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8wGremlin
2017-03-20, 05:43 PM
Artificer (gunsmith) 1st level gains




At 1st level, you forge a deadly firearm using a combination of arcane magic and your knowledge of engineering and metallurgy. This firearm is called a Thunder Cannon. It is a ferocious weapon that fires leaden bullets that can punch through armor with ease.


You are proficient with the Thunder Cannon. The firearm is a two-handed ranged weapon that deals 2d6 piercing damage. Its normal range is 150 feet, and its maximum range if 500 feet. Once fired, it must be reloaded as a bonus action.
If you lose your Thunder Cannon, you can create a new one over the course of three days of work (eight hours each day) by expending 100 gp worth of metal and other raw materials.


Mystic 1st level (Immortal or Nomad) gains the following






Nomad Discipline
You imbue a ranged weapon with a strange semblance of sentience, allowing it to unerringly find its mark.


Psychic Focus. While you are focused on this discipline, any attack roll you make for a ranged weapon attack ignores disadvantage. If disadvantage would normally apply to the roll, that roll also can’t benefit from advantage.


Speed Dart (1–7 psi). As a bonus action, you imbue one ranged weapon you hold with psionic power. The next attack you make with it that hits before the end of the current turn deals an extra 1d10 psychic damage per psi point spent.


Seeking Missile (2 psi). As a reaction when you miss with a ranged weapon attack, you can repeat the attack roll against the same target.


Faithful Archer (5 psi; conc., 1 min.). As a bonus action, you imbue a ranged weapon with a limited sentience. Until your concentration ends, you can make an extra attack with the weapon at the start of each of your turns (no action required). If it is a thrown weapon, it returns to your grasp each time you make any attack with it.


and




Immortal Discipline
You have learned how to channel psionic energy into your attacks, lending them devastating power.
Psychic Focus. Whenever you focus on this discipline, choose one weapon you’re holding or your unarmed strike. When you attack with it while focused on this discipline, its damage is psychic and magical, rather than its normal damage type. Until you reach 6th level as a mystic, you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the psychic attack’s damage rolls.


Ethereal Weapon (1 psi). As a bonus action, you temporarily transform one weapon you’re holding or your unarmed strike into pure psionic energy. The next attack you make with it before the end of your turn ignores the target’s armor, requiring no attack roll. Instead, the target makes a Dexterity saving throw against this discipline. On a failed save, the target takes the attack’s normal damage and suffers its additional effects. On a successful save, the target takes half damage from the attack but suffers no additional effects that would normally be imposed on a hit.


Lethal Strike (1–7 psi). As a bonus action, you imbue a weapon you’re holding or your unarmed strike with psychic energy. The next time you hit with it before the end of your turn, it deals an extra 1d10 psychic damage per psi point spent.


Augmented Weapon (5 psi; conc., 10 min.).
As a bonus action, touch one simple or martial weapon. Until your concentration ends, that weapon becomes a magic weapon with a +3 bonus to its attack and damage rolls.


How do those things interact, thoughts?
(yes I know about multiclass and UA, this is an exploration of interaction)

Sicarius Victis
2017-03-20, 05:50 PM
Since the Thunder Cannon is a weapon, it is treated as such by Nomadic Arrow and Psionic Weapon.

Mortis_Elrod
2017-03-20, 06:15 PM
So a number of things.

1. Thunder Cannon(TC) is neither a simple nor a martial weapon. It is However a two-handed ranged weapon
2. TC must use a bonus action each time after fired, so it can be reloaded.

If we remember these 2 points then we can see how each ability interacts.

