Why do people love casting polymorph on allies?

[MrFahrenheit]

Like the title says. If someone in the group I DM for casts polymorph on one of the BSFs, I'd have a frickin' field day with it. "While your physical stats mirror that of the T. rex, so do your mental ones. You don't see friends. You see food."

[Strill]

The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality

So to your comment, no. They don't see food.

[Ferrin33]

Like the title says. If someone in the group I DM for casts polymorph on one of the BSFs, I'd have a frickin' field day with it. "While your physical stats mirror that of the T. rex, so do your mental ones. You don't see friends. You see food."

"It retains its alignment and personality." is a pretty important part, and I'd hate to play under a DM who forced you to do that.

A better way would be to play in on the low Int by inferior tactics; Not going for the squishy caster in the back, but to the enemy underneath them that's shouting a lot, or leaving his allies behind to go chase an enemy he was fighting but is now running away. Maybe have the player roll for the desired action, and you explain how it could go wrong if he fails that roll and what action is taken instead.

[Unoriginal]

Are you sure people who say they cast it on their allies weren't talking about True Polymorph?

[Phoenix042]

Never decide the actions of your players' characters for them.

That is bad DMing. That is very bad DMing.

You only decide those actions in the case of magic that specifically COMPELS the character in question to act a certain way, and then you only enforce the actions they're required to take as part of the spell. Don't invent extra compulsions where there are none, and don't become the adversary of your players. Everyone at your table is responsible for everyone having fun.

When enemies charm my players or use similar effects, I describe the sensation and challenge my players to roleplay the change in personality. It's more fun for everyone when you're all working together to tell a story, instead of this "DM vs Players" dumbness that so many people subscribe to.

[Sir cryosin]

As a DM and player the way I see polymorph is. You're turning a party member into your pet dog. Your dog knows and understands you but they can easily be distracted can be very protective they can understand something that is attacking you as your foe. You're not transform me somebody into a wild animal that has no contact with civilization or higher intelligent beings. You're turning somebody into a domesticated animal. They'll understand between friend and foe but they won't understand why. In a fight they should be attacking anybody that attacks them or anybody who attacks their friend. If they get transform into a more predatorial animal if the bad guys are running away then they should give chase after them.

[Wagadodo]

The polymorphed person should role-play their intelligence. So they don't see allies as food, more as family, they will go after the closest enemy, or it might be case the thing that hurt it the most. In other words don't make tactical decisions make instinct decisions. They couldn't follow the orders of the teammates either because their intelligence might be low enough they no longer understand what is being said to them.

[Tanarii]

Like the title says. If someone in the group I DM for casts polymorph on one of the BSFs, I'd have a frickin' field day with it. "While your physical stats mirror that of the T. rex, so do your mental ones. You don't see friends. You see food."
No clue. Turning your PC into an NPC under DM control always seemed counter-productive to me too.

[some guy]

Like the title says. If someone in the group I DM for casts polymorph on one of the BSFs, I'd have a frickin' field day with it. "While your physical stats mirror that of the T. rex, so do your mental ones. You don't see friends. You see food."

At the level a pc gains Polymorph, it can also change it's allies into a Giant Ape (if they're lvl 7). A giant ape has Int 7. I have a barbarian who'se intelligence would be improved by polymorph. And even then, like the others have said, the pc retains it's personality.

[Toadkiller]

A DM I played with recently made it fun by:

-moderately "enforcing", by suggestion, that the character's intelligence was reduced

-still allowing the player to interact with the scenario in fun ways

-promoting a sense of danger for the rest of the party "it's a giant ape, don't do anything to provoke or confuse it". Supported the "target" player in role playing some menance.

Overall it made polymorph a fun and memorable spell while having enough limitations that it was only used on special occasions.

[Mellack]

A DM I played with recently made it fun by:

-moderately "enforcing", by suggestion, that the character's intelligence was reduced

-still allowing the player to interact with the scenario in fun ways

-promoting a sense of danger for the rest of the party "it's a giant ape, don't do anything to provoke or confuse it". Supported the "target" player in role playing some menance.

Overall it made polymorph a fun and memorable spell while having enough limitations that it was only used on special occasions.

I am glad you had fun with it, but that giant ape probably only had one less point of INT than some party member. Unless you normally have PC's easily confused.

