An Exotic Weapon Feat- Tell me if this is balanced

[Haldir]

My player wants to use a Ringblade, ala Tira from Soul Calibur games. I'm not personally familiar with the franchise, but I allowed it as a 2D6 heavy weapon with which she does a kind of attack dance.

Said player, however, has been using her shortswords and dual wielding whenever she needs to make a weapon attack, which isn't often as she's a very well built Bard of the Lore school, because she wants two attacks.

So, if I make a feat that applies the extra attack benefit of Polearm Master and maybe gives her a rider bonus to AC (I'm thinking Proficiency to AC in any round she's dancing?) would that be too powerful? As a Bard, her AC is pretty abysmal, and I want the feat to be rewarding and effective.

Any thoughts?

(Posting here instead of in homebrew, because I need your system knowledge mastery.)

[MadBear]

My player wants to use a Ringblade, ala Tira from Soul Calibur games. I'm not personally familiar with the franchise, but I allowed it as a 2D6 heavy weapon with which she does a kind of attack dance.

Said player, however, has been using her shortswords and dual wielding whenever she needs to make a weapon attack, which isn't often as she's a very well built Bard of the Lore school, because she wants two attacks.

So, if I make a feat that applies the extra attack benefit of Polearm Master and maybe gives her a rider bonus to AC (I'm thinking Proficiency to AC in any round she's dancing?) would that be too powerful? As a Bard, her AC is pretty abysmal, and I want the feat to be rewarding and effective.

Any thoughts?

(Posting here instead of in homebrew, because I need your system knowledge mastery.)

I think it'd be fine for this PC, but you might want to make it clear, it's not just available to anyone.

[N810]

... So she wants a pole dancing feat..? :smallamused:

[Haldir]

... So she wants a pole dancing feat..? :smallamused:

She took her skill mastery in Performance and has 20 charisma. I don't even want to try and calculate the tips she'd get. :smalleek:

[BiPolar]

My player wants to use a Ringblade, ala Tira from Soul Calibur games. I'm not personally familiar with the franchise, but I allowed it as a 2D6 heavy weapon with which she does a kind of attack dance.

Said player, however, has been using her shortswords and dual wielding whenever she needs to make a weapon attack, which isn't often as she's a very well built Bard of the Lore school, because she wants two attacks.

So, if I make a feat that applies the extra attack benefit of Polearm Master and maybe gives her a rider bonus to AC (I'm thinking Proficiency to AC in any round she's dancing?) would that be too powerful? As a Bard, her AC is pretty abysmal, and I want the feat to be rewarding and effective.

Any thoughts?

(Posting here instead of in homebrew, because I need your system knowledge mastery.)

It seems like that's getting awfully powerful. You're basically combining the polearm feat with the (possibly) more then what a Bladesinger gets for their AC boost.

If she's a Valor (not lore, right) Bard, then she should be built for better than abysmal AC as she should be melee focused if she's been wielding short swords, too.

Something sounds off in this build and throwing more homebrew at it doesn't seem like the right answer. However, if she wants the blade and a boost, the Polearm Master feat would be a neat way to apply something different, but the AC boost doesn't and should't be there.

[Haldir]

She is a Lore Bard.

[Beelzebubba]

Why not just use existing weapons/damage/feats mechanics but just have the weapon itself just be a special effect?

Dual Weilder works.

Give it the same attack and damage as weapons she could normally use.

Problem solved with fluff.

[BiPolar]

She is a Lore Bard.
Then where is she getting a 2nd attack?

[Haldir]

:smallsigh: A bonus action, like every character who uses two weapons and/or the polearm master feat.

[BiPolar]

:smallsigh: A bonus action, like every character who uses two weapons and/or the polearm master feat.

:P - gotcha. Well, I'm not sure what to say then. She's already chosen NOT to go the melee path and get all the goodies that Lore gets you AND she wants to damage in melee and get those goodies, too? I'd call shenanigans on that weapon request. If you want to give the weapon polearm master abilities in 5' range I think that's a very fair option (remember, it's just d4 on the opposite end with no modifier)

And she's nerfing her bardliness with using her bonus action for attacks and not inspiration die, etc? WHy'd she go bard?

[Haldir]

Why not just use existing weapons/damage/feats mechanics but just have the weapon itself just be a special effect?

Dual Weilder works.

Give it the same attack and damage as weapons she could normally use.

Problem solved with fluff.

