PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Sorcer Rebalance, Through Flexible Casting And Wizard Spells



Infammo
2017-03-19, 09:45 AM
Greetings everyone. I have been enjoying 5e since it came out and had the pleasure of both being a player and a DM over the turn. And through the part, I have been noticing basic aspects of the 5e sorcerer that limits them in ways that has not been present in older editions. In particular, the limited spell list and the economy of their sorcerer point conversion system. That as a result, makes them non-flexible. Because the trade is simply that bad.

As such, with the help of my fellow players, I thought up a simple alteration to the flexible casting mechanic, that gives sorcerers the stamina and flexibility we love them for. Along with giving them access to the wizard spell list, like the sorcerers of old.

FLEXIBLE CASTING
You can use your sorcery points to gain additional spell slots, or sacrifice spell slots to gain additional sorcery points. You learn other ways to use your sorcery points as you reach higher levels.

Creating Spell Slots.
You can transform expended sorcery points, as shown in the Sorcery Points column of the Sorcerer Table, into one spell slot as a bonus action on your turn. The Creating Spell Slots table shows the cost of creating a spell slot of a given level. You can create spell slots no higher in level than 5th.

Creating Spell Slots
Sorcery point Cost
1st
1
2nd
2
3rd
4
4th
5
5th
7

You can spend sorcery points up to an amount equal to your current level to create new spell slots between each long rest.

Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot's level, +1 if the slot is of 3rd level or above.


We now have a sorcerer capable of using their baseline sorcery points into spell slots in a much more useful way than before. Along with being able to convert a slot into a slightly more favorable amount of points to use for Metamagic and class features. As they would have access to the wizard spell list, they will be able to make choices such as controlling the environment, rather than merely blast.


A 10th level sorcerer encounters fights early in the day where they finds himself out of 2nd level slots. As such, they convert 3 of their sorcery points into a 2nd level slot and a 1st level slot. Giving them baseline ammunition. Later they decide they need at least one big trick for the day. So they convert their last 7 points into a 5th level slot. Leaving them with 3 total. Then, they decide they want some Metamagic options, so they convert one of their three 4th level slots into 5 sorcery points.

It was my experience observing, that sorcerers never employed their flexible casting mechanic, due to the bad economy. As a result, a sorcerer effectively had the same amount of spells as any other full range caster, but much fewer to choose from for their limited spells they can know. Making different sorcerers end up homogenized due to their spell choices being so similar. A 10th level sorcerer being able to create a 4th and 3rd spell slot from their base 10 points does not seem to break anything. Neither does the beneficial trade for 1st and 2nd level slots. Due to how these two levels are balanced in power. Also, it resurrects the idea of a sorcerer knowing fewer spells, but being able to cast them more often.

As doing either of these things leaves you with a sorcerer that either has to trade other slots for Metamagic, or can fire lots of low level spells, of which they will likely not know many total, and then has to trade high level slots for points, testing has left it feeling like a reasonable balance choice.

One of the inspirations for this redesign was a line in the sorcerer description from the players handbook:
Whatever their goals, sorcerers are every bit as useful to an adventuring party as wizards, making up for a comparative lack of breadth in their magical knowledge with enormous flexibility in using the spells they know.

As one does, I would deeply treasure your insight and thoughts upon this endeavor.

EDIT: One-way conversion clauses removed, in favour for a max amount of points spent on new spell slots, equal to your level.

LeonBH
2017-03-19, 02:56 PM
While the motivation is good, the implementation has some issues. By preventing the spell slots created from Flexbile casting from being converted back into Sorcery Points and vice versa, you are making the player track four separate pools: (1) their regular spell slots, (2) their regular Sorcery Points, (3) their Flexible Casting spell slots, and (4) their Flexible Casting Sorcery Points.

It may not seem like much, but this extra bookkeeping can be a headache for the player. Also, narratively speaking, there's really no explanation for why you have two pools of spell slots that do the same thing -- even Warlock spell slots can be used to turn into Sorcery Points, meaning all spell slots are treated as equal in this edition. The ban on re-conversion seems to have no support in the fiction.

As an observation for Sorcerer, a high-level Sorcerer is actually quite good as-is. While the Wizard can cast three Fireballs at 5th level, the Sorcerer can cast nine if they cannibalize all their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level slots. That said, it's inefficient overall and very quickly drains their resources. However, Wild Magic Sorcerers would love this use as it lets them consume more spell slots, increasing the chances for a Wild Magic roll.

A fix I often see used (and one I implement myself) is to have the Sorcerer cast using Spell Points (DMG 288). This gives them Flexible Casting by default, without needing to lose slots for it. It also means Sorcery Points will now be used only for Metamagic, and any conversion from spell points to sorcery points will be purely for this reason alone.

That said, if you would rather homebrew Flexible Casting, I'd advise you to try and match what Spell Points can do, because they can do a really good job of fixing this class.

