Iron Blooded Orphans

[t209]

Think Gundam Wings meets Red Faction meets Beast of No Nation meets Black Company.
A tale of mercenaries who procure Gundam from ancient time before the "Port Disaster".
And quite different from other Gundam series from focus on melee and ballistic weapons rather than beam weaponry.
Also here's the sample of the mobile suits.
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/gundam/images/2/21/Gundam_Iron_Blooded_Oprhans_MS.png
Don't know but I am not a fan of exposed joints. Realistic feel but a good round might ruin a pilot's day.
Just post here on the opinion on the new show.

[khadgar567]

Think Gundam Wings meets Red Faction meets Beast of No Nation meets Black Company.
A tale of mercenaries who procure Gundam from ancient time before the "Port Disaster".
And quite different from other Gundam series from focus on melee and ballistic weapons rather than beam weaponry.
Also here's the sample of the mobile suits.
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/gundam/images/2/21/Gundam_Iron_Blooded_Oprhans_MS.png
Don't know but I am not a fan of exposed joints. Realistic feel but a good round might ruin a pilot's day.
Just post here on the opinion on the new show.
For me its more like how we fix sekai kamiki incident while full on sleep deprivation experiment

[Lord Raziere]

My impression of it is "So you took the Dai-Gurren Brigade, and made a realistic version of them in a universe of Actual Politics and so on" which I found interesting.

Because thats basically what the show is about. Orga is basically Kamina if he actually had to develop tactics and political savvy, Mikazuki is basically Simon if he actually faced consequences for being a super-elite mecha pilot, Atra is basically Nia, Eugene is basically Kittan, and Tekkadan is basically the Dai-Gurren Brigade as a whole if they lived in a realistic world but used all the same methods they do in TTGL.

I mean, they start in a desert, their gundam pilots are all men, Mikazuki's is an ancient mech that he unearthed, its kind of blindingly obvious.

[khadgar567]

You know all the reason why iron blooded orphans created is make a legitimate way to justify sekai kamiki's asimilation ability works in non toy universe. So all tekkadan bulls*th is just to fix in universe plot hole created by some other series they cant ret con it with out butchering the cash cow

[Kato]

I mean, they start in a desert, their gundam pilots are all men, Mikazuki's is an ancient mech that he unearthed, its kind of blindingly obvious.

Yes, if you ignore 90% of content and characterization it is totally obvious...

Now that it's heading towards its end, I rather enjoyed IBO as a decent if not good Gundam entry. It's major flaw is clearly the lack of a likable main character, because Mika might be a good pilot and decent fun at times, his main contribution as taking Naze's lesson about harems and rolling with it.
Luckily, there's a bunch of fine other characters. None I love but enough I care about. Sadly our Char(s) are also only okay and not better.
I like the mecha designs, albeit the battles are more average. The politics can be interesting but it quite depends on the arc.

I'm not yet totally sure where it will end but I'll stay tuned. It was fun to watch, for the most part.

[Lurkmoar]

I have the same problem with this show as I did with Ranma 1/2. I liked the story and the design, but I hated the characters. All of them, except for the sympathetic ones that died. It was okay with Ranma 1/2, since it was a comedy, but since drama only matters if you care about the people involved...

*shrug*

[Haruspex_Pariah]

This is the first Gundam series I ever started following, can't for the life of me remember what drew my attention to it. I'm vaguely aware of the Gundam series, but it's all second hand wiki kind of stuff; I never watched it.

It's okay I guess. Kind of depressing at points, especially with recent developments. Giant mechs fighting other giant mechs, space ships, et cetera.




I feel that Mika is weird. Protagonist characters are either relatable or admirable in some way. This guy is neither. He's a kickass mech pilot with a kickass mech but his interactions are often awkward. There are hints of him wanting more than just a life of fighting, specifically farming for some reason, but overall I find him very difficult to read. And then there's him and Atra apparently having...made a baby? A baby?? I'm glad it happened off-screen but it seems like an event that should have more gravity to it, right? I get this isn't a romance story but damn that's cold.

McGillis turned out to be disappointingly off the mark with his grand plan, and dragging Tekkadan down with him seems like a real possibility. The heck is he going to do running around all solo with Bael. Fly up to Elion's ship and shank him with giant mech swords?