If I simply let her dual wield with it, she'll be doing 4D6 + 3 (+6 if she takes that feat) which isn't a great solution as she will be on par with my fighters and outclassing my Warlock, albeit at melee range.

If, however, I give her something like polearm master, I pretty much can't go wrong. Think about the extra OA that this feat gives, it's a 100% increase in damage output against enemies that are moving around. That's insanely powerful.


:P - gotcha. Well, I'm not sure what to say then. She's already chosen NOT to go the melee path and get all the goodies that Lore gets you AND she wants to damage in melee and get those goodies, too? I'd call shenanigans on that weapon request. If you want to give the weapon polearm master abilities in 5' range I think that's a very fair option (remember, it's just d4 on the opposite end with no modifier)

And she's nerfing her bardliness with using her bonus action for attacks and not inspiration die, etc? WHy'd she go bard?

Well, the way I'm considering doing it kinda goes into the whole Bard niche. Any round she gained benefits from the Ringblade is a round she can't cast, and she'll be weaker than my fighters in her "dance mode." She honestly spends most of the time using her actions for spells, but she has this cool weapon, and if she wants to spend an ASI on it, I see no reason not to let her.

[BiPolar]

If I simply let her dual wield with it, she'll be doing 4D6 + 3 (+6 if she takes that feat) which isn't a great solution as she will be on par with my fighters and outclassing my Warlock, albeit at melee range.

If, however, I give her something like polearm master, I pretty much can't go wrong. Think about the extra OA that this feat gives, it's a 100% increase in damage output against enemies that are moving around. That's insanely powerful.



Well, the way I'm considering doing it kinda goes into the whole Bard niche. Any round she gained benefits from the Ringblade is a round she can't cast, and she'll be weaker than my fighters in her "dance mode." She honestly spends most of the time using her actions for spells, but she has this cool weapon, and if she wants to spend an ASI on it, I see no reason not to let her.

Except that the feat is allowing her to be a bard AND a fighter. And she could be holding concentration on her spell (and probably will be). It seems like you are less asking for opinion and more just trying to find approval. But if you do do it, maybe offer the standard polearm feat at one asi and the dancing feat as the next asi.

Or say you can't concentrate on spells when using this intense weapon.

[joaber]

The weapon is a 2d6, same thing as greatsword, lore bards shoudn't even have proficiecy with that weapon. Polearm is d10 +d4, and lore bard don't have proficiency in that too, so best could be was d8 + d4, no ac bonus.
The bonus action damage is 2d6 too?
And + a giant AC bonus? Don't even need to spend reaction like polearm master feat, so she can cutting word freely? Lore bards don't need a giant AC, first because they aren't tankers, second they have cutting words.
Man, this is obviously unbalanced.
A fighter doesn't have anything tha lore bards have, why a lore bard should be compared with fighter at weapon damage? Let she take spirit guardians at lvl 6 and you'll see with that weapon and AC how she will easily surpass fighter in everything.

[Strill]

Honestly, you should tell her that if she wanted to use the fancy weapon, she should've taken College of Valor.

[BiPolar]

The weapon is a 2d6, same thing as greatsword, lore bards shoudn't even have proficiecy with that weapon. Polearm is d10 +d4, and lore bard don't have proficiency in that too, so best could be was d8 + d4, no ac bonus.
The bonus action damage is 2d6 too?
And + a giant AC bonus? Don't even need to spend reaction like polearm master feat, so she can cutting word freely? Lore bards don't need a giant AC, first because they aren't tankers, second they have cutting words.
Man, this is obviously unbalanced.
A fighter doesn't have anything tha lore bards have, why a lore bard should be compared with fighter at weapon damage? Let she take spirit guardians at lvl 6 and you'll see with that weapon and AC how she will easily surpass fighter in everything.

This is why I was suggesting the following:
ASI 1: Grant proficiency in this special weapon with the ability to use bonus action to make another attack with a d4 damage die. Do NOT grant the OA bullet point (you have traded the OA for proficiency and this is NOT an actual polearm). The choice to use their bonus action for another attack rather than bardic inspiration is trade-off as well.

ASI 2: Begin dance and add Str/Dex modifier to the AC. Each round you must declare if you are dancing or not. Dancing requires concentration and you can not concentrate on spells simultaneously. You can not do any spellcasting when dancing.

[Joe the Rat]

I actually had to look this one up. Weaponized hula hoop. Got it.

