Worlds friendliest adventurer or party troublemaker?

[Calibus]

Now, I don't often make RP characters (Because I love gooooold) I just felt like I wanted to add to my groups general ideals of: "Is it bad? Assume it is, kill it." Also I just really wanted to make a character that the GM can for all intents and purposes take advantage of.

Here's my characters rundown:
Finnegan, or Fin, is a Ranger/Life Cleric who is an overly friendly and overly compassionate individual who lacks any ability to see evil in others. He believes that every living being is good in nature and would rather only use violence if his friends are in danger. Now, you see, my character has a tendency to go well out of his way to make sure he is polite. This means, asking permission politely (and clearly) before entering any monster den or lair, making his stealth rolls pretty much useless. See, As long as I've played this character, no one in game has ever had the idea of talking to Fin about what he's doing is endangering his FRIENDS. But they do infact leave Fin completely out of the in-character planning process as his ideas mostly involve offering the BB some tea, or "Talking things out" "Maybe he's just angry and needs someone to talk to" Which in hilarious fashion one time worked (But that was a whole other game in which I used him)
But because they leave him entirely out of the circle of planning, the astute GMs always take advantage of his nature. of which is the unhealthy nature of his character. He completely believes everyone is good and is truthful. Which rules out most of the purpose of insight.

Now, as both DMs and Fellow players, How do you think Finnegan respond to being left out of everything and told steps of the plan where they are to be made even against his own beliefs? IE Ambush cult members and kill/hurt them without warning.

[Mellack]

As a fellow player, Fin would not be invited onto any ambush, probably not on any adventure at all. I would ask him to stay at camp. Adventuring is dangerous enough without someone activly making it worse.

[Calibus]

Being the only healer and the effectively the most utilizable member of the party for tracking, supplying, and he's been known to be the fiercest combatant when his allies are endangered? (I say that as he's combat optimized. And his healing is surprisingly effective outside combat too. He has many benefits outside his cons.

And with good rolls to boot he already has 20 dex and 16 wisdom

[Mortis_Elrod]

While i like the intention of making a roleplaying character instead of a rollplaying character, i think Finnegan needs to answer some questions about himself. Namely "Why am I adventuring?". Finnegan seems more like a character that devotes his life to helping out a small village or maybe an entire forest. Something like the ever helpful local priest who sees the good in all and always offers redemption, not an adventurer. Because honestly, adventuring is a good chunk about just killing things to get your way. We try to avoid it being JUST about that, but sometimes 'for the good of the party' goes above everything else.

[Calibus]

While i like the intention of making a roleplaying character instead of a rollplaying character, i think Finnegan needs to answer some questions about himself. Namely "Why am I adventuring?". Finnegan seems more like a character that devotes his life to helping out a small village or maybe an entire forest. Something like the ever helpful local priest who sees the good in all and always offers redemption, not an adventurer. Because honestly, adventuring is a good chunk about just killing things to get your way. We try to avoid it being JUST about that, but sometimes 'for the good of the party' goes above everything else.

Yesssss finally someone gets the whole "why is he adventuring" bit. Fin wants to help others and he has made oath to a cause. But that's because he can't reject and act of goodness for a whole. He will stop others from doing terrible things because he feels that they are forced to do them and he just wants them to see that there's goodness in them that they also can be loved regardless of their actions.

It's not about a town for Finnegan. It's his lack of seeing evil in others and seeing only their goodness.

He's totally gonna die but it's gonna be a sad sad day for everyone.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Yesssss finally someone gets the whole "why is he adventuring" bit. Fin wants to help others and he has made oath to a cause. But that's because he can't reject and act of goodness for a whole. He will stop others from doing terrible things because he feels that they are forced to do them and he just wants them to see that there's goodness in them that they also can be loved regardless of their actions.

It's not about a town for Finnegan. It's his lack of seeing evil in others and seeing only their goodness.

He's totally gonna die but it's gonna be a sad sad day for everyone.

