where does the starting gold players get come from. How much would people earn

[jk7275]

Using what it cost to hire hirelings as a guideline I don't see most people making a lot of money especially farmers and most people probably are farmers so how does a 1 st level get the money from?
A fighter can have as much as 200 gold and about 110-140 is probably typical. Wouldn't having 100-200 gold make you very rich compared to the majority of the population. How much gold would people earn per year?

[erikun]

In general, the basic assumption (at least with earlier D&D) was that the whole family, or even whole village, pitched in to help the character out and get them started on their adventuring. They might've received a sword for cheap through family favors, or perhaps received an old, worn sword and worked on it to improve the quality. That rope was probably the family's spare, and that backpack one mom stitched together herself. Those spare gold coins might've been something the whole family was doing odd jobs to save up on, and gave to the PC in hopes of giving them a better life.

Or, for more fortunate people, it might've been the PC working odd jobs and pulling in favors themselves in order to get the equipment.

The idea was not that the PC received 200gp and then went shopping in town one day, but rather that the PC took the time to gather the equipment together before leaving and the 200gp is just an in-game way of stating exactly how much equipment they would begin with.

[Grac]

Huge variation depending on backstory and edition for prices. I assume ACKS where 1gp is about what a peasant family would live on for a month. One could convert it to the monthly unemployment payment where you live. Most players books suggest that it was accumulated over a lifetime. Take the typical farmkid turned adventurer you suppose:
Weapon, armour, shield was given as a gift, or inherited from a parent or relative who had been a soldier. Many other pieces of adventuring gear would not be out of place on a farm and are not that expensive.

Due to idiocy related to making the cost meaningful to adventurers, the prices are inflated in most editions and bear no relation to what they should cost in that society. So ignore those prices, they are dumb.

[hifidelity2]

In general, the basic assumption (at least with earlier D&D) was that the whole family, or even whole village, pitched in to help the character out and get them started on their adventuring. They might've received a sword for cheap through family favors, or perhaps received an old, worn sword and worked on it to improve the quality. That rope was probably the family's spare, and that backpack one mom stitched together herself. Those spare gold coins might've been something the whole family was doing odd jobs to save up on, and gave to the PC in hopes of giving them a better life.

Or, for more fortunate people, it might've been the PC working odd jobs and pulling in favors themselves in order to get the equipment.

The idea was not that the PC received 200gp and then went shopping in town one day, but rather that the PC took the time to gather the equipment together before leaving and the 200gp is just an in-game way of stating exactly how much equipment they would begin with.

This is what we have always assumed -
- Granddad dug out his old sword from the war
- Uncle Frank had some old armour
- The local lord seeing his potential may have made him a militia sergeant and so have given him a shield amd a nice helm

etc

[smuchmuch]

To reinforce this, is the idea that Pcs are, even at level one, are somewhat above most NPcs. (as Pc classes are better than equivalent NPCs classes) so it's not u,thinkable they have some experience just to get there.
So a level one fighter may have already done a few odd jobs that would have been solmwhat better paid. a level one thief may have already been a pickpocket for years and their starting gold represent some money they saved for a long time, a level one mage has still studied for years under a master who would have money before they could cast their first spells and so on.

[Grac]

Well back in odnd, a level 1 fighter was called a veteran, so...

[BigBadHarve]

There are any number of backstories you can come up with.

As Grac points out, 1st level fighters are called Veterans, and while that seems silly at first glance, in context it makes perfect sense.

The average person (NPC) in AD&D is 0-level. Only 1 in every 100 people is capable of being 'adventuring class.' A first level fighter is a Veteran because it's assumed that he's seen some combat, whether in be in war, as a soldier, militia, town guard, mercenary etc.

A 1st level warrior is a cut above the normal 0-level character. A 0-level has 1-4 hp (1-6 if soldier or heavy labourer), THACO 21 and minimal access to weapons and gear. A 1st level warrior has 1-10 HP (+CON if any), THACO 20, and access to weapons and gear. They are a step up from the norm, maybe only slightly, but still a step up... and that only increases dramatically as they level. So even a 3rd level fighter is an unbelievable badass when compared to the normal man. (3 attacks/round against the normal man, 3-30 hp (+con), THACO 18....)

But back on topic - That 1st level warrior gets up to 200 gp. (average of 110). That can be explained as spoils of victory on the battlefield, or inheritance, or commission bonus or...or...or... the possibilities are numerous. It's easy enough to just bake it into whatever backstory you want to come up with. A DM in a game I'm playing in uses starting gold to indicate one's social class.

Other classes can be rationalized in similar ways. All PC classes are a step up from the norm, and hence have some training or experience well above the normal peasants, thus justifying their excess funds.

