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AvatarVecna
2017-03-17, 05:31 PM
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per Empowered level
Hit Points At 1st Level: 8+Constitution modifier
Hit Points At Higher Levels: 1d8 (5)+Constitution modifier

Proficiencies
Armor: All
Weapons: All
Skills: Any Two
Saves: Strength, Dexterity

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

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Level
Proficiency Bonus
Class Features
Improved Mobility


1
+2
Unarmored Defense, Path To Perfection
+0 ft


2
+2
Flawless, Improved Mobility (Dash)
+5 ft


3
+2
Bonus Proficiencies, Precision Strike
+5 ft


4
+2
Ability Score Increase
+5 ft


5
+3
Extra Attack
+5 ft


6
+3
Path Feature, Improved Mobility (Withdraw)
+5 ft


7
+3
Bonus Proficiencies, Precision Strike +1d4
+5 ft


8
+3
Ability Score Increase
+10 ft


9
+4
Expertise, Path Feature
+10 ft


10
+4
Improved Mobility (Dodge), Precision Strike +1d6
+10 ft


11
+4
Bonus Proficiencies, Improved Critical
+10 ft


12
+4
Ability Score Increase
+10 ft


13
+5
Path Feature, Precision Strike +1d8
+10 ft


14
+5
Improved Mobility Improvement, Casual Mastery
+15 ft


15
+5
Bonus Proficiencies, Improved Mobility (Attack)
+15 ft


16
+5
Ability Score Increase
+15 ft


17
+6
Path Feature, Expertise
+15 ft


18
+6
Bonus Proficiencies, Precision Strike +1d10
+15 ft


19
+6
Ability Score Increase
+15 ft


20
+7*
Perfection
+20 ft




Class Features

Unarmored Defense: While not wearing armor and not using a shield, your Armor Class is equal to 10+your Proficiency bonus+your Dexterity modifier.

Path To Perfection: Choose your path to perfection: Path To Enlightenment, Path To Godhood, or Path To Victory.

Flawless: Starting at 2nd level, add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) to any ability check you aren't proficient in. This bonus supcedes (does not stack with) similar abilities.

Improved Mobility: Starting at 2nd level, add the bonus in the Efficient Mobility column to your land speed. Additionally, you may take the action(s) specified in parentheses as a Bonus Action. Starting at 14th lvl, you may run on walls or across liquid surfaces without falling, although you must end your movement on a surface that can support you.

Bonus Proficiencies: At levels 3, 7, 11, 15, and 18 you become proficient in either one saving throw or two ability checks of your choice.

Precision Strike: Starting at 3rd level, you may add your proficiency bonus to your damage rolls whenever you make a weapon attack. Starting at 7th level, whenever you make an attack roll with advantage, you gain +1d4 damage; you also gain this bonus damage die if you score a critical hit, regardless of whether you had advantage or not. This bonus damage die increases one step at levels 10, 13, and 18.

Ability Score Increase: When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Extra Attack: Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

Expertise: At 9th level, and again at 17th level, select two ability checks you are proficient in; you now add your proficiency bonus to those ability checks twice instead of once.

Improved Critical: Starting at 11th level, you score a critical hit when you roll a 19 or 20 on the die.

Casual Mastery: Starting at 14th level, whenever you attempt an ability check you are proficient in, if your d20 roll would be 9 or less, it counts as 10.

Perfection: Starting at 20th level, you have advantage on all attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. Additionally, your proficiency bonus is now +7 instead of the normal +6.

Some people are born powerful, the creative forces of the universe flowing in their veins; some people are handed that power, blessed by the universe with unnatural gifts. And some people, like you, achieve that level of awesome power through a mindnumbingly brutal amount of training, practice, and pain.

Body, Mind, Soul: Select either Constitution or Wisdom when you gain this feature at 1st level; you may substitute that attribute's modifier in place of either your proficiency bonus or your Dexterity modifier when determining your AC due to Unarmored Defense; you may also use this stat to determine your attack and damage bonuses for weapon attacks. You may change around what values are substituted whenever you like, but the choice between Constitution and Wisdom cannot be changed after it is made.

Practiced Kata: Starting at 1st level, your unarmed strikes deal 1d4 damage. At levels 5, 11, and 17, increase this base damage die by one step. If you have levels in Monk, the levels from that class and this one stack to determine your unarmed strike die.

Ki Healing: Starting at 7th level, you can spend an action to move a portion of your ki through another's body, cleansing and healing them. You begin each day with a pool of Ki Healing points equal to your Empowered level times 5. You may use these points to heal HP damage 1 point per HP healed; you may also spent 5 points to cure the target of one disease or neutralize one poison affecting it, 20 points to relieve it of a persistent condition, or 40 points to relieve a target of one level of exhaustion. Finally, if you are at least 13th level, by spending 100 points and taking a level of exhaustion, you may raise from the dead a target who is willing/able to return and has not been dead for longer than 1 hour. This pool of points recharges after a long rest.

If you wish to spend more points than are currently in your pool, or wish to not use up so many Ki Healing points, you may substitute your own HP for Ki Healing points. The usual rules for massive damage apply; you can very well kill yourself attempting this if you're too low on HP.