Ok So i like this but i doesn't really answer why he is adventuring. Helping others is great, but thats not what adventurers do. Don't get me wrong they CAN help others, but they aren't super heroes. Unless thats the style your group is going for anyway. In my eyes most adventuring parties are actually pretty selfish, and will rarely go out to help others unless it benefits them. That's not to mean they are bad, usually these guys are quite good, just most of that goodness is directed towards their inner circle, and it is a rare honor if an outsider like an npc is liked enough for them to risk their lives to save for no other benefit.
Again this is just adventuring in my eyes, and how I've seen it done most of the time. Yours and your group could have it completely different.

So tell me, whats calling him out to explore the world? Just helping people? Helping everyone is very naive, but that's okay if thats who you want to play. Just trying to help you with in-character logic.

[Mellack]

Being the only healer and the effectively the most utilizable member of the party for tracking, supplying, and he's been known to be the fiercest combatant when his allies are endangered? (I say that as he's combat optimized. And his healing is surprisingly effective outside combat too. He has many benefits outside his cons.

And with good rolls to boot he already has 20 dex and 16 wisdom

Yes, even with that. If he causes a combat that could of been avoided by stealth, that healing he gave was not needed. I said leave him at camp for the use of healing outside combat. I personally find such a character disruptive to the game, as it seems in conflict with the rest of the group.

[Tanarii]

I'd find this character disruptive period. It's one thing to stay out of things while the rest of the party executes a plan. It's another to actively sabotage the plans.

This character is another version of the 'I will not slay an unready creature, and neither will you' Knight, or the 'my way or the high way' Lawful Stupid Paladin, the the 'no killing for anyone' pacifist.

[BurgerBeast]

This character gets cut in session zero, or as soon as it becomes clear what he's about. I don't think you're being disrespectful on purpose, but you're being disrespectful.

If I'm the DM, I help you fix it, and if you can't understand or you refuse, I give you the boot. No hard feelings but this game is not for Fin. None of the games I run are for Fin. Ever. If I'm a player at the table, I finish the session, and leave the group, explaining myself to the DM and apologizing if necessary.

It's almost fate that you'd start this thread while the Roleplaying Rules thread is still lingering... lol.

[Sigreid]

Honestly, this is a character that begs to be murdered in his sleep for the greater good. I don't have a problem with good natured characters, but he's actively putting the rest of the party in unnecessary danger, basically because he's a moron.

[StorytellerHero]

Here's my characters rundown:
Finnegan, or Fin, is a Ranger/Life Cleric who is an overly friendly and overly compassionate individual who lacks any ability to see evil in others. He believes that every living being is good in nature and would rather only use violence if his friends are in danger. Now, you see, my character has a tendency to go well out of his way to make sure he is polite. This means, asking permission politely (and clearly) before entering any monster den or lair, making his stealth rolls pretty much useless. See, As long as I've played this character, no one in game has ever had the idea of talking to Fin about what he's doing is endangering his FRIENDS. But they do infact leave Fin completely out of the in-character planning process as his ideas mostly involve offering the BB some tea, or "Talking things out" "Maybe he's just angry and needs someone to talk to" Which in hilarious fashion one time worked (But that was a whole other game in which I used him)
But because they leave him entirely out of the circle of planning, the astute GMs always take advantage of his nature. of which is the unhealthy nature of his character. He completely believes everyone is good and is truthful. Which rules out most of the purpose of insight.

Now, as both DMs and Fellow players, How do you think Finnegan respond to being left out of everything and told steps of the plan where they are to be made even against his own beliefs? IE Ambush cult members and kill/hurt them without warning.


That's a character concept, but it's not a player character concept. Without conflict, a story can't be a good story. If the only conflict that your character is capable of is conflict with the other members of the party or the purpose of the party itself, then that can never be a PC. Nobody would keep such a person on the team when the team's goals or needs are contradictory to the person's beliefs.

If I were the DM, I'd say go make a new character background, because the one presented here is not made for playing DnD in an actual group.

[Slipperychicken]

I've played characters a little bit like this. I made it work by having the PC recognize that there are times when talking and politeness are not the answer. Also recognizing the value of the lives at risk, and wanting to avoid destruction of life when that is a reasonable option. But he still used his words when he could, and spoke often of the value of human life, and how it shouldn't be destroyed needlessly.

Basically, try 'talking it out' with sentient creatures that are not guaranteed to betray you. Don't put your party in extra danger to do it, and don't walk into situations you know are traps. Don't screw the party's plans over it, instead bring it up as an option during planning.


That's a character concept, but it's not a player character concept. Without conflict, a story can't be a good story. If the only conflict that your character is capable of is conflict with the other members of the party or the purpose of the party itself, then that can never be a PC. Nobody would keep such a person on the team when the team's goals or needs are contradictory to the person's beliefs.

Trying to talk through problems does not end all conflict. If it did, then the world would be a much nicer place than it is today. There are loads of conflicts that can result when the baddies are not willing or able to negotiate, are not trusting of the PCs, are under orders that they can't refuse, feel that they're in a position of power and don't need to negotiate (and can instead just take what they want), feel they're in a fight for their very existence, if most of the avenues of negotiation have already failed before the PCs got involved, and so on. Talking is just one way to try and solve conflicts, and usually by the time peoples' swords are drawn, at least some of the belligerents have dismissed that idea.

If anything, that can create more kinds of conflict between longing for peaceful resolution and a reality that makes it very difficult if not impossible. I've seen that play out in real games, and it's easy to make a tragic and interesting character moment out of feeling forced to destroy people who you never wanted to fight.

[RickAllison]

I have a potential Druid who is a pacifist medic in what was potentially a party of evil/Neutral pirates. He actively adventures with the party and doesn't disrupt their plans because he realizes that if he does, they will just exclude him from the plans and he will not be helping anyone. Instead he helps them and patches up the wounded on both sides afterward. If he saves even a tenth of the party's victims, he has made a difference in the world. And in the meantime, he binds people up as octopi and such to disable without injury.

Every character needs to have a reason why they stick with the party and their activities. So if you want to use this character in a party that is very aggressive and lethal, you need to find a reason why he would work with them despite their difference of opinions.

[Consensus]

Now, as both DMs and Fellow players, How do you think Finnegan respond to being left out of everything and told steps of the plan where they are to be made even against his own beliefs? IE Ambush cult members and kill/hurt them without warning.

Have him reassess his beliefs and swing in totally the opposite direction, it would be interesting at least. Or just have him reassess his beliefs, that character does sound annoying to play with in a party.

[Sigreid]

I've played characters a little bit like this. I made it work by having the PC recognize that there are times when talking and politeness are not the answer. Also recognizing the value of the lives at risk, and wanting to avoid destruction of life when that is a reasonable option. But he still used his words when he could, and spoke often of the value of human life, and how it shouldn't be destroyed needlessly.



This is very different than what was described and would work fine as a conscience of the party. What was described was essentially the party's very own suicide bomber bent on taking his friends with him.

[StorytellerHero]

Trying to talk through problems does not end all conflict. If it did, then the world would be a much nicer place than it is today. There are loads of conflicts that can result when the baddies are not willing or able to negotiate, are not trusting of the PCs, are under orders that they can't refuse, feel that they're in a position of power and don't need to negotiate (and can instead just take what they want), feel they're in a fight for their very existence, if most of the avenues of negotiation have already failed before the PCs got involved, and so on. Talking is just one way to try and solve conflicts, and usually by the time peoples' swords are drawn, at least some of the belligerents have dismissed that idea.

If anything, that can create more kinds of conflict between longing for peaceful resolution and a reality that makes it very difficult if not impossible. I've seen that play out in real games, and it's easy to make a tragic and interesting character moment out of feeling forced to destroy people who you never wanted to fight.

I don't disagree with what you present here, and it wouldn't be a problem if the character presented by the OP was simply a character that attempted to peacefully mediate conflicts when possible.

In this case however, according to the OP, the character is ALSO unable to recognize by common sense when mediating is impossible, and when attempts to do so are simply reckless and dangerous, not only to self but also the rest of the party. Such a character would never be allowed to stay in a party of adventurers because they would be too much of a risk to keep in the group.

[Calibus]

Okay, so I see where people are getting at with him. And I completely understand that he is a pretty disruptive character. So I'm gonna tone it down a fair margin. He'll have more of an understanding of greater good scenarios. A more tame version of his original. I still have his original Bio if anyone wants a read I'll spoiler it.

But for the most part, I'm gonna lay low on the Politeness to all things, and have more of a politeness to those who he is helping than a Politeness to absolutely everything. So it's less disruptive and more in character. He will maintain a Protective nature to innocents, in the proper sense rather than the overly naive sense that everything is innocent. He'll still be naive but not so much to endanger the party too startlingly.

Note on the Spoiler, Fin was Donjon'd and brought into another campaign entirely. Same group for the most part. Just a different GM for the Sessions. We take turns over periods when campaigns require work.
Finnegan Fairchild. known well as the guidesman of the lost wood, he would escort many a man through the woods he had called home, A simple cottage with the bare neccessities. He would then soon come across a group of adventurers who had encountered a terrible ambush by some steely goblins who wished the adventurers no good. With his trusty bow, his arrows flew rightous and true, striking the n'er do wells running home. A pang of guilt did go through Fins mind, as it wasn't too often he had to fend of such creatures. But He meant much good for it all. It's just how some things worked at times. Fin agreed to take the adventurers to a nearby town that they were heading towards, the roads were pretty straight forward and by no means safe. There he discovered that someone was taken by the goblins, a terrible fate could happen to an innocent! With steeled determination, Fin only wished that his reward be the very deed he set off to do. Good deeds pay for themselves, afterall.

Danger! Intrigue! What was all this? They had encountered a foe whom his compatriots had chased away from their home. Again, Fin felt guilt. But he felt no shame. These goblins had taken a life, one that could have been saved if he was only given a chance to talk, but others thought otherwise. It was then, amoungst his belongings he held a holy symbol gifted to him by a Priest of Helm, a servant of the god of protection. Pressing his hand to the dying mans final throughs Fin Pleaded to Spare the Mans life, and so Divine energy flowed through him. Guiding the mans soul back to it's origin. There he further discovered a plot laid out behind the shadows. A Lost mine? And the crates seemed familiar to Fin... What would goblins and bugbears need that for? All this was in Fin's neck of the woods, so he would escort his injured friend back home and return the goods to where they belonged.

Upon arriving back, it was a long day. Fin had met new companions, and stalwart allies. He had taken a liking these folk, they seemed dependable and trustworthy. But soon things would change, the man whom Fin saved was in search of a man. A Wizard whom he had lost contact with. Fin jumped upon the request right away, Of course it was easy to say yes. Helping others is the best reward for any well meaning person. But Before all that, some very rude and very obstinate folk seemed to be bothering the town. There was no way Fin would leave the town under such terrorizing troublemakers. He would take care of them quickly first.

Upon stumbling upon the lair of the brigands, Fin and his companions, delved into more mysteries, and soon found the leader of the bunch. A wizard. Although he was preoccupied, His companions took him off guard and he was swiftly taken care of. A sudden demise. No chance at self-defence. But It was for the best, the man seemed to be the root of the problem. A wizard was hard to deal with when they were wary, and this was the easiest solution. Finding a letter and some Bugbears in the lair seemed to link everything to another person all together, but this were cut short for Fin. What appeared to be a simple card game became a terrible fate. He would be seperated from his once close friends, and thrusted elsewhere.

Swamp, everywhere. Wet and muddy, Fin had no idea where he had been sent. Naked as the day he was born. He had found the corpse of a young man. Dark brown hair, and his body swollen from the bog. Fin checked the mans belongings, a Fair sum of gold, and a spare clothes remained upon the lost soul. The mans Studded leather armor remained mostly unharmed and a simple Hunting bow lay upon the ground as he searched for any indication of civilization. Food was prosperous and game was plenty. Fin found a place to set a camp and keep warm, but something was not right with this place and it was nearly time for Fin to leave.

[Sigreid]

Okay, so I see where people are getting at with him. And I completely understand that he is a pretty disruptive character. So I'm gonna tone it down a fair margin. He'll have more of an understanding of greater good scenarios. A more tame version of his original. I still have his original Bio if anyone wants a read I'll spoiler it.

But for the most part, I'm gonna lay low on the Politeness to all things, and have more of a politeness to those who he is helping than a Politeness to absolutely everything. So it's less disruptive and more in character. He will maintain a Protective nature to innocents, in the proper sense rather than the overly naive sense that everything is innocent. He'll still be naive but not so much to endanger the party too startlingly.

Note on the Spoiler, Fin was Donjon'd and brought into another campaign entirely. Same group for the most part. Just a different GM for the Sessions. We take turns over periods when campaigns require work.
Finnegan Fairchild. known well as the guidesman of the lost wood, he would escort many a man through the woods he had called home, A simple cottage with the bare neccessities. He would then soon come across a group of adventurers who had encountered a terrible ambush by some steely goblins who wished the adventurers no good. With his trusty bow, his arrows flew rightous and true, striking the n'er do wells running home. A pang of guilt did go through Fins mind, as it wasn't too often he had to fend of such creatures. But He meant much good for it all. It's just how some things worked at times. Fin agreed to take the adventurers to a nearby town that they were heading towards, the roads were pretty straight forward and by no means safe. There he discovered that someone was taken by the goblins, a terrible fate could happen to an innocent! With steeled determination, Fin only wished that his reward be the very deed he set off to do. Good deeds pay for themselves, afterall.

Danger! Intrigue! What was all this? They had encountered a foe whom his compatriots had chased away from their home. Again, Fin felt guilt. But he felt no shame. These goblins had taken a life, one that could have been saved if he was only given a chance to talk, but others thought otherwise. It was then, amoungst his belongings he held a holy symbol gifted to him by a Priest of Helm, a servant of the god of protection. Pressing his hand to the dying mans final throughs Fin Pleaded to Spare the Mans life, and so Divine energy flowed through him. Guiding the mans soul back to it's origin. There he further discovered a plot laid out behind the shadows. A Lost mine? And the crates seemed familiar to Fin... What would goblins and bugbears need that for? All this was in Fin's neck of the woods, so he would escort his injured friend back home and return the goods to where they belonged.

Upon arriving back, it was a long day. Fin had met new companions, and stalwart allies. He had taken a liking these folk, they seemed dependable and trustworthy. But soon things would change, the man whom Fin saved was in search of a man. A Wizard whom he had lost contact with. Fin jumped upon the request right away, Of course it was easy to say yes. Helping others is the best reward for any well meaning person. But Before all that, some very rude and very obstinate folk seemed to be bothering the town. There was no way Fin would leave the town under such terrorizing troublemakers. He would take care of them quickly first.

Upon stumbling upon the lair of the brigands, Fin and his companions, delved into more mysteries, and soon found the leader of the bunch. A wizard. Although he was preoccupied, His companions took him off guard and he was swiftly taken care of. A sudden demise. No chance at self-defence. But It was for the best, the man seemed to be the root of the problem. A wizard was hard to deal with when they were wary, and this was the easiest solution. Finding a letter and some Bugbears in the lair seemed to link everything to another person all together, but this were cut short for Fin. What appeared to be a simple card game became a terrible fate. He would be seperated from his once close friends, and thrusted elsewhere.

Swamp, everywhere. Wet and muddy, Fin had no idea where he had been sent. Naked as the day he was born. He had found the corpse of a young man. Dark brown hair, and his body swollen from the bog. Fin checked the mans belongings, a Fair sum of gold, and a spare clothes remained upon the lost soul. The mans Studded leather armor remained mostly unharmed and a simple Hunting bow lay upon the ground as he searched for any indication of civilization. Food was prosperous and game was plenty. Fin found a place to set a camp and keep warm, but something was not right with this place and it was nearly time for Fin to leave.

This will be much better for the party. It's also fair game to try to do the friendly approach in situations where there actually is some chance that it can work. So, with friendly, neutral, and hostile but not yet aggressive creatures.