Does a Wu Jen need a arcane focus?

[Sir cryosin]

Does a Wu Jen follow normal spellcasting rules. Does it need a focus? Do they still need the m,s,v when casting a spell.

[DivisibleByZero]

Yes, yes, and yes.
The Psi Points create slots. Those slots are used exactly as any other slot in the game is used.... to cast a spell. All normal stipulations apply.

[Joe the Rat]

Not sure about#2 there. Does it say they can use arcane foci? If not, then you need pockets full of spiders and bean buns.

...Which given the Wu Jen weirdo factor (you might recognize this as the "quirks" they foisted on all mystics), is probably the right way to go.

[DivisibleByZero]

Ah, good catch. I hadn't thought about that.
Mystics say nothing about foci, and don't have proficiency with them. So they'd need mats.

[Fishybugs]

Or a component pouch, I presume.

[Dracul3S]

The spell are from the wizard list, but they do not cast as wizards. The class description tells us that Mystics never need to use components. As there is nothing different written about Wu Jen, i believe they use no components at all.

[DivisibleByZero]

The spell are from the wizard list, but they do not cast as wizards. The class description tells us that Mystics never need to use components. As there is nothing different written about Wu Jen, i believe they use no components at all.


At 6th level, you learn three wizard spells of your
choice and always have them prepared. The
spells must be of 1st through 3rd level.
As a bonus action, you can spend psi points to
create spell slots that you can use to cast these
spells, as well as other spells you are capable of
casting. The psi-point cost of each spell slot is
detailed on the table below.
Spell Slot Level Psi Cost
1st 2
2nd 3
3rd 5
4th 6
5th 7
The spell slot remains until you use it or finish a
long rest. You must observe your psi limit when
spending psi points to create a spell slot.
Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can
replace one of the chosen wizard spells with a
different wizard spell of 1st through 3rd level.

This ability grants you three spells known, and then basically acts exactly like the Sorcerer's Font of Magic to create slots with which you cast spells.
That's it.
He is still casting the spell, because, you know, he's an.... Arcane Dabbler. Dabbling in the arcane. Casting spells from the slots that he creates, just like any other caster, and abiding by the same rules as any other caster casting from slots.... which he is.

The description for Disciplines tells us that they never need mats to use their Disciplines. Casting a spell from a slot created via Arcane Dabbler is not using a Discipline. It's casting a spell from a slot created via Arcane Dabbler. It's casting a spell from a slot. It's casting a spell. Casting.

[Socratov]

At 6th level, you learn three wizard spells of your
choice and always have them prepared. The
spells must be of 1st through 3rd level.
As a bonus action, you can spend psi points to
create spell slots that you can use to cast these
spells, as well as other spells you are capable of
casting. The psi-point cost of each spell slot is
detailed on the table below.
Spell Slot Level Psi Cost
1st 2
2nd 3
3rd 5
4th 6
5th 7
The spell slot remains until you use it or finish a
long rest. You must observe your psi limit when
spending psi points to create a spell slot.
Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can
replace one of the chosen wizard spells with a
different wizard spell of 1st through 3rd level.

This ability grants you three spells known, and then basically acts exactly like the Sorcerer's Font of Magic to create slots with which you cast spells.
That's it.
He is still casting the spell, because, you know, he's an.... Arcane Dabbler. Dabbling in the arcane. Casting spells from the slots that he creates, just like any other caster, and abiding by the same rules as any other caster casting from slots.... which he is.

The description for Disciplines tells us that they never need mats to use their Disciplines. Casting a spell from a slot created via Arcane Dabbler is not using a Discipline. It's casting a spell from a slot created via Arcane Dabbler. It's casting a spell from a slot. It's casting a spell. Casting.

Oh wow, this class is the ideal candidate for Magic Initiate and other such spell finders...

[DivisibleByZero]

Oh wow, this class is the ideal candidate for Magic Initiate and other such spell finders...

Kind of, yes. And kind of not.
You see, Wu Jen sounds cool as heck in theory, but the problem is a very simple one. Any 1st-3rd level spells which you'll want to continue casting throughout your career, which are the only ones that really make this feature worthwhile, already have counterparts contained within Disciplines.
Go ahead and try to name a spell that you'll want for this, read through all the Disciplines, and you'll find where you can basically get it already.
It sounds cool in theory. But in practice it is basically redundant, and you'd probably be better off carefully choosing Disciplines, and be able to fill that concept you had in mind while actually getting other useful features from a different Order.

[Socratov]

Kind of, yes. And kind of not.
You see, Wu Jen sounds cool as heck in theory, but the problem is a very simple one. Any 1st-3rd level spells which you'll want to continue casting throughout your career, which are the only ones that really make this feature worthwhile, already have counterparts contained within Disciplines.
Go ahead and try to name a spell that you'll want for this, read through all the Disciplines, and you'll find where you can basically get it already.
It sounds cool in theory. But in practice it is basically redundant, and you'd probably be better off carefully choosing Disciplines, and be able to fill that concept you had in mind while actually getting other useful features from a different Order.

Well, I haven't delved all too deeply into the mystic (yet) but I can imagine that the mystic is as bound to a number of disciplines/spells/whatever as it is the next and likely some classes will be able to do tricks that others cannot. Anyway, having the ability to create an emergency Shield is a great way to keep yourself safe.