[Anonymouswizard]

Really, the rate that adventurers gain wealth in D&D is insane anyway (I mainly play different systems which don't have as much of a loot expectation), but for the starting gold, the short answer for where it comes from is 'nowhere'.

By which I mean that unless you're in a more lighthearted game like Tunnels and Trolls (the rulebook I read literally had a character go into a store and buy all their gear with gold) or are playing upper class/nobility then most 1st level characters likely have seen less gold pieces than goblins in their lifetime. Most of their equipment will be a mixture of stuff they've stockpiled, received as gifts, looted from dead bodies, stolen from somebody else, on loan from a friend, or something else.

Also bare in mind that while a peasant family probably earns a gold piece per month (depending on the area, those in a city might earn more but have to deal with higher prices) they likely own a few gp in belongings, quite a few more if they own their home, and a decent chunk of money in livestock. There's always the possibility that your character did manage to bag a bag of gold because they sold a load of really good horses to the local lord, and instead of continuing with their current life decided to buy a sword, suit of chain, and risk it on adventuring. Or that your character's family was killed and instead of continuing with life as normal you sold the house, picked up dad's sword, and went to kill those goblins.

Also echoing that PCs tend to be 'more' than just the average person in any game and system (yes, even Call of Cthulhu, but much less so than normal in ways besides 'learns about the mythos'). A 1st level fighter isn't just a guy with a sword, he's a person with combat experience. A 2nd level mage knows secrets most people can't begin to comprehend. A Cleric is literally the chosen of their deity, likely empowered beyond normal priests. It's not actually strange that they'd own more than the average person.

[Lo'Tek]

I run three variations of "starting gold"
1) social rank: a PC from a wealthy family going on a quest to do a family friend a favor starts with more resources compared to a day laborer who picked up adventuring to find riches.
2) starting coin limit: inspired by Shadowrun i set a limit on how much coin a character may start with: starting gold must be spend on equipment, the difference between what is left and the coin limit just vanishes.
2B) I tell players "you wont be able to shop at the players handbooks prices again in the forseeable future. These are base prices and ingame most things sell at a higher price, unless supply/demand is very favorable". This generally leads players to go below the limit without ever telling them about a limit.
3) "Pick your gear, but i may veto it". Basically a player outfits his/her character within what i consider reasonable / balanced.

The whole idea is to have PCs not start naked Elder Scrolls style. A warrior with a backround of doing mercenary work should have a weapon and armor. The idea of starting gold just means "well you can have metal armor or a horse, but not both". The variance imposed by dice rolls may clash with the background: player choose "poor" as a background but starts rich. Player choose rich but rolls low. The later can more easily be explained, but that means forcing background on the PC, which i try to avoid unless it is obvious the player is trying to power game.

In general i dont care about the prices in the books very much. It is mostly about character background and ingame prices vary heavily anyway:
In an elven village some rations may be aquired at the price of a good story.
Goblins tend to see gold/silver/copper coins as a crafting ressource and value it at almost nothing. You want to buy some of that nifty goblin poison? You better bring two sacks of grain.
Dwarves are considered extremly rich by humans but the cost of everything is equally ridiculous. What did you expect after hundreds of years strip mining a mountain range that was settled for its riches in the first place? International trade issues are offset by xenophopia and isolationism.
"You better put those coins away! If the clergy knows you have the face of the goddless king in your pocket you might be burned at the stake"

When it comes to loot i also ignore the books in general. You slay an ogre, you find ogre gear. If you are lucky the ogre still has some human size gear in the "trash pile" near his home, right next to the bones of the last adventurer. If you want to get rich monster hunting is not the best way. Try grave robbing. In some cultures rich people are buried with their jewels. One wants to look good in the afterlive after all. Also all loot is predetermined and if something is useful to the current owner, it will be used.

Some regions may have a type of caste system. A lord may offer 2000 gold coins if you bring him the head of the bandit leader. A simple farmer may never have that kind of money. It is pretty much equivalent to "I give you nobility". Bonus points if he offers 2000 gold coins worth of gems which you can't trade at that rate at a farmers market because they are unable to give you change.

Once i ran a game where everything made of iron/steel was almost unpurchasable. Almost no supply (second hand or imports only), high demand. My players got in a fight with some orcs, which was quite the challenge given the orcs had steel armour. Long story short they were annoyed that orcs do not carry around bags of gold and left a fortune in steel to rot. 100 points to whoever can guess who in the region has an iron mine.


TL:DR If a PCs background says "a poor guy who struggles to survive and turned to adventuring in the hopes that high risk brings high rewards", but starts with enough coin in the pocket to buy a village, you failed as a DM.

