Succubus's character

[Athear]

As always back for more help. For our pre-game we are playing as 18th level characters and I am playing a Non-evil succubus how ever so far she has been fun but still horrible for being a one trick pony as I have finished my monster levels and have 5 levels left to spare I want to know what classes i could use to make her more useful should my compulsions fail. this is rare but it has happened fairly frequently, and as a repentant succcubus she shouldn't rely on it as much.
I was thinking rogue would be a good fit for the last five levels, though my friend suggested paladin of freedom due to my characters insane charisma bonus.
I'd like to hear what you guys think. please not this doesn't have to be greatly optimized I just would like to have more options in and out of combat other then mass spam suggestion.

Banned books are: Dragon magazine, Tome of battle, any thing from forgotten realms or Eberon


thanks for your help

[Coidzor]

Suel Arcanamach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?159617-The-Suel-Arcanamach-Handbook) comes to mind as a potential way to add some casting quickly.

Divine Minion as a template and Master of Many Forms or Warshaper might be potentially interesting as a way to expand upon the theme of taking on other forms.

[Inevitability]

Are you taking the full +6 LA? Even in a low-optimization game, +6 makes succubi way underpowered. Depending on your optimization level, I'd put them somewhere between +4 and +2.

[Dagroth]

I seriously don't understand why so many DMs ban Tome of Battle... it's not unbalanced.

At any rate, you might auto-qualify for some PrCs... At Will Polymorph means Warshaper! The best part is, your Warshaper benefits (stats, reach, etc.) are always there. Fast healing 2 is reasonably good, but you might decide you don't need it. Get 3 levels for certain.

There's some PrC that requires you to have telepathy to enter and gives you Mindsight? It's why many people recommend a dip in the Mind Bender PrC... Maybe someone else can help here?

Edit: I know Dragon Magazine is off the table, but how about the Dragon Compendium? It's considered to be official by WotC. If so, a single level of Battle Dancer will get you Cha-to-AC.

If you've already got Dodge & Mobility, 2 levels of Arcane Duelist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) will get you Cha-to-AC

A single dip in Marshal for an Aura would be nice... Charisma bonus to caster level for overcoming spell resistance is pretty useful.

[Athear]

Are you taking the full +6 LA? Even in a low-optimization game, +6 makes succubi way underpowered. Depending on your optimization level, I'd put them somewhere between +4 and +2.
I used the savage species monster classing so yeah.

[Athear]

I seriously don't understand why so many DMs ban Tome of Battle... it's not unbalanced.

At any rate, you might auto-qualify for some PrCs... At Will Polymorph means Warshaper! The best part is, your Warshaper benefits (stats, reach, etc.) are always there. Fast healing 2 is reasonably good, but you might decide you don't need it. Get 3 levels for certain.

There's some PrC that requires you to have telepathy to enter and gives you Mindsight? It's why many people recommend a dip in the Mind Bender PrC... Maybe someone else can help here?

Honestly it doesn't matter, I was originally going to stay away from spell casting as at 18th level my spell casting would out right suck

[Dagroth]

Honestly it doesn't matter, I was originally going to stay away from spell casting as at 18th level my spell casting would out right suck

I felt the same, which is why I suggested Warshaper.

And Mindsight is a Feat from the Lords of Madness book. It's basically blindsense with the range of your Telepathy.

[Athear]

I felt the same, which is why I suggested Warshaper.

And Mindsight is a Feat from the Lords of Madness book. It's basically blindsense with the range of your Telepathy.

ah cool that makes sense
Also I think the paladin would be cool but it doesn't make sense fluff wise

[Dagroth]

ah cool that makes sense
Also I think the paladin would be cool but it doesn't make sense fluff wise

I'd say Consecrated Harrier from Complete Warrior, but Cha-to-Saves doesn't come online until 4th level. However, if you read that fluff as the fluff for Paladin of Freedom (since that's basically what it is), you might accept it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that Warshaper is a fantastic choice, but keep in mind that it says the class features are only active when you're in a form that's not your own.

[Inevitability]

ah cool that makes sense
Also I think the paladin would be cool but it doesn't make sense fluff wise

1. There's a CE paladin variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinofSlaughterClas sFeatures) that gets Divine Grace as well.

2. LG succubus paladins (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a) are an established part of the game already.

[Dagroth]

I'll agree that Warshaper is a fantastic choice, but keep in mind that it says the class features are only active when you're in a form that's not your own.

Given you're losing your Natural Armor when Polymorphed (humanoids only), you're going to want to go with a Phaerlock (Underdark) p97 or a Crucian (Miniatures Handbook) p59. Crucians have a Dex Penalty, so Phaerlock is best for humanoid with Natural Armor.

If your DM lets you get away with it, Polymorph into... a Succubus with blond hair. Given how un-OP you are, I think it should be okay.

[Athear]

Given you're losing your Natural Armor when Polymorphed (humanoids only), you're going to want to go with a Phaerlock (Underdark) p97 or a Crucian (Miniatures Handbook) p59. Crucians have a Dex Penalty, so Phaerlock is best for humanoid with Natural Armor.

If your DM lets you get away with it, Polymorph into... a Succubus with blond hair. Given how un-OP you are, I think it should be okay.

lol thats lovely

[Necroticplague]

There's a weapon in libris Mortis that let's you channel your negative level touch through the weapon. There's also a couple that make your negative level dealing more effective (one that increases the HP/negative level ration by your CHA mod, another that gives you +2 to a bunch of stuff for an hour after you deal negative levels). In a similar vein, there's also Soul Eater, for more level-draining goodness.

[Crake]

Given you're losing your Natural Armor when Polymorphed (humanoids only), you're going to want to go with a Phaerlock (Underdark) p97 or a Crucian (Miniatures Handbook) p59. Crucians have a Dex Penalty, so Phaerlock is best for humanoid with Natural Armor.

If your DM lets you get away with it, Polymorph into... a Succubus with blond hair. Given how un-OP you are, I think it should be okay.

If you look post polymorph update circa 2007 or so, succubi no longer have polymorph at will, they now have change shape (small or medium humanoids only). This comes with some ups and downs. Ability scores no longer change, and you keep your natural armor, so for a succubus, who's average stats are better than those of the average humanoid (usually 10, 10, 10, or something like that), and 9 natural armor while in her altered state, but if you want to fly with your wings, then you have to be in your base form, meaning no warshaper benefits for you.


There's a weapon in libris Mortis that let's you channel your negative level touch through the weapon. There's also a couple that make your negative level dealing more effective (one that increases the HP/negative level ration by your CHA mod, another that gives you +2 to a bunch of stuff for an hour after you deal negative levels). In a similar vein, there's also Soul Eater, for more level-draining goodness.

Succubi don't have a negative level touch though, and I suspect a reformed succubus isn't too keen on going around draining people.

[Necroticplague]

Succubi don't have a negative level touch though, and I suspect a reformed succubus isn't too keen on going around draining people.

Fortunately, Necrotic Focus works for any Ability Drain or Energy Drain supernatural ability. And, while not normal, Fooccubi's do have Energy Drain.

[Crake]

Fortunately, Necrotic Focus works for any Ability Drain or Energy Drain supernatural ability. And, while not normal, Fooccubi's do have Energy Drain.

It does, however, say "as if attacking with it's natural weapons". Succubi don't apply their energy drain through natural weapons, so it wouldn't really do anything

[John Longarrow]

Bard / Marshall would play to your strengths. Depends a LOT on what you are looking to do though.

5 levels in Bard would let you grab Alter Self. Since you are an outsider this means you can alter self into a Dwarf Ancestor (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060704a&page=3) (MM IV) for large size and +18 NA. This is always fun, even if it only bumps your natural armor by 8.

Depends mostly on what YOU want your character to be good at besides being charming? Your already a great party face and you should have massive bonuses on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate.

[Crake]

If you are fine with using your energy drain offensively, a level dip in monk with aescetic mage for cha to AC and improved grapple isn't a bad stard. Maybe even pick up some meldshaping stuff? The amount of essentia you can invest is based on character level, and you can use feats to unlock extra chakra binds (also based on character level). Girallon arms gives extra grapple I think, and there are a few ways to make yourself considered larger sizes for grappling which could let you get a nice, sizable grapple bonus. Alternatively get a level of bear totem barbarian for the improved grab special ability, and then get multigrab and improved multigrab, allowing you to conduct a grapple with just the hand you initiated the grapple with, at no penalty. Imagine: Two weapon fighting with whips, having people wrapped up in your whips as you give them each a kiss each round before going about your business for the round

[Athear]

Bard / Marshall would play to your strengths. Depends a LOT on what you are looking to do though.