Why the hell didn't Orga jump back into the doorway or into the car when the people started shooting? I'll take pointless deaths for $5.00 please.

I'm not familiar with Gundam plot conventions but at this point I could see McGillis, Tekkadan, and Kudelia killed and the world goes on without them having changed anything. That looks like the setup to me, especially with Orga being the only person keeping Mika focused.

[BWR]

I gave up about three episodes in. Primarily because I didn't give a crap about any of the characters and the politics and action weren't interesting enough to keep me.

[Kato]

I gave up about three episodes in. Primarily because I didn't give a crap about any of the characters and the politics and action weren't interesting enough to keep me.

Each to their own, obviously. But while I agree on the characters, well at least not being any special, but the subject of child soldiers seeking to make their own place in the world seemed interesting enough to me. I can see how it's not special enough to draw everyone's attention, though.


@haruspex while Gundam at times had very dark plots and endings, my guess is you're predictions on the end are a bit too dark. We'll see, though.

[tensai_oni]

I gave up on the show halfway through the first season.

The first episodes were tight, they felt dangerous and gritty. Then they left for space and it immediately lost all steam. The series became really slow-paced and boring, and the grittiness was replaced with "local orphan is f***ing invincible" as Mika curbstomps opponents left and right.

Also even from the start the show was really looking down on the viewer. Choco Char is always there ready to carefully spoonfeed relevant exposition to make sure the viewers "get it", it's borderline insulting. The writing is pretty bad too, with plot points appearing out of nowhere and immediately becoming relevant. Look, not-Guts mentions he has a brother out of nowhere even though it'd make sense for him to establish that before! And now, the brother immediately appears and is the focus of an episode, what a twist!

I heard the second season is a little better but I don't care enough to find out.

At least the mobile suit designs are pretty sweet, even if a lot of them are the same base suit recycled with minor variations. Still, I have a HG Graze on my shelf and it looks great.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

@haruspex while Gundam at times had very dark plots and endings, my guess is you're predictions on the end are a bit too dark. We'll see, though.

Well maybe. I felt season 2 tried really hard to screw over the Tekkadan lads, culminating in them losing basically everything they gained as of the most recent episode. I'm seeing a line graph where the points keep getting lower and lower. But as you said, we'll see.

[Hunter Noventa]

I've certainly enjoyed following the show. I think the point of MIkazuki is that he is broken to an extent, they all are, he's not supposed to be that likable, but he does clearly care about people more than just doing what Orga tells him.

But man, talk about mood whiplash after GBF Try. But it's still a great show, and clearly sells Gunpla, which is half the reason any Gundam show gets made. *glances at shelf full of gunpla*

[Kato]

I've certainly enjoyed following the show. I think the point of MIkazuki is that he is broken to an extent, they all are, he's not supposed to be that likable, but he does clearly care about people more than just doing what Orga tells him.

But man, talk about mood whiplash after GBF Try. But it's still a great show, and clearly sells Gunpla, which is half the reason any Gundam show gets made. *glances at shelf full of gunpla*

Mika is clearly broken, but a friend of mine argued that is because (a lot of) Gundam fans don't want some lovey-dovey protagonist but a mindless killing machine that destroys stuff. And he does that well. I mean, yeah, he does care for at least his comrades + Atra + Kudelia (+ Hush). But he is far from the compassionate character who learns the value of human life he could have been. He's a victim of his youth but he's not really shaking that off. I mean, I like him well enough, despite that, others like him for it.

Half? It's like 90%... I mean, I loved Build Fighters' first season but I'm going to guess their sale numbers never went up like that before or after.

[t209]

Just on Episode 9, more exposition on the universe. A bit Japanese culture influence but do note that there is bilingualism, like Mika is (barely) reading English but don't understand Japanese.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Just on Episode 9, more exposition on the universe. A bit Japanese culture influence but do note that there is bilingualism, like Mika is (barely) reading English but don't understand Japanese.

I noticed that almost all of the text is in reasonably accurate English. I don't know if that's intentional, or normal for a Gundam show. It does give you added bonuses if you pause and read some of the documents.