[tensai_oni]

Even assuming a first level character is somewhat experienced, 200 gold pieces is a lot from an NPC's perspective. It (or its equivalent in gear) doesn't make you well-to-do, it makes you friggin' rich.

The answer is an OOC one: DnD is not a simulatonist game. It's not meant to depict a setting that is realistic from an economic perspective. It's meant to be an adventuring/dungeon delving game, and prices reflect that, even if it means realistically speaking most characters shouldn't be able to afford their gear, or even to stay alive and in (relative) comfort.

Anything other than that is just rationalizations, though I admit rationalizing things can be fun as a mental exercise.

[Jay R]

If a player asked me where the money for his PC's initial equipment came from, I would say, "I'm not writing your backstory; you write it."

But bear in mind that medieval people without money nonetheless own things. The first level fighter is a trained warrior. Of course she has a weapon, armor, backpack, etc. The first level wizard has been trained by an elder wizard, who gave him his equipment as part of the deal. The young cleric was sent out by the church to defend the faith; they didn't send him out empty-handed and naked.

And I trust nobody has to ask where the young thief got her equipment.

[Anonymouswizard]

I run three variations of "starting gold"
1) social rank: a PC from a wealthy family going on a quest to do a family friend a favor starts with more resources compared to a day laborer who picked up adventuring to find riches.
2) starting coin limit: inspired by Shadowrun i set a limit on how much coin a character may start with: starting gold must be spend on equipment, the difference between what is left and the coin limit just vanishes.
2B) I tell players "you wont be able to shop at the players handbooks prices again in the forseeable future. These are base prices and ingame most things sell at a higher price, unless supply/demand is very favorable". This generally leads players to go below the limit without ever telling them about a limit.
3) "Pick your gear, but i may veto it". Basically a player outfits his/her character within what i consider reasonable / balanced.

The whole idea is to have PCs not start naked Elder Scrolls style. A warrior with a backround of doing mercenary work should have a weapon and armor. The idea of starting gold just means "well you can have metal armor or a horse, but not both". The variance imposed by dice rolls may clash with the background: player choose "poor" as a background but starts rich. Player choose rich but rolls low. The later can more easily be explained, but that means forcing background on the PC, which i try to avoid unless it is obvious the player is trying to power game.

This is the basic idea I use, although I also like the idea of background directly impacting what resources you have to maintain balance (although I rarely play D&D). It might not make sense that a Knight, as a member of the nobility who has been trained since a young age to fight, knows less about combat than a farmer who picked up a spear and joined a mercenary company, but from a game perspective the player of the knight simply invested character resources in status and equipment (such as a suit of plate and horse) rather than into combat Edges/Feats.


In general i dont care about the prices in the books very much. It is mostly about character background and ingame prices vary heavily anyway:
In an elven village some rations may be aquired at the price of a good story.
Goblins tend to see gold/silver/copper coins as a crafting ressource and value it at almost nothing. You want to buy some of that nifty goblin poison? You better bring two sacks of grain.
Dwarves are considered extremly rich by humans but the cost of everything is equally ridiculous. What did you expect after hundreds of years strip mining a mountain range that was settled for its riches in the first place? International trade issues are offset by xenophopia and isolationism.
"You better put those coins away! If the clergy knows you have the face of the goddless king in your pocket you might be burned at the stake"

When it comes to loot i also ignore the books in general. You slay an ogre, you find ogre gear. If you are lucky the ogre still has some human size gear in the "trash pile" near his home, right next to the bones of the last adventurer. If you want to get rich monster hunting is not the best way. Try grave robbing. In some cultures rich people are buried with their jewels. One wants to look good in the afterlive after all. Also all loot is predetermined and if something is useful to the current owner, it will be used.

Some regions may have a type of caste system. A lord may offer 2000 gold coins if you bring him the head of the bandit leader. A simple farmer may never have that kind of money. It is pretty much equivalent to "I give you nobility". Bonus points if he offers 2000 gold coins worth of gems which you can't trade at that rate at a farmers market because they are unable to give you change.

This is generally what I do, along with changing currency so that PCs generally begin with less than 10GP (if I'm running Savage Worlds I might decide 1$=1cp, and adjust equipment to that, making most weapons cost at most 1-4gp assuming I keep D&D denominations). At that point while they can likely sell their stuff for a nice farm and some livestock they can't just buy the village (the exception is nobles and the like, who might have been given equipment that comes out to a whopping 20gp).


Once i ran a game where everything made of iron/steel was almost unpurchasable. Almost no supply (second hand or imports only), high demand. My players got in a fight with some orcs, which was quite the challenge given the orcs had steel armour. Long story short they were annoyed that orcs do not carry around bags of gold and left a fortune in steel to rot. 100 points to whoever can guess who in the region has an iron mine.

