Character to round the party out

[Spore]

Greetings playground,

we will open up a new group with three PCs two of which are (Half-Elven) Sorcerer and Dwarven Cleric (idk which domain). I have decided to fill the remaining roles. (specialist and melee "tank"). My ideas - and problems with these builds - are the following:

Goliath Eldritch Knight
Pro:
+ insane tank
+ decentish at Arcana and Int checks, but will probably still need help from the cleric for some things
+ Str build so good at Athletics (and thinking how I will play a heavily armored Goliath, will probably get advantage on Intimidation more often than not.

Con:
- clunky, party will miss out on dex skills (initiative, notably stealth and lockpicking/traps)
- will he be able to bind enemies on turns where the reaction is used for shield spells and not opportunity attacks?
- is he enough of a 'skill monkey' to cover the remaining bases?

Half-Elf Valor Bard (Link from Ocarina of Time):
Pro:
+ good utility
+ full caster for social/non combat situations while able to melee properly
+ good initiative

Con:
- same casting stat as sorcerer (predestined for face)
- me and music fluff go together like burning oil and water (my DM insists on it)
- is a d8 character enough of a tank for a three man team where there are no backup chars?

Variant Human OR Catfolk (homebrew, Dex +2, Cha +1, dex-based jump checks, less falling damage) Battle Master 4/Rogue 1 (becoming Assassin 3 if we ever get to 8th level)
Pro:
+ good utility
+ good initiative
+ expertise is a permanent thing and not dependant on per rest uses or spell slots

Con:
- class combos slow the build down (and we will likely just play 6 months which could mean 8th level max)
- entirely mundane means most supernatural abilities come from magical items (which we probably dont have many of)
- if started with Rogue, looses Con save

Catfolk Berserker 4/ Rogue 1(Dex build) - ugh this one.
Pro:
+ feral cat makes up for insane fluff imho
+ sticks to the enemy (35 ft base speed plus barb speed)
+ rather skilled still
+ Dex Athletics jumps plus barb speed plus (later on) cunning action extra speed makes for mental jumps

- Barbarian and using finesse weapons doesnt mix at all/Dex race and Str build doesnt mix as well
- worried if unarmored defense is enough AC

Any ideas? Any suggestions of your own?

[Azgeroth]

Orc barbarian, totem, take bear.

great survivability, great melee damage.

or, Orc fighter, battle master, good survivability, good melee and ranged damaged, also adds some utility with manoeuvres.

dwarf is also a good option, but orcs get the once a day dont die, and also the extra weapon die on crit.

with that small a size of party i would probably go barbarian.

although a moon druid is also a good idea, giving you decent tanking through beast shape, and also some control and healing spells, though not as good a damage dealer as a sorc it would give you the most options.

[Spore]

Orc or Half-Orc?

[Sexyshoeless]

I think out of your options, it really depends on what that cleric is doing. Depending on Domain and build, Clerics make for a fine front line fighter which would allow you to pick a more DPS type build like the dex barbarian without issue. If his idea is to be more of a caster, I personally love the Goliath EK or the battlemaster/assassin to fill the roles you outlined.

Dont worry about "not having X Y Z skills." Even a party of 5 fighters (we've done it before) can find solutions to most encounters - just perhaps not the most straightforward ones that a rogue might.

[Final Hyena]

Maybe a dex based paladin? You focus dex for those skills your group lacks. Dex + leather is still decent ac combined with d10 hit dice. You can go with a shield for tankiness or duel wield for quick smiting dps.

Sure you will be 1 or 2 ac behind a more focused full plate user and you wont have as much hp a barb, but you will still be a formidable front liner while rounding out the group.

[Breashios]

The party I DM for has a Moon Druid and an Arcane Trickster in the front line. That Rogue is so hard to hit with Blur. Look at the Rogue as a primary damage dealer to work off the Cleric if he goes with a domain that will allow him to hold his own. Obviously it will depend on what enemies you'll have to fight, but can work better than a typical front line choice. Just make sure the team knows to target any spell casters going after your Wis save, because that is how I mitigate his effectiveness in the campaign I am running.

Edit: Valor Bard might work in a similar way, but I doubt will ever do as much damage as the Rogue.

[Specter]

I think two things can work:

- Wood Elf Beastmaster/Rogue 1
- Human Battlemaster/Swashbuckler (Shield Master or Tough)

Both will give you good skills and good damage, which is what the party needs. Beastmaster (revised, obviously) gets an extra presence in the field, which is good for 3-party members, and Swashbuckler can go out on his own to the frontlines.

[Spore]

I think out of your options, it really depends on what that cleric is doing. Depending on Domain and build, Clerics make for a fine front line fighter which would allow you to pick a more DPS type build like the dex barbarian without issue. If his idea is to be more of a caster, I personally love the Goliath EK or the battlemaster/assassin to fill the roles you outlined.

The cleric player is a novice in 5e with no intentions of bettering himself and played his cleric(s) very reactive. As in - he will never buff my defense beforehand if he can just patch me up afterwards. In the same vein he has almost not tactical understanding (as in a well placed Shield of Faith can have the same impact as several healing spells) but he will go support.