[Kato]

And we're making leaps towards the finale... Chocolate man actually dies without really achieving anything... apart from killing a bunch of people and making others sad. Good going, bro. But I guess we needed the lesson taught.

Also: Hush is dead. Effing Hush! Show, why do you hate gays? Okay, IBO hates everyone, so no big surprise...

Otherwise... I guess I can see a huge massacre coming but I don't expect everyone everyone to die... But Mika might. ZETA ending? Oh, right, but mustached rat guy survives. I'd not have bet a single dollar on that when the show started.

[Ravenlord]

This show is going to be really unconventional if it ends how I think it ends. Then again, I've read people say that IBO is as much a gangster show as much Gundam, and that certainly brings things into context.

Most gangster shows don't have a happy end. People die, usually messily, and the world doesn't change one bit.

...which would be a definite first for a Gundam show, and I would love IBO to death if that were to happen... finally a show were the super-powerful mecha pilot does not kick the world out of its axis!

[Lord Raziere]

This show is going to be really unconventional if it ends how I think it ends. Then again, I've read people say that IBO is as much a gangster show as much Gundam, and that certainly brings things into context.

Most gangster shows don't have a happy end. People die, usually messily, and the world doesn't change one bit.

...which would be a definite first for a Gundam show, and I would love IBO to death if that were to happen... finally a show were the super-powerful mecha pilot does not kick the world out of its axis!

First? Man, do you even Universal Century? That timeline of Gundam has had war happen so repeatedly and without any luck in ending it that its practically a joke, and there is more than one Gundam where the protagonists just all die, hasn't happened in recent shows, but its not an unknown thing in Gundam.

[Ravenlord]

UC is kind of an odd mixture. There's definitely a bleak atmosphere because in the grimdark future, there's only gunpla sales; but at the same time, the protagonists always manage to close the current war and bring utter defeat to the Currently Evil Side (TM). Amuro defeated Zeon, Kamille defeated the Titans and Paptimus, Judau defeated Neo-Zeon, Banagher practically became something like God... you get my drift :)

It's only the OVAs where the scale goes down to appreciable levels, and I think that's why I consider 0080, 08th MS team or IGLOO "closer" to UC than the more epic TV-series.

In this regard, IBO feels a lot less upbeat than the usual UC TV-serie so far. It's a bit like fresh air... well, at least to me, anyway!

[Haruspex_Pariah]

McGillis, after all his big talk, manipulations, and grand plots, dies in a short gunfight in the corridors of the enemy ship. That he was defeated by Gaelio and Ein is somewhat fitting.

He wasn't what I consider to be a good man, but the actions of Gjallarhorn in general and Elion in particular make me think something about that organisation really did need to change. I feel bad for all the people who put their hopes on McGillis to make that happen.

[t209]

Just reached up to Episode 12
Why did Masahiro give up his life like that? I feel bad for not!Guts after reuniting with him.

[Lurkmoar]

Just reached up to Episode 12
Why did Masahiro give up his life like that? I feel bad for not!Guts after reuniting with him.

This is the first season you're talking about right? My viewing lead me to believe that he thought his brother abandoned him and he took badly that they were never reunited. Him with Tekkaden made him think that not!Guts (cute) completely forgot about him. When he realized that wasn't the case, he jumped in front of the bullet to atone. Not to mention several of the Brewers pilots were killed in combat, likely several of them good friends he knew for years. He didn't have much time to think it through.

[t209]

This is the first season you're talking about right? My viewing lead me to believe that he thought his brother abandoned him and he took badly that they were never reunited. Him with Tekkaden made him think that not!Guts (cute) completely forgot about him. When he realized that wasn't the case, he jumped in front of the bullet to atone. Not to mention several of the Brewers pilots were killed in combat, likely several of them good friends he knew for years. He didn't have much time to think it through.
Yeah, first season. Just happen to be watching it online.
http://i.imgur.com/DGbfrUO.jpg Parody but it kinda give nod to "Valhalla for aces and fallen".

[Kato]

Yeah, first season. Just happen to be watching it online.
http://i.imgur.com/DGbfrUO.jpg Parody but it kinda give nod to "Valhalla for aces and fallen".

