Top Ten Creatures in the Multiverse You Don't Want to Mess With

[atemu1234]

So far, all I've got is Lady of Pain for slot #1 and Asmodeus for slot #2. Any suggestions for the others?

[MisterKaws]

Well, you generally don't want to mess with anything related to Pandorym, since lots of deities keep an eye on him, and he is kind of a being on par with an over-deity.

I recall there being someone on a Dragon issue. It was the strongest statted creature or something.

There's also Time Dragons. You just don't mess with time dragons unless you really want to have your existence itself wiped out of the universe via unlimited time-travel.

[Vizzerdrix]

A vivasecter. (I know I spelled it wrong. Oh well Im too lazy to care atm) mm4 or 5. It steals your organs.

[Pex]

Rust Monster

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Neutronium Golem

Pretty much anything with optimized 20th+ level spellcasting

There are some pretty powerful Epic Monsters (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicMonstersAndObstacles.htm), particularly the dragons, and especially if you add on some templates like Spellhoarding. Demilich and Worm that Walks can have optimized spellcasting and class levels, which makes them particularly powerful.

[flappeercraft]

Time Dragons. Nuff said

[Vizzerdrix]

Rust Monster

What?! But rust monsters are super cute! They are just like aberrant kitties! How could you NOT want to snuggle up with one and feed it your pocket change?

[GilesTheCleric]

The Far Realm. Sure, there's probably different "individual" "monsters" there, but that's just pedantry.

[Inevitability]

The Serpent, being the source of all magic and all.

[WhatThePhysics]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Pun-Pun.

[flappeercraft]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Pun-Pun.

Well since you brought it up, I would not like to mess with the Omniscifier either.

[Kurald Galain]

The Nameless One.

Strahd von Zahrovich.

Raistlin Majere.

[frogglesmash]

That Damn Crab.

[WhatThePhysics]

Deities with at least 1 divine rank, and their proxies, as they can cast Miracle at will.

Glabrezu, noble djinn, pit fiends, and solars, as they can cast Wish. While glabrezu and noble djinn can only do so for mortals, it isn't hard to imagine them convincing mortals to unwittingly initiate their infinite ascension.

[Dappershire]

Any Kender.

[lord_khaine]

A Devourer. Most of the other things here will just kill you in messy ways, but a Devourer straight up has a motivation to consume your life essence.

A Barghest as well for that matter.

[Eldan]

Are we talking creature classes or individual NPCS?

Anyway. The Lady of Pain, of course. Most of hte Lords of Hell. Quite a few Daemon Princes too, though some more so than others. (Pale Night, Orcus). The Baernoloth, because they'd take it as a challenge. Add the General of Gehenna and the Althraloths, too. The various big multiverse ending things, like Pandorym, Tharizdun, etc. The Prisoner of Elysium. There's quite a few unpleasant gods, too.

I don't think I can cut it down to 1.

[Doorhandle]

Are we talking creature classes or individual NPCS?

Anyway. The Lady of Pain, of course. Most of hte Lords of Hell. Quite a few Daemon Princes too, though some more so than others. (Pale Night, Orcus). The Baernoloth, because they'd take it as a challenge. Add the General of Gehenna and the Althraloths, too. The various big multiverse ending things, like Pandorym, Tharizdun, etc. The Prisoner of Elysium. There's quite a few unpleasant gods, too.

I don't think I can cut it down to 1.

Just "The Lady" then. With the others, you can theoretically level-grind enough to kill them.

Speaking of pathfinder: Rovagug the rough beast, and any of his children. The regeneration of the Tarrasque, (and with the exception of the ACTUAL Tarrasque), with better stats and abilities. You'll never get rid of them OR their hunger.

[Telonius]

The Dread Gazebo.

[pwykersotz]

I would not want to mess with Zaphkiel, leader of the Hebdomad and ruler of the seventh (top) layer of Celestia. He doesn't have a lot written about him, but I would suspect he can make your day unpleasant if he gets it into his head that you're opposing him. Especially because his schtick is protecting the souls of children.

Pandorym, the Serpent, the Lady of Pain, Time Dragons, and Asmodeus are all good ones as well.

The Ancient Brethren are probably bad news to oppose. If I recall correctly, Asmodeus, the Serpent, and Jazerian the couatl deity (and Ahriman if you don't accept the lore that Ahriman and Asmodeus are the same) are all part of it, along with possibly the Lady of Pain and a mysterious and never detailed figure called the Clockmaker.

As personal favorites, I would be very afraid to oppose Vecna or Tharizdun also.

