3.5 Fighter Dead Levels Replacement

[ViperMagnum357]

I have been mulling the base Fighter again, and those dead levels really irk me. The Zhentarim additions at 3th, 5th, and 9th levels are fine, but the dead levels supplement released by Wizards was...ugly. You will almost never need to make prolonged activity or forced march checks past early levels; and the balance bonus is the kind of thing you tack on to a terrible feat to elevate just shy of mediocre. The strength bonus is narrow, but stacks well with the bonuses from Dungeoncrasher: which would be much more useful in a world without Adamantine and damage multipliers + full attacks making short work of objects.

:smallfrown:So, has anyone found any official replacements for odd Fighter levels in third party? I have gone through all the 1st party material and Dragon Magazine without anything to work with.

[ATHATH]

Actually, I came across a really nice Fighter fix lately. Lemme see if I can find it.

[Tiktakkat]

How about the Talent trees from D20 Modern?

Perhaps combining the Strong and Tough Hero sets for Fighters.

I've considered it, but have been implementing other variations instead.

[Coretron03]

There's a article about it here
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a
Pretty much useless but about as official as you'll get.

[ATHATH]

Found it!

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=33294

Scroll down to "Fighter".

The no-save double-noping ability gained by it at 13th level might seem a bit strong, but if Team Monster only has two notable actions per turn, they'd be pretty much already dead anyway (and casters have been breaking the action economy with no save for a while now, anyway, so let martials have nice things).

[ViperMagnum357]

@Athath: Nice fix, though I am leaning more towards books-I also have at least five homebrew fixes filed away in my notebooks, so I was looking for something in print.

D20 Modern-now there is an idea, since compatibility was foremost among that and BESM D20-I will take a look at both systems. I would prefer something from 3.0/3.5, but I have gone through most third party sources I am aware of and been appalled at the lack of support for a core class. I think what really got my goat this morning was when I cracked AEG Wilds and found no less than six core variations on ranger, and nothing that could be construed as a fighter expansion anywhere in that line of books.:smallfurious:

[ATHATH]

@Athath: Nice fix, though I am leaning more towards books-I also have at least five homebrew fixes filed away in my notebooks, so I was looking for something in print.

D20 Modern-now there is an idea, since compatibility was foremost among that and BESM D20-I will take a look at both systems. I would prefer something from 3.0/3.5, but I have gone through most third party sources I am aware of and been appalled at the lack of support for a core class. I think what really got my goat this morning was when I cracked AEG Wilds and found no less than six core variations on ranger, and nothing that could be construed as a fighter expansion anywhere in that line of books.:smallfurious:
The thing that I linked is practically a small book (and is structured like one)- scroll down more if you don't believe me.

[ViperMagnum357]

Thanks-I am still poring through that post-odd that I have not come across it before. I was looking for something printed to bring to the table without getting into homebrew oneupsmanship. I am leaning towards Strong/Tough Hero from D20 Modern, and will have another look at BESM D20 tomorrow.

[Rerednaw]

I have been mulling the base Fighter again, and those dead levels really irk me. The Zhentarim additions at 3th, 5th, and 9th levels are fine, but the dead levels supplement released by Wizards was...ugly. You will almost never need to make prolonged activity or forced march checks past early levels; and the balance bonus is the kind of thing you tack on to a terrible feat to elevate just shy of mediocre. The strength bonus is narrow, but stacks well with the bonuses from Dungeoncrasher: which would be much more useful in a world without Adamantine and damage multipliers + full attacks making short work of objects.

:smallfrown:So, has anyone found any official replacements for odd Fighter levels in third party? I have gone through all the 1st party material and Dragon Magazine without anything to work with.

Are you set on fighter only? No ToB?

[ViperMagnum357]

I was looking at fighter specifically, otherwise I would have just built off Warblade. I think I have settled on the Strong/Tough hero Archetype from D20 Modern; mechanically, it just adds either a stacking bonus to strength checks or some minor damage Reduction in the same vein as a Barbarian, but it is far better than the WOTC dead levels enhancement.

Also, I went digging through the Fighter ACFs, and I was wondering if you could mix and match provided you are not replacing the same thing more than once-like the D12 Hit Die from Dwarf Fighter with the 8th level replacement and the scaling weapon enhancement from the Kensai 1st level ACF.

Is there any real use to boosting strength checks for breaking/bursting items if you can also have a high damage charger build? That is, being more efficient or effective with a single check than a few turns just dealing damage?

[Big Fau]

Found it!

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=33294

Scroll down to "Fighter".

The no-save double-noping ability gained by it at 13th level might seem a bit strong, but if Team Monster only has two notable actions per turn, they'd be pretty much already dead anyway (and casters have been breaking the action economy with no save for a while now, anyway, so let martials have nice things).

Isn't that the Frank and K Tome Fighter? If so, that's designed for Rocket Tag-style gameplay and YMMV on how effective it is.

[tyckspoon]

Is there any real use to boosting strength checks for breaking/bursting items if you can also have a high damage charger build? That is, being more efficient or effective with a single check than a few turns just dealing damage?

Break/burst would be used in situations where, for whatever reason, you can't hit what you want to break with a weapon. It might also be relevant if you are trying to break something with excessive Hardness, since the Break check doesn't interact with that mechanism, although you'd likely need some impressive bonuses to Break something that was otherwise too Hard to just smash. It could also be useful where time is a factor; you could possibly Break check something in a single action that might need 3-4 rounds to chop through. Think about traps and capture/imprisonment situations as places where Break checks might be favored, either for expediency or because you simply don't have a weapon that you can sensibly attack things with.

[Flickerdart]

the dead levels supplement released by Wizards was...ugly

The dead level article was intentionally supposed to be minor in impact. The idea was not to make classes more powerful, but rather to make them more flavourful by adding minor but appropriate abilities.