This is super adorable and also now my head canon.
(but why did it turn Domon and Kiyoji into children?)

[t209]

This is super adorable and also now my head canon.
(but why did it turn Domon and Kiyoji into children?)
Maybe something to remind of their childhood they lost?
Also wondering about Shinn Asuka being happy-go-lucky teenager in that universe since his family didn't get blown up.
Or Patrick Zala being a cool old guy with wife and Athrun than raving space racist.
Or entire Trinity siblings.
Or Biscuit and his entire family

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Well.

...

...

I have mixed feelings about this. I knew that nothing short of a miracle would allow the Tekkadan rearguard to get out of there alive, and the show is pretty light on miracles. On the other hand most of them survive and the epilogue shows them in a decent state. Except Ride who seems to be on the run after assassinating McMurdo (that he pulled it off and escaped alive is impressive).

It's unclear to me if the Tekkadan members have changed their identities or something similar; it didn't seem like Rustal would have just let them go based on what he said to Orga, I might have to rewatch the episode. I mean, Eugene was within arm's reach of the guy after the abolishment of human debris. Maybe they did carry out the plan to hack their identity records after escaping Mars. Or maybe killing the rearguard was enough for Gjallarhorn.

Iok gets crushed to gruesome death by Akihiro's giant crab pincer, after foolishly telling the dying muscle man his name. I don't think anybody really feels bad for him.

Mikazuki dies after going full out, surviving a railgun orbital strike (which Akihiro did too), and killing countless Gjallarhorn troops. Kind of lame that Julia gets credit for the kill, but Gjallarhorn pretty much controls all information anyway, and technically she was the last opponent to fight him.

Rustal's reforms are kind of surprising. But I guess the rebellion itself and the loss of three families meant the old system was no longer tenable.

Kudelia becomes chairperson of the Mars Union, which is not at all surprising.

Gaelio gets shipped with Julia. At first I didn't know why he was wheelchair-bound, but TvTropes says it's because he removed his AV implant.

Lil' Akatsuki suffers from cartoon genetics; face of one parent and hair of the other. And I'm sorry but it's really weird to see Atra not short anymore.

[Berserk Mecha]

So the series is now concluded, and... yeah, that is certainly not what I expected.


So, Mikazuki died, which I'm kind of bummed about. After living past his best friend and having a baby on the way, I was hoping that he would learn to cope without Orga and learn to live a new life. I also thought that Orga's death would be the straw that broke the stoic camel's back and that something in him would snap. Instead, he doesn't really change throughout the series and dies just as he was when the show began.

Despite that, I actually kind of liked Mikazuki as a protagonist. Shounen anime heroes tend to gravitate towards the loud and boisterous end of the personality spectrum or the stoic and brooding end. (Like the difference between Naruto and Sasuke.) Mika was definitely stoic, but not to the robotic extent that Hiro Yui or Setsuna F. Seiei were. His fondness for dates was a nice touch and showed that he took simple pleasures in life, yet he had the demeanor of someone who lived most of his life in an oppressive militaristic environment with little chance of advancement.

Oh, and seeing Barbatos go full out beast-mode and wrecking grunts with that tail whipping around was pretty damn sick. One of the best fights in a Gundam series.

As for the altered status quo at the end, what the hell? Rustal Elion goes out of his way to suppress a revolt against the Seven Stars and then after he wins, he initiates the reforms that he was fighting against? That came out of nowhere. There's a nice theme in there about making peace with one's enemy but it would be nicer if there was some build up or explanation for his actions. Did he simply not want change to happen under someone else's stewardship?

I was hoping that Kudelia would have had more of presence and it felt a little odd to end the series with her narration after she was absent for most of this season. I was also hoping for some development on Almiria's end. What was the point of introducing her as McGillis's child fiancee if nothing came of it?

And speaking of the Bauduins, Gaelio survived. I did not see that coming. As plenty of people have noted, the relationship between him and McGillis echoed the Char and Garma betrayal from the original series. It was sort of refreshing to see the dynamic spun around, if only for a surprise.