Indomitable Soul: Beginning at 10th level, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail. If you do so, you must use the new roll, and you can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest. You can use this feature twice between long rests starting at 17th level. Additionally, you gain a Fighting Style of your choice.

Soaring Spirit: Starting at 13th level, you gain the ability to fly under your own power, at a speed equal to twice your Improved Mobility speed bonus.

True Enlightenment: Your understanding of your own body, mind, and soul grants you capabilities beyond that of mortals. Select three cantrips; you can cast these spells at-will. A number of times per long rest equal to your highest attribute modifier, you may cast a spell from any list of a level no greater than one fifth your Empowered level. Once per long rest, you may cast a spell from any list of a level no greater than one third your Empowered level.

You've got godblood flowing in your veins - a bit of it, at least, but probably a lot. You've got the potential in you to tear the world asunder and rebuild it anew, but you've yet to unlock your full potential.

Body, Mind, Soul: Select either Constitution or Charisma when you gain this feature at 1st level; you may substitute that attribute's modifier in place of either your proficiency bonus or your Dexterity modifier when determining your AC due to Unarmored Defense; you may also use this stat to determine your attack and damage bonuses for weapon attacks. You may change around what values are substituted whenever you like, but the choice between Constitution and Charisma cannot be changed after it is made.

More Than A Mortal: Starting at 1st level, add twice your Empowered level to your maximum HP total.

Inner Divinity: Starting at 7th level, you may reduce the damage you take from any source by your proficiency bonus. Additionally, whenever you spent Hit Dice to recover HP during a short rest, add your Proficiency bonus to the total number of HP restored in that rest (this is per rest, not per HD spent).

Divine Intervention: Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your divine parent (or the spark of divine power inside of you) to intervene on your behalf when your need is great. Imploring this aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your Empowered level, your deity intervenes. The GM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any thematically appropriate cleric domain spell would be appropriate.

If you successfully gain intervention, you can't use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a long rest. At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required.

Powerful Strike: From 13th level onward, Precision Strike grants you an additional bonus damage die of the same size.

Demigod: Starting at 17th level, whenever your HP is reduced below half of your maximum HP, you regenerate 5+your Constitution modifier HP at the beginning of each of your turns until you are no longer below half health.

Are you a precognitive, peering into the immediate future? Are you blessed by Karma and Fate? Have you realized life is a simulation that you're capable of hacking into and altering? Who can say for sure. What's undeniable is how virtually untouchable you are, how difficult you are to fight, how everything seems to go your way.

Body, Mind, Soul: Select either Intelligence or Charisma when you gain this feature at 1st level; you may substitute that attribute's modifier in place of either your proficiency bonus or your Dexterity modifier when determining your AC due to Unarmored Defense; you may also use this stat to determine your attack and damage bonuses for weapon attacks. You may change around what values are substituted whenever you like, but the choice between Intelligence and Charisma cannot be changed after it is made.

Victory: Starting at 1st level, you start every day with a pool of Victory dice, which are a number of d20s equal to your Empowered level. Whenever a creature you can see or hear rolls a d20 for any reason, you may add a Victory die to their dice pool to either aid them (give them advantage) or hurt them (disadvantage); spending a Victory die in this way takes no action. No individual roll can be influenced by more than one Victory die. If the target is already rolling multiple dice for their roll (from possessing advantage/disadvantage), your Victory die changes the number of dice rolled in whatever direction you would prefer to change it (thus, you could help an advantageous ally roll 3d20b1, or hinder an advantageous enemy and turn their 2d20b1 back into 1d20).

Uncanny Dodge: Beginning at 7th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack's damage against you. Alternatively, you may use your Reaction and spend a Victory die to act as if the source of damage didn't affect you at all (including for the purposes of anything else it might do).

10: Starting at 10th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon's fiery breath or an ice storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Eternally Victorious: Starting at 13th level, you regain half your maximum Victory dice pool (rounded down) when you take a short rest. Additionally, spending a Victory die on Uncanny Dodge no longer costs your reaction.

Undefeatable: From 17th level onward, anybody rolling an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check directly in opposition to you (rolling to attack you, to save against a spell you cast, to escape your grapple) rolls with disadvantage. Whenever you start an encounter with less than your full number of Victory dice remaining, you gain 4 Victory dice (to a maximum of your normal daily maximum Victory dice).

Not quite sure what to do for starting equipment yet, but I had to run an errand and figured I'd get this up. I'm sure it's horribly broken, and I'm sure at least a couple helpful souls will be able to help me fix that. I also feel like Enlightened's 17th lvl feature isn't great, but it's what I thought of at the time and I've yet to think of something better.

JNAProductions
2017-03-17, 05:37 PM
6th level-it's called Disengage.

10th level-Dodge is too much.

15th level-Extra Attack plus bonus action attack is effectively four attacks. At level. Nop.

Perfection is goddamn ridiculous, but I'm sure you knew that.

Body, Mind, And Soul is ridiculous. It makes you 100% Con SAD.

