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schreier
2017-03-18, 09:35 AM
This would really only come up in a very high campaign, or in a gestalt build, but I am a little confused by the phrasing on the Cleric Spell Access class feature.

It says:
"A 10th level rainbow servant can learn and cast spells from the cleric list, even if they don't appear on the lists of any spellcasting class he has. Such spells are cast as divine spells if they don't appear on the sorcerer/wizard or bard spell lists ...."

If you had a beguiler / wizard / rainbow servant - would both beguiler and wizard gain the spells? It does say "any spellcasting class he has ..." which definitely implies the possibility of multiple spellcasting classes, and seems to grant it to both?

This "multiple spellcasting classes" point is also supported by the "Spells per Day/Spells Known" section - which, granted uses standard phrasing. It says:

"If a character had more than one spellcasting class in which she could cast 3rd-level arcane spells before she became a rainbow servant, the player must decide which class to assign each level of rainbow servant for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known."

It says that the caster would need to be able to cast level 3 arcane spells from the class for it to qualify for the increased caster level, so that would probably apply to the "cleric spell access" ability too?

So a gestalt:
Wizard 5 / Beguiler 5
Incantatrix 10 / Rainbow Servant 10

Would be a level 15 Wizard caster, level 11 Beguiler caster, and have cleric spells on both class lists? (obviously, would need to scribe into spellbook to cast as a wizard, but could scribe a scroll from the beguiler side then scribe into a spellbook?) That is taking the 6/10 spell progression, instead of the 10/10 text over table interpretation (based on the FAQ ruling, and the fact that the non-spellcasting levels grant abilities so it makes sense)

frogglesmash
2017-03-18, 02:05 PM
I'm pretty sure you would just have the spells added to the class you choose to have Rainbow Servant advance. I don't have access to my books at the moment, so I can't find the RAW to back that up

Dagroth
2017-03-18, 02:33 PM
This would really only come up in a very high campaign, or in a gestalt build, but I am a little confused by the phrasing on the Cleric Spell Access class feature.

It says:
"A 10th level rainbow servant can learn and cast spells from the cleric list, even if they don't appear on the lists of any spellcasting class he has. Such spells are cast as divine spells if they don't appear on the sorcerer/wizard or bard spell lists ...."

If you had a beguiler / wizard / rainbow servant - would both beguiler and wizard gain the spells? It does say "any spellcasting class he has ..." which definitely implies the possibility of multiple spellcasting classes, and seems to grant it to both?


The point of this text is that if there is a Cleric Spell that does appear on your Wizard's spell list, you still cast it as a Wizard (or Beguiler, or whatever other caster you are). If there is a Cleric Spell that is also a Bard spell (or Wizard spell) but you don't have any Bard levels, you can still cast it... but it remains an Arcane spell for you.

It does not add any casting ability to other classes, just to the one you chose it to add to.

Technically, in your build you could choose it to add to Wizard despite having all the other levels raise your Beguiler casting... but that is sub-optimal since you'd have to go scroll collecting for every spell.

If you can swing Ultimate Magus 5/Beguiler 5 for your last 5 levels... then you'll be okay. If you have to go Ultimate Magus 5/(some non-caster 5), even that's okay because you end up with 18/16 casting.

You could even try going Wizard 1, (something 3), Wizard 1, (something 1)/Ultimate Magus 5 since those two levels wouldn't increase your Wizard casting from UM.

schreier
2017-03-18, 07:11 PM
Sadly, Gestalt doesn't allow the "two-class advancing" type prestige classes.

That being said - it is interesting that you might be able to select the class that gains the "cleric" access. I always wondered, since you could pick each level as a different arcane spellcasting class (conceivably). Similar issue in the other direction with the Incantatrix, which has a banned school - as far as I can tell, applying the rulings for specialization within the base wizard class, the school is only limited for that class (i.e. an beguiler/wizard incantatrix would not lose beguiler access to the school)

Dagroth
2017-03-19, 04:24 AM
Sadly, Gestalt doesn't allow the "two-class advancing" type prestige classes.

That being said - it is interesting that you might be able to select the class that gains the "cleric" access. I always wondered, since you could pick each level as a different arcane spellcasting class (conceivably). Similar issue in the other direction with the Incantatrix, which has a banned school - as far as I can tell, applying the rulings for specialization within the base wizard class, the school is only limited for that class (i.e. an beguiler/wizard incantatrix would not lose beguiler access to the school)

You are correct, the banned school would not affect your other spellcasting classes.

Could you level up Beguiler on the Wizard side on the levels that Rainbow Servant doesn't increase your caster level? Or at least on 2 of those levels?

Your last 5 levels, assuming Good Alignment, should be Sacred Exorcist on the Beguiler side.

Lawful Neutral and you could go Church Inquisitor for some nice immunities.

Abjurant Champion could fill out the rest of the levels on the Wizard side. Paragnostic Apostle would work too, and gives a better bonus for defensive spells.

ksbsnowowl
2017-03-19, 10:42 AM
Could you level up Beguiler on the Wizard side on the levels that Rainbow Servant doesn't increase your caster level? Or at least on 2 of those levels?

Text trumps table. Rainbow Servant gives full spellcasting.

schreier
2017-03-19, 12:49 PM
Text trumps table. Rainbow Servant gives full spellcasting.

I know that's the standard rule ... the 3.5 FAQ, which is not official, says this though:

Does the rainbow servant (CD 54) and sacred fist (CD 59) gain spellcasting levels for every level of the class or just levels shown on their table?
In the Sage’s opinion, these classes gain spellcasting as their tables indicate. Normally, if there is a difference between what a table says and what the ability indicates in its written explanation, we suggest you use the written rules. This exception, however, maintains a good game balance for these classes within the larger game.


Obviously, it's just a suggestion and is not official ... but we decided to follow the Sage's written answer on the FAQ
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20070731a