The Dark Sun fan in me wants to say Tyr. It does sound a lot like Dark Sun, although I'm fairly certain it doesn't have orcs.

[jk7275]

The idea was not that the PC received 200gp and then went shopping in town one day, but rather that the PC took the time to gather the equipment together before leaving and the 200gp is just an in-game way of stating exactly how much equipment they would begin with.

Well sadly I can see people getting the idea that once training was complete they got x amount of to spend on whatever they felt like.


I run three variations of "starting gold"
1) social rank: a PC from a wealthy family going on a quest to do a family friend a favor starts with more resources compared to a day laborer who picked up adventuring to find riches.
2) starting coin limit: inspired by Shadowrun i set a limit on how much coin a character may start with: starting gold must be spend on equipment, the difference between what is left and the coin limit just vanishes.
2B) I tell players "you wont be able to shop at the players handbooks prices again in the forseeable future. These are base prices and ingame most things sell at a higher price, unless supply/demand is very favorable". This generally leads players to go below the limit without ever telling them about a limit.
3) "Pick your gear, but i may veto it". Basically a player outfits his/her character within what i consider reasonable / balanced.


I always felt something like 2 or 3 makes more sense then rolling some dice and I vaguely remember an article in dragon that was similar to 2b. It dealt with supply and demand. For a paladin or cleric I would think their church would give them decent gear



Goblins tend to see gold/silver/copper coins as a crafting ressource and value it at almost nothing. You want to buy some of that nifty goblin poison? You better bring two sacks of grain.

I like to carry various items just for this type of situation. I always remember how captain Cook traded some iron nails for a bunch of pigs




TL:DR If a PCs background says "a poor guy who struggles to survive and turned to adventuring in the hopes that high risk brings high rewards", but starts with enough coin in the pocket to buy a village, you failed as a DM.

Currently I am in a 1st edition campaign where my character ,a ranger, came from a dirt poor village and I started with 170 gold. My background had him the second born and 2nd born join the military where his potential was noticed. The 170 gold became something I had to explain in addition to everything else. I did donate most of I had left over after buying some gear and a mule
I dont feel it was right for me to start with a lot of money given my background

[RazorChain]

Using what it cost to hire hirelings as a guideline I don't see most people making a lot of money especially farmers and most people probably are farmers so how does a 1 st level get the money from?
A fighter can have as much as 200 gold and about 110-140 is probably typical. Wouldn't having 100-200 gold make you very rich compared to the majority of the population. How much gold would people earn per year?

Depends on what you are playing

In my game the average person earns around 2 gold per month and the players started with 10 gp worth of equipment. Brand new good quality sword costs around 3 gp.

If you are looking at DnD and thinking of economics and trying to rationalize things..please dont. It's an excercice in futility. I have ruined the economy at least twice in DnD campaigns just by looking at the cost of materials, the cost of labour and the cost of the finished product.

[Thrudd]

A.) life savings of the entire family, including the value of property, goods and the year's harvest. Now they're all dead except for you. Or you stole it all/sold it all and ran off.

B.) Found a dead/dying tax collector/rich guy and kept the money, or robbed a tax collector/rich guy and left the area.

C.) Found a buried or abandoned treasure

D.) Sponsored by a wealthy patron/organization

E.) Younger child of a minor noble family, you'll never inherit the land or title. It's your entire inheritance.

F.) Inherited or gifted from a friend or family member who is a former adventurer (basically the same as D.)

[LibraryOgre]

Being lazy, I generally go with 1 gp = $20 (and so 1 sp= $1, 1 ep = $10, 1 pp = $100), and keep most folks at reasonable incomes around there. So, a fighter with 200 gold has about $4000 worth of "stuff"... a $600 sword, $1000 suit of chainmail, and so on.

Using that rubric, a lot of families on the low end are on about 1gp a day, mostly going into bulk foods.

[hifidelity2]

I run three variations of "starting gold"
1) social rank: a PC from a wealthy family going on a quest to do a family friend a favor starts with more resources compared to a day laborer who picked up adventuring to find riches.
2) starting coin limit: inspired by Shadowrun i set a limit on how much coin a character may start with: starting gold must be spend on equipment, the difference between what is left and the coin limit just vanishes.
2B) I tell players "you wont be able to shop at the players handbooks prices again in the forseeable future. These are base prices and ingame most things sell at a higher price, unless supply/demand is very favorable". This generally leads players to go below the limit without ever telling them about a limit.
3) "Pick your gear, but i may veto it". Basically a player outfits his/her character within what i consider reasonable / balanced.