Undefeatable is ridiculous as well.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-17, 06:16 PM
Unarmored Defense: While not wearing armor and not using a shield, your Armor Class is equal to 10+your Proficiency bonus+your Dexterity modifier. Ability scores cap at 5, while proficiency caps at 6. Ability scores cost ASIs to improve, while proficiency improves for free. This feature grants a powerful and free defense, which is fine only if you don't grant too many bonuses on top of this.


Flawless: Starting at 2nd level, add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) to any ability check you aren't proficient in. This bonus supcedes (does not stack with) similar abilities.This is fine—it's just Jack of All Trades—but it makes me wonder what you're going for with this class. Unarmored Defense is typical of expert, front-line combatants while JoAT plays up the Bard's role as a skill monkey. You can't go both ways, because if you do you're outclassing both options.


Improved Mobility: Starting at 2nd level, add the bonus in the Efficient Mobility column to your land speed. Additionally, you may take the action(s) specified in parentheses as a Bonus Action. Starting at 14th lvl, you may run on walls or across liquid surfaces without falling, although you must end your movement on a surface that can support you.Monks gain this sort of mobility because they are skirmishers: they weave through combat and meddle, but don't trade damage like Fighters and Barbarians. Make sure your class doesn't gain the best of both worlds.


Bonus Proficiencies: At levels 3, 7, 11, 15, and 18 you become proficient in either one saving throw or two ability checks of your choice. Understand that no other class can gain this many skill proficiencies, and that no other class can gain this many saving throw proficiencies this early. If you're making a skill monkey do just that. If you're making a front-liner, do just that. You can't have it both ways without some kind of compromise.


Precision Strike: Starting at 3rd level, you may add your proficiency bonus to your damage rolls whenever you make a weapon attack. Starting at 7th level, whenever you make an attack roll with advantage, you gain +1d4 damage; you also gain this bonus damage die if you score a critical hit, regardless of whether you had advantage or not. This bonus damage die increases one step at levels 10, 13, and 18.No. Nobody needs this kind of free damage. Barbarians get smaller bonus during Rage.


Ability Score Increase: When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature. Fine, of course.


Extra Attack: Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Fine, of course.


Expertise: At 9th level, and again at 17th level, select two ability checks you are proficient in; you now add your proficiency bonus to those ability checks twice instead of once. Skill monkey or front liner?


Improved Critical: Starting at 11th level, you score a critical hit when you roll a 19 or 20 on the die.Skill monkey or front liner?


Casual Mastery: Starting at 14th level, whenever you attempt an ability check you are proficient in, if your d20 roll would be 9 or less, it counts as 10.Skill monkey or front liner?


Perfection: Starting at 20th level, you have advantage on all attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. Additionally, your proficiency bonus is now +7 instead of the normal +6.Absolutely inconceivable.



When you're already aware that your homebrew is overpowered, please just nerf it before you post it. Very little can be said about this except that it tries to be the best at everything, stacking numeric bonuses, which is both unbalanced and unfun.


Body, Mind, Soul: Select either Constitution or Wisdom when you gain this feature at 1st level; you may substitute that attribute's modifier in place of either your proficiency bonus or your Dexterity modifier when determining your AC due to Unarmored Defense; you may also use this stat to determine your attack and damage bonuses for weapon attacks. You may change around what values are substituted whenever you like, but the choice between Constitution and Wisdom cannot be changed after it is made.Questionable. The Unarmored Defense bit is fine (it actually makes your defense more expensive and ultimately lower), but using Con for attacks means you can access Strength weapons while dumping Strength. This subclass can invest in offense and defense simultaneously, and while anyone with a finesse weapon can do the same, they do so while restricted to finesse weapons[/I], which are weaker.


Practiced Kata: Starting at 1st level, your unarmed strikes deal 1d4 damage. At levels 5, 11, and 17, increase this base damage die by one step. If you have levels in Monk, the levels from that class and this one stack to determine your unarmed strike die.The increased damage is fine. The stacking is probably not. A 2nd level character could gain 1d8 Unarmed Strikes that way.


Ki Healing: Starting at 7th level, you can spend an action to move a portion of your ki through another's body, cleansing and healing them. You begin each day with a pool of Ki Healing points equal to your Empowered level times 5. You may use these points to heal HP damage 1 point per HP healed; you may also spent 5 points to cure the target of one disease or neutralize one poison affecting it, 20 points to relieve it of a persistent condition, or 40 points to relieve a target of one level of exhaustion. Finally, if you are at least 13th level, by spending 100 points and taking a level of exhaustion, you may raise from the dead a target who is willing/able to return and has not been dead for longer than 1 hour. This pool of points recharges after a long rest.

If you wish to spend more points than are currently in your pool, or wish to not use up so many Ki Healing points, you may substitute your own HP for Ki Healing points. The usual rules for massive damage apply; you can very well kill yourself attempting this if you're too low on HP.Seems fine.


Indomitable Soul: Beginning at 10th level, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail. If you do so, you must use the new roll, and you can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest. You can use this feature twice between long rests starting at 17th level. Additionally, you gain a Fighting Style of your choice.So basically, all the best bits of the Monk, Paladin and Fighter? "Being the best" is the goal but stepping on other classes toes is always unfun.