So most likely Light, Life or Tempest and I will try to push him towards Life. He hates being the group's healer but with his understanding of 5e this is probably the best idea.


Dont worry about "not having X Y Z skills." Even a party of 5 fighters (we've done it before) can find solutions to most encounters - just perhaps not the most straightforward ones that a rogue might.

That is comforting. Still, with the bounded accuracy and expertise (esp. on stealth or perception) you are pretty save from ambushes and during an ambush.


- Wood Elf Beastmaster/Rogue 1

That is actually a worthy extension to my list. Sadly I am not thrilled to play an Elf.


Look at the Rogue as a primary damage dealer to work off the Cleric if he goes with a domain that will allow him to hold his own.

That is a very nice idea. I hope my cleric is going for a bit of melee oomph this time.

[Specter]

That is actually a worthy extension to my list. Sadly I am not thrilled to play an Elf.

It was just a suggestion, go crazy on that.

[Biggstick]

Half Orc Totem Barbarian. Wear medium armor and use a Sword and Board. Max out Strength, make sure you have 14 Dexterity (for bonus to your medium armor), and have a decent Con. You can dump Cha and Int, try to have a Wis score that is set up to take Resilient: Wis down the line. Take the Criminal background (for early access to Thieves' Tools), as well as Stealth. Half Orc will naturally get Intimidation, the don't die mechanic once a day, and extra damage dice on criticals.

Go 5-6 levels into Totem Barbarian, picking up Bear for the level 3. You're going Bear because you're probably acting as a solo tank. And if you're not a solo tank (the Cleric has gone a more martial route), you're being greedy and wanting to take half damage from everything except psychic damage. And you know what, you deserve this little bit of greed, because guess what, you're the tank. Some other nice things about going 5-6 levels into Barbarian with the Criminal background is you have options when advancing forward in dungeon situations. You can face check and count on your advantage to Dex saves + higher then normal hp, or you can utilize your Criminal background, stealth forward, and pick locks. Last thing I'll mention on the Barbarian is the 6th level of it. Personally I really like the flavor of the 6th level Totem abilities (double my carry capacity and advantage on all those sweet Str checks? Yes please!). I also really like having a 4th Rage. Three rages can go pretty fast, and you might be pretty tempted to hold on to them. With 4, it feels easier to throw one or two away in situations throughout the day.

After your 5-6 levels of Totem Barbarian, it's time to grab Rogue levels. In fact, you're going the rest of the way as a Rogue. This opens up your mobility and gives you a nice damage increase. You're going to have to switch to a weapon that qualifies for Sneak Attack, but it's worth it in that you can actually create your own advantage with the Barbarian Reckless Attack feature. You'll also be picking up a great use for your bonus action in Cunning Action. This gives you some pretty insane move speed capability, in that you'll already have 40 MS from Barbarian 5, and adding a Cunning Action on top of that for another 40' means you can practically fly around the battlefield.

TLDR; Half Orc Bear Totem Barbarian for the first 6 levels. Take the Criminal background for Thieves' Tools + Stealth. After 6 levels of Barbarian, go Thief Rogue for 14 levels. Use a short sword and Reckless Attack to generate your own Sneak attack. Be incredibly tanky, mobile, physically strong, and capable of doing a solid amount of damage.

[Spore]

I should probably tell you that I have settled for Variant Human Rogue 1/Monster Hunter Fighter 4 (from the Gothic Heroes UA) with the Haunted One background from Curse of Strahd. Dex build Crossbow Expert with Resilient (Wis) as my backstory could conjure up mind control one way or another. I wanted to go for Magic Initiate (Cleric) with Guidance, Light and Bless/Shield of Faith at first instead of Resilience (Wis), but I felt that securing my Wisdom saves is a tad more important than doing the cleric's job (and Magic Initiate Warlock would have meant me increasing my dump stat Charisma

[Specter]

I should probably tell you that I have settled for Variant Human Rogue 1/Monster Hunter Fighter 4 (from the Gothic Heroes UA) with the Haunted One background from Curse of Strahd. Dex build Crossbow Expert with Resilient (Wis) as my backstory could conjure up mind control one way or another. I wanted to go for Magic Initiate (Cleric) with Guidance, Light and Bless/Shield of Faith at first instead of Resilience (Wis), but I felt that securing my Wisdom saves is a tad more important than doing the cleric's job (and Magic Initiate Warlock would have meant me increasing my dump stat Charisma

Solid choice. You should have 7 skills if you started as a fighter!

But I'd skip Magic Initiate: as a solo frontliner, you should really leave casting to the casters. Give us more details on your build.

[Spore]

Solid choice. You should have 7 skills if you started as a fighter!

But I'd skip Magic Initiate: as a solo frontliner, you should really leave casting to the casters. Give us more details on your build.

I started as Rogue, though :) I would have taken Magic Initiate if it had allowed me to use Eldritch Blast well without investing into Charisma. The other cantrips are just not worth it.