Ride's murder of Nobliss Gordon left a bit of a sour taste in an otherwise pleasant epilogue. I guess the writers wanted at least one antagonist to die.

There's plenty of other qualms and niggles and I'm sure that other people will bring them up.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm not sure why Rustal made the deal that happened either. Maybe that compromise was the only way to get peace?

[Kato]

Well... that was... something. But I'll say in general a satisfying ending from my perspective.

Okay, I considered to cite a bunch of stuff but I feel too lazy to sort through things, so just my two cents without quoting questions.


What's good? People are dead. I mean, I don't hate Mika, and I actually kind of liked Akihiro more, but they were the worst offenders when it came to "my life is war". I can't quite agree with Mika being (much) better than Hiro or Setsuna. A little bit, but as with those two, they were all "born" soldiers, presumably, they never knew anything else. Mika took this to the end. He might have had some human characteristics but overall, he was a living weapon. And he died protecting what he cared for. It's not a happy end for him, and the alternative, a life haunted by PTSD most likely, could have also worked, but from the narrative... it was the best ending for him.
Iok died which was... kind of sad. Yeah, he was written horribly but I still felt bad for him. I'm glad Akihiro got his final moment of revenge but... Iok was just the writers tool for a stupid antagonist. He made no sense and that is sad because I feel he could have been much more.

The bad? Some people didn't die. Like Rustal. I'm pretty sure he accepted the changes because he knew it would make HIM president. He's the most powerful man in the world now, not McGillis, which is just what he wanted. And he much more than whatshisface would have deserved a bullet to the head while taking a ****. I can hardly remember what the other guy did, Rustal was just a pretty coldblooded **** and he knew it. I mean, the mafia guy, too, but... I don't know, I hate Rustal more.
Speaking of the scene, Ride not being happy go lucky makes perfectly good sense. Not everyone can just walk away from the things these kids have seen. I'm not happy for Ride but someone had to take that role.

Gaeli and Julia are happy which I am sure makes other people happy. Eh, I like both well enough. And I'm glad Julia is not obsessed with Rustal alone anymore.

Kudelia, Athra and Akatsuki live happily... well, not ever after but for the moment. I'm glad for them. I wonder why they didn't make him call both mommy, though.

Some characters didn't really get much time... like what is left of Naze's girls. Or Gaeli's sister who I think doesn't even show up. So did she kill herself? Did she become a recluse who meets nobody? My feeling is if she was "fine" she'd have been with Gaeli... I guess she really just served to show more of McGillis character over the story. The good and the bad parts.



Overall... I liked the show. I can't quite say why because there certainly were lots of things that could have been better, e.g. I felt many battles were... well, not bad, but there weren't many impressive fights. The fights were well done when they happened, and they tried to include tactics and all but just if I was looking for fun fight scenes I think I'd still go elsewhere. But what we got was pretty.
There were SO MANY CHARACTERS! I don't think I remember half their names, and therefore many were kind of flat. Or not that fleshed out, anyway. But I still felt I liked them, even the ones I can't name anymore. It's just a show where the focus is not entirely on one person but as deserving of Tekkadan many people who contribute, more or less, and I could feel that.
What might be the worst problem, in a show I quite enjoyed... who's our villain? Don't get me wrong, a good show doesn't always need a clear cut villain but here... Mackie? Rustal? Society? Heck, I can hardly root for the people who align themselves with a madman. Whose side am I supposed to be on? Help me, this is too complex for my simple little mind :smalltongue:

[tensai_oni]

Second-handed opinion, because I didn't pick IBO back up and I most likely never will:

Wow. Just, wow. If even half of what I've heard and read of the show is true, then words fail me.

This series might make Gundam AGE look like a masterpiece in comparison. Hell, it might even make Build Fighters Try look halfway decent, but the jury is still out on that one.

Either way I'm glad I didn't waste any more time on this than I did.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

In the end I'm not entirely sure what kind of story they wanted to tell, if indeed there was a theme in all that.

Personally I would have been happier with it ending at season 1. But I suppose they needed to conclude McGillis's plot and flesh out Gjallarhorn and the Seven Stars, which ended up going badly for all the protagonists.