[MrFahrenheit]

The polymorphed person should role-play their intelligence. So they don't see allies as food, more as family, they will go after the closest enemy, or it might be case the thing that hurt it the most. In other words don't make tactical decisions make instinct decisions. They couldn't follow the orders of the teammates either because their intelligence might be low enough they no longer understand what is being said to them.

Wouldn't that be animal dependent though? The more solitary creatures would be at best like a lion in the zoo: "these guys feed me. But if they haven't in a while, I won't hesitate to eat them."

I do like the stupidity aspect, I.e., stopping to eat your downed opponent instead of moving into the next enemy.

[Malifice]

Never decide the actions of your players' characters for them.

That is bad DMing. That is very bad DMing.



Agreed, but dont play the Int 1 Giant scorpion you just turned into as any smarter than an Int 1 Giant scorpion.

Otherwise 'Bad DMing' rule goes out the window, trumping bad player behavior.

When I get polymorphed into a giant Ape, APE SMASH. Im not counting squares on the map, Im not thinking of the optimal tactics, Im running forward and smashing.

I trust my players to do the same. But when they blatantly don't, I reserve the right to come over the top.

[Gignere]

Agreed, but dont play the Int 1 Giant scorpion you just turned into as any smarter than an Int 1 Giant scorpion.

Otherwise 'Bad DMing' rule goes out the window, trumping bad player behavior.

When I get polymorphed into a giant Ape, APE SMASH. Im not counting squares on the map, Im not thinking of the optimal tactics, Im running forward and smashing.

I trust my players to do the same. But when they blatantly don't, I reserve the right to come over the top.

Giant Ape is a bad example because it is actually intelligent. In fact it is smarter than a few tanks I rolled up in the past.

[Toadkiller]

Well, INT 8 in our games is barely functionally intelligent. Less than that is not allowed.

[Malifice]

Giant Ape is a bad example because it is actually intelligent. In fact it is smarter than a few tanks I rolled up in the past.

Yeah but you're still an Ape. A Lawful good Ape perhaps...

Hang on, who am I kidding. This is a PC. A CN Ape.

[Mellack]

Well, INT 8 in our games is barely functionally intelligent. Less than that is not allowed.

So if 8 is barely functional, what does that make Quasits, Orcs and Lizardfolk? They all have a 7, same as the giant ape. Orcs and lizardfolk have whole societies. They all speak languages (some more than one).
Now while the basic rules only allow players to have a stat as low as 8, I would say that just is the slower end of average.

[some guy]

Now while the basic rules only allow players to have a stat as low as 8, I would say that just is the slower end of average.

The basic rules allow for both rolling 4d6b3 and a standard array:

You generate your character’s six ability scores randomly. Roll four 6-sided dice and record the total of the highest three dice on a piece of scratch paper. Do this fve more times, so that you have six numbers. If you want to save time or don’t like the idea of randomly determining ability scores, you can use the following scores instead: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.
So, even in the basic rules 3 Intelligence should be functional enough to be a pc.
But, yeah, 8 Int is just below average. Not bad at all.

[Malifice]

So if 8 is barely functional, what does that make Quasits, Orcs and Lizardfolk? They all have a 7, same as the giant ape. Orcs and lizardfolk have whole societies. They all speak languages (some more than one).
Now while the basic rules only allow players to have a stat as low as 8, I would say that just is the slower end of average.

Apes can speak (well sign) language.

[tkuremento]

The basic rules allow for both rolling 4d6b3 and a standard array:

So, even in the basic rules 3 Intelligence should be functional enough to be a pc.
But, yeah, 8 Int is just below average. Not bad at all.

Couldn't you then be an Orc with 1 Int? Saying you roll all 1s for a 3 and then the -2 from being an Orc.

[some guy]

Couldn't you then be an Orc with 1 Int? Saying you roll all 1s for a 3 and then the -2 from being an Orc.

Oh, yeah. I forgot about some of the Volo's races getting penalties.

[Specter]

Couldn't you then be an Orc with 1 Int? Saying you roll all 1s for a 3 and then the -2 from being an Orc.

And by RAW, these INT 1 characters would be able to speak and understand languages. More than one!

What a time to be alive.

[Coidzor]

Well, INT 8 in our games is barely functionally intelligent. Less than that is not allowed.