Infammo
2017-03-19, 04:11 PM
Thank you for the feedback!

In this particular case. Preventing re-conversion was strictly necessary. As altering the economy in this way has a few effects that could be broken otherwise. Note how all spells of 3 and above grant one more sorcery points in comparison to standard.

It does indeed provide a small amount of extra book keeping, but it is easier than you might think. As the only part that really deserves tracking is the baseline sorc point pool. As once these have been used up for flexible casting purposes, no more spells can be created that day. A valuable commodity indeed. What you really end up tracking are 'sorc points' and 'converted points'. There is little need to track the created slots as anything other than a bonus. As if you do not use them, they disappear the next long rest.

As sorcerers are spontaneous casters, without needing preparation and a small number of spells known, this is really not that much to keep track of. Especially with how 5e is streamlined compared to other systems.

The cheaper economy means that the base sorcery point pool has a lot of potential for extra slots as you level. It is in fact so cheap that if you allowed converted points to be used for sorcerer points, things would quickly get out of hand. One-way conversion still allows that flexibility without having to deal with economy abuse. - And even with this economy, it is still just an option. The design intent here is to make it feel usable.
In comparison to vanilla, where even the wizards arcane recovery seems to be out-performing the option of flexible casting.


Considering that the Spell point variant rule you mention is in the DMG is summarised with the line: Spell points give a caster more flexibility, at the cost of greater complexity. The extra book keeping of keeping track of converted points separate from the base pool, seems rather minor in comparison to 64 spell points to track at level 10.

EDIT:
You did give me a bit of inspiration on how to remove this extra need for book-keeping. By adding a single clause to the feature, and removing the one way conversion parts.

You can spend sorcery points up to an amount equal to your current level to create new spell slots between each long rest.

Your base sorcery point pool is always equal to your level, after all.

The_Jette
2017-03-20, 04:19 PM
I can see what you're saying, and appreciate it for what it is. But, I gotta say I would never implement that in my games. The sorcerer loses versatility if you take away the ability to convert into spell points, then back into spell slots if you want. It allows a sorcerer to look at a situation and determine if he really needs that awesome 5th level spell, or if the third level fireball and two magic missiles would be more useful. But, that's just my opinion.

Infammo
2017-03-20, 05:11 PM
I can see what you're saying, and appreciate it for what it is. But, I gotta say I would never implement that in my games. The sorcerer loses versatility if you take away the ability to convert into spell points, then back into spell slots if you want. It allows a sorcerer to look at a situation and determine if he really needs that awesome 5th level spell, or if the third level fireball and two magic missiles would be more useful. But, that's just my opinion.

I actually removed the 'no reconversion' subclause yesterday. You can convert in either direction, the only limit is this line beneath the conversion table.

You can spend sorcery points up to an amount equal to your current level to create new spell slots between each long rest.

I deliberately did not limit the created slot being returned to sorcery points. This way, if you regret your choice, you can still make a spell slot later. As long as the total value of the slots created that day, does not exceed the value of your base pool. - Ergo. That 4th level you created? You want the points back. Convert, 5 points back. And later, if you want, just create a third and a first level slot. The end value of sorcery points is the same.

The_Jette
2017-03-21, 12:19 PM
I actually removed the 'no reconversion' subclause yesterday. You can convert in either direction, the only limit is this line beneath the conversion table.

You can spend sorcery points up to an amount equal to your current level to create new spell slots between each long rest.

I deliberately did not limit the created slot being returned to sorcery points. This way, if you regret your choice, you can still make a spell slot later. As long as the total value of the slots created that day, does not exceed the value of your base pool. - Ergo. That 4th level you created? You want the points back. Convert, 5 points back. And later, if you want, just create a third and a first level slot. The end value of sorcery points is the same.

Yes, I read that part. it's still essentially doing the same thing, only with a different name. And, honestly, the expanded spell list just doesn't seem worth the limitations. But, that's just how I see it. Honestly, though, unless you see a situation where a sorcerer converts all of their spells into sorcery points at the beginning of the day, then reconverts them into spell slots as the day goes by, I don't see that the ability to convert back and forth with no limit is really that big of a deal.

Infammo
2017-03-21, 05:48 PM
To put it lightly. In this position the economy means that you get one bonus sorcery point compared to the vanilla version, if you sacrifice a spell slot of 3 or higher.

All the spells except the level 5 are one point cheaper to create.

So under those conditions, no limitation on how many slots can be created in one go, can cause an amount of slots that no other caster class has ever seen.

As for the expanded spell list, it makes all the difference. The sorcerer list is extremely limited, especially for combat spells that control the battlefield, or lets you divide and conquer. Rather than just deal damage. Blasting is basically entertainment for days when you do not feel like altering reality. And when you can only learn 15 spells. You really want to have all the options you can.

Besides, this is homebrew. If you wanted to use the conversion table without the level limit, go ahead and test it.