When it comes to loot i also ignore the books in general. You slay an ogre, you find ogre gear. If you are lucky the ogre still has some human size gear in the "trash pile" near his home, right next to the bones of the last adventurer. If you want to get rich monster hunting is not the best way. Try grave robbing. In some cultures rich people are buried with their jewels. One wants to look good in the afterlive after all. Also all loot is predetermined and if something is useful to the current owner, it will be used.



I tend to use a mix of this as well

We normally play point based systems so you can spend points for either direct starting cash, income or status (although status does not give you direct starting money it can help later)

I normally allow a reasonable starting equipment based on your “class” with the right to veto. If you have taken extra cash then you can spend it on better starting kit


As for treasure I normally have it pre-determined and not random- except maybe the amount of lose coin (e.g. you find 1D6 worth of mixed coin in the bandits purse). Also giving the PCs valuable items that are hard to sell / transport can make a whole adventure in itself – I once gave them several hundreds of thousands of GPs worth of tapestries and carpets but of course they had to transport them from where they found them (no bags of holding / teleports in the system) to a market that could afford to buy them

[Storm_Of_Snow]

To reinforce this, is the idea that Pcs are, even at level one, are somewhat above most NPcs. (as Pc classes are better than equivalent NPCs classes) so it's not u,thinkable they have some experience just to get there.
So a level one fighter may have already done a few odd jobs that would have been solmwhat better paid. a level one thief may have already been a pickpocket for years and their starting gold represent some money they saved for a long time, a level one mage has still studied for years under a master who would have money before they could cast their first spells and so on.
Agree - my view is essentially that they started at 0 level commoners, earned an amount of experience from their daily lives, and took a PC class level rather than a commoner class with the amount of experience being equal to that which they'd need for second level (which also explains why mage characters start at older than any others - they need more xps to get there in the first place).

Equipment would depend on the circumstances - a noble choosing to become an adventurer (maybe they're a younger son whose eldest brother's produced an heir and so they're never going to inherit) might have brand-new, custom made equipment, while a dispossessed one might have what they're able to grab and run away with, a thief might have used the five-fingered discount, a Cleric could have well-worn but still serviceable hand-me-downs from their parent church, an ex-soldier might have deserted and taken his armour and equipment with him (plus anything he could loot off the battlefield or from the baggage train), if they're a government agent (maybe the party's being set up to do something and provide plausible deniability, or perhaps they're a sanctioned troubleshooting group), it could be equipment they're issued, a lothario/courtesan character might have gifts from their lovers - some practical, some financial that they've converted into equipment, and so on.

[Slipperychicken]

That equipment is your PC's entire net worth. You got it however you did; buying, theft, gifts, hand-me-downs, adventuring, borrowing, you name it.

[thirdkingdom]

Being lazy, I generally go with 1 gp = $20 (and so 1 sp= $1, 1 ep = $10, 1 pp = $100), and keep most folks at reasonable incomes around there. So, a fighter with 200 gold has about $4000 worth of "stuff"... a $600 sword, $1000 suit of chainmail, and so on.

Using that rubric, a lot of families on the low end are on about 1gp a day, mostly going into bulk foods.

If anyone is *really* into this sort of thing I would recommend ACKS, a somewhat crunchy D&D take on the B/X system. The third issue of Axioms, the quarterly ACKS zine (available through rpgnow) dives *deep* into setting economics.

[The BlindCleric]

What they said.:smallsmile:

If I'm running an adventure for a group of newbies, I like to run a 0 level adventure in which the characters (not yet PCs) spend time in the city trying to pull together enough equipment, weapons and supplies to set off on an adventure. Its a great way to introduce new people to the game and a welcome change for veterans playing in one high level adventure after another. In fact, a good friend of mine and veteran player still talks about how his character arm wrestled in taverns, did henchman/bouncer work for a guild official and fought for prize money, all to earn enough gp to buy what later turned out to be a finely crafted +2 long sword. One of only 3 occasions where I allowed a magic item to a new character :smallsmile:.

[Nightcanon]

The poor background/ 200gp starting wealth disconnect can be explained in a number of ways: gift from church or lord for a cleric or paladin; graduation present from mentor for a wizard. Thief has just pulled off the job of his life so far. Even the 17 year-old farmboy who set out from home with half a loaf and a heal of cheese after his village was burned by raiders stops on the way out to take the sword and armour from a fallen soldier who has no further use for them. I don't have my 2e books to hand, but I'm pretty sure that something similar is stated in the preamble to the equipment chapter in that edition.
Rich background & no money can be similarly explained: war or theft or natural disaster, or a bad business deal can explain why someone previous well-off is currently a bit down on their luck.