Soaring Spirit: Starting at 13th level, you gain the ability to fly under your own power, at a speed equal to twice your Improved Mobility speed bonus.Too much. Why would they need this kind of mobility?


True Enlightenment: Your understanding of your own body, mind, and soul grants you capabilities beyond that of mortals. Select three cantrips; you can cast these spells at-will. A number of times per long rest equal to your highest attribute modifier, you may cast a spell from any list of a level no greater than one fifth your Empowered level. Once per long rest, you may cast a spell from any list of a level no greater than one third your Empowered level.Ooh, cutting in on Bards too!


Body, Mind, Soul: Select either Constitution or Charisma when you gain this feature at 1st level; you may substitute that attribute's modifier in place of either your proficiency bonus or your Dexterity modifier when determining your AC due to Unarmored Defense; you may also use this stat to determine your attack and damage bonuses for weapon attacks. You may change around what values are substituted whenever you like, but the choice between Constitution and Charisma cannot be changed after it is made. As before


More Than A Mortal: Starting at 1st level, add twice your Empowered level to your maximum HP total.A class with defenses this robust needs no such bonus. This is equivalent to a d12 hit die.


Inner Divinity: Starting at 7th level, you may reduce the damage you take from any source by your proficiency bonus. Additionally, whenever you spent Hit Dice to recover HP during a short rest, add your Proficiency bonus to the total number of HP restored in that rest (this is per rest, not per HD spent).A class with defenses this robust needs no such bonus.


Divine Intervention: Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your divine parent (or the spark of divine power inside of you) to intervene on your behalf when your need is great. Imploring this aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your Empowered level, your deity intervenes. The GM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any thematically appropriate cleric domain spell would be appropriate.

If you successfully gain intervention, you can't use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a long rest. At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required.Toes stepped on: 6/12


Powerful Strike: From 13th level onward, Precision Strike grants you an additional bonus damage die of the same size.No.


Demigod: Starting at 17th level, whenever your HP is reduced below half of your maximum HP, you regenerate 5+your Constitution modifier HP at the beginning of each of your turns until you are no longer below half health.This class does not need improved defenses (or Fighter features!)


Body, Mind, Soul: Select either Intelligence or Charisma when you gain this feature at 1st level; you may substitute that attribute's modifier in place of either your proficiency bonus or your Dexterity modifier when determining your AC due to Unarmored Defense; you may also use this stat to determine your attack and damage bonuses for weapon attacks. You may change around what values are substituted whenever you like, but the choice between Intelligence and Charisma cannot be changed after it is made. Actually not bad!


Victory: Starting at 1st level, you start every day with a pool of Victory dice, which are a number of d20s equal to your Empowered level. Whenever a creature you can see or hear rolls a d20 for any reason, you may add a Victory die to their dice pool to either aid them (give them advantage) or hurt them (disadvantage); spending a Victory die in this way takes no action. No individual roll can be influenced by more than one Victory die. If the target is already rolling multiple dice for their roll (from possessing advantage/disadvantage), your Victory die changes the number of dice rolled in whatever direction you would prefer to change it (thus, you could help an advantageous ally roll 3d20b1, or hinder an advantageous enemy and turn their 2d20b1 back into 1d20).
This is an almost strictly superior version of the Divination Wizard, (7/12 toes stepped on). While an interesting feature, this is likely too strong.


Uncanny Dodge: Beginning at 7th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack's damage against you.This is alright in solution, though perhaps too much for a class this strong.


Alternatively, you may use your Reaction and spend a Victory die to act as if the source of damage didn't affect you at all (including for the purposes of anything else it might do).Skeptical.


10: Starting at 10th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon's fiery breath or an ice storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.Ditto


Eternally Victorious: Starting at 13th level, you regain half your maximum Victory dice pool (rounded down) when you take a short rest. Additionally, spending a Victory die on Uncanny Dodge no longer costs your reaction.Making a strong feature stronger.


Undefeatable: From 17th level onward, anybody rolling an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check directly in opposition to you (rolling to attack you, to save against a spell you cast, to escape your grapple) rolls with disadvantage. Whenever you start an encounter with less than your full number of Victory dice remaining, you gain 4 Victory dice (to a maximum of your normal daily maximum Victory dice).Obviously incredibly overpowered.

AvatarVecna
2017-03-17, 07:45 PM
Before responding, for future reference: better to have one massive post than 4 smaller ones in a row. As far the goal of the class, it's intended as a versatile martial, but with the original inspiration being a class that's literally "best at everything but casting", I did my best to make a lot of more reasonable changes to make something at least vaguely viable. If I was good enough at homebrewing to balance this on my own, it wouldn't be posted yet. I'm sorry for being awful.


Ability scores cap at 5, while proficiency caps at 6. Ability scores cost ASIs to improve, while proficiency improves for free. This feature grants a powerful and free defense, which is fine only if you don't grant too many bonuses on top of this.

Barbarians get two stats and shields, where this class gets stat and proficiency. Barbarian and Monk (and Fighter, for that matter) will all have better AC for most of their respective careers.