Nomadic Arrow
-Psychic Focus: This is actually rather nice. Shoot at 500 feet no disadvantage. I like the idea of sniping with a shotgun. It works
-Speed Dart: Smiting is nice, but you need your bonus action to reload Bessie. I wouldn't recommend it.
-Seeking Missle: Good use of a reaction if you're 500 feet away. And it works because you aren't firing again, just curving the bullet with your mind. You're good here have fun
-Faithful Archer: while at first glance it seems like it works but remember rule 2. You can only reload once a turn, so you should only be attacking once a turn. Its a trap


Psionic Weapon
-Psychic Focus: Yeah this works, and its fine if you need some magic/psychic damage but I'm pretty sue level gunsmith gets some magic damage added anyway. It loses value quickly but sure
-Ethereal Weapon: Not bad but rule 2 stops you fom doing this. Good thing later on as an Artificer your TC is gonna be doing plenty of dex save or half damage. Not even needed, but nope
-Lethal Strike: See speeding dart. same thing applies. Nope
-Augmented Weapon: Sadly, this would be REALLY good, if not for Rule 1. Disappointment


I'd grab Nomadic Arrow, psychic focus and reaction use is pretty solid. Nothing useful in Psionic Weapon, in comparison.

DragonSorcererX
2017-03-20, 07:17 PM
Just be a VHuman to get Mercer's Musket and snipe people from up to 800ft away (I'm saying this because Matthew Mercer stuff is probably more accepted by the gaming community than UA).

8wGremlin
2017-03-20, 07:29 PM
Just be a VHuman to get Mercer's Musket and snipe people from up to 800ft away (I'm saying this because Matthew Mercer stuff is probably more accepted by the gaming community than UA).


Unfortunately not at our tables, if not WoTC on the label, then no play...

Sir cryosin
2017-03-20, 08:34 PM
It could work yes it takes a bonus action to reload or a bonus action to use a mystic ability but you can load and attack with a talent then next turn use your bonus action to buff the TC and fire. Then at the next turn reload and use talent or just shoot. You can use the smite like abilities when you really need to drop some damage down.

8wGremlin
2017-03-20, 09:04 PM
Also with the 9th level Artificer ability




Starting at 9th level, you can channel force energy into your Thunder Cannon. As an action, you can make a special attack with it. Rather than making an attack roll, you unleash force energy in a 15-foot cone from the gun. Each creature in that area must make a Strength saving throw with a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier. On a failed saving throw, a target takes 2d6 force damage and is pushed 10 feet away from you.


This damage increases by 1d6 when you reach certain levels in this class: 13th level (3d6) and 17th level (4d6).


Would upping the damage with Speed Dart, apply the extra damage to all the targets?

Flashy
2017-03-20, 09:46 PM
Would upping the damage with Speed Dart, apply the extra damage to all the targets?



Unclear, but you're doing this at such a high level that I doubt that adding an extra 2 or 3d10 damage in a 15' cone is going to break anything.

Dimers
2017-03-20, 10:48 PM
Would upping the damage with Speed Dart, apply the extra damage to all the targets?

Nnnnope. It's an effect that creatures save against; it can't "hit" as required by Speed Dart.

8wGremlin
2017-03-21, 12:24 AM
Nnnnope. It's an effect that creatures save against; it can't "hit" as required by Speed Dart.


Cool thanks, I thought there was something I was missing.

NNescio
2017-03-21, 12:32 AM
Just remember to scream "PSYCHO CANNON!" each time you fire it.

Steampunkette
2017-03-21, 01:20 AM
Round One: Fire cannon. Bonus action reload.
Round Two: Speed Dart bonus action. Fire Cannon. If miss, Seeking Missile to ensure you don't waste th PP.
Round 3: Bonus action reload. Fire Cannon.

After that point you're reloading before each shot, rather than after, so it's a once per encounter use, but you certainly can use Speed Dart without missing a turn of firing to reload.

If loading applies to the cannon, it applies to crossbows, too, doesn't it? Making Crossbows incompatible with Faithful Archer. I'm not sure that is the intent.

Sicarius Victis
2017-03-21, 01:59 AM
If loading applies to the cannon, it applies to crossbows, too, doesn't it? Making Crossbows incompatible with Faithful Archer. I'm not sure that is the intent.