Edit: Oh, and Draedens. Just...just let them sleep. Nothing good comes of messing with the Draedens.

[noob]

1:The game master.
2:That wizard in your team that is level 1 and can cast spells of a level 9 time higher than his level and who wants the team to go on epic adventures right now and who is carrying a small glass sphere(ps: the glass sphere is a polymorphed black hole(the amount of cheese involved it astronomical in all the meanings of the word astronomical))

[Anthrowhale]

Any deity with the Life and Death (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#lifeAndDeath) SDA and death in their portflio can kill any creature they can identify on any plane at will without penalty. That is no save, no antimagic, no line of effect with the only real defense being unnoticed by deific supersensors.

[Deophaun]

2:That wizard in your team that is level 1 and can cast spells of a level 9 time higher than his level and who wants the team to go on epic adventures right now and who is carrying a small glass sphere(ps: the glass sphere is a polymorphed black hole(the amount of cheese involved it astronomical in all the meanings of the word astronomical))
Ah, an Aspect of Fromage, the deity of questionable optimization and small people who dance on yellow roads.

[Zancloufer]

Any deity with the Life and Death (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#lifeAndDeath) SDA and death in their portflio can kill any creature they can identify on any plane at will without penalty. That is no save, no antimagic, no line of effect with the only real defense being unnoticed by deific supersensors.

Actually it is explicitly called out as a [Death] Effect as it is "the same as the Destruction spell but no saving throw or material component". So while it is no saving throw and unlimited range being a Lich or having Death Ward up stops it. It's still Infinite Range no coast at will standard action Destruction/Resurrection though so it is a solid tool in any deity's box.


A Devourer. Most of the other things here will just kill you in messy ways, but a Devourer straight up has a motivation to consume your life essence.

A Barghest as well for that matter.

If we are talking about things that east souls the Spirit Eater is pretty nasty. Though it is fairly setting specific template (Forgotten Realms Rashaman [sp?] and there's only ever one of them at any given time).

Any (Over) Deity is probably not worth messing with as they are level 40+ with all sorts of built in hax not to mention you will probably bring the wrath on an entire (Demi-)Plane or even pantheon down on you.

Things like Asmousdeous and Demigorgon for similar reasons: You don't so much fight them, but the ENTIRE PLANE. Unless you fight them called away from home, then they just get better after you forget about them and murder everything you care about in your sleep or something.

On the bottom of the scary list is Time Dragon. Yes they are EPIC DRAGONS that can freeze you in time with their breath of questionable cleanliness, but they don't have Divine abilities, the capacity to eat souls or summon entire planes in their defence. They also die when they are killed unlike most other things I have mentioned.

[Anthrowhale]

Actually it is explicitly called out as a [Death] Effect as it is "the same as the Destruction spell but no saving throw or material component". So while it is no saving throw and unlimited range being a Lich or having Death Ward up stops it. It's still Infinite Range no coast at will standard action Destruction/Resurrection though so it is a solid tool in any deity's box.


Good to know, thanks.

[Schattenbach]

Overdeities and other largly undefined forces that one cannot really go against as well as any other being with enough hax to perma-kill (or otherwise permanently screw over) someone without them being able to do much against that, I guess.

Too bad that there are omnicidal deities with life and death, though. I wonder how (besides the outright threat of death towards that deity if they mess around) to much are higher-level pcs supposed to actually exist in a world like that.


Good to know, thanks.

Its nonmagical (to be more exact, it should, like most Salient Abilities, be supernatural), though, so defenses that only work against spells don't work. Soulfire Enhancement should still work fine, I guess ... maybe things that make one immune to supernatural effects, too. Divine Rank 0 (or other ways to no longer be considered "mortal") makes one outright immune to it, because it only works against mortals. Being favoured (or otherwise sufficiently related) to some equal or higher-ranked deity with Gift of Life/Life and Death/etc. and/or the means to make the deity that might otherwise kill the character might work as well.

[Nettlekid]

No one's yet mentioned Neth, the Plane That Lives, which is pretty hard to kill in that it's a place rather than an organism. Similarly, Ulgurshek the Draeden which serves as the 92nd layer of the Abyss, connected to Lolth's Demonweb Pits, is (presumably) a pretty formidable entity. Neither of those are on the level of the Elder Evils or Overgods people have already brought up, but they deserve mention.

[Elricaltovilla]

I mean personally, I'm going to avoid pissing off anything higher than CR 1, because I've only got about 12 hit points, tops.

[ATHATH]

Me.

Do do dooo, filler text, filler text, la la la la laaaaaa.