This is fine—it's just Jack of All Trades—but it makes me wonder what you're going for with this class. Unarmored Defense is typical of expert, front-line combatants while JoAT plays up the Bard's role as a skill monkey. You can't go both ways, because if you do you're outclassing both options.

This goes for most complaints about the concept of a skill monkey/combatant combo: not only is that basically the entire point of the rogue, but the Bard fills more roles as it currently exists. Complaints about being too good at too many things are valid, but complaints about just trying to do too many things are going to be ignored when there's a core class that's simultaneously a full caster, a better skillmonkey than the rogue, and a decent frontliner.


Monks gain this sort of mobility because they are skirmishers: they weave through combat and meddle, but don't trade damage like Fighters and Barbarians. Make sure your class doesn't gain the best of both worlds.

Was always worried about the speed bonus, figured it needed to be cut back, but wasn't sure how much. I'll probably end up halving it in the new version.


Understand that no other class can gain this many skill proficiencies, and that no other class can gain this many saving throw proficiencies this early. If you're making a skill monkey do just that. If you're making a front-liner, do just that. You can't have it both ways without some kind of compromise.

The skill proficiencies issue is definitely a good point. The saves less so, but mostly because The Paladin gives bonuses bigger than this to the whole party at lvl 6, and by the time your extra save proficiencies are catching up the paladin's saves, the monk's also got all save proficiencies. One of the sub-classes getting Indomitable on top of this is probably too much though.


No. Nobody needs this kind of free damage. Barbarians get smaller bonus during Rage.

Apologies, that ability as it currently is is actually a holdover from a previous draft. The damage bonus is supposed to be half proficiency rounded down, and the die shouldn't there.


Absolutely inconceivable.

The increase to proficiency was a terrible idea even in theory; I thought that putting it in the capstone would make it vaguely more acceptable, but the capstone was already a bit much without it. do you perhaps have any suggestions for what to change Perfection to?


Questionable. The Unarmored Defense bit is fine (it actually makes your defense more expensive and ultimately lower), but using Con for attacks means you can access Strength weapons while dumping Strength. This subclass can invest in offense and defense simultaneously, and while anyone with a finesse weapon can do the same, they do so while restricted to finesse weapons[/I], which are weaker.

Yeah, making character SAD from lvl 1 was definitely a mistake, I'll be fixing that once I go in to edit stuff.


The increased damage is fine. The stacking is probably not. A 2nd level character could gain 1d8 Unarmed Strikes that way.

Not actually what I meant about the stacking, more that your effective Monk level is your Monk+Empowered levels for purposes of determining it. It's not 1d4+1d4, it's just Monk 2 equivalent (1d4). Monk 3/Empowered 2 would be equivalent to Monk 5 and would have d6, and so on.


Seems fine.

You're sure? I was really worried about this one, particularly as an extension of an existing ability that gives a non-casting method of resurrection. As far as "original" abilities, this is one of the closer ones, and it's one of the ones I'm most individually worried about.


So basically, all the best bits of the Monk, Paladin and Fighter? "Being the best" is the goal but stepping on other classes toes is always unfun.

I'm sorry I'm not more creative, and I'm sorry you think any class has "dibs" on any class feature.


Too much. Why would they need this kind of mobility?

Because flying is cool, and a max fly speed of 40ft at 20th lvl doesn't mean much when a 3rd lvl spell available 15 levels prior goes faster?


Ooh, cutting in on Bards too!

I hate this feature but I had no better ideas for what to do here that weren't basically a complete DBZ ripoff. Any idea what else could be done here? I'd prefer to get away from the casting completely on principle, but if that's not really feasible...I dunno, I'm not sure how to change this up to be more reasonable.


As before

[quote]A class with defenses this robust needs no such bonus. This is equivalent to a d12 hit die.

I'll halve it in the new version.


A class with defenses this robust needs no such bonus.

I'll figure out something to replace this, then.


Toes stepped on: 6/12

I'm sorry you think Divine Intervention isn't appropriate for a demigod.


No.

Indeed, that was supposed to be changed.


This class does not need improved defenses (or Fighter features!)

I'll probably switch this out for a slower version of the earlier DR ability, that fits more to late-game and doesn't step on the Fighter's toes as much.


This is an almost strictly superior version of the Divination Wizard, (7/12 toes stepped on). While an interesting feature, this is likely too strong.

It's more comparable to the Lucky feat, and even then is fairly different. It's also probably going to be the main focus of the remake, so I'd appreciate more feedback on it. It's probably balanced more or less fine on the low end (a single floating d20 per day is hardly gamebreaking at lvl 1), but I think it either needs to progress slower, have fewer ways to regain them outside short rests, or both. As it currently stands, it's ridiculous at lvl 20 all told, but how exactly to change that, I'm not sure.


Skeptical.

Eh. I feel that even as it currently exists on the high-end, the ability to spend a Victory die to get rid of the other half of the damage doesn't strike me as problematic. Taking away the reaction requirement later on, probably an issue.


Ditto

Sucks. It's probably staying.


Making a strong feature stronger.

Indeed, and definitely looking for more "what to do about it" feedback on this one.


Obviously incredibly overpowered.