Meta: Perhaps having Tekkadan as a mercenary unit disband and all the members moving on to (seemingly) non-military related things was the writers' idea of a good ending. Except Ride. Considering Orga was shot to death while protecting him I can't really blame the guy. Since they were all children, having them end the series as successful lifelong mercenaries might not appeal to the writers' beliefs (pacifist, so I've heard). McMurdo, who manipulated a rights movement to generate war profits, gets gunned down while taking a dump.

I still don't get Rustal's reforms. The narration seems to imply that the McGillis Fareed incident ended entirely in his and Gjallarhorn's favor and he wanted to retain the status quo anyway. I'm sure he could have thought of some way to cover for the lost noble families? And then democracy outta nowhere. Although it's one with him in charge, having spun himself into a public hero, which was probably the point. Meta: some way of giving McGillis the posthumous victory? The man was shaped very much by the circumstances of his life, and I'm not sure he would have made a good leader had he succeeded. But having Rustal as the agent of this change is still weird.

If you think about it. The prime mover of the plot was Kudelia. If it wasn't for her movement she would never have hired CGS, leading directly to Gjallarhorn's attack and the adults using third group as a living shield, which wouldn't have forced Orga's hand into rebelling against them and taking over the company. McGillis might not have seen the opportunity to advance his own schemes.

I give the series three and a half stars. I'm okay with depressing/bittersweet stories where people get killed off pointlessly, if it establishes itself as such in the early moments, which I think the show did. Maybe a bit in your face with the human rights abuses and child soldiers (not just child soldiers, but child soldiers suffering violent deaths), but I find that an interesting direction for a giant robot series.

[Kato]

Second-handed opinion, because I didn't pick IBO back up and I most likely never will:

Wow. Just, wow. If even half of what I've heard and read of the show is true, then words fail me.

This series might make Gundam AGE look like a masterpiece in comparison. Hell, it might even make Build Fighters Try look halfway decent, but the jury is still out on that one.

Either way I'm glad I didn't waste any more time on this than I did.
Now I'd really love to hear your reasoning behind that.
I mean, yeah, you said AGE (which I think is not quite as bad as people claim) and not Reconguista but I'm still curious what you heard that makes you think so.

[t209]

Now I'd really love to hear your reasoning behind that.
I mean, yeah, you said AGE (which I think is not quite as bad as people claim) and not Reconguista but I'm still curious what you heard that makes you think so.
A. Being the worst, or potential wasted (though it is quite jarring to see somewhat kid friendly design on bleak theme).
B. Bleakness scale
C. G-reco being so bad that it never existed.
You know I made a mistake in the past for watching and liking Gundam Seed Destiny first since it was only broadcasting show on Burma/Myanmar tv and never knew Seed until later.
Though I do remember Mu sacrificing his life and Flay blasted by Rau after I did research on the small scenes I remember.
Still I hear that Super Robot Wars did better. I just imagine Kamille chewing out Shinn for "wait, You came to Plant as refugee and decided to join military, do the same thing again, and lap dog to Durandal?". Or have Shinn as Judau Ashta in alternate timeline where his family (at least his sister) survived.

[tensai_oni]

Now I'd really love to hear your reasoning behind that.
I mean, yeah, you said AGE (which I think is not quite as bad as people claim) and not Reconguista but I'm still curious what you heard that makes you think so.

Okay, first of all - IBO doesn't make G-Reco look good.

Reality and good taste make G-Reco look good. And I know a lot of people disagree but a lot of people also liked SEED, Unicorn and GBF Try, and that's just from Gundam franchises. On the other hand, people like Urobuchi do agree that G-Reco makes you genki and is a worthwhile watch.

I already criticized S1 IBO for bad storytelling and curbstomp fights with no tension. From what I hear, that doesn't change. The only thing that changes is that the Mary Sue ball gets passed to the antagonists instead. "Good guys wreck bad guys left and right effortlessly" turns into "bad guys wreck good guys left and right effortlessly". Beautiful.

Also the sheer pointlessness of the ending would be hilarious if it wasn't horrible.



Still I hear that Super Robot Wars did better. I just imagine Kamille chewing out Shinn for "wait, You came to Plant as refugee and decided to join military, do the same thing again, and lap dog to Durandal?". Or have Shinn as Judau Ashta in alternate timeline where his family (at least his sister) survived.

