How much is this?

[finaldooms]

A gave my first boss guy a ring of aura of fast healing 2 ( give all allies within 20 ft fh2) and i was wondering how much that would cost or be worth to the party of..mostly melee that im running with? An actual price for how much thos item would cost would also help

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm not aware of any existing items that have a similar effect, so we'll need to base it on a spell.

Mass Lesser Vigor is a 3rd level spell that gives Fast Healing 1 to allies within 20 ft. (Spell Compendium).
Vigorous Circle is a 6th level spell that gives Fast Healing 3 to allies within 20 ft. (Spell Compendium).

Both spells have a duration measured in rounds.

Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) has Use-Activated or Continuous priced at Spell Level x Caster Level x 2,000 gp, but if a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4.

A continuous Ring of Mass Lesser Vigor (Fast Healing 1) would be 3rd level spell x 5th level caster (minimum for the spell) x 8,000 gp = 120,000 gp

A continuous Ring of Vigorous Circle (Fast Healing 3) would be 6th level spell x 11th level caster (minimum for the spell) x 8,000 gp = 528,000 gp (an epic item, since it's over 200k)

I'd put a Fast Healing 2 version at anywhere from 235k to 296k, depending on how you figure it.


Let's say it's only usable 1/day at the spell's normal duration, instead of constant effect. That avoids the x4 cost for a duration measured in rounds, and divides the total cost by five: Charges per day - Divide by (5 divided by charges per day).

A 1/day Ring of Mass Lesser Vigor (Fast Healing 1) would be 3rd level spell x 5th level caster (minimum for the spell) x 2,000 gp, divided by 5 = 6,000 gp, duration is 15 rounds.

A 1/day Ring of Vigorous Circle (Fast Healing 3) would be 6th level spell x 11th level caster (minimum for the spell) x 2,000 gp, divided by 5 = 26,400 gp, duration is 21 rounds.

I'd put a Fast Healing 2 version at an even 18,000 gp with a total daily duration of 20 rounds, which can be split up over multiple uses.

[finaldooms]

Holy crap i didnt realize it would be that much..even 18k is alot considering the party is lvl 3 ( 4 after resting) ...i just thought it would,make for an,intresting,addition to the fight

[Inevitability]

Holy crap i didnt realize it would be that much..even 18k is alot considering the party is lvl 3 ( 4 after resting) ...i just thought it would,make for an,intresting,addition to the fight

Maybe make it part of the terrain, such as a pillar or evil altar continuously healing those nearby? This has the added benefit of making the healing something the party can respond to in ways other than 'do more damage', by letting them spend attacks to damage and eventually destroy the source of the healing.

Alternatively, you could make the boss area lesser positive dominant, giving all creatures in it fast healing 2.

[thoroughlyS]

The spell vigor (Spell Compendium p.229) grants fast healing 2. According to the rules for creating magic items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) a ring of continuous vigor would cost (spell level * caster level * 2000 * 4[for a duration measured in rounds]) = (3 * 5 * 2000 * 4) = 120,000 gp. And that is just for the person wearing the ring. Taking a cue from lesser vigor and mass lesser vigor, a hypothetical mass vigor would instead be a 5th level spell. This makes the price (5 * 9 * 2000 * 4) = 360,000 gp.

You can reduce the price significantly by making it command activated (spell level * caster level * 1800), cutting it down to (5 * 9 * 1800) = 81,000 gp. This can be reduced even further by giving it a limited number of uses per day(* x/5, where x is the number of charges). Effectively, it becomes 16,200 gp per charge.

EDIT: Ninja'd hard. Although I believe Biffoniacus_Furiou's math is off because they forgot that giving it charges would let you make it command activated:

A ring of mass lesser vigor would cost 5,400 gp per charge.
A ring of vigorous circle would cost 23,760 gp per charge.

It is also worth noting that using any of these rings would require the person to touch any allies when activating it, and each would have a limit on how many allies can be effected.