[Hopeless]

Okay let's try some examples using some Neverwinter characters...

The Paladin inherited most of his gear from his father, it's had to be refitted, cleaned and repaired a bit more often but works well, his daughter a Ranger was trained in the circus that raised her after her Great Aunt her father left her with died.
Most of her stuff is pretty basic most are secondhand thanks to the contacts her foster family helped her with.

The Drow Illusionist other than his spellbook like barely owned the clothes he wore most of his gear he either purchased or "acquired" over many years surviving on the surface his friends and allies proved more important to his survival than his gear!

The mercenary cleric is literally a grandfather his gear the result of decades of hard work and trying to raise his family in these tough times!

The Warlock is the youngest of his granddaughters and quite spoiled nearly getting herself killed before learning she isn't the pinnacle she thought she was.
Her gear the result of using the accumulated resources she was spoiled with before her Grandfather was expelled from Baldur's Gate!

Deirdre the eldest granddaughter trained to become a City Guard, her gear the result of her hard work attempting to prove herself but finding herself similarly expelled sharing her Grandfather's fate she unlike her kid sister is trying to cope.
Her gear is what she earned over the few years she served in the guard let alone when training to join the militia her change in fortunes genuinely shaken but unlike her sister any friends she made were genuine and didn't abandon her when their fortunes turned for the worse...

The dwarf from the Moonshae Islands didn't expect life on the mainland to be so tough, but being a dwarf prepared him well his gear mostly inherited or gifts from family now far away their mere presence he finds reassuring given how far away from home he is.

It's not the monetary price that's important it's how they relate to the character i feel not that matters once they get the chance to upgrade!😉

[Sagetim]

I feel the need to point out that Unskilled Labor is what gets 1 silver piece a day. Farmers get paid more than that, they make Profession (Farmer) checks and would have Skill Focus (Farming) and maximum ranks for their level. At level 1, that's a +7. We'll say they take 10 to get an average result of 17. 17/2 is 8.5 gold per week working the farm. Now, mind you, they also have to pay taxes. And depending on their lord and the laws of the land, they may have to spend time working their lord's farm at no profit. So take 10% out of that for the local church tithe, and you get about 8 silver eaten by holy men. Take out anywhere between 5 and 50% for the local lord (so between 4 and 40 silver), and then reduce their income capable weeks per month from 4 to 3. Oh, and then pay out from the remaining income on things like clothes, tools, possibly seed, animals, and all kinds of other things.

And if you want to be realistic about it, the farmer is generating trade goods worth the amount of his profession check instead of money itself. Which means they have to barter or roll diplomacy to haggle and sell their goods to either passing merchants or take their goods to market to sell.

Let's settle at a 'fair' tax rate of 30% for the local lord, and 10% church tithe, and look at that income again: 85 silver x .6 = 51 silver. That's still waaaay more than the 1 silver a day unskilled laborer price. And even if they eat up large chunks of that from paying for various expenses, they're probably still able to save a gold piece a week from that income. As compared to the unskilled laborers, who have to potentially figure out how to pay for room, board, and all the little things they need to get by with on a single silver piece a day. If they pay for meals, that's already eating something like half their income each day, and if they have to pay for a place to sleep they are probably moving into territory of losing money every day they work as an unskilled laborer.

For context, Unskilled Labor is moving boxes and similar tasks. Farming, Smithing, Tailoring, Bowyering, Book Binding, being an Apothecary, A Mason, A Barrister, A Lumberer, and so on are all Skilled Labor tasks. They exist as skills that you can be proficient in and thus make checks to earn a living doing. And even if your character Isn't one of those things, they probably come from family who Are, and could thus help them save up the 200 gold in a matter of a few years, instead of a lifetime.

Edit: Oh, and the Farmer could well be employing Unskilled Laborers as Farm Hands to give him aid another bonuses to his profession checks. While this would cost him 7 silver a week, the +2 bonus would also increase his income by another gold piece, giving a net profit of 3 silver. That net profit of 3 silver then gets taxed by 40%, with the end result still being a profit margin of 18 copper per Farm Hand, making it an incentive for the Farmer to hire Farm Hands up to the limit of his farm's ability to be worked. That's not including saving for and purchasing masterwork tools from the local smith when they can be afforded to further inflate the skill check, nor does it count aging up and getting a higher wisdom modifier, nor the likely gradual leveling that happens as you keep living in a given world. If nothing else, a venerable farmer could be a level 3 commoner with 7 ranks of profession (farmer) skill focus for +3 more, +1 wisdom modifier, and +2 masterwork tools for a +13 bonus, not including aid another checks from Farm Hands, nor the likelyhood of having children or grandchildren who could also make Profession (Farmer) checks alongside them.