[DivisibleByZero]

Anyway, having the ability to create an emergency Shield is a great way to keep yourself safe.

Nomad: Memory of a Thousand Steps
Dimunition: Sudden Shift
Intellect Fortress: Psychic Backlash
Iron Durability: Iron Hide
Nomadic Step: Defensive Step
possibly more that I missed....
There you have 5 different Shield alternatives. One is from an Order, four are from Disciplines which anyone can take.
By the time you would have reached 6th level and acquired Arcane Dabbler, a Soul Knife would have 3 Disciplines, while every other Mystic would have 5 Disciplines. You could have found room for one of those in there and not needed to be a Wu Jen to have an adequate Shield alternative.
Thank you for proving my point for me so nicely.

[druid91]

Animate Dead.

Sure, the Wu Jen in particular has no shortage of summoning, and in fact has plenty of powerful summoning, but it's all short term.

[sightlessrealit]

They don't need to use a focus.

[DivisibleByZero]

They don't need to use a focus.

They can't use a focus because they don't have a feature which grants the ability to use one.
The do, however, need to use material components or a component pouch when casting spells from slots created via Arcane Dabbler.

[tkuremento]

They can't use a focus because they don't have a feature which grants the ability to use one.
The do, however, need to use material components or a component pouch when casting spells from slots created via Arcane Dabbler.

Agreed, this is the conclusion I have come to as well. Arcane Dabbler isn't a discipline or talent so the reference to disciplines and talents not needing components doesn't apply. In classes with Spellcasting or Pact Magic it specifies the use of foci, Arcane Dabbler doesn't give those.

Being bound to the rules of spells for these spells means that components must also be used. Of course this is RAW, I assume the RAI is not using components since nothing else the Mystic does seems to require them.

[sightlessrealit]

They don't need to use a focus. As I see it.

[Saggo]

They don't need to use a focus. As I see it.

I'm honestly curious why you keep saying that. Whether they use a Focus or not is immaterial, they can't, so I assume you mean they don't need Materials and I don't see how you get that.

[DivisibleByZero]

I'm honestly curious why you keep saying that. Whether they use a Focus or not is immaterial, they can't, so I assume you mean they don't need Materials and I don't see how you get that.

He's saying that because it says that Mystics don't need any mats for their Disciplines, and because it doesn't *specifically* state that he needs them in order to cast a spell.
He fails to realize that it doesn't need to specifically say that, and that it would in point of fact need to specifically state otherwise because the normal spellcasting rules would apply by default.

[sightlessrealit]

I'm honestly curious why you keep saying that. Whether they use a Focus or not is immaterial, they can't, so I assume you mean they don't need Materials and I don't see how you get that.

They don't need to use a focus. As I see it. Regardless of it being irrelevant or not.

[Saggo]

They don't need to use a focus. As I see it. Regardless of it being irrelevant or not.

Oh. Rote repetition. Won't even bother to add any value. Guess this is done.

[ZaharielHD]

Kind of, yes. And kind of not.
Go ahead and try to name a spell that you'll want for this, read through all the Disciplines, and you'll find where you can basically get it already.


I was thinking Find Familiar for utility, Mirror Image and Counterspell, which I believe you can't replicate from Disciplines plus require no concentration.
On the maybe list: Dispel Magic, Animate Dead, Rope Trick, Sending, Major Image, Blink, Haste.
You could also temporarily grab Mage armor so you don't have to take Mastery of Force early just for the AC.

But true, every time I see someone mention Arcane Dabbler for Shield I think of Psychic Backlash (Disadvantage is ~+5 AC so better than shield with a damage bonus included).
Defensive step is also strictly better.

[Vogonjeltz]

Does a Wu Jen follow normal spellcasting rules. Does it need a focus? Do they still need the m,s,v when casting a spell.

A Wu Jen has no class feature allowing the use of a focus.

[Socratov]

I was thinking Find Familiar for utility, Mirror Image and Counterspell, which I believe you can't replicate from Disciplines plus require no concentration.
On the maybe list: Dispel Magic, Animate Dead, Rope Trick, Sending, Major Image, Blink, Haste.
You could also temporarily grab Mage armor so you don't have to take Mastery of Force early just for the AC.

But true, every time I see someone mention Arcane Dabbler for Shield I think of Psychic Backlash (Disadvantage is ~+5 AC so better than shield with a damage bonus included).
Defensive step is also strictly better.

Bolding mine.

No it isn't, It is +/- 5 for advantage/disadvantage on the broadest part of the bellcurve (around 10 I believe). On average it's more an effective +3. Plus shield gives immunity to magic missile (which is an autohit spell)...

[Zalabim]

More urbanely, Psychic Backlash has to be used before the attack roll, on only one attack, from an attacker you can see. It has a lot of downsides compared to Shield.

Off memory, I don't think there's much to compete with Web for a simple area disable.

[Ursus the Grim]

More urbanely, Psychic Backlash has to be used before the attack roll, on only one attack, from an attacker you can see. It has a lot of downsides compared to Shield.


On the flip side, it's also a Hellish Rebuke.

[Vorpalchicken]

Only Iron Hide competes with Shield. All the others only work versus one attack. And Iron Hide costs five or more points if you want it to do the same job. My Wu Jen will take Shield as a spell.