[Remuko]

Red Fel is my nomination

[Jormengand]

Red Fel is my nomination

Really? I mess with him all the time. Either he finds it too amusing to stop me or he just hasn't noticed yet.

[Raven777]

At the level you're supposed to fight it, a Red Jester (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/red-jester/), full stop. That thing ends campaigns.

[Pleh]

Really? I mess with him all the time. Either he finds it too amusing to stop me or he just hasn't noticed yet.

Clearly, the punishment you have received has broken your feeble mind into state of delerium just to escape the torment.

[ATHATH]

At the level you're supposed to fight it, a Red Jester (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/red-jester/), full stop. That thing ends campaigns.
Tru dat.


Red Fel is my nomination
+1

[Vizzerdrix]

Red Fel is my nomination

Again, another critter that I suspect is a giant kitten. I'd give Red Fel a giant bowl of milk and some cat nip :smallbiggrin:

[Calthropstu]

Again, another critter that I suspect is a giant kitten. I'd give Red Fel a giant bowl of milk and some cat nip :smallbiggrin:

Seconded. He seems pretty chill to me.

On topic, assuming deities are off the table, any creature with the ability to obliviate you. By obliviate I mean kill you, destroy your soul and make it so that you no longer exist. Alternatively, anything that can make it so that you never existed at all. Worse still, make it so that you still exist but anything you ever cared for completely disappears.

[Inevitability]

Red Fel is my nomination

My only comfort is that if Fel ever rises to power, the LNs will probably be spared.

[noob]

Now I know what creature I will make a trompe l'oeuil of for breaking the campaign: a red jester(basically I will no longer need a deck of many things to break the campaign)

[NOhara24]

A vivasecter. (I know I spelled it wrong. Oh well Im too lazy to care atm) mm4 or 5. It steals your organs.

I had my party fight one of these just last session! It's one of many monsters than can attest to the CR system being bunk, great time though.

[Zancloufer]

At the level you're supposed to fight it, a Red Jester (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/red-jester/), full stop. That thing ends campaigns.

So are Pathfinder stat blocks drunk or something? Maybe it's just me but I swear that there is a monster there that can force someone to draw from the Deck of Oh Gawd why 3+ times per round. 11 BaB, 3 attacks vs touch AC or draw from the deck. Of the ~20 options half of them are bad, and probably a quarter of them are out right devastating. Whats 25%*3 even out to the odds of totally screwing you over?

Also @ Vivisector: Not sure what they where thinking for it's namesake special ability. Is there any RAW ruling on what happens if you steal someone's heart? Otherwise for it's CR it's special ability just seems 100% fluff on top of a dangerous ambush predator.

[ATHATH]

So are Pathfinder stat blocks drunk or something? Maybe it's just me but I swear that there is a monster there that can force someone to draw from the Deck of Oh Gawd why 3+ times per round. 11 BaB, 3 attacks vs touch AC or draw from the deck. Of the ~20 options half of them are bad, and probably a quarter of them are out right devastating. Whats 25%*3 even out to the odds of totally screwing you over?

Also @ Vivisector: Not sure what they where thinking for it's namesake special ability. Is there any RAW ruling on what happens if you steal someone's heart? Otherwise for it's CR it's special ability just seems 100% fluff on top of a dangerous ambush predator.
Keep in mind that some of the GOOD results can end campaigns too, due to sudden disparities in the power levels of the players and/or the players becoming strong enough to wreck whatever adventure path you had prepared (without long and tedious modification).

[Red Fel]

Me.

That's precious. But what I really came here to see was-


Red Fel is my nomination


+1

Came to be reminded how awesome I am. Was not disappointed.


Really? I mess with him all the time. Either he finds it too amusing to stop me or he just hasn't noticed yet.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2EiYoJit4vQ/VqE0GYdxPmI/AAAAAAABWAI/qT2EiTzpGP4/s400/da14a45c-4968-4692-86af-dbacf7199dba.gif


Again, another critter that I suspect is a giant kitten. I'd give Red Fel a giant bowl of milk and some cat nip :smallbiggrin:


Seconded. He seems pretty chill to me.

And to a commoner, a housecat is not only terrifying and lethal, it is far more real than any Tarrasque or Outsider.

... Now where's my cream?


My only comfort is that if Fel ever rises to power, the LNs will probably be spared.

... Probably.

[noob]

Finding someone fun without noticing him is like being a king which is the target of a bard who using discretion and silent move use diplomacy on his target to make him love him without having the king know he even exists.
Conclusion:Jormengand have the right to do diplomacy checks on people who are not aware of him and without being discovered.