Here's how SRW handles SEED Destiny plot:

SRW Z - Shinn gets a lot of positive character development through his interactions with Kamille and Setsuko (the selectable original protagonist). There is an option not to join with Durandal because Shinn realizes his folly. Kira gets called out for his sanctimoniousness. Neo decides to take responsibility of his actions as Neo, instead of dropping the identity to turn back into Mwu and pretend nothing happened.

SRW K - mostly like canon. SRW K is not a very good game.

SRW L - a lot of bad blood gets avoided because better handling of the Berlin situation means Stella doesn't die. This leads to a much warmer relationship between Shinn and Kira who basically team up to fight against other canons' bad guys. In the end even Durandal gets a sympathetic treatment with far more realistic goals and motivations.

SRW UX - post-canon, Shinn plays the older brother/mentor role for the Fafner kids while slowly getting over his own hang ups. It's pretty amazing.

I have no idea how V handled it.

[Kato]

Okay, first of all - IBO doesn't make G-Reco look good.

Reality and good taste make G-Reco look good. And I know a lot of people disagree but a lot of people also liked SEED, Unicorn and GBF Try, and that's just from Gundam franchises. On the other hand, people like Urobuchi do agree that G-Reco makes you genki and is a worthwhile watch.

I already criticized S1 IBO for bad storytelling and curbstomp fights with no tension. From what I hear, that doesn't change. The only thing that changes is that the Mary Sue ball gets passed to the antagonists instead. "Good guys wreck bad guys left and right effortlessly" turns into "bad guys wreck good guys left and right effortlessly". Beautiful.

Also the sheer pointlessness of the ending would be hilarious if it wasn't horrible.


Uhm... I never said the first bit?

Uuuuuuuuuuhm... what? I didn't ask what other shows you like or dislike but what you like about Reco. I mean, I'm not gonna claim it's not kind of genki in its... hm.. I want to say kid-friendly but it feels like it could be taken as an insult which it is not... well, I'll stick to kind-friendly mecha designs. And that it's in general not "dark". But the plot is still all over the place and sometimes it feels like half an episode is missing or the writer just forgot about something and frankly it's hard for me to remember details because that's how forgettable it was. And no, I don't mean to insult your taste, I'd just like a more elaborate answer than what you gave me.

Bad storytelling is always a bit subjective but I can't see how you'd criticize IBO for curb stomp battles more than other shows. Yes, Mika is a very capable fighter but Mika is not the only one doing things. Some people are better than others and while this might be a bit exaggerated there I feel like most not only Gundam but mecha or even other action shows kind of follow the rule that a "main character" is allowed to take out goons. There'd be few shows where such things don't happen.
And second season really is not just a reverse of it. It's fair fights, which are sometimes won by one side and sometimes by the other. And sometimes aren't conclusive. So... Yeah, Tekkadan wins probably more often than it loses without counting but... someone has to be better.

What? :smallconfused:

[tensai_oni]

I don't know why you're so confused. From your post I took a pretty clear message that:

1. You want me to explain why I think IBO makes AGE look good, which I did (by providing reasons why IBO is bad)
2. You consider G-Reco to be a bad series (which I disagreed with, without providing reasons but then that wasn't the point of the post, it's after all an IBO thread and not a G-Reco one)

Still if you want me to explain why G-Reco is a good show, here we go:
It's commentary on how people in power will manipulate the way facts are seen, by showing objective truths in a subjective light to color opinion of ordinary folks.
It's got some really nicely animated fights, and inventive use of equipment not meant for combat.
It's got actually capable female characters, including many female pilots, who actually achieve things and kick ass instead of being there as background filler or to job/die for drama. This is still a rarity in mecha anime.
It's got fun and likeable characters in general. Klim Nick is the best one-person Team Rocket.
It doesn't look down on the viewer. A lot of anime really like to beat you over the head, going "hey stupid! This conversation that is going on right now, this scene? It's important so pay attention, and we'll flash it back for you if you didn't". In most extreme cases this turns into characters spoonfeeding relevant exposition en masse, which is very grating and which IBO did a lot. G-Reco doesn't do that at all. Kudos to Tomino for still having faith in his audience to pay attention. Of course a lot of peoples' reactions to G-Reco was that it was "hard to follow" and "confusing" so maybe that faith was misplaced.
In general, G-Reco continues Turn A Gundam's trend of showing people who didn't do war in a long time trying to do war, and not being very good at it.