Probably.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-17, 08:44 PM
Before responding, for future reference: better to have one massive post than 4 smaller ones in a row. As far the goal of the class, it's intended as a versatile martial, but with the original inspiration being a class that's literally "best at everything but casting", I did my best to make a lot of more reasonable changes to make something at least vaguely viable. If I was good enough at homebrewing to balance this on my own, it wouldn't be posted yet. A class that's "best at everything but casting" is overpowered by definition. You'll need to refine your goal if you want this to work at all. Perhaps a jack-of-all? Perhaps a warrior who uses tactics/int, senses/wis and teamwork/cha instead of just physical might? There has to be a tradeoff.


Barbarians get two stats and shields, where this class gets stat and proficiency. Barbarian and Monk (and Fighter, for that matter) will all have better AC for most of their respective careers.Barbarians invest in two stats (neither of which they use to attack) and Monks invest in two stats (one of which they use to attack, not that they hit hard). while your class invests in one and uses it to attack anyway.


This goes for most complaints about the concept of a skill monkey/combatant combo: not only is that basically the entire point of the rogue, but the Bard fills more roles as it currently exists. Complaints about being too good at too many things are valid, but complaints about just trying to do too many things are going to be ignored when there's a core class that's simultaneously a full caster, a better skillmonkey than the rogue, and a decent frontliner. The bard has a variety of support and utility spells, plus support and utility through skills They can dabble in blasting spells and physcal combat, but they excel in neither, and both require investing spells and ASIs.

Your class excels in physical combat and skill-monkeying without making any special investments. Being just as good at, say, a Barbarian at Barbarianing while being just as good as a Rogue at Roguing invalidates both classes.


Was always worried about the speed bonus, figured it needed to be cut back, but wasn't sure how much. I'll probably end up halving it in the new version.I'd remove it entirely, unless there's a clear reason for the class to require it. Not even Rogues and Rangers, who are thematically deft classes, don't get such a bonus, because their mechanics don't warrant the extra mobility.


The skill proficiencies issue is definitely a good point. The saves less so, but mostly because The Paladin gives bonuses bigger than this to the whole party at lvl 6, and by the time your extra save proficiencies are catching up the paladin's saves, the monk's also got all save proficiencies. One of the sub-classes getting Indomitable on top of this is probably too much though. Fair!


Apologies, that ability as it currently is is actually a holdover from a previous draft. The damage bonus is supposed to be half proficiency rounded down, and the die shouldn't there. Much more reasonable. Still quite strong, but not inconceivable.


The increase to proficiency was a terrible idea even in theory; I thought that putting it in the capstone would make it vaguely more acceptable, but the capstone was already a bit much without it. do you perhaps have any suggestions for what to change Perfection to? Even just the +7 proficiency is incredible. The Barbarian gets (up to) +7 Strength as a capstone, which +2 higher than normally possible (rather than the +1 you're giving proficiency), but far less far reaching.


Not actually what I meant about the stacking, more that your effective Monk level is your Monk+Empowered levels for purposes of determining it. It's not 1d4+1d4, it's just Monk 2 equivalent (1d4). Monk 3/Empowered 2 would be equivalent to Monk 5 and would have d6, and so on.Oh! Might be worth rephrasing, but that's much more reasonable.


You're sure? I was really worried about this one, particularly as an extension of an existing ability that gives a non-casting method of resurrection. As far as "original" abilities, this is one of the closer ones, and it's one of the ones I'm most individually worried about.It's a non-casting method of resurrection that can be used, at most, once per day, exclusively at 20th level, not unlike the resurrection spell itself, and which completely drains its user of healing abilities (unlike the resurrection spell).


I'm sorry I'm not more creative, and I'm sorry you think any class has "dibs" on any class feature It's not that they have "dibs". It's that shared features mess reduce the variety of unique options in the game and especially hamper multiclassing.


Because flying is cool, and a max fly speed of 40ft at 20th lvl doesn't mean much when a 3rd lvl spell available 15 levels prior goes faster?Pardon me. I misunderstood at as flying at twice your improved speed (that is, up to 100 feet per round with speed 50 + 20 multiplied by 2)


I hate this feature but I had no better ideas for what to do here that weren't basically a complete DBZ ripoff. Any idea what else could be done here? I'd prefer to get away from the casting completely on principle, but if that's not really feasible...I dunno, I'm not sure how to change this up to be more reasonable.Eh. You could edge just the tiniest bit further into DBZ territory and offer ki blasts of some sort. Maybe you can deal force damage with your unarmed strikes, and maybe make ranged force attacks (20/60) using the same dice as your unarmed attacks.


I'm sorry you think Divine Intervention isn't appropriate for a demigod. It's thematically appropriate, but it's another classes's thing.


I'll probably switch this out for a slower version of the earlier DR ability, that fits more to late-game and doesn't step on the Fighter's toes as much.



It's more comparable to the Lucky feat, and even then is fairly different. It's also probably going to be the main focus of the remake, so I'd appreciate more feedback on it. It's probably balanced more or less fine on the low end (a single floating d20 per day is hardly gamebreaking at lvl 1), but I think it either needs to progress slower, have fewer ways to regain them outside short rests, or both. As it currently stands, it's ridiculous at lvl 20 all told, but how exactly to change that, I'm not sure.


