converting the duskblade into a ranged class

[astrerouge]

Hi all,

I would like to ask some help in developing an idea that I have.

I would like to use the duskblade chassis as a basis for an arcane archer class.

By that I mean that I would like to change his spell list to get more archery spells, mainly from the ranger spell list, along with some
more spells to channel with his arrow.

Evidently, it would mean changing arcane channeling so it applies to ranged attacks.

Maybe change the armored casting progression to limit it to light armor.

Also, I had an idea that I was unsure of, that is changing the quick cast ability to the ability to use some of the swift action archery spell like arrow mind and such once per encounter.

Does anyone like this idea? And i would like some suggestions too iif you have them ^^

Also, I am not sure if talking of such an adaptation belongs in the homebrew forum, if so, how should I ask for a transfer?

[Zaq]

Hmm. This isn't quite what you asked for, but have you looked at the Spellwarp Sniper PrC in Complete Scoundrel? It's a very different approach than what you were describing, but it's good at turning spells that aren't ranged touch attacks into, well, ranged touch attacks. Might be useful to you, though the fact that it's a PrC rather than a base class means that it possibly solves a different problem than the one you're thinking of.

If you really want to make a base class for this, I'd be very careful. Turning spells that are melee touch into spells that work at range usually involves some kind of nontrivial cost. For example, Spectral Hand takes a 2nd level slot and an extra action each time you use it, Reach Spell is a +2 Metamagic (same with Ocular Spell), and the Archmage's Arcane Reach permanently costs a 7th level slot. Or, as you're already looking at, Arcane Archer, which has its own nasty opportunity costs.

Whether this is a good or a bad thing is debatable, but with the existing rules, it's rather difficult to add range to touch spells, so if the class you have in mind is based around that, you'll need to be careful of the consequences. (For a one-time-use in a home game, it's likely to be fine unless you also have a T1 caster dipping into your Duskbow class, but nonetheless.)

[MHCD]

You might find these threads relevant:
Homebrew Duskblade Variants (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?41518-Duskblade-Variants-Updated-4-22)
Homebrew Duskblade Prc: Duskbow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?92893-Duskbow-duskblade-PrC-arcane-archer-fix-(PEACH))
Short discussion on a ranged duskblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?259001-Ranged-Duskblade)

I think it's a great idea. Channeling magical abilities through ranged weapon attacks is one character ability area that's oddly less developed in 3.5 than many other cool fantasy tropes. What you suggested sounds pretty good, and if I were to suggest one thing, it would be this: work out the details roughly, then try playtesting it with a group as soon as possible. I've seen I don't know how many homebrews, proposed variants, and theory discussions regarding balance over the years, and far fewer accounts from anyone who actually played one and reported whether or not it was balanced and fun.

[astrerouge]

thank you for the quick input.

The point you make Zaq, that I need to be careful is exactly the reason why i am asking for help but also why I chose the duskblade chassis.
The class is limited to 5th level spells, even if it has some higher one that are reduced for him.
So i thought that it could be a mean to introduce such a mechanic at a low level as well as at higher level and restricting it to a base class makes it so it couldnt be used as a dip that would empower fullcaster even more.

And I fully agree with you MHCD, it is really an underdevelopped tropes in dnd 3.5, which is a shame.
I would really like to playtest this once i have adjusted the spelllist but i dont even have a game right now :/

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think it'd be fine. I've wondered about a ranged duskblade as well. Could be interesting. I think as long as the full attack arcane channeling is limited to once per foe like it is by RAW, doing it at range isn't too strong. The spell list and whether or not you can channel melee touch spells with a bow or not is what matters. If you lose the charge if you miss, as w/ ranged touch spells, that's a serious hindrance already. And pounce is dirt cheap, so being able to full attack all the time isn't like it's *that* big of a deal. Archery is worse than melee in 3E for a reason...its many issues supersede the benefit of being able to full attack all the time.

[Mordaedil]

Reading this question I immediately thought "aha, an arcane archer!" and I made myself incredibly sad.

