appear quoted in you starting text. You can also use [Preview Post] when you are writing to get an idea of what the post will look like. Which you can use to check to make sure your tags line up and that sort of thing.

Sajiri
2017-03-17, 07:00 AM
I read a book series recently where I quite liked the way the gods worked in it as an alternative to the usual pantheons you would expect. Their individual power would fluctuate based on how many people worship and pay tribute, either directly or indirectly (everytime a thief steals something for example, they might not be doing it with any kind of religion in mind, but they are paying tribute to the god of thieves through their actions). This made some gods that you wouldnt normally expect be the more powerful ones. The goddess of love and desire was always particularly powerful, being that there's always love or at least sex between all species and animals. Likewise the god of war was always known as very powerful, even when there werent wars going on, people were always fighting over something, animals are always killing each other etc. A harvest god on the other hand would be powerful during a bountiful season, but during a drought or the winter months, he'd lose some of his power. Whoever happened to be the strongest at the time, the other gods would more or less follow their lead, some out of respect, some just because they knew they werent at the height of their own power right now and it would be a bad idea to go causing trouble with them.

It's not my favourite pantheon, but it was kind of a nice change of pace to me compared to the usual structure you might see in mythology or fantasy settings

GAAD
2017-03-17, 07:24 AM
I'm about to be sacrificed, aren't I?
Speaking of though, boom, inspired! Everyone is a god! Well, not exactly. But one overarching priesthood, but each priest worships a specific "God" or "Saint". someone who went all martyr (Read: sacrificed) for the cause.
The cause being access to the priestly energy, which (Top secret here) comes from one dead (or sleeping) giant primordial alien god-like being laying just outside the prime material.
Obviously regular people don't know this. Even regular clerics don't. Their "Saint" grants them their prayer magic. Only the highest of the high know where it all comes from.
Story Twist; even wizard/ Sorcerer magic comes from this being. Maybe it wears armor that is simply draped in arcane runes, symbols, etc, that mages of ye olde times managed to wrest copies of. And these "Written spells" are what make up wizardry. They may not even know the truth. New spells occur from dream like experimentation, no man can see the forest for the trees. They see just the part of the armor they need for the magic, not the infinitely large corpse that wears it.

Anyways, isolated inspiration just now. Sorry if I rambled. But makes for a world just -juicy- with intrigue and political mysticalness, duncha think?

Soooo...

Bloodborne then?

Bogwoppit
2017-03-17, 08:54 AM
Before you go too far, I believe it's worth considering what you want gods to actually be in your game. Here's a blog on the topic... (http://running-the-game.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/gods-what-are-they-for.html)

TL:DR version - you should decide on the reality, and the power limits of your gods before you start play, and stick to it.

Malimar
2017-03-17, 10:26 AM
My advice: If you want your players to actually care, limit the number of gods as much as possible. Nine is just about a perfect number of gods (which gives one for each alignment, which is important if you're playing a version of D&D with nine alignments); twelve is pushing it. Any more and the average player's capacity to care about them will be exceeded.

If you have a lot of good ideas for gods, you can achieve this more limited number by combining them. Especially good is combining them in weird ways that you wouldn't necessarily expect (see, for example, the Greek/Roman Athena/Minerva, who combines the portfolios of War and Wisdom and Art and some others).

A more specific note on something that many D&D pantheons inexplicably leave out: fertility gods. These ought to be the most important god to an agricultural society, so a pantheon that leaves them out is missing something important. My setting has two: a good one of agriculture and art and alcohol and fertility (basically a female Dionysus/Bacchus with a bit of other stuff thrown in), and an evil one of fire and destruction who pertains to fertility vis-à-vis monsters (like the Greek Echidna or Golarion's Lamashtu).

Another fun thing, once you have your list of gods, is to come up with a list of almost random stuff that's sacred to each god, as real-world pantheons tend to have. An example from my pantheon: "Light, the sun, fighting against evil, dandelions, actual lions, gold and platinum, summer, butterflies, dragonflies, peacocks, cats, goldfinches, and good dragons are sacred to Numiel."

War_lord
2017-03-17, 10:43 AM
My advice: If you want your players to actually care, limit the number of gods as much as possible. Nine is just about a perfect number of gods (which gives one for each alignment, which is important if you're playing a version of D&D with nine alignments); twelve is pushing it. Any more and the average player's capacity to care about them will be exceeded

That's good advice if the DM plans for his Pantheon to be major players in the setting. If they're mostly just background entities, he can go nuts. Classical mythology had hundreds of local minor deities beyond the major Pantheon.

My personal advice is the start from the beginning, how was the world created, are the deities capital "G" Gods or just very powerful beings older then humans? I would advise against taking Gods from actual mythology, because then your players are inevitably going to bring certain preconceptions into play when they hear the name "Zeus" for example.

Zale
2017-03-17, 11:01 PM
If you're pressed for time, then you could always just take a bunch of Classic gods and then just invert their genders, then make sense of the new dynamics.