Sucks. It's probably staying. The only classes with Evasion are skirmishers: the Ranger, Rogue and Monk. The Fighter, Paladin and Barbarian are denied this kind of defense because, between HP, AC, saves and evasion, that would make them too difficult to take down.

I'm skeptical of this class's evasion because, until other features are toned down, it means a class with HP, AC, saves and damage gains one new way to go unscathed.


Indeed, and definitely looking for more "what to do about it" feedback on this one.I'm not totally certain, because your design philosophy is very different from mine, but I might rewrite Victory so that the character can impose Advantage on any d20 roll made by a creature who can see or hear them as a reaction. At 13th level, instead of Eternally Victorious, they'd gain Defeat and the power to impose Disadvantage in the same way. At 17th level they'd gain Turntable, which allows them to use Victorious on their own rolls.

AvatarVecna
2017-03-17, 09:23 PM
A class that's "best at everything but casting" is overpowered by definition. You'll need to refine your goal if you want this to work at all. Perhaps a jack-of-all? Perhaps a warrior who uses tactics/int, senses/wis and teamwork/cha instead of just physical might? There has to be a tradeoff.

The original inspiration was "best at everything", which I attempted to drastically tone down for the purposes of making it more reasonable for this particular edition.


Barbarians invest in two stats (neither of which they use to attack) and Monks invest in two stats (one of which they use to attack, not that they hit hard). while your class invests in one and uses it to attack anyway.

The stat to attack/damage is getting taken away across the board, making that part less problematic.


I'd remove it entirely, unless there's a clear reason for the class to require it. Not even Rogues and Rangers, who are thematically deft classes, don't get such a bonus, because their mechanics don't warrant the extra mobility.

Original class had a ridiculous speed bonus, I figured I'd give this one something more suitable to this edition. Maybe bonus action Dashing can cover that though...


Fair!

I thought so. It still leaves issues with the skills, though...and I didn't want to make it a single ability check for them because putting skill check vs save makes save look like an even stronger option in comparison. I definitely need to figure out something to do with that...


Much more reasonable. Still quite strong, but not inconceivable.

Indeed. A nice little damage bonus to help a class that's not super-melee usually catch up for the first several levels.


Even just the +7 proficiency is incredible. The Barbarian gets (up to) +7 Strength as a capstone, which +2 higher than normally possible (rather than the +1 you're giving proficiency), but far less far reaching.

It used to be worse. Don't know what I was thinking last night when I wrote up half of this, but it being 3am explains why I thought an extra +4 to proficiency over 20 levels was reasonable. Would just the advantage be a more fitting capstone?


Oh! Might be worth rephrasing, but that's much more reasonable.

Probably, yeah. I'll see if I can make it clearer on the rewrite. Honestly, I wasn't sure about it conceptually, since MCing stuff like that doesn't work for anything else in the game...


It's a non-casting method of resurrection that can be used, at most, once per day, exclusively at 20th level, not unlike the resurrection spell itself, and which completely drains its user of healing abilities (unlike the resurrection spell).

Ah, okay. You might want to check the "using your own HP in place of Ki Healing points" clause. It potentially brings the resurrection online a lot earlier, although I think the earliest it's even remotely feasible on that sub-class is around the time Cleric's get Raise Dead, and it's more likely to come online around the time Resurrection does.


It's not that they have "dibs". It's that shared features mess reduce the variety of unique options in the game and especially hamper multiclassing.

I'll try to come up with some more stuff the second time around, to make it a bit more interesting and less...toesteppy.


Pardon me. I misunderstood at as flying at twice your improved speed (that is, up to 100 feet per round with speed 50 + 20 multiplied by 2)

Ah, okay, that's a much more reasonable complaint. It might be like that in the new version, with a lowered-or-absent speed bonus


Eh. You could edge just the tiniest bit further into DBZ territory and offer ki blasts of some sort. Maybe you can deal force damage with your unarmed strikes, and maybe make ranged force attacks (20/60) using the same dice as your unarmed attacks.

Considered it, but couldn't find a way to handle it that I was super-happy with. I'll take another crack at it.


It's thematically appropriate, but it's another classes's thing.


I'll probably switch this out for a slower version of the earlier DR ability, that fits more to late-game and doesn't step on the Fighter's toes as much.

That might work well, yeah.


The only classes with Evasion are skirmishers: the Ranger, Rogue and Monk. The Fighter, Paladin and Barbarian are denied this kind of defense because, between HP, AC, saves and evasion, that would make them too difficult to take down.

I'm skeptical of this class's evasion because, until other features are toned down, it means a class with HP, AC, saves and damage gains one new way to go unscathed.

The subclass of this class that gets evasion, at the time they get evasion, has HP equal to the Monk, less AC than the monk, saves comparable/possibly better than the monk (but not Dex specifically better), and (with the current changes to their damage) has damage comparable to the monk. The HP bonus you noted earlier is a different subclass. This one is more rogueish, and has rogue problems.


