Draconi Redfir
2017-03-19, 06:33 PM
So I’m in a way of the wicked game right now, and due to the rules of the game, everyone in the party was given a free leadership feat and a cohort. After levelling up however, I’m noticing some potential issues involving cohorts, and i was wondering how they worked.
For one reason or another, the leadership feat in way of the wicked seems to function slightly differently, This is a link to the Vanilla pathfinder leadership feat. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/leadership/)
And here is the "leadership feat info" we have been given by the DM.
When you take leadership you have a Base Leadership Score equal to your level plus your charisma modifier. Additionally, you have modifiers that apply to both followers, and cohorts. Since, for our purposes, the follower modifier matters very little, I've changed that a bit, and explained it below. The cohort modifier may have a bearing on your cohort, depending on what you've chosen, so we'll keep those numbers in mind when we make your cohorts. Any allies you've made up until the time you take the feat, are eligible allies. Potential Cohorts can also be found in and around town, the forest, mountains, or the savage North should you desire to travel there, and find them.
There are 6 ability scores for Organizations that can range between -5 and +10
Ruthless-the ability to get violent things done. At -5 your organization can't take violent actions.
Secrecy-the ability to conceal your organization, and its operations. At -5 your organization is a household name.
Survivability-the ability to survive adversity. At -5 your organization ceases to exist.
Connections-the ability to get non-violent tasks done. At -5 your organization can take no skilled actions.
Espionage-the ability to acquire information others don't want you to have. At -5 your organization can take no Espionage actions.
Loyalty-your minions devotion to their masters. At -5 your organization falls apart.
All scores start at 0, however, I will add your follower modifier (if any) to one score that best exemplifies your play up to the end of book 1. I treat this as a unique bonus, so if two people are competing for 1 score, I gave the bonus to the person that I felt RP'ed it in a more memorable way.
Additionally, if you have a positive Charisma modifier, you will be able to add to your scores as you see fit.
After creation, changes to Leadership score do not effect your Organization's ability scores. At level up you will gain +1 to any score you choose.
It is EXTREMELY important to note that Survivability, and Loyalty are the two scores that can destroy your organization, so make sure to keep an eye on those.
Actions per Week (slightly modified)
Base leadership score Actions/week
9 or less 1
10-12 2
13-14 3
15-16 4
17-18 5
19-20 6
21 7
22 8
23 9
24+ 10
Action Checks
1d20+appropriate score mod
Target numbers are assigned by the GM based on difficulty given the current circumstances.
Once per action check, you may say to the appropriate minion "you have failed me for the last time", kill him/her, take a -1 to your loyalty score, and re-roll your check.
The Action List
This is not an all-inclusive list, if you can think it up, you can do it, but the GM decides the appropriate check to make. Some actions will require equipment/monetary investment, and other's may gain you something as well.
Abduct Peasants (ruthless)
Assassination (ruthless) *some NPC's are immune to this action
Bribe someone (Secrecy)
Criminal Enterprise (ruthless)
Eavesdrop (Secrecy)
Frame someone (Espionage)
Gather Information (Espionage)
Grave Robbing (Secrecy)
Guard Duty (Special)
Hunt Beasts (ruthless)
Legitimate Enterprise (connections)
Spread Disinformation (Espionage)
Torture Captives (Ruthless)
Trap Building (connections)
Trap Repair (connections)
Recovery Actions
These actions require no roll and can be taken to recover your scores up to a max of 0.
Indoctrinate +1 to loyalty
Lay Low +1 to Secrecy
Recover +1 to Survivability
Training +1 to Ruthless
Introductions +1 to Connections
Get insider information +1 to Espionage
Skill Bonus Actions
As an action you may attempt to have your organization aid you in skill checks. For example, you would get a bonus to intimidate equal to your ruthless score if you attempt to intimidate with a number of your toughest minions standing behind you.
Using Cohorts
A Cohort can aid your minions, adding his/her appropriate modifier to the check you are attempting. For example you can add grumblejack's strength to a ruthless check. This will require your Cohort to be away for the duration of the job, and in some circumstances, your Cohort could die in the process.
Councils of the Wicked
You may wish to form a leadership council. A council averages scores, and combines actions into a pool. That said, a council may disagree. Any proposed action goes up for vote.
Recruiting Minions
Tell me what type of organization you'd like to create, and we'll work on putting it together. Monstrous races are permitted, though you will take penalties if attempting obviously difficult actions. For example Kobolds will not blend well into a crowd, so secrecy actions will be difficult, or possibly not allowed at all.
The problem I’m noticing is with Cohort level. Since we've all just reached level eight, and i have a -1 charisma modifier, i saw that on the vanilla leadership info feat, my cohort should be level 5, rather then the level 4 that he is now since i have a leadership score of 7. When i brought this up with my DM however, i was told to look at the way of the wicked leadership feat info, in which there is no mention of levelling up cohorts, so the DM told me that the cohorts don't level up.
i don't know about you, but that sounds like a reaaally big issue to me, eventually we're going to be level ten or higher and lugging around level four or five cohorts who can't do much of anything. my guy in particular was built to be a second front-liner to help support me in battle. how is he supposed to do that if he's level four?
Are we missing something here? surely cohorts don't just stay at the same level forever right?
For one reason or another, the leadership feat in way of the wicked seems to function slightly differently, This is a link to the Vanilla pathfinder leadership feat. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/leadership/)
And here is the "leadership feat info" we have been given by the DM.
When you take leadership you have a Base Leadership Score equal to your level plus your charisma modifier. Additionally, you have modifiers that apply to both followers, and cohorts. Since, for our purposes, the follower modifier matters very little, I've changed that a bit, and explained it below. The cohort modifier may have a bearing on your cohort, depending on what you've chosen, so we'll keep those numbers in mind when we make your cohorts. Any allies you've made up until the time you take the feat, are eligible allies. Potential Cohorts can also be found in and around town, the forest, mountains, or the savage North should you desire to travel there, and find them.
There are 6 ability scores for Organizations that can range between -5 and +10
Ruthless-the ability to get violent things done. At -5 your organization can't take violent actions.
Secrecy-the ability to conceal your organization, and its operations. At -5 your organization is a household name.
Survivability-the ability to survive adversity. At -5 your organization ceases to exist.
Connections-the ability to get non-violent tasks done. At -5 your organization can take no skilled actions.
Espionage-the ability to acquire information others don't want you to have. At -5 your organization can take no Espionage actions.
Loyalty-your minions devotion to their masters. At -5 your organization falls apart.
All scores start at 0, however, I will add your follower modifier (if any) to one score that best exemplifies your play up to the end of book 1. I treat this as a unique bonus, so if two people are competing for 1 score, I gave the bonus to the person that I felt RP'ed it in a more memorable way.
Additionally, if you have a positive Charisma modifier, you will be able to add to your scores as you see fit.
After creation, changes to Leadership score do not effect your Organization's ability scores. At level up you will gain +1 to any score you choose.
It is EXTREMELY important to note that Survivability, and Loyalty are the two scores that can destroy your organization, so make sure to keep an eye on those.
Actions per Week (slightly modified)
Base leadership score Actions/week
9 or less 1
10-12 2
13-14 3
15-16 4
17-18 5
19-20 6
21 7
22 8
23 9
24+ 10
Action Checks
1d20+appropriate score mod
Target numbers are assigned by the GM based on difficulty given the current circumstances.
Once per action check, you may say to the appropriate minion "you have failed me for the last time", kill him/her, take a -1 to your loyalty score, and re-roll your check.
The Action List
This is not an all-inclusive list, if you can think it up, you can do it, but the GM decides the appropriate check to make. Some actions will require equipment/monetary investment, and other's may gain you something as well.
Abduct Peasants (ruthless)
Assassination (ruthless) *some NPC's are immune to this action
Bribe someone (Secrecy)
Criminal Enterprise (ruthless)
Eavesdrop (Secrecy)
Frame someone (Espionage)
Gather Information (Espionage)
Grave Robbing (Secrecy)
Guard Duty (Special)
Hunt Beasts (ruthless)
Legitimate Enterprise (connections)
Spread Disinformation (Espionage)
Torture Captives (Ruthless)
Trap Building (connections)
Trap Repair (connections)
Recovery Actions
These actions require no roll and can be taken to recover your scores up to a max of 0.
Indoctrinate +1 to loyalty
Lay Low +1 to Secrecy
Recover +1 to Survivability
Training +1 to Ruthless
Introductions +1 to Connections
Get insider information +1 to Espionage
Skill Bonus Actions
As an action you may attempt to have your organization aid you in skill checks. For example, you would get a bonus to intimidate equal to your ruthless score if you attempt to intimidate with a number of your toughest minions standing behind you.
Using Cohorts
A Cohort can aid your minions, adding his/her appropriate modifier to the check you are attempting. For example you can add grumblejack's strength to a ruthless check. This will require your Cohort to be away for the duration of the job, and in some circumstances, your Cohort could die in the process.
Councils of the Wicked
You may wish to form a leadership council. A council averages scores, and combines actions into a pool. That said, a council may disagree. Any proposed action goes up for vote.
Recruiting Minions
Tell me what type of organization you'd like to create, and we'll work on putting it together. Monstrous races are permitted, though you will take penalties if attempting obviously difficult actions. For example Kobolds will not blend well into a crowd, so secrecy actions will be difficult, or possibly not allowed at all.
The problem I’m noticing is with Cohort level. Since we've all just reached level eight, and i have a -1 charisma modifier, i saw that on the vanilla leadership info feat, my cohort should be level 5, rather then the level 4 that he is now since i have a leadership score of 7. When i brought this up with my DM however, i was told to look at the way of the wicked leadership feat info, in which there is no mention of levelling up cohorts, so the DM told me that the cohorts don't level up.
i don't know about you, but that sounds like a reaaally big issue to me, eventually we're going to be level ten or higher and lugging around level four or five cohorts who can't do much of anything. my guy in particular was built to be a second front-liner to help support me in battle. how is he supposed to do that if he's level four?
Are we missing something here? surely cohorts don't just stay at the same level forever right?