As you are talking about burning a feat for access, having it do a little extra is in order. The dual wielder feat would let you use two 1d8 weapons, and have a +1 to AC. I think "proficiency in super death aerobee", as a 1d8 weapon with bonus action for 2nd 1d8 attack, +1 AC while wielding" could work.
This would also open the door to make it a finesse weapon, if you would so choose ( and make her less MAD). You could give the weapon a special property as counting as two one-handed weapons, letting you access defensive duelist for the proficiency to AC reaction.
Alternatively, drop the always on AC bonus from DW, and have the option to use your bonus action to add +2 to your armor class - decide between full offense (2 attacks), guarded offense (1 attack, AC bonus), or full defense (dodge action).

[BiPolar]

I actually had to look this one up. Weaponized hula hoop. Got it.

As you are talking about burning a feat for access, having it do a little extra is in order. The dual wielder feat would let you use two 1d8 weapons, and have a +1 to AC. I think "proficiency in super death aerobee", as a 1d8 weapon with bonus action for 2nd 1d8 attack, +1 AC while wielding" could work.
This would also open the door to make it a finesse weapon, if you would so choose ( and make her less MAD). You could give the weapon a special property as counting as two one-handed weapons, letting you access defensive duelist for the proficiency to AC reaction.
Alternatively, drop the always on AC bonus from DW, and have the option to use your bonus action to add +2 to your armor class - decide between full offense (2 attacks), guarded offense (1 attack, AC bonus), or full defense (dodge action).

That's an interesting idea, too. However, granting 1d8 as the damage is a big deal. Allowing this grants the following that dual-wielder does not:
1)proficiency in a weapon-type bard's aren't proficient in (which is it's own feat)
2)Increasing damage beyond what light weapons do (which are 1d6)

To make it more equal, either make it a 1d6 plus bonus action 1d4 (just like polearm), and +1 AC.

If you're looking for more, I still like my suggestion above.

[Joe the Rat]

Weapon proficiency in anything is a feat away... Four things, actually. Proficiency in one weapon, plus some benefits of another feat only usable with that weapon seems reasonable as a feat.

If you prefer the polearm route, do at least 1d8/1d4 - which is what a quarterstaff would do in this case.

[BiPolar]

Weapon proficiency in anything is a feat away... Four things, actually. Proficiency in one weapon, plus some benefits of another feat only usable with that weapon seems reasonable as a feat.
Yes, so in one feat you are giving the following feat effects:
1)Dual Wielder (add modifier to damage, +1 AC, 1d8 weapons)
2)Weapon Master

Even if you go with more of the dual-wielding than polearm, you're still granting 2 feats for the price of one.


If you prefer the polearm route, do at least 1d8/1d4 - which is what a quarterstaff would do in this case.
Agreed, I'd even allow the 2d6 damage on the first strike as planned with the 1d4 on the 2nd.

[Joe the Rat]

Yes, so in one feat you are giving the following feat effects:
1)Dual Wielder (add modifier to damage, +1 AC, 1d8 weapons)
2)Weapon Master

Even if you go with more of the dual-wielding than polearm, you're still granting 2 feats for the price of one.
Technically it's 1/8 of one feat (one weapon, not 4, and no stat bonus), and... 6/7? of another (you don't get the draw 2, but that's a minor feature).

[BiPolar]

Technically it's 1/8 of one feat (one weapon, not 4, and no stat bonus), and... 6/7? of another (you don't get the draw 2, but that's a minor feature).

Even if you reduce it to those parts, you are still effectively granting a lot more than just a feat does. I kinda see the logic here, but it just doesn't feel right to give so much to allow a Lore Bard to do something that it really isn't built to do. THis is turning the spellcasting lore bard machine into a fighting machine - effectively bridging lore and valor. And that's a big deal, and there should be a big cost.

[Strill]

Even if you reduce it to those parts, you are still effectively granting a lot more than just a feat does. I kinda see the logic here, but it just doesn't feel right to give so much to allow a Lore Bard to do something that it really isn't built to do. THis is turning the spellcasting lore bard machine into a fighting machine - effectively bridging lore and valor. And that's a big deal, and there should be a big cost.

A "Fighting machine"? C'mon man look at the damn math. OP is already dual wielding shortswords for two attacks at 1d6 each. boosting the dice up to d8 is barely anything for a class that doesn't get Extra Attack, and that's on top of not being able to use Bardic Inspiration.

You're spending a feat to turn a terrible option into a bad option. I don't see why this steps on anyone's toes.

[blurneko]

My player wants to use a Ringblade, ala Tira from Soul Calibur games. I'm not personally familiar with the franchise, but I allowed it as a 2D6 heavy weapon with which she does a kind of attack dance.

Said player, however, has been using her shortswords and dual wielding whenever she needs to make a weapon attack, which isn't often as she's a very well built Bard of the Lore school, because she wants two attacks.

So, if I make a feat that applies the extra attack benefit of Polearm Master and maybe gives her a rider bonus to AC (I'm thinking Proficiency to AC in any round she's dancing?) would that be too powerful? As a Bard, her AC is pretty abysmal, and I want the feat to be rewarding and effective.


I would rather not give the +1AC. Bards are not meant to be very tanky and require multi-classing or the armor feats to get higher AC. I know it may seem fun to make your player stronger but do care about balance. Bards are full-spellcasters have have great utility with their magic already.

To be clear, the feat allows 2d6+DEX and a bonus action 1d4+DEX?
That is more than any RAW Lore Bard can do with melee attacks given that they do not have martial proficiency nor are there any heavy Finesse weapons. That being said, I would allow it for that character alone. I don't think it will break things too much. In fact, since you are using 'Polearm Master' as a base, I say include the ability to make opportunity attacks to enemies entering your reach as well. That way, it is effectively 'Polearm Master' but with Ringblade.

[Arnie82]

If they are burning a feat to do a little more damage in melee, just have them take magic initiate. Pick sorcerer, booming blade, and green flame blade, and any spell they want. This would allow scaling extra damage and you don't even need the special weapon. A level 1 dip in sorcerer or warlock works as well.

[BiPolar]

If they are burning a feat to do a little more damage in melee, just have them take magic initiate. Pick sorcerer, booming blade, and green flame blade, and any spell they want. This would allow scaling extra damage and you don't even need the special weapon. A level 1 dip in sorcerer or warlock works as well.

I think more damage in melee is part of it, but they also really want to wield that weapon. Haldir is trying to figure out how to make that work without giving too much.

[Spectre9000]

I think the solution is for you to look up Chakrams. Her chosen weapon is a two handed version of them. Chakrams can be used as light weapons with lets say a 1d6 and have the thrown property. This would give the flair for the character and still be effective within the current rules system. When the Chakrams have been thrown the player can use the Ring Blade as a main weapon.


Incidentally, the Ring Blade can be made more powerful with Great Weapon Master(feat) and Great Weapon Fighting(Fighting Style) if the player really wants to focus this weapon. The player can get the feat from an ASI and the fighting style from a NPC after training with it for some amount of time if you wish.

If the character truly wishes two attacks with that weapon, the character needs to multi-class into something that gives Extra Attack as a class feature. Extra Attack is a defining feature for all martial classes.

Additionally, as a Lore Bard, the player can pick up Haste and/or Green-Flame Blade/Booming Blade to have the real melee synergy they're possibly looking for. You could also give the player a magic item that grants the effects of Haste, naturally requiring Attunement with limited uses.

[Mhl7]

Any thoughts?


Call it a longsword (even if it has extra damage) so she can grab the Dual Wielder feat (but not the fighting style) to use a second longsword in her offhand (as already suggested). In this way her damage with action + bonus action is 2d6 + 1d8 + STR which is only 2,5 points in average above a normal bard dualwielding normal longswords. This won't break anything and the boost is already there anyway, since you let her use a 2d6 weapon with which no bard is proficient.

What you suggest, especially the the AC boost is in my opinion too strong.

[Vogonjeltz]

My player wants to use a Ringblade, ala Tira from Soul Calibur games. I'm not personally familiar with the franchise, but I allowed it as a 2D6 heavy weapon with which she does a kind of attack dance.

Said player, however, has been using her shortswords and dual wielding whenever she needs to make a weapon attack, which isn't often as she's a very well built Bard of the Lore school, because she wants two attacks.

So, if I make a feat that applies the extra attack benefit of Polearm Master and maybe gives her a rider bonus to AC (I'm thinking Proficiency to AC in any round she's dancing?) would that be too powerful? As a Bard, her AC is pretty abysmal, and I want the feat to be rewarding and effective.

Any thoughts?

(Posting here instead of in homebrew, because I need your system knowledge mastery.)

Unlike you I am familiar with the franchise.

Just make it a Quarterstaff that deals slashing damage (so it would be PAM eligible in the same way as the staff, for the bonus action).

Then you don't even have to make a new feat and it helps the player for when/if they decide to change up the weapons.

Also to address the question in the subject line, this would be balanced whereas the original idea you presented was not.