What if the only 4 alignments were NE, LN, CN and NG? (No true neutrals).

[Particle_Man]

I mean from the highest to the lowest level.

For one thing, even animals would be different, I guess (I suppose one might go for the dodge that "unintelligent" = unaligned. Or one could just go whole hog and say there really are "good" dogs and evil chickens). ;)

For another, we lose many gods, all devils and demons (daemons are still around), many LG/CG outsiders too.

We'd lose Paladins, many alternate Paladins, and Soulborn (I know you are all broken up about that one). ;)

Clerics would only have one alignment domain, maximum.

The "great Wheel" would be down to 4 outer "aligned" planes.

Anyway, this is off the top of my head. What are your thoughts?

[noob]

No problems at all
Especially since it will get rid of the most evil alignment: true neutral(which is about reaching the balance in the multiverse by killing absolutely everything)

[Particle_Man]

I don't think most TN herbivorous animals are interested in killing absolutely everything. Well, hippos, maybe. ;)

But in a NG/LN/CN/NE world, maybe all animals would be templated creatures (celestial, fiendish, axiomatic/anarchic) but that means that they all have int 3 (at least). But then what do celestial lions eat? Other intelligence 3 creatures?

[legomaster00156]

Especially since it will get rid of the most evil alignment: true neutral(which is about reaching the balance in the multiverse by killing absolutely everything)
I... think you've ludicrously misinterpreted True Neutral... :smallconfused:

[The Viscount]

The alignments would obviously just be G, E, L, and C now since neutral is meaningless. If animals can be unaligned it raises the question of whether people can be unaligned, or if it's only things with sufficient intelligence (If so that would necessitate a re-aligning of every mindless undead).

Going by the OP you seem to be eliminating rather than re-aligning things. If so that poses a major reshuffling of the world. We've lost demons, devils, rilmani(not that anyone cares), archons, and eladrin. This is important for planar interaction since this means there's no more blood war and the 2 camps that most strongly opposed them are similarly gone. Yugoloths as the primary force of evil in the world changes things up since their two major clients are gone. You're going to see a lot more yugoloth activity on earth, and more yugoloths in existence since there are no longer any souls being tempted into the abyss or baator. Guardinals don't have much information about them that I've seen or much in the way of organization so the angels would likely have to step up to head the fight.

[Mordaedil]

Technically, you just end up with fourth edition, except not as interesting.

[Rynjin]

Congrats, you've stumbled on a way to make Alignment even more pointless than it already is.

[weckar]

I mean from the highest to the lowest level.Does this imply there is still a hierarchy of sorts? And that NE is higher than NG? :smallconfused:

[gkathellar]

You'd have a world which is completely demented.

[Telonius]

People (and creatures) would behave exactly as they have before. Some spells would stop functioning. Some people would find themselves inexplicably unable to do things they were previously able to do. The theoretical possibility of a Soulborn existing would never be mentioned again. Devils and Demons wouldn't pop out of existence, they'd just have a different tag on Detect spells.

[Particle_Man]

Does this imply there is still a hierarchy of sorts? And that NE is higher than NG? :smallconfused:

I meant that it would affect the existence of gods and planes (the highest level) as well as more terrestrial things.

[Zale]

So, interesting spin on this: Rather than retroactively always having only NE, LN, CN, and NG, one day something happened (blame Mystra) to the world such that the four alignments were divided up.

Imagine the successive apocalyptic meltdown.

Mortals are lucky, they aren't strictly bound by the four cosmic forces, so they can continue with a minimum degree of problems. Sure some of them may have lost some powers or something, but they can just keep going-

But the outsiders? The gods? Oh man are they in trouble. Plenty of them would have died as the separating cosmic forces literally ripped them apart. Everything would be crazy. Archons, Eladrin, Demons and Devils are extinct now. Literally hundreds of gods have exploded into nothingness.

The fallout would be tremendous.

My personal bet is the modrons start fighting the yugoloths for power, with the slaadi chilling back and the angels/guardinals are running emergency relief to the mortal realms.

And that's without the inevitable god-eat-god titanomachy.

[KillianHawkeye]

On one hand, I don't really think that selecting everything that isn't NG, LN, NE, or CN and Shift+Deleting it out of existence is a good idea. I guess I don't know what the purpose would be or what problems it solves, or why anyone would even want that when the existing alignments are already too broad and confusing.