[Inevitability]

... Probably.

Who else will handle the paperwork involved in taking over an entire forum? :smalltongue:

[Elricaltovilla]

Who else will handle the paperwork involved in taking over an entire forum? :smalltongue:

The LE guys? I mean evil bureaucrats are a staple of fiction.

[Particle_Man]

Isn't there a creature that is basically a sentient sphere of annihilation? Maybe I am thinking BECMI?

[Inevitability]

Isn't there a creature that is basically a sentient sphere of annihilation? Maybe I am thinking BECMI?

It's the Umbral Blot or Blackball, and can be found in the ELH.


The LE guys? I mean evil bureaucrats are a staple of fiction.

Fact is that having LN underlings are preferable to LE ones for an evil mastermind, at least until the things you're making them do get too morally ambiguous. A LN guy who comes across a rounding error in your tax files will probably report it; a LE one will use it to funnel thousands into his private accounts without you being any the wiser.

[Coidzor]

So are Pathfinder stat blocks drunk or something? Maybe it's just me but I swear that there is a monster there that can force someone to draw from the Deck of Oh Gawd why 3+ times per round. 11 BaB, 3 attacks vs touch AC or draw from the deck. Of the ~20 options half of them are bad, and probably a quarter of them are out right devastating. Whats 25%*3 even out to the odds of totally screwing you over?

It is Necromancer Games content, after all. So there's some expectation for things to be kooky, given that's the outfit that Gygax was part of towards the end. At least as I recall. There's a mixture of OP and underpowered and just plain weird stuff in their Tome of Horrors as I recall. The main thing I remember being interested in there was the Dire Animal template.

0.25^3 would give you the odds of getting screwed each time. Or 1.56% chance of getting devastated each time.

.75^3 is what you'd need to have the odds of not getting screwed at all. AKA ~42.1875% So that'd give a 57.8125% chance of getting at least one bad result by subtracting that probability from 1.

You could also brute force it and add together (.25*.75*.75) + (.75*.25*.75) + (.75*.75*.25) + (.25*.25*.25) + (.25*.25*.75) + (.25*.75*.25) + (.75*.25*.25) to get 57.8125% as well.

As mentioned by ATHATH, though, there's good results which will end the campaign as well. Like one of the characters ending up with an improbably high number of cohorts and/or henchmen that are all level 4 Fighters.


Fact is that having LN underlings are preferable to LE ones for an evil mastermind, at least until the things you're making them do get too morally ambiguous. A LN guy who comes across a rounding error in your tax files will probably report it; a LE one will use it to funnel thousands into his private accounts without you being any the wiser.

That's one reason why I want to make an LN cult of Asmodeus in my Way of the Wicked campaign.

The other is that if they're not themselves Evil(yet), then they won't ping on Detect Evil while doing my bidding in town if the Pallys start doing random sweeps.

[atemu1234]

Because of the whole "Red Fel = Cat" thing, now all I can think about is the time I applied the Kaiju template from Dragon Magazine to a housecat.

And also the time I applied it to the tarrasque.

[flappeercraft]

Red Fel would be this but replace tarrasque with cathttp://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?280524-Tarrasque-17-Templates-3-5e

[Pleh]

Fact is that having LN underlings are preferable to LE ones for an evil mastermind, at least until the things you're making them do get too morally ambiguous. A LN guy who comes across a rounding error in your tax files will probably report it; a LE one will use it to funnel thousands into his private accounts without you being any the wiser.

Fact is that LE sees two types of people in the world: actual underlings and functional underlings.

The LN will report the rounding error, but may decide to report it to the IRS instead of to the LE.

What am I saying? The IRS probably IS the LE.

[Milo v3]

Red Fel would be this but replace tarrasque with cathttp://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?280524-Tarrasque-17-Templates-3-5e

Ah my youth.

I'd suggest my 79-template version for Red Fel rather than the 17, but something about the fact that I didn't ever get around to putting the actual numbers in rather than placeholders seems far too chaotic for his lawfulness.

[Red Fel]

What am I saying? The IRS probably IS the LE.

Probably? I think this line's mostly filler.

[Elricaltovilla]

If you rule the world do you still have to pay taxes?

[King539]

... Probably.

Ummm... how about AD&D LG/NGs? Please have mercy.

Also, I'd like to +1 the Neutronium Golem.

[noob]

According to some readings neutronium golems die on their own due to their own damaging aura.
And there is quite a lot of easy builds to kill it(including just taking wizard levels).