Then your group has houseruled intelligence into something that it normally is not and that goes against established precedent and tradition dating back to Gygax.


Otherwise 'Bad DMing' rule goes out the window, trumping bad player behavior.

No, bad player behavior means the DM needs to take action, but the DM taking action should not itself be bad player behavior, otherwise you're just in a death spiral of rudeness and boorishness.


When I get polymorphed into a giant Ape, APE SMASH. Im not counting squares on the map, Im not thinking of the optimal tactics, Im running forward and smashing.

So you get to break the rules by moving too far in one turn?

Or do you keep trying to do things and bog the game down by having the DM say, "no, you can't move to that square. No you can't move to that square either," and so on, until you finally find a square that you can move to?

[Malifice]

bad player behavior means the DM needs to take action, but the DM taking action should not itself be bad player behavior, otherwise you're just in a death spiral of rudeness and boorishness.

Watch me.


So you get to break the rules by moving too far in one turn?

No I move my miniature the max distance towards the enemy. Im not counting out squares, or assuming the 'tactically optimal' course of action. I SMASH.


Or do you keep trying to do things and bog the game down by having the DM say, "no, you can't move to that square. No you can't move to that square either," and so on, until you finally find a square that you can move to?

IMG players get around 2-3 seconds to declare what they are doing or else they take the dodge action and their turn ends. As a general rule.

[Coidzor]

Watch me.

Charming. Well, at least you're honest about it, I suppose.


No I move my miniature the max distance towards the enemy. Im not counting out squares, or assuming the 'tactically optimal' course of action. I SMASH.

Then you as a player have to know how many squares you are moving in order to move them. Otherwise you'd move the wrong number of squares at least a fair amount of the time because you're not allowed to actually look at the board and use your human brain, but instead, as a player at the table, are being expected to RP OOC as a dumb animal instead of just RPing the character as a dumb animal but retaining one's faculties as a player and thus being capable of knowing how many squares one is moving one's character.


IMG players get around 2-3 seconds to declare what they are doing or else they take the dodge action and their turn ends. As a general rule.

So you're saying that they have to count out the squares but if they leave you with the impression that they counted out their move in advance in their heads so that they could know how far their character could move, you'll basically flip the table on them.

How Kafkaesque, if things actually play out as you claim. I suspect that the way events play out is not quite as draconian as you've attempted to lay out.

[Malifice]

[QUOTE=Coidzor;21822939]Charming.


Then you as a player have to know how many squares you are moving in order to move them. Otherwise you'd move the wrong number of squares at least a fair amount of the time because you're not allowed to actually look at the board and use your human brain, but instead, as a player at the table, are being expected to RP OOC as a dumb animal instead of just RPing the character as a dumb animal but retaining one's faculties as a player and thus being capable of knowing how many squares one is moving one's character.

Count them as you move them (let me clairify). None of this measuring crap though. Or thinking nonsense.

Example:

Me: Righteo Dan, youve just been polymorphed into a Giant Ape. What do you do?
Dan: Charge the nearest Orc and pound him into oblivion.
Me: Which one?
Dan: Is there a female Orc?
Me: Yes.
Dan. That one. In fact I'll grab her and and climb up the tower.
Me: Have inspiration. Roll your attack.


How Kafkaesque, if things actually play out as you claim. I suspect that the way events play out is not quite as draconian as you've attempted to lay out.

Nope, thats pretty much how I roll. If you're lucky I'll give you a count down from 3.

Sometimes I'll give the PCs a little time to have a think (I'll make a coffee when they're in dire straights giving them some time to plan). But generally, I like my combats to be fast and furious. Plans get shouted out in game at the table, with no more than a few words or a short sentence. Take longer and your turn ends and you take the dodge action.

I may occasionally pause to look something up.

Monsters follow the same rules. I play them as their Int and Wis (and experience and alignment etc) dictates.

[Rhedyn]

Like the title says. If someone in the group I DM for casts polymorph on one of the BSFs, I'd have a frickin' field day with it. "While your physical stats mirror that of the T. rex, so do your mental ones. You don't see friends. You see food."

Well see those playing D&D would want to cast polymorph on allies. Meanwhile your group is playing "I make up rules to be mean to you!"

Mental stats do not effect the actions your players can take, there is no roleplaying stats. Stats are mechanical abstractions and effect your actions as they are specified in doing so within the rules.