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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Raw Arcana [Sorceror Archetype]



Amechra
2017-03-21, 01:25 AM
Raw Arcana (Sorcerous Origin)

INFINITE POWER! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aLyiI2odhU)

1 :- Incidental Sorcery
You gain one of Control Flames, Gust, Mold Earth, Prestidigitation, or Shape Water as a bonus cantrip known. Whenever you take the Disengage, Dodge, or Help action, you may cast any cantrip you know on the above list as a bonus action.

6 :- Effortless Sorcery
Whenever you sacrifice a spell slot for spell points, you gain an additional Sorcery point.

14 :- Enduring Sorcery
You no longer lose concentration when Incapacitated, and may spend one Sorcery point to automatically maintain concentration when damaged.

18 :- Transcendent Sorcery
Whenever you use metamagic on a spell, you may spend an additional Sorcery point. If you do, you may apply a second metamagic option to that spell.

=---=

Effortless Sorcery might still be too strong, and I might still need more fluff... but infinite power. Seriously, Effortless Sorcery turns you into the Energizer Bunny through sheer efficiency.

The_Jette
2017-03-23, 08:52 AM
Raw Arcana (Sorcerous Origin)

INFINITE POWER! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aLyiI2odhU)

1 :- Incidental Sorcery
You gain one of Control Flames, Gust, Mold Earth, Prestidigitation, or Shape Water as a bonus cantrip known. Whenever you take the Disengage, Dodge, or Help action, you may cast any cantrip you know on the above list as a bonus action.

6 :- Effortless Sorcery
Whenever you sacrifice a spell slot for spell points, you gain an additional Sorcery point.

14 :- Enduring Sorcery
You no longer lose concentration when Incapacitated, and may spend one Sorcery point to automatically maintain concentration when damaged.

18 :- Transcendent Sorcery
Whenever you use metamagic on a spell, you may spend an additional Sorcery point. If you do, you may apply a second metamagic option to that spell.

=---=

Effortless Sorcery might still be too strong, and I might still need more fluff... but infinite power. Seriously, Effortless Sorcery turns you into the Energizer Bunny through sheer efficiency.

The only thing that I can see, right off the bat, is that Effortless Sorcery would let you convert all of your first level spell slots into the second level spell slots, which can then each be converted back into two first level spell slots. Since you would be converting a first level spell into 3 Sorcery Points, which can be converted into a second level spell slot, and you can then convert that second level spell slot into 4 Sorcery points, which is two first level spell slots. You're not joking when you say infinite power, because that's exactly what the Sorceror gets. As long as the sorcerer maintains one first level spell slot, they can convert and reconvert to the point that they're back up to full power after every fight.

Amechra
2017-03-23, 09:44 AM
Your numbers are a bit off - normally, the trade goes like:

Slots to Points: You get points equal to the slot's level.
Points to Slots: It costs points equal to the slot's level + 1, +1 if the slot's level is 3 or higher.

With Effortless Sorcery, that changes to:

Slots to Points: You get points equal to the slot's level + 1.
Points to Slots: It costs points equal to the slot's level + 1, +1 if the slot's level is 3 or higher.

The_Jette
2017-03-23, 10:24 AM
Your numbers are a bit off - normally, the trade goes like:

Slots to Points: You get points equal to the slot's level.
Points to Slots: It costs points equal to the slot's level + 1, +1 if the slot's level is 3 or higher.

With Effortless Sorcery, that changes to:

Slots to Points: You get points equal to the slot's level + 1.
Points to Slots: It costs points equal to the slot's level + 1, +1 if the slot's level is 3 or higher.

Yeah, I see that now. My mistake. This isn't as unbalanced as I initially thought.

Revan Ordo
2017-04-06, 07:56 AM
Looks good. I've also got an arcane bloodline archetype for the sorcerer with some similar ideas. Still play-testing mine. We'll see how it goes.

Dralnu
2017-04-06, 03:13 PM
I think Incidental Sorcery is on the weak side compared to what the other subclasses get unless I'm missing some powerful applications of it. Effortless Sorcery is sweet and seems on par to what others get. Enduring Sorcery seems kinda lame to me; at the very least I'd change it so you only spend the sorcery point after you failed your Concentration and then spend a point to succeed. Transcendant Sorcery is awesome and fitting for 18th level.

Amechra
2017-04-06, 08:20 PM
I think Incidental Sorcery is on the weak side compared to what the other subclasses get unless I'm missing some powerful applications of it. Effortless Sorcery is sweet and seems on par to what others get. Enduring Sorcery seems kinda lame to me; at the very least I'd change it so you only spend the sorcery point after you failed your Concentration and then spend a point to succeed. Transcendant Sorcery is awesome and fitting for 18th level.

How do these look?

1 - Incidental Sorcery
You learn an additional Cantrip, and gain Proficiency with Arcana. Whenever you cast a Cantrip, you may do so without any somatic or verbal components.

14 - Seething Sorcery
You may spend a Sorcery Point as a bonus action to forcibly oppose lesser magic - until the beginning of your next turn, you have Advantage on all saves against spells, and spell attacks made against you have Disadvantage. Alternatively, you may spend two additional Sorcery Points to use this feature as a reaction whenever you fail a Charisma or Constitution save - if you do so, you may reroll that save and take the second result.

=---=

Seething Sorcery is supposed to be a really good (if expensive) defensive feature. I mean, you'll have the Sorcery Points - that's the point of Effortless Sorcery.

Dralnu
2017-04-06, 10:25 PM
I like both these versions a lot more. Especially Incidental Sorcery looks awesome.

Revan Ordo
2017-04-07, 07:57 AM
I'm liking the changes. Incidental Sorcery is much better. Seething Sorcery seems like a much better ability. Perhaps being able to alter/improve concentration checks should be represented as a new metamagic ability or as a feat.

JBPuffin
2017-04-07, 09:48 AM
Fantastic! I know a sorcerer who would absolutely love this if the DM allowed homebrew...seems balanced, although I like the "Cunning Action Cantrip" idea as well...what if instead of when you took (short list here) action, you just got a bonus action to use a non-damaging cantrip? Getting one of those four as a bonus action every turn seems pretty fun at 1st level.

Dralnu
2017-04-07, 12:07 PM
I personally like the new Incidental Sorcery better because I can think of dozens of practical applications of using cantrips like Minor Image, Dancing Lights, Friends etc. with no verbal/somatic components. You can pull off many creative things when you no longer have to worry about NPCs seeing that you're casting a spell and connecting the dots. It's why Silent Metamagic is so good.

Bonus action cantrips though? Bonus action would only be applicable to combat, and how many of those cantrips are actually worth casting in combat in the first place? Fiddle with a torch sometimes? Mold Earth to mildly inconvenience a bad guy into spending an extra 5 feet of movement? And it requires you not to do your preferred actions in combat, which is using your action to cast spells (you're a Sorcerer, after all). Maybe I'm missing something here but it seems far too situational and underwhelming compared to, say, Dragon Sorcerer getting permanent Mage Armor which is a great boon especially at low levels where spell slots are tight.

I'd also make Incidental Sorcery's reaction ability 2 sorcery points instead of 3. 3 seems mighty steep, and despite Effortless Sorcery's better conversion rate I highly doubt the sorcerer will be swimming in extra points. Plus this competes with Dragon Sorcerer's permanent Fly (3rd level spell) with no concentration and activated as a bonus action.

JBPuffin
2017-04-07, 01:55 PM
I personally like the new Incidental Sorcery better because I can think of dozens of practical applications of using cantrips like Minor Image, Dancing Lights, Friends etc. with no verbal/somatic components. You can pull off many creative things when you no longer have to worry about NPCs seeing that you're casting a spell and connecting the dots. It's why Silent Metamagic is so good.

Bonus action cantrips though? Bonus action would only be applicable to combat, and how many of those cantrips are actually worth casting in combat in the first place? Fiddle with a torch sometimes? Mold Earth to mildly inconvenience a bad guy into spending an extra 5 feet of movement? And it requires you not to do your preferred actions in combat, which is using your action to cast spells (you're a Sorcerer, after all). Maybe I'm missing something here but it seems far too situational and underwhelming compared to, say, Dragon Sorcerer getting permanent Mage Armor which is a great boon especially at low levels where spell slots are tight.

Maybe we could have both of those are as weak as they seem?

zeek0
2017-04-08, 05:26 AM
The original Incidental Sorcery seems more elemental themed than it feels like the class is. Otherwise, I quite like the class and I'll be adding it to my homebrew collection. Good work!

Amechra
2017-04-09, 12:34 AM
Ooh, I got comments. Yay!

1) Off the top of my head, bonus action non-damaging cantrips opens up spamming Blade Ward, Guidance, and Resistance. If you look outside of core, you also have Virtue. I'd rather not have to worry about people getting Resistance to non-magical Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing or 1d4+Wis temporary HP every round...

It also wouldn't fit too well with the theme of this subclass - you're more about raw power than rapid spell-slinging. Additionally, it kind of clashes with Sorcerer as a class - it'd conflict with Quicken. And since this is Sorcery Points: The Subclass, that doesn't feel right.

2) I'm... unhappy with Surging Sorcery's current form. It just doesn't feel like it fits - it's mechanically sound (if a little too expensive)., but it just feels too abjuration-y. And it's a bit more complex than I really want it to be.

So I'm thinking of going with this:

14 - Incarnate Sorcery
You may spend a Sorcery Point whenever a spell forces you to roll a saving throw to make a Charisma saving throw instead. Whenever you fail a saving throw you make with proficiency, you gain a Sorcery Point.

In other words, you can essentially Charisma SAD your saves vs. spells, and you only have to pay if you pass the save. On top of that, it also throws you a bone whenever you fail the save to maintain Concentration. And blocking mind control with shear sorcerous ego is just fun.

=---=

For reference, the current version of the subclass:


Raw Arcana (Sorcerous Origin)

1 :- Incidental Sorcery
You learn an additional Cantrip, and gain Proficiency with Arcana. Whenever you cast a Cantrip, you may do so without any somatic or verbal components.

6 :- Effortless Sorcery
Whenever you sacrifice a spell slot for spell points, you gain an additional Sorcery point.

14 :- Incarnate Sorcery
You may spend a Sorcery Point whenever a spell forces you to roll a saving throw to make a Charisma saving throw instead. Whenever you fail a saving throw you make with proficiency, you gain a Sorcery Point.

18 :- Transcendent Sorcery
Whenever you use metamagic on a spell, you may spend an additional Sorcery point. If you do, you may apply a second metamagic option to that spell.

Dralnu
2017-04-09, 10:19 AM
I love the latest version. One small nitpick is that the subclass grants proficiency in Arcana when the base Sorcerer already has Arcana as an option (very limited options). This is less bothersome since you start the subclass at level 1, but generally if a subclass offer proficiency in a skill it's outside of the base class options. Or they offer some other benefit to the skill, like advantage, or double proficiency if you already have it. Not sure if it warrants a change though.

I like where the subclass is on flavor and balance. The mechanics are concise and stand out from the other subclasses available.

Amechra
2017-04-10, 11:00 PM
I love the latest version. One small nitpick is that the subclass grants proficiency in Arcana when the base Sorcerer already has Arcana as an option (very limited options). This is less bothersome since you start the subclass at level 1, but generally if a subclass offer proficiency in a skill it's outside of the base class options. Or they offer some other benefit to the skill, like advantage, or double proficiency if you already have it. Not sure if it warrants a change though.

I like where the subclass is on flavor and balance. The mechanics are concise and stand out from the other subclasses available.

It's really that I can't think of any other Skill to give them proficiency in. It's more to make sure that Raw Arcana Sorcerers are always proficient in Arcana. It's more of a ribbon - the real benefit is a free cantrip + "all cantrips benefit from Subtle Spell all the time".

And I'm glad that you enjoyed the conciseness - I kind of like how you could fit the whole thing in a sidebar if you really had to.