I'm not totally certain, because your design philosophy is very different from mine, but I might rewrite Victory so that the character can impose Advantage on any d20 roll made by a creature who can see or hear them as a reaction. At 13th level, instead of Eternally Victorious, they'd gain Defeat and the power to impose Disadvantage in the same way. At 17th level they'd gain Turntable, which allows them to use Victorious on their own rolls.

I'm probably going to do it the other way around, more to just fit with the fluff that drove its creation: that particular sub-class is conceptually hovering between super-lucky and precognitive, which primarily helps them. Having it start out only helping them, and gradually becoming powerful enough to assist allies and hinder enemies makes more sense, and means their focus will be less split early on.

GalacticAxekick
2017-03-17, 10:21 PM
I think, first and foremost, you need to formulate a clear idea of what you want this class to be, With "best at everything" off the table, consider what might meet your goal of a martial class with more utilities.

I'd recommend:
A Fighter homebrew that grants intelligence, wisdom or charisma-based tactics and social skills: a sort of Warlord
A Ranger without magic who instead uses traps, poisons, adventuring gear and other devices in conjunction with their own combat skills, survival skills and such
A Monk that, like real martial monks, practices martial arts for fitness of mind and body, rather than war. Improved senses, mobility, reflexes and features that let them manipulate the world around them deftly would give them explorative and combat power.
A Bard with no magic: a mundane performer whose wits, intuitions and personality support their party.

None of these quite match the subclasses you've written thus far, but I think those subclasses are so different in power source and function that they should belong to different classes.
The enlightened should be a Monk subclass focused on actualizing the spirit to gain magical abilities such as flight, force damage, all that DBZ stuff folks love.
The demigod, as a representation of lineage, should probably be a race and not a class. But one class does (the Sorcerer, with its focus on inherent spellcasting). A Cleric might have a domain of "self". And since you want this to be martial, the only martial characters who draw power pureful from their own selves are the Monk and Barbarian (who use the mind and body, respectively).
The path of victory's focus on precognition has no precedent in 5e, outside spellcasting an a few features such as Uncanny Dodge. Given the restrained theme, I'd personally make this a feat or group of feats, but if you'd like it to be a class, I once gain find it best suited as a Monk or Barbarian subclass.

AvatarVecna
2017-03-17, 10:31 PM
I think, first and foremost, you need to formulate a clear idea of what you want this class to be. With "best at everything" off the table, consider what might meet your goal of a martial class with more utilities.

I'd recommend:
A Fighter homebrew that grants intelligence, wisdom or charisma-based tactics and social skills: a sort of Warlord
A Ranger without magic who instead uses traps, poisons, adventuring gear and other devices in conjunction with their own combat skills, survival skills and such
A Monk that, like real martial monks, practices martial arts for fitness of mind and body, rather than war. Improved senses, mobility, reflexes and features that let them manipulate the world around them deftly would give them explorative and combat power.
A Bard with no magic: a mundane performer whose wits, intuitions and personality support their party.

I'm probably making this more of a class that's "Martial" in power with the specific direction that power takes being up to the player. Probably the closest comparison is a magic-less Bard, but more ability to specialize in particular directions, or to go the true JoaT route? I dunno, I'll see what I come up with round 2.

EDIT: The focus on proficiency will probably still be present in some iterations, though. I might end up with a lot more sub-classes...

LeonBH
2017-03-17, 11:31 PM
On a less mechanical-related critique, what's the flavor of this class? "To be good at everything" is not a flavor. For instance, the Fighter is the trained warrior who is competent with all forms of weaponry. The Bard is a teller of tales. The Wizard is an arcanist who gained their powers through study. The Sorcerer was just born with it.

I'm getting a "to be an anime character" flavor from this class honestly, which isn't bad. I've only seen those goals (to be stronger; to be the strongest man!) in anime. But of course, bringing it to your attention. What is this class intended to do? What niche is it supposed to fill?

AvatarVecna
2017-03-17, 11:36 PM
On a less mechanical-related critique, what's the flavor of this class? "To be good at everything" is not a flavor. For instance, the Fighter is the trained warrior who is competent with all forms of weaponry. The Bard is a teller of tales. The Wizard is an arcanist who gained their powers through study. The Sorcerer was just born with it.

I'm getting a "to be an anime character" flavor from this class honestly, which isn't bad. I've only seen those goals (to be stronger; to be the strongest man!) in anime. But of course, bringing it to your attention. What is this class intended to do? What niche is it supposed to fill?

The class itself is intended as a versatile chassis from which a number of distinct martially-powered characters could spring from. This particular version isn't much of a success at all, but that was accepted going into things. As far as actual fluff goes, it mostly boils down to what you're describing, in a sense: ambition, determination, a drive to surpass yourself. The blandness of the base class is why the sub-classes have their little fluff pieces, to give them a bit of identity.

LeonBH
2017-03-18, 01:38 AM
Hmm, I'd advise you to move that identity to the base class, and make the subclasses small variations of that theme. It's neater and more self-contained, and people will have an easier time accepting the class.

Otherwise, the only reason you can have going into this class (or multiclassing into this) is "I want a mechanically strong character" which is the same as min-maxing. Not that min-maxing is bad in all tables, but a DM looking at this class may think: "oh, he's taking it to min-max. I'll just disallow it"