Reloading the Thunder Cannon is an entirely different thing from reloading a crossbow. A crossbow has the loading property, which means that you can only make one attack with it per action/BA. Unless you have Crossbow Expert, of course. However, the Thunder Cannon specifically requires you use your bonus action to reload it, rather than having the loading property, which means it's an entirely different situation.

Steampunkette
2017-03-21, 02:29 AM
Reloading the Thunder Cannon is an entirely different thing from reloading a crossbow. A crossbow has the loading property, which means that you can only make one attack with it per action/BA. Unless you have Crossbow Expert, of course. However, the Thunder Cannon specifically requires you use your bonus action to reload it, rather than having the loading property, which means it's an entirely different situation.

Except that the result is identical in both cases (Unless you're stacking 3 optional systems instead of 2).

Sicarius Victis
2017-03-21, 02:40 AM
Except that the result is identical in both cases (Unless you're stacking 3 optional systems instead of 2).

Eh, one or two UA and a single optional system. And the results are actually quite different. A Mystic with a crossbow - even without Crossbow Master - could still get one attack from Faithful Archer, another from an Attack Action, and a possible third from Surge of Action, as they all use different actions/lack thereof. With a Thunder Cannon, though, they still need to reload as a BA, so they can only get one reliable attack each round, no matter which disciplines they're using.

Deleted
2017-03-21, 02:46 AM
So a number of things.

1. Thunder Cannon(TC) is neither a simple nor a martial weapon. It is However a two-handed ranged weapon
2. TC must use a bonus action each time after fired, so it can be reloaded.

If we remember these 2 points then we can see how each ability interacts.

Nomadic Arrow
-Psychic Focus: This is actually rather nice. Shoot at 500 feet no disadvantage. I like the idea of sniping with a shotgun. It works
-Speed Dart: Smiting is nice, but you need your bonus action to reload Bessie. I wouldn't recommend it.
-Seeking Missle: Good use of a reaction if you're 500 feet away. And it works because you aren't firing again, just curving the bullet with your mind. You're good here have fun
-Faithful Archer: while at first glance it seems like it works but remember rule 2. You can only reload once a turn, so you should only be attacking once a turn. Its a trap


Psionic Weapon
-Psychic Focus: Yeah this works, and its fine if you need some magic/psychic damage but I'm pretty sue level gunsmith gets some magic damage added anyway. It loses value quickly but sure
-Ethereal Weapon: Not bad but rule 2 stops you fom doing this. Good thing later on as an Artificer your TC is gonna be doing plenty of dex save or half damage. Not even needed, but nope
-Lethal Strike: See speeding dart. same thing applies. Nope
-Augmented Weapon: Sadly, this would be REALLY good, if not for Rule 1. Disappointment


I'd grab Nomadic Arrow, psychic focus and reaction use is pretty solid. Nothing useful in Psionic Weapon, in comparison.

I just want to point out that shotguns are used at long ranges. 100 - 150 yards is the average max when it comes to accuracy I believe.

450' in the real world is the max range you will be a reliable shot if you are good.

I hate how games and shows make shotguns out to all be scattershot and only good up close.

Source: From South East Murica.

Steampunkette
2017-03-21, 09:09 AM
Eh, one or two UA and a single optional system. And the results are actually quite different. A Mystic with a crossbow - even without Crossbow Master - could still get one attack from Faithful Archer, another from an Attack Action, and a possible third from Surge of Action, as they all use different actions/lack thereof. With a Thunder Cannon, though, they still need to reload as a BA, so they can only get one reliable attack each round, no matter which disciplines they're using.

I was referring to UA, Multiclassing (which UA isn't designed for), and feats.

Without crossbow master, the initial free attack fires. Then you reload as a bonus action, then fire a regular attack, but can't fire with surge because it costs a bonus action to cast and doesn't grant you a bonus action to reload.

You could do the same with the Thunder Cannon, Once in a combat.