[Kato]

I don't know why you're so confused. From your post I took a pretty clear message that:

1. You want me to explain why I think IBO makes AGE look good, which I did (by providing reasons why IBO is bad)
2. You consider G-Reco to be a bad series (which I disagreed with, without providing reasons but then that wasn't the point of the post, it's after all an IBO thread and not a G-Reco one)

Uhm, unless you mistyped G-Reco when you meant to say AGE, you didn't say a single word about the latter in your last post. :smallconfused: But yes, you said why you consider IBO bad. With points I can't quite follow, but taste is subjective. (Then again, you said you didn't follow the second season, so...)
You did give arguments for why you consider G-Reco good, or at least reasons why it's not bad based on other people considering it bad and certain people considering it good. I asked because I was curious since from the few people I've talked to about it most considered it not good.
And it's not like any other thread has ever drifted far wider from its original subject... discussing another Gundam show in the IBO thread, the horror :smallbiggrin:



Still if you want me to explain why G-Reco is a good show, here we go:
[...]It doesn't look down on the viewer. A lot of anime really like to beat you over the head, going "hey stupid! This conversation that is going on right now, this scene? It's important so pay attention, and we'll flash it back for you if you didn't". In most extreme cases this turns into characters spoonfeeding relevant exposition en masse, which is very grating and which IBO did a lot. G-Reco doesn't do that at all. Kudos to Tomino for still having faith in his audience to pay attention. Of course a lot of peoples' reactions to G-Reco was that it was "hard to follow" and "confusing" so maybe that faith was misplaced.
In general, G-Reco continues Turn A Gundam's trend of showing people who didn't do war in a long time trying to do war, and not being very good at it.
Now, if I didn't know that Playgrounders are above that, I'd guess this was meant as an underhanded insult aimed at me :smalltongue: I don't think I need exposition spoon fed to me but if characters suddenly have knowledge they have no reason to have, there's either a scene missing where they get it or the writers are screwing with me.
I'm going to trust you on the other points. While I can vaguely remember the first bit and that there... were female pilots, I can't vouch for any of them because my interest in the show was so small I honestly can not remember one name. I know this is not a good basis to debate a show, I just mean to say it's impact on me was pretty weak, sad as that is. But then maybe I should watch it again with a more open mind.

[Hunter Noventa]

Here's how SRW handles SEED Destiny plot:

SRW Z - Shinn gets a lot of positive character development through his interactions with Kamille and Setsuko (the selectable original protagonist). There is an option not to join with Durandal because Shinn realizes his folly. Kira gets called out for his sanctimoniousness. Neo decides to take responsibility of his actions as Neo, instead of dropping the identity to turn back into Mwu and pretend nothing happened.

SRW K - mostly like canon. SRW K is not a very good game.

SRW L - a lot of bad blood gets avoided because better handling of the Berlin situation means Stella doesn't die. This leads to a much warmer relationship between Shinn and Kira who basically team up to fight against other canons' bad guys. In the end even Durandal gets a sympathetic treatment with far more realistic goals and motivations.

SRW UX - post-canon, Shinn plays the older brother/mentor role for the Fafner kids while slowly getting over his own hang ups. It's pretty amazing.

I have no idea how V handled it.

V is entirely post-series for SEED Destiny, and mostly makes jokes about Athrun being fawned over by the girls from Cross Ange. I haven't finished the game, but I've seen that much.

[t209]

http://i.imgur.com/yuTQAis.jpg
Well, sorry, Lafter. Thought you died from giant drill (so how did she survive that? Or was it just a scratch).
Then, got shot at the store.
I just thought of something, I kinda want Shinn to have his own happy ending with his family and possibly Stella in Build Fighter. And Nicol as a happy pianist with two parents who tried and lost Gundam spars at one point. :smallfrown: