Gestalt Monk//Ninja, need advice

[ErebusVonMori]

Looking at creating a level 10 monk//ninja. Now so far I'm looking at Fighter2/Monk 5/Tattoed Monk3(White Mask and Chrysanthemum)// Ninja 7/Rogue1/Assassin1/Fighter1 with the intended combo being the combination of Great Cleave and Spring Attack which if I read my RAW right can actually be moved from target to target as only the 5-ft step is specifically disqualified and using sneak attack/sudden strike to carve through mook hoardes in a single round, potentially ending the round out of sight.

Now this uses 6 feats and I want to use the rest to boost damage to make it more likely my combo will proc, can anyone advise? Also if there are prestige classes that would help please tell me.

Ideally I'd fit Leadership in if possible for my own little ninja order but it's not essential.

[thoroughlyS]

After doing some research and tooling with some concepts, I have some recommendations for your build.

The first think we need to get out of the way is how Gestalt Characters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) actually work. You'll see people online describing it in terms of two "tracks" when that is not how it is designed at all. It boils down to you advancing two classes at each level and taking all the good parts of them. It is for this reason that the "Fighter 1" at the tail end of your build actually does nothing for you, because it is really Fighter 3.

Now that that's out of the way, let's get to the concept. Your end goal is Great Cleave + Spring Attack + a fistful of dice. With that in mind Rogue//Martial Monk 2->Rogue//Scout 3->Rogue//Tattooed Monk 5 (with Swift Ambusher) seems like a good base. You end up with the following:

+5d6 Sneak Attack(Rogue 10)
1d8 unarmed damage, WIS +1 to AC, +20 ft. speed (Monk 2 + Tattooed Monk 5)
+4d6 and +3 AC skirmish (Scout 3 + Rogue 10)
Great Cleave and Spring Attack as bonus feats (Martial Monk 2)
3 tattoos (Tattooed Monk 5)

Now, there are a few cheesy tricks in this build - as I'm sure you can see. Most importantly is the trickery with Martial Monk. Martial Monk (Dragon 310 p.45) let's you choose Fighter Bonus Feats as Monk Bonus Feats for the price of 1 skill point per level (which you replace with Rogue's skill progression anyway). There is some debate as to whether you must meet the prerequisites of the bonus feats or not, so ask your DM. If you have to meet the prerequisites, you can still nab Dodge + Mobility or Power Attack + Cleave. That first one is explicitly legal using one of the Monk Fighting Styles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les).
The second bit of trickery is with Swift Ambusher (Complete Scoundrel p.81). Right now, I'm calculating Skirmish by allowing this build to "double dip" for 3 of those levels. A much more sensible solution is to say that Rogue//Scout only adds once, so you have Skirmish as a 10th level Scout instead (+3d6 and +2 AC). This is still a respectable boost.

Feats
For this portion, I'm going to assume your DM says no to bonus Great Cleave and Spring Attack. I'm also going to assume two Flaws.
LevelFeatBonus Feat
1stPower AttackImproved Unarmed Strike(Monk), Dodge(Monk), Endurance(Flaw), Improved Grapple(Flaw)
2nd—Mobility(Monk)
3rdCleave—
4th——
5th——
6thSwift Ambusher—
7th——
8th——
9thGreat Cleave—
10th—Spring Attack(Rogue)
Alternative Class Features
My last bit of advise is to trade away as many overlapping class features as you can. This way you can expand your repertoire at no additional cost. Of great note is trading the Monk's Evasion (which doesn't stack with the Rogue's) for Invisible Fist (Exemplars of Evil p.21) which let's you go invisible every 4 rounds. The wording of the ability doesn't mention the spell, so you may be able to attack and retain this benefit (ask your DM).

[ErebusVonMori]

Thank you for the help but Dragon Magazine is likely disallowed in this game, and I was dearly hoping to keep Ninja as part of the gestalt, however the wasted fighter level is definitely important and gratefully noted, I need a level of a class that will give me a bonus feat or a feat that's required for the combo, any suggestions?

However Cobra Fighting Style is absolutely perfect, all three feats are ones I need! Thank you so much for pointing that out, I've never really looked through the variant classes before.

Currently looking at Fighter1/Monk 6(Cobra Style)/Tattoed Monk3(White Mask and Chrysanthemum)// Ninja 7/Rogue1/Assassin1/Fighter1, now that leaves me with three feats spare with which to stack up damage, two if I take leadership, so what feats give me either a greater chance to hit or more damage? Note every attack in the Flurry benefits from sneak attack and sudden strike.

[thoroughlyS]

Thank you for the help but Dragon Magazine is likely disallowed in this game, and I was dearly hoping to keep Ninja as part of the gestalt, however the wasted fighter level is definitely important and gratefully noted, I need a level of a class that will give me a bonus feat or a feat that's required for the combo, any suggestions?
The only thing I mentioned from Dragon Magazine was Martial Monk, so changing it to Cobra Strike Fighting Style (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cobraStrike) (Unearthed Arcana p.52) allows you to use the feat progression in my previous post anyway (edited to swap how you get each chain).
Why do you want to take the Ninja class specifically? Remember, you don't have to be a Samurai to be a samurai. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html) Rogue is widely regarded as superior to ninja, even just based on the difference between sneak attack and sudden strike. There is also no feat that allows you to progress skirmish with ninja levels. All around, it is a worse trade.

Currently looking at Fighter1/Monk 6(Cobra Style)/Tattoed Monk3(White Mask and Chrysanthemum)// Ninja 7/Rogue1/Assassin1/Fighter1, now that leaves me with three feats spare with which to stack up damage, two if I take leadership, so what feats give me either a greater chance to hit or more damage? Note every attack in the Flurry benefits from sneak attack and sudden strike.
I recommend Snap Kick (Tome of Battle p.32). It's basically another flurry attack. It does have the to-hit penalty, so be careful with it. Googling "3.5 Monk Handbook" and "3.5 Rogue/Ninja Handbook" should get you a good list of useful stuff.

[Jack_Simth]

The first think we need to get out of the way is how Gestalt Characters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) actually work. You'll see people online describing it in terms of two "tracks" when that is not how it is designed at all.
True, but at the same time, it's a useful way of thinking about it.

It boils down to you advancing two classes at each level and taking all the good parts of them. It is for this reason that the "Fighter 1" at the tail end of your build actually does nothing for you, because it is really Fighter 3.
... as long as you don't confuse yourself, which the OP definitely did.

As to the specific build:
You know your table better than I do, but the build is likely to have problems keeping up as the game wears on. I can give you General (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20231049&postcount=13) gestalt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15941647&postcount=5) advice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?512729-Optimized-gestalt-druid-swordsage), but the big thing here is power curves. A Ninja//Monk is only going to be slightly better than just a ninja; you're liable to be mid-range for basically all of your career... meanwhile, the bloke who went with a simple Ninja//Druid is very liable to wreck at least as much face as your character right now, and later have a LOT of very useful buffs.

[Dagroth]

The reason Swift Hunter (and the like) should not be allowed in a Gestalt build:

Ranger 20//Scout 20.

'Nuff said.

[thoroughlyS]

The reason Swift Hunter (and the like) should not be allowed in a Gestalt build:

Ranger 20//Scout 20.

'Nuff said.
That's why I suggest saying "double dipping" doesn't work. It makes more sense in real logic and D&D logic, because most things don't stack with themselves. Why would counting one level stack with itself?

[ErebusVonMori]

Well Ninja basically gives me parkour as a class feature, and that fits the flavour of what I have in mind. Basically leap down invisible, drop the cheese, end the round back up and out of sight.

And it isn't stacking with itself, the two parts of the gestalt stack with the Ascetic Stalker feat, a type of interaction that isn't covered in the RAW and as it isn't explicitly forbidden then it's implicitly allowed.

[thoroughlyS]

Well Ninja basically gives me parkour as a class feature, and that fits the flavour of what I have in mind. Basically leap down invisible, drop the cheese, end the round back up and out of sight.
You can trade the Scout's Fast Movement for Dungeon Specialist (Player's Handbook II p.59), which gives you a climb speed equal to half your base land speed. This gets improved by the speed bonus from monk (just like every other speed).Combined with the Invisible Fist ACF I talked about earlier, you have everything you want.

and as it isn't explicitly forbidden then it's implicitly allowed.
That is not how rules work. Especially in this game. If there is no rule that says you can do something, then you can't.

[ErebusVonMori]

It does when the RAW has an entire section of where it doesn't stack, and it isn't in there. When there's actually a section saying interactions don't work then any interactions not in that list are implied heavily to be acceptable

[thoroughlyS]

It does when the RAW has an entire section of where it doesn't stack, and it isn't in there. When there's actually a section saying interactions don't work then any interactions not in that list are implied heavily to be acceptable
Oh, I agree with you in this instance; as a general statement, that is the wrong way to read rules.