5 levels in Bard would let you grab Alter Self. Since you are an outsider this means you can alter self into a Dwarf Ancestor (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060704a&page=3) (MM IV) for large size and +18 NA. This is always fun, even if it only bumps your natural armor by 8.

Depends mostly on what YOU want your character to be good at besides being charming? Your already a great party face and you should have massive bonuses on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate.

I am not allowed to be the party face one of the other players doesn't let me talk though Lilith does have +18 in all social skills. but I want to be able to actually preform in melee combat. I would rather use my suggestion powers to avoid killing and combat but when I have to fight I want to be able to do so with skill.

[Coidzor]

Fortunately, Necrotic Focus works for any Ability Drain or Energy Drain supernatural ability. And, while not normal, Fooccubi's do have Energy Drain.

Foocubi? :smallconfused:

[Athear]

Fortunately, Necrotic Focus works for any Ability Drain or Energy Drain supernatural ability. And, while not normal, Fooccubi's do have Energy Drain.

Okay heres an other question can the energy drain be turned off as it is a at will power I figured yes but my DM seems to think no unless specifically stated.
also Necrotic plague you seem to be missing the fact that my succubus is trying to be a good person not EEEVIL. now the drain she may still use if pushed but its not going to be a staple maybe?

also My stats are
Str: 12: +1
Dex: 15 +2
Con: 15 +2
Int: 24 +7
Wis: 21: +5
Cha: 34: +9

[Necroticplague]

Foocubi? :smallconfused:

Sorry, old habit from nethack. Gender neutral term that mean "incubi or succubi".

[Athear]

so pally of freedom 6 taking charging smite as a ACF
also going to take the feats Improved maneuverability, fly by attack, dodge, mobility, Improved fly by attack, power attack, wing expert.
probably use a scythe and boost My AC with bracers of armour as anything else will stop me from flying.

[Athear]

I do have a second Idea for an other character for this game and mostly stuck of feats for that character.
that character is a Corpse creature, Evolved undead 2 cleric with that build I wish too focus on hunting the undead, I have the destruction and repose domains. still I would like to be very punchy in general too.

[Dagroth]

I still say a level of Marshal will help you a lot. Being able to add your charisma bonus to various things for yourself and nearby allies is pretty amazing when you have a high Charisma.


If you look post polymorph update circa 2007 or so, succubi no longer have polymorph at will, they now have change shape (small or medium humanoids only). This comes with some ups and downs. Ability scores no longer change, and you keep your natural armor, so for a succubus, who's average stats are better than those of the average humanoid (usually 10, 10, 10, or something like that), and 9 natural armor while in her altered state, but if you want to fly with your wings, then you have to be in your base form, meaning no warshaper benefits for you.

Well, no problem then! Raptorans (Races of the Wild) are flying humanoids! Go, go Warshaper!

Edit: As an added bonus, Raptorans have feathered wings... so it will make your succubus feel more angelic!

[Mystral]

My suggestion would be bard, and then get snowflake wardance and slippers of battledancing. Then, start lopping people's head off with your great charisma.

[Mystral]

Okay heres an other question can the energy drain be turned off as it is a at will power I figured yes but my DM seems to think no unless specifically stated.
also Necrotic plague you seem to be missing the fact that my succubus is trying to be a good person not EEEVIL. now the drain she may still use if pushed but its not going to be a staple maybe?

also My stats are
Str: 12: +1
Dex: 15 +2
Con: 15 +2
Int: 24 +7
Wis: 21: +5
Cha: 34: +9

34 gives a +12 bonus.

[Athear]

34 gives a +12 bonus.

I never could math

[Remuko]

You say you need Bracers of armor because anything else will stop you from flying. Is that because youre carrying too much weight? Because with your low dex you should definitely be wearing some actual armor. Mithral Full Plate is treated as medium armor and allows up to 3 max dex which is all of your dex and costs a lot less than bracers of armor +8. Mithral helps with the weight but if thats still too heavy even a mithral chain shirt would be nice. way lighter and still a bunch more AC and you could throw some useful enchantments on it.

[Dagroth]

You really, really, really need to find out if you can get 1 level of Battle Dancer from Dragon Compendium.

Otherwise 2 Levels of Arcane Duelist (need Dodge and Mobility, which you normally get racially... but maybe you didn't get?) will get you Cha-to-AC without armor.

Seriously, get Warshaper. If you can't just be a blond succubus, then be a Raptoran and you'll still be able to fly (and have +4 Str, +4 Con, and Reach, and Immunity to Stunning and Critical Hits (and sneak attacks!)). 3 levels is enough.

So, you're Level 6 (ECL 12). If you've got Dodge & Mobility, first go 2 levels of Arcane Duelist. +12 AC (including Touch AC) is worth it.

Then 3 levels of Warshaper.

Then 1 level of Marshal. Seriously, look at some of the auras you can choose from... Stand behind the party Face and Motivate Charisma for +12 to Charisma skills! Stand near the Rogue and Motivate Intelligence for +12 Search & +12 Disable Device! +12 to Reflex saves if you're fighting a Dragon. +12 to overcome spell resistance. For 18th level Casters, that means auto-success against a Balor!

[Mystral]

One would think that a succubus would be the party face.

Honestly, I can't give a lot of suggestions without knowing what the rest of your party is and what roles you want to play. With your stats, I can't really reccommend combat, spell casting is out as well thanks to LA, the best course might be to go all in on the skills. Maybe an exemplar?

[Bronk]

I still say a level of Marshal will help you a lot. Being able to add your charisma bonus to various things for yourself and nearby allies is pretty amazing when you have a high Charisma.



Well, no problem then! Raptorans (Races of the Wild) are flying humanoids! Go, go Warshaper!

Edit: As an added bonus, Raptorans have feathered wings... so it will make your succubus feel more angelic!

Avariel as well...

[EldritchWeaver]

I am not allowed to be the party face one of the other players doesn't let me talk though Lilith does have +18 in all social skills. but I want to be able to actually preform in melee combat. I would rather use my suggestion powers to avoid killing and combat but when I have to fight I want to be able to do so with skill.

Why does that player deny you the use of that niche? Does he play a bard? Is he fearing that his character becomes useless? Personally, I'm against this kind of protection. A good party should have some overlap in their abilities in case the main niche user isn't available.

[Crake]

I still say a level of Marshal will help you a lot. Being able to add your charisma bonus to various things for yourself and nearby allies is pretty amazing when you have a high Charisma.



Well, no problem then! Raptorans (Races of the Wild) are flying humanoids! Go, go Warshaper!

Edit: As an added bonus, Raptorans have feathered wings... so it will make your succubus feel more angelic!

Raportans don't actually have a fly speed though, they have the Flight (Ex) special quality which a succubus does not get when using change shape, so she will have wings, but still be unable to fly, or even glide.

[atemu1234]

Why does that player deny you the use of that niche? Does he play a bard? Is he fearing that his character becomes useless? Personally, I'm against this kind of protection. A good party should have some overlap in their abilities in case the main niche user isn't available.

Yeah, this. If the bard didn't want to lose out their status as party face, they should have invested more into their skills.

[Rerednaw]

Yeah, this. If the bard didn't want to lose out their status as party face, they should have invested more into their skills.

+1 to this.

Also I may have missed it, but 18th level what are the other PCs? If you don't even have LA buyoff by now it's going to be rough if they are tier 3 and extremely difficult if they are tier 1-2 to keep up.

I also find it odd he banned ToB and allowed Savage Species with 3.0 content. Not that I'd ban either...

[Dagroth]

Raportans don't actually have a fly speed though, they have the Flight (Ex) special quality which a succubus does not get when using change shape, so she will have wings, but still be unable to fly, or even glide.

Rule of Cool. It's an 18th level character with 6 of that being ECL.

[Crake]

Rule of Cool. It's an 18th level character with 6 of that being ECL.

You can't just say "rule of cool" and expect it to work unless you're actually the DM, sorry.

[Coidzor]

You can't just say "rule of cool" and expect it to work unless you're actually the DM, sorry.

Unless you're able to, y'know, influence the DM through social engineering, persuasion, etc.

[Dagroth]

You can't just say "rule of cool" and expect it to work unless you're actually the DM, sorry.

What I'm saying is, the character is so non-OP that having them get the Warshaper benefits (which are cool, but not overpowering) and still fly shouldn't be a hard sell on a DM.

[Rebel7284]

Unless you're able to, y'know, influence the DM through social engineering, persuasion, etc.

The character has 34 Cha, the player may not. :P

With that said, Divine Crusader with a good choice of domain could give reasonable casting even with 6LA. Take a level of anything with full BAB, such as Battledancer, and five levels of Divine Crusader/PrCs and you end up with a 5th level spell. Add Church Inquisitor and Contemplative to make your spell list better.