[Jay R]

It comes from the rulebook. If a player wants an in-character answer, tell him he is free to write his own backstory.

"After many years of training to be a fighter, I was standing on a street corner naked, with no money and no possessions. A thief was being pursued by the city guards, and she threw her loot of 5d4 x 10 gp at me. I hid it in my pockets and sauntered by looking innocent. Then I went over to the blacksmith and bought the sword and armor I'd been training with for years, went to a general store and purchased adventuring gear, and then visited the tailor to buy clothes."

[Katrina]

It comes from the rulebook. If a player wants an in-character answer, tell him he is free to write his own backstory.

"After many years of training to be a fighter, I was standing on a street corner naked, with no money and no possessions. A thief was being pursued by the city guards, and she threw her loot of 5d4 x 10 gp at me. I hid it in my pockets and sauntered by looking innocent. Then I went over to the blacksmith and bought the sword and armor I'd been training with for years, went to a general store and purchased adventuring gear, and then visited the tailor to buy clothes."

Lol, most awesome wealth story ever.


Have to admit, I have no problems with the concept of where the gold comes from. My problem is that the gold is based on class and has obviously been figured into the concept of "Balance" for that class. Why else would the Monk and Kineticist (pathfinder) have 1d4*10 gp?

[Beleriphon]

The poor background/ 200gp starting wealth disconnect can be explained in a number of ways: gift from church or lord for a cleric or paladin; graduation present from mentor for a wizard. Thief has just pulled off the job of his life so far. Even the 17 year-old farmboy who set out from home with half a loaf and a heal of cheese after his village was burned by raiders stops on the way out to take the sword and armour from a fallen soldier who has no further use for them. I don't have my 2e books to hand, but I'm pretty sure that something similar is stated in the preamble to the equipment chapter in that edition.

Or the farm boy leaves with a crazy old wizard, two warforged, a rogue and a yeti(?). The wizard gives him his father's sword. Then the farm boy sells his horse, rescues a princess, the wizard dies, and he blows up a castle. Then he gets trained by even crazier old wizard, finds his dad (who is Evil!), topples the thieves guild, rescues the rogue (who by this point is his best friend), redeems his dad, and survives the explosion of another even bigger castle! In the sequel the whole thing happens again with a girl.

[thorr-kan]

Or the farm boy leaves with a crazy old wizard, two warforged, a rogue and a yeti(?). The wizard gives him his father's sword. Then the farm boy sells his horse, rescues a princess, the wizard dies, and he blows up a castle. Then he gets trained by even crazier old wizard, finds his dad (who is Evil!), topples the thieves guild, rescues the rogue (who by this point is his best friend), redeems his dad, and survives the explosion of another even bigger castle! In the sequel the whole thing happens again with a girl.
Ah, somebody saw The Hidden Fortress recently...

[D+1]

Where do you get starting money?

You earned and saved it for many years
You found it
You stole it
You inherited it
You were given it as a gift
You sold your farm/business
You kidnapped someone and sold them into slavery
You took out a loan
Your mentor actually provided all your gear and provisions
You mustered out of service with all your gear/provisions

Or any combination of any of the above.
To a LIMITED extent you can infer how much people might earn by looking at the prices player characters have to pay for food/lodging but you have to note that in AD&D these are assumed to be inflated "boomtown" prices from a lot of fairly specialized merchants, craftsmen and tradesmen. The PH thus tends to suggest a more Renaissance-level economy than a Feudal/Medieval economy, even though most of the trappings of various settings lean towards medieval. So, the short version is that what people EARN in cold hard cash is HIGHLY debatable (and not really worth the effort to do so).

When I looked closer at actual PC upkeep costs given PH prices what I found (in 1E) is that a very, very poor level of subsistence can be bought for 4gp per month - you have to scrounge for somewhere to sleep, and you're dangerously close to starvation and utter destitution, but not quite there. A basic, "civilized" level of comfort is 30gp per month which gives you decent food, clothes, lodging, and maybe even just a bit left over. I actually use that as a high water mark for peasants. If things are going well in the area where they live, that's the level of comfort they live at and gives some indication what it costs IF they would have to buy all of it (but most don't). In hard times, harsher climates, and under oppressive leaders their lot in life will slide down from there. 100gp per month gets you a pretty good life and that's the kind of money that the relatively few merchants that actually exist will be spending and thus obviously earning a reasonable bit more than that.

[Jay R]

A basic, "civilized" level of comfort is 30gp per month which gives you decent food, clothes, lodging, and maybe even just a bit left over. I actually use that as a high water mark for peasants.