Mass lesser vigor could effect 2 creatures total (unless you increase the CL of the ring and thus, the price).
The hypothetical mass vigor could effect 4 creatures.
Vigorous circle could effect 5 creatures.

DOUBLE EDIT: You could find some alternative methods of healing, like Inevitability was suggesting. If your boss has a cleric friend of at least 5th level, they could take the feat Sacred Healing (Complete Divine p.84), which lets them spend turn undead to generate fast healing 3 for 1 + CHA rounds. Or have the allies take Healing Devotion (Complete Champion p.59) for fast healing 1/day. I would also take a look at Companion Spirits (Dungeon Master's Guide II p.194). Basically, a group of people can perform a ritual together to bind a spirit to everyone in the group. The spirit grants everyone access to a special power that gets stronger based on how many people are in the group. One of the spirits provides a pool of healing that the group members can draw from.

[finaldooms]

I didnt think a small fast healing would cost so much, it doesnt seem to mke much of a difference.
But so far the party enioyed the fight lol..the wizard is advocating chopping off the heads and using fire or acid to stop the regen ( none have even tried checking the onbviously better armored captain)

[thoroughlyS]

I didnt think a small fast healing would cost so much, it doesnt seem to mke much of a difference.
But so far the party enioyed the fight lol..the wizard is advocating chopping off the heads and using fire or acid to stop the regen ( none have even tried checking the onbviously better armored captain)
The reason it matters so much is because it means everyone will effectively start every fight at full hp. It completely obviates any other form of healing.

[Blu]

In combat fast healing 2 is not that strong. Out of combat it is. With fast healing 2, you heal 20 HP/minute so even high level characters can just sit still for 5~10 min and they're good to go.

[finaldooms]

Hmm, maybe il just change it to a certain # of rounds then its drained..or key it to infinite uses if you are part of the cult and then limited use otherwise
I was honestly bot aware it would be such an,expensive item...oh!! I could make it only work during combat and for 5 rounds after? ...would that make it a little less absurd for a lvl 4 party?

[Inevitability]

Hmm, maybe il just change it to a certain # of rounds then its drained..or key it to infinite uses if you are part of the cult and then limited use otherwise
I was honestly bot aware it would be such an,expensive item...oh!! I could make it only work during combat and for 5 rounds after? ...would that make it a little less absurd for a lvl 4 party?

Certain number of rounds until drain sounds fine. Just compare its healing output to a wand of mass lesser vigor or similar item.

The whole cult thing is interesting as well, but it may feel a bit forced to the players. Worst case scenario they end up restarting the cult to take advantage of the item. :smalltongue:

The final suggestion's feasibility depends on your definition of 'combat'. A life-or-death fight with some ogres is combat, but is a nonlethal sparring session? Is unprovokedly punching a commoner in the face? Is claiming 'I start combat with our pack mule' and intentionally missing on every attack?

[thoroughlyS]

Hmm, maybe il just change it to a certain # of rounds then its drained..or key it to infinite uses if you are part of the cult and then limited use otherwise
I was honestly bot aware it would be such an,expensive item...oh!! I could make it only work during combat and for 5 rounds after? ...would that make it a little less absurd for a lvl 4 party?

Having a limit in rounds is basically just charges/day. Unless you mean a set number of rounds period, in which case you should just make it a wand.
Infinite uses as part of the cult is both lazy writing, and inviting trouble. Why does it need to be infinite anyway? As far as the players know, the cult could've just used 1 charge before combat started.
The combat + 5 rounds is really ambiguous, and has no precedent in the game.

I still think there are two good answers, the simple and the creative:

The simple answer is an item with charges.
The creative answer is a companion spirit (DMG II). This even has the feeling of something a cult might do, but isn't necessarily evil.

[Douglas]

Holy crap i didnt realize it would be that much..even 18k is alot considering the party is lvl 3 ( 4 after resting) ...i just thought it would,make for an,intresting,addition to the fight
For 1 fight, yes. But you described an item that's active continuously all the time. Theoretically, it could heal 28800 hp per day - per person - if they were doing something all that time that keeps damaging them.

Obviously the realistic expected benefit is far short of that upper extreme, but it's also far above any typical "one fight" amount and should be priced to reflect that.

Since the reason you want it is to add something to one fight on the enemy side, just downgrade it to only work for about how long you expect that fight to take, maybe with a bit of margin, and then price it for that. 15 rounds per day should be plenty for that, or even 10 depending on your party and how big a battle it is.

[thoroughlyS]

Since the reason you want it is to add something to one fight on the enemy side, just downgrade it to only work for about how long you expect that fight to take, maybe with a bit of margin, and then price it for that. 15 rounds per day should be plenty for that, or even 10 depending on your party and how big a battle it is.
They already ran the encounter, though I agree that one solution is to limit the amount of time the item functions.

[Nupo]

Theoretically, it could heal 28800 hp per day - per person - if they were doing something all that time that keeps damaging them.Just hope a bad guy doesn't get ahold of it. Just picture a bad guy in a torture chamber wearing it wounding the protagonist just as fast as it healed him. 28800 hp of damage in one day would break just about anyone.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Fast healing is priced unkindly in D&D. A use-activated item that casts mass cure light wounds on some free or common action would cost 5 * 9 * 2000 = 90 000 gp, affect 9 targets (against 4 for a vigor-based item), and heal for 1d8+9 hp (avg. 13.5) hp per use. This could, for example, be a quickrazor that casts the spell when drawn, or when used to attack. It's not quite the same as the straightforward fast healing 2 in a 20' radius, but the ring should be in that ballpark, not at 250k gp.

As comparison, a permanent item of planar bubble would cost 7 * 13 * 2000 * 1.5 = 273 000 gp (epic by default, but can be brought into nonepic territory with a little optimization), and would grant fast healing 5 when attuned to the positive energy plane, plus enhanced magic for healing spells in general, and extra temporary hp if needed (the risk of overhealing is relatively easy to mitigate). It's better than the ring, even if it's only a 10' radius (which can again be increased by some optimization) and slightly less convenient.

That doesn't mean that an entire area of fast healing should be cheap, but the hundreds of thousands of gp are a bit over the top. I'd say, price it at 100k.

[Bronk]

On the other hand, the Millennial Chainmail from the MIC offers Fast healing 3 for 8,150 gp. There are a few caveats, but it's a lot less expensive than the alternatives.

[thoroughlyS]

On the other hand, the Millennial Chainmail from the MIC offers Fast healing 3 for 8,150 gp. There are a few caveats, but it's a lot less expensive than the alternatives.
Millennial Chainmail is a relic of Corellon Larethian, which requires the weared to be at least 7th level and give up a spell slot/feat. It also only effects 1 person, and finaldooms is trying to stat out an item that grants fast healing to multiple characters. Each of the NPC in the fight would've had to have been wearing their own suit.

[Bronk]

Millennial Chainmail is a relic of Corellon Larethian, which requires the weared to be at least 7th level and give up a spell slot/feat. It also only effects 1 person, and finaldooms is trying to stat out an item that grants fast healing to multiple characters. Each of the NPC in the fight would've had to have been wearing their own suit.

One of the guidelines for magic item creation is to compare the new item with an existing similar item, that's all my example was for.

Feats, at least, can be had on an item for 10,000g, per the AEG. I don't think extra spell slots are unheard of.

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Adding epic feats to items also isn't listed as one of the indicators of an epic magic item (for some reason). The item in question could have a vigor spell paired with the 'permanent emanation' feat for a lesser cost as well.

***

If all else fails, just designate it as a minor artifact.

[Mordaedil]

Would probably be wiser to have it be an item that contingently casts the spell at the beginning of combat involving more than 8(+X per size of the player's party size above 4) people.

It would be far cheaper then as you could juggle the cost based on the condition limits you put on the item. It also prevents the item from healing the players outside of fights and if they try to cheat the system by attacking eachother, the ring doesn't trigger because they are too few.

And NPC's would probably react to suggestions they fight with astoundment.