[Sian]

If you are willing to swap to things counting as thrown weapons instead of bows/crossbows, then a Bloodstorm Blade 2 might be able to get to your point, via making their ranged attacks count as Melee for the purpose of, well, everything, which includes for an example Channeling spells

[Deox]

I recall seeing a solid Duskblade / Arcane Archer build a while back. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit:

Found the build, copying here (credit to Carnivore over at BG):


Attributes(32 point buy):
24 Str (14+4 Inherent(arm) +6 Item)
34 Dex (16 +5 levels +5 Inherent +2 Racial +6 Item)
18 Con (14 +6 Item -2 racial)
24 Int (16 +2 Racial +6 Item)
14 Wis (8 +6 Item)
12 Cha (8 +6 Item-2 racial)



Feats:

Combat Casting(Duskblade bonus)
1st lvl: Weapon Finnesse
3rd lvl: Weapon Focus(longbow)
6th lvl: Point blank Shot
9th lvl: Precise Shot
12th lvl: Rapid Shot
15th lvl: Woodland Archer
18th lvl: Skewering Foe(Champions of Ruin)

BAB +20
20th Caster level
spells: 6/8/7/3

Melee Attack bonus= BAB+20 +12 Dex+ 5 Enhancement +1 Haste= +38
Ranged Attack bonus= BAB+20 +12 Dex+2 Competence +5 Enhancement+1 Haste-2 Rapid shot= +38

Full Attack:
Melee: +38/+38/+33/+28/+25+special: if she misses on any Attack, add +2 to the next attack
Ranged: +38/+38/+38/+33/+28/+23 +special: if she misses on the any attack, add +6 attack to next attacks

Ranged Special: each attack splits... giving this attack sequence:
:+38/+38/+38/+38/+38/+38/+33/+33/+28/+28/+23/+23

Damage:
Melee=Rapier +1d6(3.5) +5 Enhancement(GMW cast by party member) +7 Str+1d6(3.5) vampiric+1 point Con damage+ Special(Spell channeled)= ave 14 +1 point Con damage each hit , if all hit = 70 damage + 5 Con/ Round
Spells Channeled
can channel extended Chilling Touch to give 40d6 damage+ 40 Str damage(Fort negates DC 18)

Can channel Vampiric Touch to give 10d6 damage and gain Temp hp

Ranged= Composite Longbow Arrow+1d8+5 Enhancement +7 Str+ 1 Competence = average 17 Damage each arrow..... if all hit = 204 damage/ Round ......maybe not a record, but more than adequate for most any situation.... this applies to ANY opponent...and every arrow after the first Hit gains 1d6 damage(Skewering attack)so average damage could be 237/rd

can Imbue Arrow with Doom Scarabs to add 10d6 Damage(No Save, No SR)

Equipment
99400gp +1 Accurate Splitting Force Elvencraft Composite(+7 Str) Longbow
103600gp +1 Accurate Vampiric Wounding Eager Dwarvencraft Starmetal Rapier
22400 gp Celestial Armor

40000gp Paralyzing Arm Graft(+4 Inherent to Str)
137000gp +5 Inherent to Attributes
25000gp Greater bracers of Archery(+2 Competence Att, +1 Damage)
200000gp +6 Belt of Magnificense
21000gp Mask of Insightful detection
3500gp Lense of detection
20,000 gp Ring of Invisibility
2000gp Ring of the Darkhidden
2000gp Handy haversack
3600gp 2x Efficient Quiver
12000gp Boots of Speed
10000gp 2xGlove of Storing
6000gp 2x Rod of Extend

36036gp

Intelligence-based Spontaneous Arcane Spells(PH2 p24)
0th Level
Acid Splash(PH p196) – Orb deals 1d3 damage.
Disrupt Undead(PH p223) – Deals 1d6 damage to one undead.


1st Level

Chill Touch(PH p209) – 1 touch per level deals 1d6 damage and possibly 1 Strength damage.
Jump(PH p246) – Subject gains bonus on Jump checks.
Obscuring Mist(PH p258) – Fog surrounds you.
Resist Energy(PH p246) – Ignores the first 10 (or more) points of damage per attack from a specified energy type.
True Strike(PH p296) – Add +20 insight bonus to your next attack roll.

2nd Level

Dimension Hop(PH2 p110) – Teleport subject short distance.
Melf’s Acid Arrow(PH p253) – Ranged touch attack; 2d4 acid damage for 1 round + 1 round per 3 levels (7 rounds max).
See Invisibility(PH p275) – Reveals invisible creatures or objects.
Touch of Idiocy(PH p294) – Subject takes 1d6 Intelligence, Wisdom & Charisma damage.

3rd Level

Doom Scarabs(PH2 p110) – Scarab swarm deals 1d6 per 2 levels, gives you temporary hit points.
Regroup(PH2 p122) – Teleports nearby allies to your side.
Vampiric Touch(PH p298) – Touch deals 1d6 per 2 caster levels; caster gains damage as hit points.

why is this Arcane archer/ Duskblade so great ...... she can switch from ranged to Melee as a free action(gloves of storing) ..... and do great damage in either Combat mode.... see above(237/rd Ranged, 70+5 Con/rd+ Spell channeled)

She gets +20 BAB and 20th lvl Caster all the time, without feats(practiced caster) or items(Ioun Stones) .

this build is very self sufficient and can help any party in any environment