Askan,
Lawful Neutral Rogue 1/Monster Hunter Fighter 4


AC 15 (Studded Leather)
HP 44, Init +3, Pass Perception 18
Speed 30 ft.



Str
Dex
Con
Int
Wis
Cha


10
16
14
12
14
10



Skills: Acrobatics +6, Arcana +4, Athletics +3, Insight +5, Investigation +4, Perception +8, Sleight of Hand +6, Stealth +9, Survival +5 I act as the party scout and chief inquisitor, as the party's trap monkey and its guide in the wilderness. I am just a bit sad I couldn't fit History in for Athletics
Senses: passive Perception +18
Languages: Common, Niedersang, Abyssal, Infernal

Spellcasting. Askan is able to cast Detect Magic as a ritual spell with Wisdom as his governing stat. He can also cast Protection from Evil and Good 1/long rest using his Fighter level as his caster level (I guess).

Expertise: Stealth, Perception Insight would've been nice too for snuffing out hidden monsters.

Sneak Attack +1d6, Thieves' Cant: Refluffed as having a system of intricate runes telling other monster hunters of terrible dangers.

Fighting Style: Dueling, Second Wind, Action Surge

Combat Superiority: 4d8

Combat Superiority
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you
gain a set of abilities that are fueled by special dice
called superiority dice.
Superiority Dice.
You have four superiority dice, which are d8s. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain all of your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long
rest.
You gain another superiority die at 7th level and one more at 15th level.
Using Superiority Dice.
You can expend superiority dice to gaina number of different benefits:
• When you make a weapon attack against a
creature, you can expend one superiority die to add it to the attack roll. You can use this ability before or after making the attack roll, but before any of the effects of the attack are applied.
•When you damage a creature with a weapon
attack, you can expend one superiority die to
add it to the damage roll. You can use this ability
after rolling damage. If the attack causes the target to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration, it has disadvantage on thatsave.
•When you make an Intelligence, a Wisdom, or a Charisma saving throw, you can expend one superiority die to add it to the roll. You can use this feature only before you learn if the save succeeded or failed.
•When you make a Wisdom (Perception) check to detect a hidden creature or object, or a Wisdom (Insight) check to determine if someone is lying to you, you can expend one superiority die to add it to the roll. You can use this featureafter seeing the total but before learning if you succeeded or failed.

Actions:
Short Sword. Melee Weapon Attack +6 to hit, reach 5ft., one target, Hit 9 (1d6 + 5) piercing
Hand Crossbow. Ranged Weapon Attack +6 to hit, reach 30/200 ft. one target, Hit 7 (1d6+3) piercing

All in all, the build feels very intricate and skilled but a bit on the frail side as well as not as damage focussed (without the second attack on Fighter 5 at least)

Feats: Resilient (Wisdom), Crossbow Expert

Bond: I refuse to become a victim, and I will not allow others to be victimized.

Askan has to keep a demon at bay while fighting other horrid creatures. He thinks there is no reason for others to succumb to their weaknesses. He will show them how to resist.

Ideals: I like to know my enemy’s capabilities and weaknesses before rushing into battle.

Rushing headlong into battle is suicide. Study your targets, even if it means a detour to a known scholar, a library or recovering an ancient tome first.

Bonds: There’s evil in me, I can feel it. It must never be set free.

Having been possessed by a Demon in his younger years he is set on containing him for as long as possible. Demons are dream/nightmare creatures in our setting and thus cannot physically manifest themselves without help from outside. But they can drive their hosts insane. Also it doesn't help that his homeland's primary religion is that of Asmodeus - meaning more draconic punishment for demonology.

Flaws: I have certain rituals that I must follow every day. I can never break them.

I took the word 'rituals' literal here. After a night of terrible nightmares, Askan is at his weakest in the early morning hours. He has to follow strict, almost clerical routines to keep the demon at bay, usually meditating to calm his mind and strengthen his resolve after performing a few rites of banishment.

[Specter]

Good stuff all around!

Though it begs the question: why not use a shield? With 15AC I think you'll have a hard time.

As far as feats go, Tough, Mage Slayer and Defensive Duelist would be good choices.

[Spore]

Good stuff all around!

Though it begs the question: why not use a shield?

We don't have a non magical ranged attack and I thought I needed a bit more damage (because dead is the most debilitating status effect for enemies).


As far as feats go, Tough, Mage Slayer and Defensive Duelist would be good choices.

If I fight with a shield, sure. Mage Slayer sounds like a good thing for Lv 7 (Fighter 6) but I like Defensive Duelist. Tough is plain boring.

[Spore]

Double post...soo people informed me that they put nearly no effort into their characters and that the group is now consisting of a Tiefling Phoenix Sorcerer (playtest) Pyromaniac and an Arcane Trickster Tinker Gnome. I retracted my awesome thought out build - not to waste it with THAT group, and chose a Barbarian instead (basically homebrewed Pandaren Con +2/Wis +1). The DM then proceeded to give us bonus stat points of 1d4-1 and somehow I ended up at 17 Dex and 19 Con. This is gonna be awesome.