That seems far above peasants. These are townspeople.

The average peasants are farmers on somebody else's land. Their food is grown locally, and not paid for. Their shelter is provided, and not worth much. Clothes are made, not store-bought. They may never see any actual money.

You are pricing short-term rental rates and prepared food. Adventurers buy rooms in inns and buy meals; townsfolk live in homes and buy ingredients to cook. Peasants raise food, and live in hovels.

[An Enemy Spy]

It comes from the rulebook. If a player wants an in-character answer, tell him he is free to write his own backstory.

"After many years of training to be a fighter, I was standing on a street corner naked, with no money and no possessions. A thief was being pursued by the city guards, and she threw her loot of 5d4 x 10 gp at me. I hid it in my pockets and sauntered by looking innocent. Then I went over to the blacksmith and bought the sword and armor I'd been training with for years, went to a general store and purchased adventuring gear, and then visited the tailor to buy clothes."

Aren't you naked? I don't think I want to know which "pocket" you snuck it into, but I am impressed you did it without looking conspicuous.

[huginn]

I always felt that it would be in the spirit of the game to only with a weapon, armor, some items and maybe a small amount of gold. It may feel more like a struggle and what ever you get you feel like you earned it

[Anonymouswizard]

I always felt that it would be in the spirit of the game to only with a weapon, armor, some items and maybe a small amount of gold. It may feel more like a struggle and what ever you get you feel like you earned it

To be honest, there are games where this is either the case, or it's assumed that 90% of your wealth is tied up in stuff like a house. I'm surprised that D&D characters tend to begin with so much (and the last time I played was 5e, where we got class and background hear and rolled for gold on top of that, we could have sold out stuff and lubed comfortably for a couple of decades). The best D&D game I was ever in we began with whatever was reasonable, so a weapon or two, whatever armour to wanted, and a few pieces of gear that we'd potentially lose one the game began (you got to keep most stuff, it was mainly the stupid number of consumables I was considering).

I remember when I played Evernight for a few setting sessions (a Savage Worlds setting), I was an elf and pretty much had my view, a sword, some arrows, leather armour, and some reasons. It felt much more like being an adventurer.

[LibraryOgre]

Have to admit, I have no problems with the concept of where the gold comes from. My problem is that the gold is based on class and has obviously been figured into the concept of "Balance" for that class. Why else would the Monk and Kineticist (pathfinder) have 1d4*10 gp?

Rather, it is gold they actually need.

A monk doesn't need much gold... and can't have much, in many games. Their weapons are cheap and they can't wear armor. Likewise, a wizard, though they wind up squeaking on expensive spell components. Thieves need a bit more money... thieves tools and some weapons, but again, cheap armor. Clerics and fighters need more, because their effectiveness is partially tied to their gear... a fighter with 20 gold is pretty well screwed, while one with 50 gold has a bit better chance (since they can get some armor worth at least and AC of 6, with a weapon and a shield, likely).

[Jay R]

Aren't you naked? I don't think I want to know which "pocket" you snuck it into, but I am impressed you did it without looking conspicuous.

I'm really good at what I do.

Pssst. It was supposed to be a farce.

[D+1]

That seems far above peasants. These are townspeople.

The average peasants are farmers on somebody else's land. Their food is grown locally, and not paid for. Their shelter is provided, and not worth much. Clothes are made, not store-bought. They may never see any actual money.

You are pricing short-term rental rates and prepared food. Adventurers buy rooms in inns and buy meals; townsfolk live in homes and buy ingredients to cook. Peasants raise food, and live in hovels.
And, as I said, AD&D presents something much more akin to a Renaissance economy than a Medieval or feudal one. And, as I said, even using the PH prices a COMMON PERSON paid in cash could subsist on 4gp per month and live in reasonable comfort on 30gp per month. Pick the level of hard currency that YOU want "peasants" to possess - noting, again, that "peasants" in AD&D are hardly ever depicted as feudal peasants, but more as sharecroppers or simply as poor, but independent subsistence farmers who still sell crops and animals at markets for cash.

[LibraryOgre]

And, as I said, AD&D presents something much more akin to a Renaissance economy than a Medieval or feudal one. And, as I said, even using the PH prices a COMMON PERSON paid in cash could subsist on 4gp per month and live in reasonable comfort on 30gp per month. Pick the level of hard currency that YOU want "peasants" to possess - noting, again, that "peasants" in AD&D are hardly ever depicted as feudal peasants, but more as sharecroppers or simply as poor, but independent subsistence farmers who still sell crops and animals at markets for cash.

D&D makes the most sense to me when viewed as a Western in medieval fantasy drag.