On the other hand, why not go even further and go back to just two alignments? Order vs Chaos like in the original D&D. I mean, it's not like all those extra alignments were added for a reason, right? Morality, as everyone knows, is completely black and white with no room for nuance or interpretation.

[Ettina]

It would be easier to tell if someone is using undetectable alignment - as it is, detect spells can't tell them from true neutral characters.

[Particle_Man]

On one hand, I don't really think that selecting everything that isn't NG, LN, NE, or CN and Shift+Deleting it out of existence is a good idea. I guess I don't know what the purpose would be or what problems it solves, or why anyone would even want that when the existing alignments are already too broad and confusing.


If it helps, I am curious as to see what is left. I think that due to the old 5 alignment system (TN and the 4 diagonal extremes, LG, LE, CE and CG) at a time when a lot of monsters were put into play in 1st edition (and just before), most monsters are of the 4 diagonal extremes or TN). A world without them would be different and I am interested to see how it would be different.

[Particle_Man]

Ok, taking a trip through the MM for 3.5 (and wiping out races/monsters of other alignments, even if it just says "usually" or "often"). . .

Allip are still around for mid-level undead, Angels, maybe Animated Objects if I allow non-sentients (Int -, 1 or 2) as the only true neutrals, Ankheg (I think I will, it is easier), assassin vine, Azer as our first LN race, Basilisk, Belkers, Bulette, Carrion Crawlers, Celestial template (we have angels after all), Centaurs (Ng represent!), Chaos beasts, Cloakers, Cockatrice, Darkmantle, Destrachian, Devourer, Digester, Dinosaurs, Dire Animals, Giant Eagles, Drow Elf (uh-oh! But Lolth the CE goddess is gone, I think), Ettercaps, Fiendish template (there are a few fiends that are NE), Formians (I still think modrons should have been in the MM I), Frost Worm, Fungus (shieker, violet), ghost, Cloud Giant, Girallon, Githyanki, Gnome (only PHB race standing! Even humans are gone! How does it change things if the entire PC party is small?), Goblin (given class levels they can be the low-to-high level standard bad guy race), Golems, Gorgon, Grimlock, Guardinals, half-celestial, (since half-dragon doesn't have an entry for pseudo-dragon parents, but only true dragon parents (all gone) it is gone too), half-fiend, hippogriff, homunculus, Hydra, Inevitables, Kraken (I didn't know they were evil!), Kuo-toa, Lich, Magmin, Night Hag (probably the source of most of the half-fiends), Nightmare, Oozes, Giant Owls, Owlbears, Phantom Fungus, Phasm, Planetouched, Pseudodragons (might need a new name?), Purple Worm, Roc, Rust Monster, Salamanders, Satyr, Sea Cat, Shadow Mastiff, Shield Guardian, Shocker Lizard, Skeleton, Slaad, Spider Eater, Grig, Pixie, Stirge, Swarm (except Hellwasp Swarm), Titan, Treant, Triton, Vampire, Vampire Spawn, Vargouille, Winter Wolf (evil), Worg (evil), Yeth Hounds (evil, sensing a pattern here!), Zombie, most animals, most vermin.

Class-wise, if we just go with these monsters Dragon Disciple is also out (again, the pseudo-dragon exists, but it isn't written up for this prestige class).

I would have to change the Summon Monster lists to change celestial and fiendish alignments to NG and NE, or really purge those lists.


For another if we just go by the phb, we lose many gods (We still have Pelor, Garl Glittergold, Ehlonna, Wee Jas, St. Cuthbert, Olidammera, Nerull and Vecna), all devils and demons (daemons are still around), many LG/CG outsiders too. Maybe drow stop being the crazy race and become the secrets race? Or I guess they could be death cultists.

[Mechalich]

If you're eliminating whole portions of cosmic outlook - as opposed to subordinating them within a broader umbrella - your universe gets weird rather quickly. You've chosen to allow only the 'purist' alignments which are totally devoted to their outlooks. This is a world of naught but machines and madness, martyrs and murderers. It's a four player game with no alliances (in fact no real coherent communication) allowed. This is in many ways worse than just having a single good vs. evil or law vs. chaos competition, since those two sides can contain multitudes.

[Particle_Man]

This is a world of naught but machines and madness, martyrs and murderers.
Although I am against your assertion, I admire the alliteration.