It also results in a load of influential goddesses who aren't associated with love, beauty, fertility or healing, which I take as a fringe benefit.

ArgentumRegio
2017-03-18, 10:36 AM
I eschew use of 'real world' mythologies - there _may_ be those who venerate those gods and frankly I don't use Jehovah for the same reasons; avoid offending and 'what makes you think you can think like [place real world mythos figure here]'. I play fantasy games and I feel fantasy pantheons belong there.

What I know about myths come to me from way back and are filtered and muddled along the way, why not start with a fresh fully detailed set of gods that make sense in YOUR campaign rather than try to build a world around some existing myths that did not evolve there?

I recommend you make one or more custom pantheons.

Kaisenborg
2017-03-18, 01:04 PM
Well I will give you a moment to decide your general direction (the general feel of god you want is important). But I would like to talk about multi-quoting for a moment. If you want to quote multiple people you can use the ["+] button to select their post. Then once you reply their post will appear quoted in you starting text. You can also use [Preview Post] when you are writing to get an idea of what the post will look like. Which you can use to check to make sure your tags line up and that sort of thing.

I'm sorry about this mess that my thread have become, and it is 100% my doing. I didn't know about the "+" thing. My apologies.



I read a book series recently where I quite liked the way the gods worked in it as an alternative to the usual pantheons you would expect. Their individual power would fluctuate based on how many people worship and pay tribute, either directly or indirectly (everytime a thief steals something for example, they might not be doing it with any kind of religion in mind, but they are paying tribute to the god of thieves through their actions). This made some gods that you wouldnt normally expect be the more powerful ones. The goddess of love and desire was always particularly powerful, being that there's always love or at least sex between all species and animals. Likewise the god of war was always known as very powerful, even when there werent wars going on, people were always fighting over something, animals are always killing each other etc. A harvest god on the other hand would be powerful during a bountiful season, but during a drought or the winter months, he'd lose some of his power. Whoever happened to be the strongest at the time, the other gods would more or less follow their lead, some out of respect, some just because they knew they werent at the height of their own power right now and it would be a bad idea to go causing trouble with them.

It's not my favourite pantheon, but it was kind of a nice change of pace to me compared to the usual structure you might see in mythology or fantasy settings

It is an interesting idea and i like that the power of the gods is so dependent on the people but i feel like it would be difficult for me to handle. Its easier just having them on 1 power level ofc some variation for flavor. But thank you for the input I will save it in the back f my head.


Before you go too far, I believe it's worth considering what you want gods to actually be in your game. Here's a blog on the topic... (http://running-the-game.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/gods-what-are-they-for.html)

TL:DR version - you should decide on the reality, and the power limits of your gods before you start play, and stick to it.
Thank you, i will keep this in mind when I'm creating.



My advice: If you want your players to actually care, limit the number of gods as much as possible. Nine is just about a perfect number of gods (which gives one for each alignment, which is important if you're playing a version of D&D with nine alignments); twelve is pushing it. Any more and the average player's capacity to care about them will be exceeded.

If you have a lot of good ideas for gods, you can achieve this more limited number by combining them. Especially good is combining them in weird ways that you wouldn't necessarily expect (see, for example, the Greek/Roman Athena/Minerva, who combines the portfolios of War and Wisdom and Art and some others).

A more specific note on something that many D&D pantheons inexplicably leave out: fertility gods. These ought to be the most important god to an agricultural society, so a pantheon that leaves them out is missing something important. My setting has two: a good one of agriculture and art and alcohol and fertility (basically a female Dionysus/Bacchus with a bit of other stuff thrown in), and an evil one of fire and destruction who pertains to fertility vis-à-vis monsters (like the Greek Echidna or Golarion's Lamashtu).

Another fun thing, once you have your list of gods, is to come up with a list of almost random stuff that's sacred to each god, as real-world pantheons tend to have. An example from my pantheon: "Light, the sun, fighting against evil, dandelions, actual lions, gold and platinum, summer, butterflies, dragonflies, peacocks, cats, goldfinches, and good dragons are sacred to Numiel."


That's good advice if the DM plans for his Pantheon to be major players in the setting. If they're mostly just background entities, he can go nuts. Classical mythology had hundreds of local minor deities beyond the major Pantheon.

My personal advice is the start from the beginning, how was the world created, are the deities capital "G" Gods or just very powerful beings older then humans? I would advise against taking Gods from actual mythology, because then your players are inevitably going to bring certain preconceptions into play when they hear the name "Zeus" for example.

Thank you for both of your view points and Im kind of taking both of your advice. I will have a decent amount of gods like greek mythology maybe 9 as you you suggest Mailmar. But i would also like to have a few "children" / Demi-gods under them. because i dont want my "regular" gods to care too much about thei people so the lower gods will deal with interfering with the people. I just have rough ideas but basicly that is the way im going. I will write more about that later on when I have time.

Thank you for all the inputs!